[dnskill]

ck3D, on 18 July 2023 - 01:00 AM, said:

I feel like he's really just talking about all the various trains in and around the space maps there. Technically speaking, the released game is full of vehicles, it's not even a stretch.

Yeah, that makes sense.

[ck3D]

For the lack of a better place where to post this:

[ck3D]

Mindblowing Feb 1996 screenshot of Raw Meat TerminX just shared on Discord, from back when it was meant to be a DM map:



Start used to have two twin consoles that would play the 'lunar attack forces defeated' and 'Duke Nukem must die' alien voicelines.

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

For anyone interested, I found the exact dates Sewer, Sweeney, Cigam, and Chuckles were released to the public. At least Sewer and Sweeney were originally Dukeworld exclusives.

Sewer.map: March 12th, 1998
Sweeney.map: March 15th, 1998
Cigam and Chuckles: December 24th, 1998, as part of a Christmas special Dukeworld was running

There's no way to directly link to the news posts for them, so you'll have to go to the links I provided and search for the dates given for each map to see the news announcements for them.

[Fox]

Most (yes, the majority of them) of early city maps had parking lots, it's a shame they scrapped them, since they are so simple but help with the immersion.

[eisnerguy1]

Player Lin, on 07 February 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

OK, I don't know if someone still had interest about the "updated" version of Lof7P... I've found a copy of that thing(of course, it come from a shovelware disc with shitload of full version games, you know...), and it runs fine on my new system...

This version had 2 new features added, some map fixes and something I don't know and...NO, THIS VERSION STILL HARD AS FU*K...

Warning : Warez in spoiler...check for your own risk.

Spoiler

http://sdrv.ms/1fFfwHm

Yeah, I just use the same directory which I uploaded the MARS 3D shit.
I uploaded the first release(1994/09/26) and the updated (1994/11/01) one, just for some reasons...

0. This version only updated 4 files, it looks like the patch was came with 2 EXE (PATCH75.EXE and PATCHL1A.EXE) and 1 BAT(PATCH.BAT)...
The batch file will delete A, M, T - the 3 L?ART000.DAT files, then run the PATCH75.EXE to create the patched ones, and then run PATCHL1A.EXE to patch L1ART000.DAT...

(Sadly, it looks like patch L1ART000.DAT will changed the timestamp so its time of last change doesn't really the actual date, more like when it was made for the shovelware...)

Other files didn't changed at all...you can check yourself.

1. Oh, now we have the crosshair, thank god...



Well, it helps but still, the game has no autoaim so......

2. A fucking Automap, well, it looks so shitty... and more like the BUILD editor but missing status messages, and it doesn't draw the map if you're moving when automap activated, you have close then re-open it...



Oh, you can use Kp-Enter to activate or deactivate it.

Also, you can open Main Menu in automap, but it will cause display glitch...



It looks like the in-game texts still draw when automap activated...

3. Your screen will go dark and more if your health goes very low, which is very annoying...get killed so often when I'm low of health and can't even see shit...(It should be exist on original version I guess)




4. For some reasons in this version, when I mess around in Setup.exe, I found SB, SB Pro, SB 16 and Adlib setting for Music are doesn't works on my end, give me FM chip ERROR when run the game, but the Sound are fine, I used MIDI for Music and it works...whatever...

Well, it looks like I totally sucked at this shitty game... I use a cheating program to locked the goddamn health value(if you want to know what's the max health...it's 160, and sometimes it only give 100 when you respawn...) to complete levels...

Might anyone have the Legend of Seven Paladins patch still or the Shovelware ISO the patch came from?

[NY00123]

NY00123, on 08 July 2023 - 02:11 PM, said:

The following animation demonstrates behaviors that may greatly depend on internals of how a program runs, if not the environment.
I reproduced this in a 2019-era map of mine. It's probably not surprising that I didn't observe this earlier, given that it's apparently most visible starting from an early 2022 build of EDuke32.

...

This was also reproduced in NetDuke32 v1.2.1 while trying an old mod, DOOM Death Match Pack v2.3a, with the software renderer:

[ck3D]

Video of Duke Nukem 3D receiving the best 1996 PC game (all genres) award by a French magazine in 1996, a (very) few seconds of beta footage at the very end:

[Morpheus Kitami]

Not sure if this is the right topic for it, but I didn't notice any "random Duke references" thread, so here it goes.

