Hey everybody.
I just finished my first map. It was long time coming. Started working on it in 2018 and dropped it. Ever since I kept working on it here and there and now it's done I guess.
The quality between sectors varies but I think it's a decent map. I'd like to know your opinion about it.
It's the last map of a "would be" episode.
Duke shut down the alien mothership and escaped after which they both crashlanded on Earth.
Apparently the enemy army survived the impact and are retaliating in full force. It's up to Duke to get rid of the alien scum and save the day once and for all.
Map length: 20-30min
Difficulty: Medium/Hard (according to me)
Showdown.rar (4.8MB)
Number of downloads: 119
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[RELEASE] Showdown "My first singleplayer map."
#1 Posted 22 July 2024 - 06:54 AM
This post has been edited by Kennardion: 22 July 2024 - 07:05 AM
#2 Posted 22 July 2024 - 07:02 AM
most [Release] threads have an actual release. An included file, a link to a file, a link to another hosting site with the file.
but hey, you do you. No kink shaming.
but hey, you do you. No kink shaming.
#4 Posted 22 July 2024 - 09:18 AM
Nice job for a first map. Took me nearly 40 minutes. It has some nice gameplay and a surprisingly twisting layout. Ammo is a bit tight (though that might be because I somehow managed to sequence-break the map and skip the Red key door - couldn't reproduce it on a second playthrough) and some of the enemy placement is quite inconvenient, but I liked overall.
I'd like to report a issue with the map, though: at the last area, the stairwells that lead to the Sentry Battlelords have every step tagged as a elevator. Imagine my surprise as I go upstairs only to find myself getting intimate with a Battlelord, and unable to go back because I keep activating the steps as opposed to the one part that was meant to be a elevator.
Also, in one room (the one where a blood puddle is always facing the player), the Liztroop was swiming in the floor (even if it wasn't tagged as 'liquid')
I'd like to report a issue with the map, though: at the last area, the stairwells that lead to the Sentry Battlelords have every step tagged as a elevator. Imagine my surprise as I go upstairs only to find myself getting intimate with a Battlelord, and unable to go back because I keep activating the steps as opposed to the one part that was meant to be a elevator.
Also, in one room (the one where a blood puddle is always facing the player), the Liztroop was swiming in the floor (even if it wasn't tagged as 'liquid')
#5 Posted 22 July 2024 - 12:30 PM
Oh wow, I never noticed the elevator stairs . The swimming guy was a pain, I have no idea what's up with him, nothing I did fixed that behaviour, I deleted him now and placed a new sprite there, it seems to be ok now.
Was the wall broken at the red door? I had that wall randomly open all the time some time ago, but It wasn't a problem for a long while now. I guess it is, again.
I tried to apply a fix to that, hope it will work as intended from now on.
The scarce ammo was intentional, I'm not sure it's the bast approach but it gives some challange to the map.
Here's a slightly updated version:
Was the wall broken at the red door? I had that wall randomly open all the time some time ago, but It wasn't a problem for a long while now. I guess it is, again.
I tried to apply a fix to that, hope it will work as intended from now on.
The scarce ammo was intentional, I'm not sure it's the bast approach but it gives some challange to the map.
Here's a slightly updated version:
Attached File(s)
-
Showdown.rar (151.19K)
Number of downloads: 80
#6 Posted 22 July 2024 - 03:27 PM
I'm looking forward to trying this one out, congrats on release, screenshots look pretty cool.
Re: your half-submerged enemy it's possible you pressed C on its sprite and made it center-aligned by accident.
Re: your half-submerged enemy it's possible you pressed C on its sprite and made it center-aligned by accident.
#7 Posted 23 July 2024 - 06:36 AM
Oh, ok. I never heard about that thing, I gotta look into it, kinda sounds important.
Hope you're having fun with the map.
Hope you're having fun with the map.
#10 Posted 28 July 2024 - 11:36 AM
Pretty solid for a first release. Some places have great attention to detail and lighting; others are sloppy, however. The cave locations (including that crash site the map starts from) were generally the best looking, although the outdoor section was way too bright for that dark sky setting. The first toilet room was the worst in every aspect. What betrays a novice work are things like inconsistent scaling, limited repertoire of textures, some texture alignment problems, use of wrong elevator tags or wrong sprites (are those back-facing tanks supposed to be actual tanks?). I'm not a fan of that "maze" full of loud ass doors either, feels too repetitive, although it could be made a nice addition if it was better rationalized. I also found some chairs that can be broken twice. The map is full of combat, but also packed with small inconsistencies like this.
