[zykov eddy]

Reaper_Man, on 08 April 2024 - 12:33 PM, said:

Access to this changed to a player member, so now you should set it as:

setp .palette 2

Like using myospal instead of rotatesprite, or gametext instead of screentext, the deprecated methods still technically work, but under the hood they are wrappers for the new methods, and it's recommended not to use older ones.

I only hope that older commands will still be supported, otherwise, older mods will be even more broken.

jkas789, on 08 April 2024 - 10:48 PM, said:

Played this and OMG this is GOOD. Great job mate!

Thank you very much! Did you find the keys?

slacker1, on 09 April 2024 - 06:29 AM, said:

Being there though I noticed:

Spoiler

Is the text at the alter a quote from the movie Jacob's Latter? I love that movie! At first I was trying to figure out why it was so familiar then it clicked.

Spoiler

Yes

Spoiler

There are even more references to that movie in the map.

[Ninety-Six]

Spoiler

Is it safe to assume that all the references (so basically all the notes and plaque text) are those mood-setting red herrings you mentioned?

[zykov eddy]

Ninety-Six, on 10 April 2024 - 05:25 PM, said:

Spoiler

Is it safe to assume that all the references (so basically all the notes and plaque text) are those mood-setting red herrings you mentioned?

Spoiler

Yes, any of the references could be red herrings in a literal plot of the game.

I have to say that, in metaphorical part of the storyline, there are almost no red herrings. So, decoding it would be soooo much easier.

I also have to mention that, to understand this map's storylines, you don't need to know the outside context of the references. They are just for fun, or to enhance the mood. In other words, you don't need to watch any of the movies, videos, games, etc...

[fgsfds]

Can pillarboxes and other overlays like film noise be fixed to fit UW and wider resolutions?

Spoiler

[zykov eddy]

fgsfds, on 11 April 2024 - 04:21 AM, said:

Can pillarboxes and other overlays like film noise be fixed to fit UW and wider resolutions?

Spoiler

duke0000.png

Damn.

I never realised that EDuke32 even supports such crazy wide resolution.

I guess I can try, but my EDuke32 won't let me play in this resolution easily.

[Ninety-Six]

zykov eddy, on 11 April 2024 - 02:08 AM, said:

Spoiler

Yes, any of the references could be red herrings in a literal plot of the game.

I have to say that, in metaphorical part of the storyline, there are almost no red herrings. So, decoding it would be soooo much easier.

I also have to mention that, to understand this map's storylines, you don't need to know the outside context of the references. They are just for fun, or to enhance the mood. In other words, you don't need to watch any of the movies, videos, games, etc...

Spoiler

Going by that then, I think we can categorize everything into their own section and see if we can unravel the metaphors.

There's the theater itself, the way it degrades over time, its eldritch spatial properties that also tie it into E1L2, and that it's one of the only places to have combat.

I'm not sure how much the fake level matters but that's there too, with a fake secret.

There's the first major section with the pool rooms, which contains liminal-ized versions of various rooms across the original game all arranged in a maze, have to find skulls within some of those familiar rooms, while you're being chased by the Alternate Duke (I'm assuming there's some kind of meaning behind the fact that it's a weird Duke in a weird Duke 3D).

There's the second section, Stretched, which maybe could be considered part of the theater, but it has its own secret key and is listed as its own section on the hint paper, so I'm inclined to think it's isolated. It also contains a warped version of E3L1. Regardless this one is the part I think I have the hardest time trying to figure out. Not a whole lot I can see to work with, unless it is indeed as DavoX said and a mapper's memories are part of this too. That's so far the only explanation that makes sense to me.

Third section is Underground. Hardest section, "angstiest" section by eddy's own admission, greyist, grainiest, bleakest... Lots to work with but I haven't been able to draw any conclusions yet.

Fourth is the infamous Voice section. This one has the strongest literal plot of them all, so trying to peel back the layers could be challenging. Or maybe it's as simple as it looks, and it can be seen as a malicious player who plays Duke just to get him into trouble? (or maybe just sucks at the game? Either way the result is Duke suffers a lot of pain)

Then there's the finale area, which can be broken down into its own subsections. Void area, Chaos area, and the end which plays almost like a normal level, and one that is a subtle compilation and remix of E1L1 and E1L2. It's the part that speaks the word "memories" to me the most. It also reminds me of a lot of user maps, which due to the assets present, tend to remix the same level themes as the vanilla game.