While randomly looking through some albums, I found this strange track in an obscure German metal band called Reactor, a song that was written entirely as a love letter to Duke Nukem 3D, consisting of basically nothing but references to level titles and what not. It's impressive how well they managed to link them together.

[ck3D]

For the last few weeks on the Duke4 Discord I've been emitting and fueling the crackpot theory that maybe for a (possibly very) short while Santa Monica was the basic direction for the theme of episode 3 of Duke 3D (just like episode 1 starts in downtown L.A.), at first as a joke just extrapolating from how Flood Zone used to be called Santa Monica Pier, since it's relatively common knowledge that the levels we did get really are a mash-up of scrapped/Dukematch locations and so abstract and thus not supposedly coherent in theming. But I've kept conducting quick bits of research on the occasion in the context of working on my Shrapnel City remake, looking up real life locations that would be comparable to various areas around the levels and really have been keeping running into positive surprises and small traces that can't help but keep pseudo-confirming the idea to me, it's been a funny ride. List of findings would be too long (and mostly anecdotal or theoritical) to recap but this recent one hit especially hard: the whole of the episode 3 beige building texture set at least appears to come straight from Santa Monica's art déco-styled Clock Tower Building:



https://en.wikipedia...ca,_California)

[ck3D]

It's probably known to some but wasn't to me until I caught a post on the dukenukem Reddit by user Phobos_Anomaly today, but this is the original inspiration behind barmusic.voc:



And the vibe of the RLD bar (obviously, contains NSFW):

[ck3D]

https://en.wikipedia...i/L.A._Takedown it's 2024 and I can't believe I'm still putting two and two together when it comes to some indirect references like this.

[ck3D]

This pertains to Pascal Rouaud's user map, Roch 4. I just so happened to share the info somewhere and thought I'd copy paste it here for reference.

It's relatively known to most real fans (I believe the authoring template mentions it too), but the ending of that map is based on the fictional Château de Moulinsart which is the main recurring location in the bande dessinée series, The Adventures of Tintin: https://en.wikipedia...tures_of_Tintin





That comprises the general design but also some of the texturing choices that may feel odd at first, e.g.. the carpet as lawn which I'm convinced is trying to imitate Hergé's notorious plain color-based style.

The fictional château also dictates a lot of the interior designs, so if you grew up with the series like most 80's/90's kids did, it literally feels like playing inside the canonical location in every room you visit, which I guess probably gets completely lost as soon as you export the map overseas and the reference loses its remarkability:



Tintin's château also is based on a real life French one, Château de Cheverny which just so happens to be a few miles away from me, it just removes both side wings in order to make for the fictional design Pascal recreated 1:1 (fun fact, it also rinses everything it can out of the Tintin relationship, with omnipresent Tintin merch):



The car (a Citroën 15/6) also is from the series and can be seen in the classic L'Affaire Tournesol/The Calculus Affair:

[Aleks]

ck3D, on 16 February 2024 - 01:45 PM, said:

That comprises the general design but also some of the texturing choices that may feel odd at first, e.g.. the carpet as lawn which I'm convinced is trying to imitate Hergé's notorious plain color-based style.

I really dunno where does the "carpet" thing comes from regarding that green texture, this is really just Gaussian noise on a green rectangle which was even used as grass in regular Duke (E1L2, but would also fit if used in E3L9 as a similar texture is used for the stadium pitch), so I wouldn't go as far as putting that on the inspiration to the comic art style, but rather as simply the most accurate texture choice available (didn't you also use this texture for hedges in some BR maps BTW?).

[ck3D]

In bande dessinée Hergé's trademark style was solid lines and plain colors, he's renowned for popularizing it (and commonly credited for inventing it) so I'm quite certain the nod is intended, when you look at the texturing and layout inside the mansion too (and are familiar with the series, author and their legacy) it's pretty obvious Pascal went for a stylistic recreation to me (and must have been guided by how it's usually described or defined); I also think he had some culture when it comes to art/pop art (there are traces of that around some of the levels), so I don't think it's a coincidence, that entire part is basically a Build interpretation of the singularities Hergé's touch is known for, and once you realize it's next level amazing. Probably explains why so many of Pascal's most hardcore fans are French too, I don't think it's nationalism (at least not always; would be stupid), they just perceive more subtle touches around the levels than most foreigners can without the references. The Château de Moulinsart has to be his biggest nod, too. I don't think the arch in Roch 7 ever was supposed to be the Parisian Arc De Triomphe for instance, looks closer to Bordeaux architecture and a couple of the levels are marked as being set in the city of Nantes, but I could never really find any matches for the locations on Google Maps (I've only tried a few times, but I've tried researching things from swimming pools that would be close to suspended highways, to bits of little wall sculpture detail like one can see near the doctor's house in Roch 3).