Some tips that could potentially help improve your next map:
Some tips that could potentially help improve your next map:
- When working on details and overall layout, size everything in a consistent way, using Duke's height and Mapster grid as a reference
- Pay attention to sector texture alignment; use relative or absolute texturing where appropriate. Getting everything right may be time-consuming, but the overall design improvement is totally worth it.
- Check for any sprites that get accidentally duplicated or picked wrongly. Playtest the map with max variety of actions (take every possible route, break everything that can be broken etc.)
- Get creative with texture choices! Repetitive texturing makes a map both boring and hard to navigate. Duke3D Atomic has plenty of textures to choose from; some can be used in various novel and imaginative ways (same for sounds).
- Finally, think conceptually and have a rationale behind every object, every location in a map, in order to make everything work well as a whole. And have fun!
This post has been edited by Jan Satcitananda: 28 July 2024 - 12:07 PM
#11 Posted 15 August 2024 - 04:55 AM
Wow, this level was surprisingly fun to play! It does have a very honest and genuine vibe similar to the early maps from the 1990s, but obviously with better design (although, as Lezing mentioned, very uneven across the level). The map took me around an hour to finish, I've also ran across the same weird thing as Dr. Panico with the access to the mines opening early on - but I still didn't have enough supplies to fully explore it and had to go back to the underground facility and red key part. Still, always having many different ways to go and possibilities felt very adventurous and made the map a lot less linear than it would normally be, which is nice. My favourite parts, design-wise, were the caves at the beginning (that tree in the water there is really good!) and the mines, which are not something you see everyday in a Duke map and despite being rather simple in design, traversing them was fun. I also really liked how the map kept teasing areas which you will visit later. The combat was also very solid (another 1996 trope are the randomly paletted monsters), especially the heavy battles working well - the battlelord near the ship towards the end with a lot of minions was particularly good, and of course the whole slaughter left for the finale inside the ship was a lot of fun. Ck3d mentioned somewhere the fenced part with the electricity fuses (?) and new beasts, where you are given a lot of tripmines - it would be indeed a clever battle to use the tripmines there, but at this point I had enough regular ammo to just mow through these guys. Despite the pretty convoluted and chaotic design, the different parts of the map very naturally connect to one another. Two of the secret places seemed inaccessible - the one at the beginning, small crack in a rock above a waterfall of slime protected by a commander would always kill me when trying to enter it and the other one was at the water works, where you would need to apparently go under a very low passage - I tried to get a new beast there to shrink me, but even that didn't get me through. I also couldn't reach the 2nd button in the "boss that didn't make the cut" secret, it's too bad because the whole setup looked nicely (BTW, instead of using "drop floor" effect, use SE31 by default which is the much more convenient and generally less buggy alternative). Anyway, congratulations for the release, for a first map it's surely a very good one!
Rating: 83/100
Rating: 83/100
#12 Posted 22 August 2024 - 02:00 PM
#13 Posted 24 August 2024 - 05:41 AM
Played the map last night and had some fun with it. Took about 30 minutes and I only found one secret (freezethrower).
My first observation was you seem to have a knack for use of space, in this map even in sometimes minimalistic settings you have a lot of verticality and dare I say sometimes too much to handle because there are a lot of accessible cliffs with no rewards on top and then possible fall damage, which some might find misleading or see as missed opportunities (myself I didn't mind it so much and I mostly appreciated being able to jump around on top of stuff unrestricted; but maybe you'd want to refine some of your direction there). I did find a few funny secret messages that helped make up for the occasional letdown upon reaching somewhere tricky or difficult.