Enemies should probably be considered as well. Classic enemies shadow-fied and die in one hit, podgirl spiders, warped geishas, amalgamate enemies, the paralyzing troopers in the Stretched section, and the perpetually-dying Protector Drones. I got nothing for most of these. The only ones I got something with are the geishas and podgirls, which I'm thinking might tie in in some way to the game's quote-unquote "objectionable content?"

Lastly there are the endings. The bad(?)/normal ending which is E1L1 overgrown with foliage (and a part of me notes that it's growing out of things that don't entirely make sense (like the wall) but I'm not sure if I'm looking too deep into the details there or if it's meant to be as plain as it appears and to just work with that), the keymaster ending which is someone getting the registered version of Duke 3D (1.3d I noticed), and then the third ending which might be a joke but I'm honestly not sure.

[zykov eddy]

Ninety-Six, on 11 April 2024 - 09:02 AM, said:

Spoiler

Going by that then, I think we can categorize everything into their own section and see if we can unravel the metaphors.

There's the theater itself, the way it degrades over time, its eldritch spatial properties that also tie it into E1L2, and that it's one of the only places to have combat.

I'm not sure how much the fake level matters but that's there too, with a fake secret.

There's the first major section with the pool rooms, which contains liminal-ized versions of various rooms across the original game all arranged in a maze, have to find skulls within some of those familiar rooms, while you're being chased by the Alternate Duke (I'm assuming there's some kind of meaning behind the fact that it's a weird Duke in a weird Duke 3D).

There's the second section, Stretched, which maybe could be considered part of the theater, but it has its own secret key and is listed as its own section on the hint paper, so I'm inclined to think it's isolated. It also contains a warped version of E3L1. Regardless this one is the part I think I have the hardest time trying to figure out. Not a whole lot I can see to work with, unless it is indeed as DavoX said and a mapper's memories are part of this too. That's so far the only explanation that makes sense to me.

Third section is Underground. Hardest section, "angstiest" section by eddy's own admission, greyist, grainiest, bleakest... Lots to work with but I haven't been able to draw any conclusions yet.

Fourth is the infamous Voice section. This one has the strongest literal plot of them all, so trying to peel back the layers could be challenging. Or maybe it's as simple as it looks, and it can be seen as a malicious player who plays Duke just to get him into trouble? (or maybe just sucks at the game? Either way the result is Duke suffers a lot of pain)

Then there's the finale area, which can be broken down into its own subsections. Void area, Chaos area, and the end which plays almost like a normal level, and one that is a subtle compilation and remix of E1L1 and E1L2. It's the part that speaks the word "memories" to me the most. It also reminds me of a lot of user maps, which due to the assets present, tend to remix the same level themes as the vanilla game.

Enemies should probably be considered as well. Classic enemies shadow-fied and die in one hit, podgirl spiders, warped geishas, amalgamate enemies, the paralyzing troopers in the Stretched section, and the perpetually-dying Protector Drones. I got nothing for most of these. The only ones I got something with are the geishas and podgirls, which I'm thinking might tie in in some way to the game's quote-unquote "objectionable content?"

Lastly there are the endings. The bad(?)/normal ending which is E1L1 overgrown with foliage (and a part of me notes that it's growing out of things that don't entirely make sense (like the wall) but I'm not sure if I'm looking too deep into the details there or if it's meant to be as plain as it appears and to just work with that), the keymaster ending which is someone getting the registered version of Duke 3D (1.3d I noticed), and then the third ending which might be a joke but I'm honestly not sure.

Spoiler

The main metaphor of the map is actually much simpler than that. Once the main metaphor is discovered, players may look into individual pieces to explore the main theme further. Think of these sections as pieces of the puzzle.

[slacker1]

Ninety-Six, on 11 April 2024 - 09:02 AM, said:

Spoiler

Going by that then, I think we can categorize everything into their own section and see if we can unravel the metaphors.

There's the theater itself, the way it degrades over time, its eldritch spatial properties that also tie it into E1L2, and that it's one of the only places to have combat.

I'm not sure how much the fake level matters but that's there too, with a fake secret.

There's the first major section with the pool rooms, which contains liminal-ized versions of various rooms across the original game all arranged in a maze, have to find skulls within some of those familiar rooms, while you're being chased by the Alternate Duke (I'm assuming there's some kind of meaning behind the fact that it's a weird Duke in a weird Duke 3D).