Side note but the Citroën actually plays a rather major role in the episode I posted, too; had completely forgotten it actually is this prominent in the story.

I've never used the carpet texture for grassy elements, I tend to hate that in general, closest thing I've done was the stadium texture as hedges in Duke Du Quatrain because it had the best patterns for my set-ups (the lines, to simulate relief on top, when the hedge sectors themselves are flat in order to save walls). It's true Pascal has used the plain green in different environments before but I think starting from Roch 4 onwards he started using it more exceptionally, I kind of suspect that was to make sure from now on the Château would remain special as the apex of the trend. To be honest it is pretty hard to think of a cooler justification for the choice.

People call it a carpet texture because it's right next to the red, blue and brown equivalents that are the same tile in different tones and more obviously represent carpet. Base maps using the green carpet as grass I always assumed were placeholder situations that were never addressed.

[Forge]

tile 803 is grass and/or hedge - it's with the other dirt/rock textures
tile 1219 is carpet - it's with the other carpet textures

pascal would have used 1219 if it suited his artistic vision of keeping the ambiance pastel

[ck3D]

Aren't the tiles the exact same and so completely interchangeable (assuming the first one isn't the obvious, thicker grass)? I never studied them closely enough to tell. Maybe Pascal didn't either. Texture placement in the tileset only hints at so much too, since there's no trace of when each was inserted where, why and how rushingly. Tileset was cleaned up pre release but it's still full of leftovers, possible duplicates, things in places that make zero sense, etc.

In order to match Hergé's style it doesn't really matter the intended purpose of the tiles anyway really. The element to focus on is going for plain color (or as close as possible) instead of more detailed, richer patterns. I feel like Pascal aimed for something that would visually protrude as as clear cut as Hergé's strong lines and use of plain tones, and once you've recognized and seen it the place more obviously shows it's a bit of a departure from every location Pascal had designed thus far as pseudo-realistic (but since the attention to detail is just as meticulous, in the context of Build it comes out as coherent because presented on the exact same plane of fidelity as the rest). And whether or not he meant to do it, that's what he achieved.

Funnily enough the château itself (outdoors) is different because there I feel like it's obvious he used the real life counterpart to guide the texturing. Or maybe it's just the roof that's making me say that because in terms of actual detail, it's actually a bit of a mix.

[Forge]

ck3D, on 19 February 2024 - 09:41 AM, said:

Aren't the tiles the exact same and so completely interchangeable?

no, not really
803 has more shades of green and looks 'rougher', whereas 1812 is pretty flat and even.
803 would be closer to natural grass, 1812 is more like carpet or stadium astroturf (which is basically a carpet of fake grass)

the out of bounds area in e1l2 uses 1812 - i think they just tossed something green there and called it good, since the player really can't get back there or get a good look.
If you need a good example of 803 as grass, off the top of my head I would suggest the 1st couple D.C. maps. There are probably a few in the original episodes, but I can't think of one right off-hand. Maybe e3l1.

I don't think 803 would have fit pascal's intended purpose; even if it is the 'grass' texture.

[Aleks]

Yeah my point was that a lot of textures are versatile enough to represent more than one thing and the "green carpet" always surprised me in particular (well the "carpet" texture names in general, but the red and blue are a bit more justified since they are used like that in the game). I know the mansion in Roch 4 is a nod to Tin Tin, but don't think using the Gaussian brown and green textures for the courtyard is exactly trying to mimick the plain colours, but rather just using the most suitable textures for the look (especially considering that there's also some curb texture used on the walls between the green and brown parts, which isn't used in the flat original). Agree with Forge here that 803 is more wild/uneven grass, while 1219 can be both carpet but also neatly trimmed grass you would expect next to a mansion that probably comes with it's own gardener (or English vs French park kinda grass).