Said use of space is interesting because almost in opposition to the linear nature of the level, especially after the first zone onwards (after you've escaped the first area and fought the first commander). I did notice a lot of cool loops in some sections (albeit the earliest one around the base felt experimental more so than optimized; I'm guessing this was the 'older' part of the map you had made), but that was punctuation during what otherwise felt like running through a gigantic and varied hallway with lots of height variations and fun platforming. In that sense, those (prominent) parts felt a lot like playing Jorge Brea's Quest https://msdn.duke4.net/hotquest.php but on steroids with emphasis on action more so than on strange visuals. Normally that could be a negative but I'm a sucker for high-speed action and here as a way to literally drive the player from point A to B with no possible distraction but the occasional tantalizing cliff it worked really well and I had a lot of fun. It felt like I was following a giant LOCATOR track of my own and then that got shaken up once I reached the mines and my forward momentum suddenly got redirected into a maze, it then became a rollercoaster ride through the loops around the caves and that genuinely was pretty cool.
I also very much enjoyed the emphasis on explodable sprites being established as a common mechanic, and the tripmine set-up Aleks also mentioned. Gameplay balance i.e.. health/ammo to monster ratio I thought was good and sometimes smart with original set-ups like that one, but my favorite battle was the one against what felt like three dozens of assault captains in the final boss room.
Execution was hit or miss, not just visual but also technical. I'm guessing especially the old level parts are guilty but some are literally broken, being built out of sprites you can clip through (sometimes being used as glass or even walls, with imprecise alignment and so Duke can slip between a lot of solids), I spotted sector bugs (gate out of the first zone), softlocks (that pit in the mine doesn't actually kill you) and I'm certain have missed or could have chosen to miss entire sections of the level from skipping them altogether with the right jumping and/or crouching - the latter not being something I dislike per se, but you want that under control regardless of how loose. Some parts also have a lot of misaligned or absurdly stretched textures, not to mention sprite clipping (especially omnipresent in classic). And then every once in a while comes one specific area or scene that is not just really clean but pretty magnificent, so I wasn't sure why the level of care was inconsistent throughout as polishing the old parts to be on a comparable level shouldn't have been difficult. It's probably because you're still learning a lot about the editor and I actually appreciated your focus on the dynamic effects (I tried jumping across that one canyon to make the point to myself that I could clip through those sprites, got stuck on the tiny lip of the edge and so caught the touchplate, then the whole cave unexpectedly collapsed with me hanging off to the side and precipitated Duke to his death - that was funny).
One pigcop fell down a TROR hole into slime current, got squished inside a tiny sector there and then its innards stretched all the way up to the sky.
The loud door maze and the pigcop tank 'introduction' using an idle sprite plus pigcop next to it I thought were neat.
Somehow it gives off a Red 1 vibe to me (the original, not the remake). I'd definitely play a sequel to this, it was a good time.
My first observation was you seem to have a knack for use of space, in this map even in sometimes minimalistic settings you have a lot of verticality and dare I say sometimes too much to handle because there are a lot of accessible cliffs with no rewards on top and then possible fall damage, which some might find misleading or see as missed opportunities (myself I didn't mind it so much and I mostly appreciated being able to jump around on top of stuff unrestricted; but maybe you'd want to refine some of your direction there). I did find a few funny secret messages that helped make up for the occasional letdown upon reaching somewhere tricky or difficult.
Said use of space is interesting because almost in opposition to the linear nature of the level, especially after the first zone onwards (after you've escaped the first area and fought the first commander). I did notice a lot of cool loops in some sections (albeit the earliest one around the base felt experimental more so than optimized; I'm guessing this was the 'older' part of the map you had made), but that was punctuation during what otherwise felt like running through a gigantic and varied hallway with lots of height variations and fun platforming. In that sense, those (prominent) parts felt a lot like playing Jorge Brea's Quest https://msdn.duke4.net/hotquest.php but on steroids with emphasis on action more so than on strange visuals. Normally that could be a negative but I'm a sucker for high-speed action and here as a way to literally drive the player from point A to B with no possible distraction but the occasional tantalizing cliff it worked really well and I had a lot of fun. It felt like I was following a giant LOCATOR track of my own and then that got shaken up once I reached the mines and my forward momentum suddenly got redirected into a maze, it then became a rollercoaster ride through the loops around the caves and that genuinely was pretty cool.
I also very much enjoyed the emphasis on explodable sprites being established as a common mechanic, and the tripmine set-up Aleks also mentioned. Gameplay balance i.e.. health/ammo to monster ratio I thought was good and sometimes smart with original set-ups like that one, but my favorite battle was the one against what felt like three dozens of assault captains in the final boss room.