There's the second section, Stretched, which maybe could be considered part of the theater, but it has its own secret key and is listed as its own section on the hint paper, so I'm inclined to think it's isolated. It also contains a warped version of E3L1. Regardless this one is the part I think I have the hardest time trying to figure out. Not a whole lot I can see to work with, unless it is indeed as DavoX said and a mapper's memories are part of this too. That's so far the only explanation that makes sense to me.

Third section is Underground. Hardest section, "angstiest" section by eddy's own admission, greyist, grainiest, bleakest... Lots to work with but I haven't been able to draw any conclusions yet.

Fourth is the infamous Voice section. This one has the strongest literal plot of them all, so trying to peel back the layers could be challenging. Or maybe it's as simple as it looks, and it can be seen as a malicious player who plays Duke just to get him into trouble? (or maybe just sucks at the game? Either way the result is Duke suffers a lot of pain)

Then there's the finale area, which can be broken down into its own subsections. Void area, Chaos area, and the end which plays almost like a normal level, and one that is a subtle compilation and remix of E1L1 and E1L2. It's the part that speaks the word "memories" to me the most. It also reminds me of a lot of user maps, which due to the assets present, tend to remix the same level themes as the vanilla game.

Enemies should probably be considered as well. Classic enemies shadow-fied and die in one hit, podgirl spiders, warped geishas, amalgamate enemies, the paralyzing troopers in the Stretched section, and the perpetually-dying Protector Drones. I got nothing for most of these. The only ones I got something with are the geishas and podgirls, which I'm thinking might tie in in some way to the game's quote-unquote "objectionable content?"

Lastly there are the endings. The bad(?)/normal ending which is E1L1 overgrown with foliage (and a part of me notes that it's growing out of things that don't entirely make sense (like the wall) but I'm not sure if I'm looking too deep into the details there or if it's meant to be as plain as it appears and to just work with that), the keymaster ending which is someone getting the registered version of Duke 3D (1.3d I noticed), and then the third ending which might be a joke but I'm honestly not sure.

I had similar thoughts as well!

Spoiler

Quote

I'm not sure how much the fake level matters but that's there too, with a fake secret.

I think the 'fake level' at the beginning and then in the voice section might just be a representation of an average user map you'd find in the late 90s. The same with the 'mall' like section towards the end. Also the section where the spider girls show up out of their cocoons is definitely a play on those really terrible early user maps that were nonsensical and almost random/broken/unfinished. (Like you find on Duke Assault)

Quote

Fourth is the infamous Voice section. This one has the strongest literal plot of them all, so trying to peel back the layers could be challenging. Or maybe it's as simple as it looks, and it can be seen as a malicious player who plays Duke just to get him into trouble? (or maybe just sucks at the game? Either way the result is Duke suffers a lot of pain)

This is how I took the voice section:

You get there by putting a quarter in the pinball machine to play a game (inside of a game). Sort of like how you're controlling Duke in real life, then Duke is controlling his game version (maybe?). Anyway, I think the voice is you the player. Him telling you to do stuff is like the keyboard telling Duke to move and shoot (like how he tells Duke to break all the glass in the pharmacy for no reason but just to break it like something you do playing levels some times). So the voice is you and you want to go back to your memory of playing Duke. The voice doesn't want to become you until many many many days pass and the start of the 'game' section is now a memory in itself. That's why he 'wants to see your world' and jump into where you are. He (you) are trying to get back into the game/memory. I probably described this like crap but the voice is the physical player and you are Duke in game. Like in movies/shows where they break the 4th wall where the writer talks directly to the cartoon.

Quote

Lastly there are the endings. The bad(?)/normal ending which is E1L1 overgrown with foliage (and a part of me notes that it's growing out of things that don't entirely make sense (like the wall) but I'm not sure if I'm looking too deep into the details there or if it's meant to be as plain as it appears and to just work with that), the keymaster ending which is someone getting the registered version of Duke 3D (1.3d I noticed), and then the third ending which might be a joke but I'm honestly not sure.

I think the 'overgrown' ending is just the overgrown and forgotten world of Duke. As the game collects dust sitting on the shelf and forgotten. Like how an abandon house will get consumed by the environment from neglect. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned how the level ends with Duke going back to the first secret (a memory everyone has) and jumping in like it's a grave. Another analogy to death of Duke (the memory of).

The 3rd ending I think might just a joke one and an easter egg.