IIRC Pascal didn't hesitate to use "plain" textures when needed by super-stretching them, something that Taivo appreciated and took a few steps further from him (also the plain blue sky in Roch maps).

[High Treason]

Still looks like crap.

You can tell Pascal was an architect, through and through. Thought only about 'the vision', the modernity and the wankery, but never once stopped to think of the people who had to walk around in the fucking thing he'd come up with. Sheer refined incompetence but with a thin veneer of grandeur. Still to this day one of the least enjoyable maps I've played and would be higher on the shit list if its successor wasn't several times more insufferable.
Liberties can definitely be taken with where a texture goes and in general, they should be, but sometimes it just doesn't work. This carpet still isn't anywhere near as awful as the broken glass floors that show up in Pascal's works repeatedly.

[ck3D]

Am guilty of regularly Dogvilling the broken glass as floor into my own maps because I find there is no texture I can think of in the entire tileset that actually evokes gravel, or pebbles (which are lame in real life too), although I typically try and reserve it to rooftops. The beige sand/grainy marble stone with no lines is a better texture but as such from me that one gets the special treatment of going to the sparse places where it will look the best, textures that are actually great in general I like to use wisely in order to draw particular attention with them, almost feels respectful to reserve them, they used to be all I'd use everywhere but with time I've found I like an equilibrium. Whereas broken glass can be ugly gravel for all I care since to me it translates. I don't think Pascal invented that choice either, pretty certain I remember user maps from 1996 that did it first.

Maybe it's unclear what I find so intriguing about the mansion. I'm not trying to say Pascal tried to replicate the feel or look of the Tintin place, or even consciously to Hergé's style specifically (not trying to pretend I ever was in the guy's head). But the product ends up respecting the definition of ligne claire https://en.wikipedia...ki/Ligne_claire (at least as much as the base Duke 3D texture set reasonably will allow), or at least falling under it more than everything else around the level and most things Pascal would otherwise build. Whether intended or a consequence doesn't really matter. But it's interesting to point out because ligne claire almost resembles an architect's approach to depictional art/line work, it's a rather technical (suspended) illustration of shapes and motion all things considered and as such it's probably sensible around some Roch sceneries that never were ever meant to be Tintin or Hergé nods to a degree, might be a general mark of the style (which in turns solidifies the coherence of the château).

I had never realized the differences between both 'carpets' but maybe in subtle patterns of the grain without ever thinking much about it, that's crazy. Wonder if more discernable outside of the software renderer at my usual low res.

[Forge]

High Treason, on 19 February 2024 - 02:45 PM, said:

Still looks like crap.

i've misused and abused just about every wall, floor, and ceiling texture in the game, so i'm not the one to be throwing stones at anybody

[Aleks]

ck3D, on 19 February 2024 - 05:05 PM, said:

Maybe it's unclear what I find so intriguing about the mansion. I'm not trying to say Pascal tried to replicate the feel or look of the Tintin place, or even consciously to Hergé's style specifically (not trying to pretend I ever was in the guy's head). But the product ends up respecting the definition of ligne claire https://en.wikipedia...ki/Ligne_claire (at least as much as the base Duke 3D texture set reasonably will allow), or at least falling under it more than everything else around the level and most things Pascal would otherwise build. Whether intended or a consequence doesn't really matter. But it's interesting to point out because ligne claire almost resembles an architect's approach to depictional art/line work, it's a rather technical (suspended) illustration of shapes and motion all things considered and as such it's probably sensible around some Roch sceneries that never were ever meant to be Tintin or Hergé nods to a degree, might be a general mark of the style (which in turns solidifies the coherence of the château).

I'd say ligne claire is a style that describes a lot of Roch maps, a style that despite all the details and intricacies/unconservative use of textures is still very clean and with clear visual breaks. The plain blue sky emphasising the contours of every shape is probably the biggest clue to it. I think this is especially strong in Roch 6 with the overpass and the horizontal signage on the road beneath it. Also just checked Roch 8 MSDN page and the 2nd screen is coincidentally stupidly similar to the picture in the Wiki article you posted about ligne claire: https://msdn.duke4.net/hotroch8.php

Speaking of weird uses of textures, ever since HRP I started to question how I perceived a lot of the textures myself. I think one of the more interesting is #243 and #392 - I've always seen this as wooden beams, but then realised it could as well be rusty corrugated metal sheet (actually same with #396, although here I'm now more convinced it's a corrugated metal sheet).

