[Hendricks266]

define COLA 51
define SIXPAK 52

Not for lack of trying.

[Fox]

TerminX, on 21 June 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

Keep in mind that even major engine features like slopes were only added 5 months before version 1.0 of the shareware came out, necessarily dictating that levels like The Abyss--one of the ones where the player being shrunk plays an important part--did not exist until that point. The expander was mentioned in interviews prior to that, however. Since the expander existed before some of the levels which made use of the shrinker as a gameplay element I don't think there's any correlation between the shrinker's use in that way and at what point it was implemented as a weapon.

I guess that explains a lot. The parts where slopes are used in Hollywood Holocaust aren't very important, and easily a last second addition. For example, the whole cinema could (and should) be sloped, instead there are some stairs in the entrance that end in a slope on the opposite direction.

[leilei]

Hendricks266, on 21 June 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

define COLA 51
define SIXPAK 52

Not for lack of trying.

Also in 1.00 shareware USER.CON

// Duke Health Sounds
definesound DUKE_OPENING_SODA   blank.voc          0   0   2   0   0

0.99's game.con plays that sound in its definition for COLA. Also there's a different "DRINKING.VOC" in 0.99 which may or may not have been used for the soda (but is used for drinking toilet water)

0.99 GAME.CON has a commented line about a tongue for the turret which was removed in 1.00

actor ORGANTIC TURRETSTRENGTH
 ...
//    ifrnd 8 spawn TONGUE
enda

Also while messing around, sloped areas in maps converted down to version 5 for lameduke seem to have a strange voxel-ish effect that makes them appear like some sort of really tall voxel 'grass'. E1L1's rooftop for example. Was Ken trying to make slopes out of voxels at one point?

[Fox]

I suppose it could easily have used the Steroids drinking sound.

[Jimmy]

I reckon the 'tongue' would be the little metal pedestal the turret sits on.

[leilei]

Or maybe the turret was THE organic turret and it licks around while idling at random just for added bloodthirsty predatory organicness.

I've also tried _zoo.map in Lameduke just to see what works and matches. Note that I merged in the 0.99/1.3d art files (for curiosity's sake on what tiles were repurposed for different roles)

[MrFlibble]

Jimmy, on 21 June 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

It's probably just attached to his shoulder.

Yes, I've thought about that too. In fact, taking into account that the game makes references to Predator in the form of the Trooper in the first place, could the shoulder-mounted (if it is indeed shoulder-mounted) thing that sort of resembles the Trooper weapon (the shot here with the crouching Trooper is what made me think of this possible similarity) be indeed another reference of this kind?

(I know it's just plain guessing, but anyway.)

[NY00123]

Comrade Major, on 21 June 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Reactors

TerminX, on 21 June 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

waste barrels, reactors, breakable containers with items in them, "atomic" health, jetpack (sorta...)

- How have I missed the atomic health?
- Good point about the reactors, now that I think about it...
- Waste barrels: Ah, these static things from Duke Nukem/Nukum I seem to be relevant.
- I've been a bit unsure, regarding the breakable containers with the items. I guess they're just more "realistic" in Duke Nukem 3D.

[Micky C]

leilei, on 21 June 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

Also while messing around, sloped areas in maps converted down to version 5 for lameduke seem to have a strange voxel-ish effect that makes them appear like some sort of really tall voxel 'grass'. E1L1's rooftop for example. Was Ken trying to make slopes out of voxels at one point?

I doubt it, Ken didn't start putting voxels into build until after Duke 3D. Sector based slopes would be more flexible as well IMO. Also, even if you had the voxels, getting proper clipping for the player's movement along slopes would have to be implemented as well. As far as I'm aware, before eduke32's clipshapes came along, all 3D sprites did their blocking according to a spherical shape.

Anyway, could you show a picture of this?

[leilei]

It has a linear voxel-like appearance coming out of the floor. It'll crash if you get too close to the edge.

I also noticed music fading out and restarting as I traversed this area.

EDIT: apparently it's been part of Build since early 1994 and it is called "Groudraw" and it relied on heightmaps.

A convmap4/5/6/7 later on that world one, and in the latest Build test game... we see a slope!

Groudraws were retired for slopes.

				Sector fields used for slopes:
					The useless groudraw fields, ceilingheinum and floorheinum,
					are now being used as the slope value.  They are treated
					as signed shorts, where 0 is slope 0, of course.  To enable
					slope mode, you must also set bit 1 of the ceilingstat or
					floorstat bits.

Looks nice on floors but I only saw it working with floors.

Maybe Ken could shed some light on this groudraw stuff. I didn't see any use of it in any games prior to Duke3D since ... well, it is indeed crashy:

			  G = Make the floor of the given sector have a Groudraw
					(floor with height mapping).  I do not recommend using this
					attribute very extensively yet. (See the H key for selecting
					the height map)

It makes me wonder...... where could Duke Nukem 3D have used groudraw floors? Obviously not going to be places with it as the entire floor, as groudraw is slow as hell.

[Mikko Pekkola]

Those scans are a very good find lots of interesting stuff in them (skybox, HUD, flamethrower etc.)

[Micky C]

I'm still a bit confused about what this groudraw is or how it works. How do heightmaps work in build? This sounds like interesting stuff.

[Fox]

Micky C, on 22 June 2013 - 12:14 AM, said:

As far as I'm aware, before eduke32's clipshapes came along, all 3D sprites did their blocking according to a spherical shape.

No, sprites are not just square in Build, but the clipboxes are aligned 90º regardless of the angle of the sprite.