Execution was hit or miss, not just visual but also technical. I'm guessing especially the old level parts are guilty but some are literally broken, being built out of sprites you can clip through (sometimes being used as glass or even walls, with imprecise alignment and so Duke can slip between a lot of solids), I spotted sector bugs (gate out of the first zone), softlocks (that pit in the mine doesn't actually kill you) and I'm certain have missed or could have chosen to miss entire sections of the level from skipping them altogether with the right jumping and/or crouching - the latter not being something I dislike per se, but you want that under control regardless of how loose. Some parts also have a lot of misaligned or absurdly stretched textures, not to mention sprite clipping (especially omnipresent in classic). And then every once in a while comes one specific area or scene that is not just really clean but pretty magnificent, so I wasn't sure why the level of care was inconsistent throughout as polishing the old parts to be on a comparable level shouldn't have been difficult. It's probably because you're still learning a lot about the editor and I actually appreciated your focus on the dynamic effects (I tried jumping across that one canyon to make the point to myself that I could clip through those sprites, got stuck on the tiny lip of the edge and so caught the touchplate, then the whole cave unexpectedly collapsed with me hanging off to the side and precipitated Duke to his death - that was funny).
One pigcop fell down a TROR hole into slime current, got squished inside a tiny sector there and then its innards stretched all the way up to the sky.
The loud door maze and the pigcop tank 'introduction' using an idle sprite plus pigcop next to it I thought were neat.
Somehow it gives off a Red 1 vibe to me (the original, not the remake). I'd definitely play a sequel to this, it was a good time.
This post has been edited by ck3D: 24 August 2024 - 08:03 AM
#14 Posted 24 August 2024 - 11:57 AM
I really liked the flow of this map, granted, I did break the flow by leaping over to the mine section that you are supposed to get into AFTER the red keycard. It looked so damaged that it felt like I was encouraged to go that way. I actually don't mind that the map overall wasn't always recognizable, as in, it didn't always make sense that this building is over here or this one is there, it felt more geared towards the gameplay, with buildings being carved out as needed with a general link to give it a loose logic. The choice of design (someone mentioned the bathroom) did feel like an odd way to go about it, but overall I felt you had a ton of variety and I did love the verticality and way things looped back together.
As some have mentioned, the secrets are a little broken. The second one in the water, I did use the shrinker from another non-secret to try and get to it, but its just a second or two too far to clear. The texture align issues are a bit distracting, if that was cleaned up it would bump up the map a few notches. Love that "cut content" area, real fun to find. I did notice a bunch of areas (mainly water) weren't tagged correctly, so they acted as if they were solid. Again, minor nit-picks as the overall direction was great.
All in all, this was a super impressive FIRST map to me. It really was a blast to play and I WANTED to explore everywhere I could.
As some have mentioned, the secrets are a little broken. The second one in the water, I did use the shrinker from another non-secret to try and get to it, but its just a second or two too far to clear. The texture align issues are a bit distracting, if that was cleaned up it would bump up the map a few notches. Love that "cut content" area, real fun to find. I did notice a bunch of areas (mainly water) weren't tagged correctly, so they acted as if they were solid. Again, minor nit-picks as the overall direction was great.
All in all, this was a super impressive FIRST map to me. It really was a blast to play and I WANTED to explore everywhere I could.
#15 Posted 24 August 2024 - 01:31 PM
ck3D, on 24 August 2024 - 05:41 AM, said:
Said use of space is interesting because almost in opposition to the linear nature of the level, especially after the first zone onwards (after you've escaped the first area and fought the first commander). I did notice a lot of cool loops in some sections (albeit the earliest one around the base felt experimental more so than optimized; I'm guessing this was the 'older' part of the map you had made), but that was punctuation during what otherwise felt like running through a gigantic and varied hallway with lots of height variations and fun platforming. In that sense, those (prominent) parts felt a lot like playing Jorge Brea's Quest https://msdn.duke4.net/hotquest.php but on steroids with emphasis on action more so than on strange visuals. Normally that could be a negative but I'm a sucker for high-speed action and here as a way to literally drive the player from point A to B with no possible distraction but the occasional tantalizing cliff it worked really well and I had a lot of fun. It felt like I was following a giant LOCATOR track of my own and then that got shaken up once I reached the mines and my forward momentum suddenly got redirected into a maze, it then became a rollercoaster ride through the loops around the caves and that genuinely was pretty cool.