[Doom64hunter]

ck3D, on 05 February 2024 - 02:03 PM, said:

It's probably known to some but wasn't to me until I caught a post on the dukenukem Reddit by user Phobos_Anomaly today, but this is the original inspiration behind barmusic.voc:


And the vibe of the RLD bar (obviously, contains NSFW):

Nope, it's based on the Mortal Kombat movie theme. TerminX talked about it on the Discord before, but in the betas, barmusic.voc was just a segment ripped directly from the Mortal Kombat theme.

[ck3D]

Doom64hunter, on 20 February 2024 - 09:42 AM, said:

Nope, it's based on the Mortal Kombat movie theme. TerminX talked about it on the Discord before, but in the betas, barmusic.voc was just a segment ripped directly from the Mortal Kombat theme.

Had no idea, that's pretty cool but I don't see how that's mutually exclusive with the Bad Lieutnant scene/track when the time came to replace the placeholder. But I can hear the vibes now, funny how I had never caught that. I guess everyone has their own blatant misses, the last time I casually brought up how the Shop N Bag muzak was Grabbag (which I thought everyone de facto recognized) in the chat of one of Dan's streams, I saw two or three respected modders have an 'oh, shit' moment, I was never prepared. Did Lee Jackson make barmusic, it's possible he might read this, probably chuckle and confirm/infirm if he did.

[Aleks]

ck3D, on 20 February 2024 - 11:18 AM, said:

Did Lee Jackson make barmusic, it's possible he might read this, probably chuckle and confirm/infirm if he did.

Yeah, it was Lee that did both BARMUSIC and 2BWILD.

[Hendricks266]

SONGS.TXT said:

Songs with an (LJ) after the title were written by Lee Jackson.



OTHER (DIGITIZED) MUSIC
-----------------------
BONUS.VOC - Huh Huh...You Said Bonus (LJ)
BARMUSIC.VOC - Mortail Wombat (LJ)
2BWILD.VOC - ...Or Not to be Wild (LJ)
WHISTLE.VOC - excerpt from Grabbag (LJ)
GRABBAG.VOC - Grabbag (reprise) (LJ)
MUZAK028.VOC - Grabbag (Muzak Version) (LJ)
MUZAKDIE.VOC - Grabbag (Muzak Death) (LJ)

The scene from Bad Lieutenant could have been aesthetic inspiration, or similar example of a broader trend. "Mortail Wombat" and the direct MK theme rip in the betas leaves no doubt about what the direct inspiration was.

[High Treason]

I like the blatant Korg O1R noises in the Acid song anyway, most distinct is the industrial clang. I'm convinced there's not a single song made between 1991 and 1999 that doesn't feature that box. Even games had it, like NFS3 and Sonic Adventure. Fairly sure there was a Duke game with it in, probably one of the console games, but can't remember which one and now it's bugging me.

Misc knowledge so I don't go too far off-topic: Teleporters can be locked, which is documented in a few places. Water teleporters can also be locked, but only going down, which I discovered when I wanted water to rise up and not be submersible until after the rising. Quite surprised I haven't seen this done more often.

While probably not useful, GENERICPOLE is subject to multiplayer only palette rules like switches are, as is MUSICANDSFX. The last tile of the rotating red beacon light is tied to the destructible cameras flag, as it used to be CAMERAPOLE.

[ck3D]

I just started watching this, in general I'm quite fascinated by the amount of typos in Duke or Build code ('devistator', 'convair belt' etc.) that sometimes make it onto the sprite art (e.g.. 'John McClain' instead of 'John McClane' in the episode 4 tile, although I like that one because of how it allows for an easy transformation into 'John McCain'). But I guess the add-ons had their own respective shares of typos too, the one at 1:34 got me good (pretty sure I'm reading 'force shield genaretor'):

[MYHOUSE.MAP]

The pistol ammo pickup is a Beretta 92 magazine.

 0040.png (1.4K)
Number of downloads: 227

 duke mag.jpg (143.78K)
Number of downloads: 255