[NNC]

 E1L2+.rar (28.54K)
Number of downloads: 953

Just a little "could have been" version of E1L2 with all those removed good things including hidden starting location. The Redrum reference somehow doesn't appear along with the drunk joke, that viewscreen doesn't let two areas to show... and pls don't blame me for the lack of texture 346. It stinks.

[LAW]

I remember some odd screenies from three domestic magazines: Top Secret, Secret Service and Gambler. But I would have to re-buy them from collectors.

[DavoX]

Are these scans new? :

http://forums.duke4....743#entry162743

[TerminX]

Nah, they were all actually posted a few weeks ago.

[MrFlibble]

leilei, on 22 June 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

It has a linear voxel-like appearance coming out of the floor. It'll crash if you get too close to the edge.

I also noticed music fading out and restarting as I traversed this area.

EDIT: apparently it's been part of Build since early 1994 and it is called "Groudraw" and it relied on heightmaps.

A convmap4/5/6/7 later on that world one, and in the latest Build test game... we see a slope!

Groudraws were retired for slopes.

				Sector fields used for slopes:
					The useless groudraw fields, ceilingheinum and floorheinum,
					are now being used as the slope value.  They are treated
					as signed shorts, where 0 is slope 0, of course.  To enable
					slope mode, you must also set bit 1 of the ceilingstat or
					floorstat bits.

Looks nice on floors but I only saw it working with floors.

Yes, these things definitely look voxel-y, and they are very nice indeed

leilei, on 22 June 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

It makes me wonder...... where could Duke Nukem 3D have used groudraw floors? Obviously not going to be places with it as the entire floor, as groudraw is slow as hell.

Hmm, what about the fully 3D bridge in E1L01? I have no idea what it is made of, but it seems to have a different look compared to the "true 3D" objects in Dark Forces for example.

[Jimmy]

The bridge is just built out of flat one sided sprites.

[MrFlibble]

On the topic of preview screenshots, the archived copy of the Next Generation Magazine website has some shots for the preview of Redneck Rampage. Since I have only played the demo of the game, I can't tell how much those differ from the full game:

Screenshot 1
Screenshot 3
Screenshot 4
Screenshot 5
Screenshot 6
Screenshot 7
Screenshot 8

[Lunick]

I can only think of the scattergun looking different there.

[Mikko Pekkola]

MrFlibble, on 23 June 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

On the topic of preview screenshots, the archived copy of the Next Generation Magazine website has some shots for the preview of Redneck Rampage. Since I have only played the demo of the game, I can't tell how much those differ from the full game:

Screenshot 1
Screenshot 3
Screenshot 4
Screenshot 5
Screenshot 6
Screenshot 7
Screenshot 8

Good find I've managed to check those shots out and they're really good

[TerminX]

I heard back from my contact regarding the flashlight looking thing... and he says he doesn't quite remember what it was, because it was only in the game for a short period of time. That's understandable, given how long ago it was. When I mentioned the possible connection to what became the nightvision goggles he did say that sounded familiar.

I sent him a list of a bunch of additional questions and told him to take his time answering them because I know it was a long time ago and he's very busy. Here's hoping we get some cool tidbits of information in a couple of weeks.

Maybe I should forward the same list of questions on to Ken... I know he's got some kind of crazy memory (he can apparently draw a US map with accurate borders for all 50 states from memory).

[Fox]

Could you ask if there was one point at which you was supposed to rescue the babes like in Duke Nukem 64? Because the map design looks like so (i.e. the secret in E1L1 has one, etc).

[TerminX]

Absolutely, that's a good one.

[Fantinaikos]

I doubt it is really possible, but... he also possesses an old personal archive with some unfinished/unused BETA stuff?

[TerminX]

Nope. People should quit asking that.

[Minigunner]

Fantinaikos, on 26 June 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

I doubt it is really possible, but... he also possesses an old personal archive with some unfinished/unused BETA stuff?

TerminX, on 26 June 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

Nope. People should quit asking that.

Yeah it doesn't matter if anyone at 3DRealms has the material or not. As long as there are legal issues concerning the Duke franchise, they cannot release it (even then, I doubt they would anyways for personal reasons).

[MrFlibble]

Fox, on 26 June 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Could you ask if there was one point at which you was supposed to rescue the babes like in Duke Nukem 64? Because the map design looks like so (i.e. the secret in E1L1 has one, etc).

By the way, I've always wondered, have the captured babes as a game been in any way inspired by Halloween Harry?

And on a more general notes, have other titles published by Apogee serve as sources of ideas for Duke3D? There's no doubt about the in-house developed Rise of the Triad, but what about the aforementioned Halloween Harry, Bio Menace and Blake Stone?

Halloween Harry has the rescuable damsels-in-distress who are covered in green slime, a jetpack and a flamethrower.



Blake Stone has force fields, ceiling mounted turrets, self-destruct hover drones, and a "sort of" teleporting enemy. Also, the security guards in blue uniforms are shown to have been called "rent-a-cop"s on the pre-release screenshots.

Minigunner, on 26 June 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

As long as there are legal issues concerning the Duke franchise, they cannot release it (even then, I doubt they would anyways for personal reasons).

Actually, I can hardly imagine what those "legal reasons" are - unless this is somehow related to recent licensing issues that have to do with Gearbox, of which I have only a vague notion. Otherwise there is absolutely no reason not to make pre-release stuff available (except if it is a full pre-release build of the game that more or less equals the commercial version, of course), if all of that beta material is licensed properly. After all, they did release LameDuke, didn't they?

[Minigunner]

They released LameDuke as a 1-year-anniversary gift to the fans (it was also the closest build they had to one year before Duke3D's release). Also, you do know that Joe has shut down beta-recreation projects that have been posted on the 3DR forums before, right?