It's funny (and something I'd consider a huge strength of the level) that we pretty much had totally different experiences with this level due to the possibility of "breaking" into the mines section earlier (no idea how that is triggered really) - during my playthrough, it felt very "open" and due to having two ways presented early on, kinda confusing but in a very pleasant way, so "linear" would be the last word I'd use to describe it (also there were some other interconnections later on through vents). Quest I remember was actually just a glorified corridor, albeit with cool visuals, but I'd say a lot of older maps also did have a similar feeling of being very linear but in a more "chaotic" way, one I remember like that was called 2THEMAX, very long 1996 map that would take you through many different areas kinda not being sure what theme to settle in, but positively shining from the general mediocrity of the time. On the other hand, this level reminded me more of these "wandering" maps which are a bit like festival cinema, without a clear beginning or end, just kinda happening. It's a very positive thing though!
#16 Posted 24 August 2024 - 04:13 PM
Aleks, on 24 August 2024 - 01:31 PM, said:
It's funny (and something I'd consider a huge strength of the level) that we pretty much had totally different experiences with this level due to the possibility of "breaking" into the mines section earlier (no idea how that is triggered really) - during my playthrough, it felt very "open" and due to having two ways presented early on, kinda confusing but in a very pleasant way, so "linear" would be the last word I'd use to describe it (also there were some other interconnections later on through vents). Quest I remember was actually just a glorified corridor, albeit with cool visuals, but I'd say a lot of older maps also did have a similar feeling of being very linear but in a more "chaotic" way, one I remember like that was called 2THEMAX, very long 1996 map that would take you through many different areas kinda not being sure what theme to settle in, but positively shining from the general mediocrity of the time. On the other hand, this level reminded me more of these "wandering" maps which are a bit like festival cinema, without a clear beginning or end, just kinda happening. It's a very positive thing though!
Yeah, I happened to play the map in a very direct manner, running ahead all guns blazing, pressing walls and jumping stuff. It's only after I took the time to explore the first base that I realized I could have just kept going any time. After a while I stopped even looking for any 'intended' way and just went for 'it', whatever 'it' was. I did exactly what Nacho did in the mines leaping over the sprite fences to reach the freezethower (because that's what the design language in situation just calls for), didn't exactly question where I was and it's after I continued and realized I had looped back to an earlier point I figured I probably had skipped stuff - again - but that was pretty inspiring to be encouraged by such design to just propel ahead, and then be lured into an unexpected weird network of loops. I wouldn't call this map open-ended though, it's a lot of successive locations with varied themes but at least to me felt completely linear in the same way as maps such as Nightshade Army or Fear Of The Dark (which isn't bad and just a style). There's clear sequencing in the shape of the map that you traverse, in fact a lot of the narrow canyons (in spite of the endless rocks to jump on) to me felt like they might as well be a 2D platformer level with the occasional dungeon to punctuate, and then every once in a while there is unreachable scenery to simulate more depth (it works and looks pretty cool here, though). But I think that the map considers verticality is a huge plus. I sort of chose to approach the level in a two-dimensional manner, never going back on stuff once I realized everything progression was broken but following the walls (I did play the final battle in full when I probably could have reached the button early, and got all kills wherever I found). When Nacho found the (spoiler) 'OG boss' on stream, which I had missed entirely, I thought it was so fucking cool. Very original first map for sure.
This post has been edited by ck3D: 24 August 2024 - 04:24 PM
#17 Posted 10 September 2024 - 11:45 PM
As it turned out I was using an outdated version on Mapster32 to make this map and it didn't run as intended on newer versions. A lot of people ran into bugs I didn't know about so I decided to download the newest vesion and make some changes to the map. I could replicate some of those bugs with this new version and fix them. I put a little extra in there too for those who still wanna try my map.
Hopefully it's gonna work well now.
FINAL UPDATE:
Showdown_1.3.rar (2.57MB)
Number of downloads: 36
Hopefully it's gonna work well now.
FINAL UPDATE:
Showdown_1.3.rar (2.57MB)
Number of downloads: 36
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