The keymaster ending I went into further in my reply to Eddy's message below.

zykov eddy, on 11 April 2024 - 11:30 AM, said:

Spoiler

The main metaphor of the map is actually much simpler than that. Once the main metaphor is discovered, players may look into individual pieces to explore the main theme further. Think of these sections as pieces of the puzzle.

Spoiler

Is it possible that the main metaphor isn't actually cryptic at all and it's literally just an amalgamation of 'memories' of playing Duke over the years compiled together with time blurring the lines of the finer details of some memories?

There is so much Duke death throughout the map. Another thought (or addition to the previous) are that the loved memories of playing Duke are fading/dying (represented by Duke dying or trying not to throughout the map) and no matter how hard you want to go back and relive them, its impossible so you're helpless to witness them slowly fade into the void and disappear forever as time and life move on. That's how the theater keys (keymaster) ending hit me. You finally got to go back to 1996 and relive playing Duke for the first time again. You're a kid again back in your old parent's home and its the mid 90s again. You did it! You're finally back! ...and then just as the game starts the void pulls you away and the memory fades into darkness and no matter what you try to do or fight to get back, there's no way to stop it and you're kicked back into real life when the level ends.

Sort of like the ending text of E1 of Doom:

Quote

Once you beat the big badasses and clean out the moon base you're supposed to win, aren't you? Aren't you? Where's your fat reward and ticket home? What the hell is this? It's not supposed to end this way!

[zykov eddy]

I'm loving the direction the recent interpretations are going.

Attention!

I've updated the download link yet again! For 100th time, I think.

The new download contains fixes for ultra widescreen resolution, and also tweaks the game balance a little bit. Makes frustrating sections less frustrating, and makes the colored number lock puzzle make more sense.

[Ninety-Six]

Spoiler

That's a very solid theory. Under that context, the "angsty" section might reflect the pessimism of a revival of the franchise, in an age where things that do get brought back come back horribly wrong and perverted. Duke is especially vulnerable to this because of the decade long smear campaign against him, not remotely helped by the poor state World Tour was released in/still is in.

[Dr.Panico]

Mikko has finally reviewed this map:

https://msdn.duke4.net/hotmemories.php

[zykov eddy]

Ninety-Six, on 12 April 2024 - 01:59 PM, said:

Spoiler

That's a very solid theory. Under that context, the "angsty" section might reflect the pessimism of a revival of the franchise, in an age where things that do get brought back come back horribly wrong and perverted. Duke is especially vulnerable to this because of the decade long smear campaign against him, not remotely helped by the poor state World Tour was released in/still is in.

What has happened to franchise's reputation hits me right in the heart.

Dr.Panico, on 14 April 2024 - 02:59 AM, said:

Mikko has finally reviewed this map:

https://msdn.duke4.net/hotmemories.php

An open-ended review for an open-ended map. Makes sense. I do agree that the horror element isn't the strongest aspect of the map. The main idea was to confuse/disorient the players, to make them feel uncomfortable. Although, I think people who, like me, are strongly affected by distorted faces, might get spooked by it in places. It depends on a person.

[Mark]

It says to use the latest eduke32 and don't use Polymer. So naturally I loaded up the mod with a 2 year old eduke32, HRP and Polymer. Thats what my map testing project folder is set for. I got a chuckle when I saw that after typing a console command, text pops up saying to turn off polymer. And during the entire map a quote shows at the top of the screen saying turn off polymer. So if you know whats good for you, don't use Polymer. Eddy will track you down.

As far as gameplay I don't have anything to say. I just went into god mode and used giveall just to run around and take a quick look at what all the interest was about. Welcome back Eddy.

[zykov eddy]

Mark, on 17 April 2024 - 04:40 AM, said:

As far as gameplay I don't have anything to say. I just went into god mode and used giveall just to run around and take a quick look at what all the interest was about. Welcome back Eddy.

Hell yeah, that's how I play most maps/mods as well!

Glad to be back

[Ninety-Six]

zykov eddy, on 17 April 2024 - 03:12 AM, said:

What has happened to franchise's reputation hits me right in the heart.

Same, dude. I have an unconditional love for the franchise and character, and seeing his desecration over the years is so unbelievably depressing. It sucks more to be a Duke fan having to hope he doesn't come back just because you know it will not be Duke Nukem behind those shades. Just a skinwalker wearing them.

Spoiler

So how far off are we currently?

[Jan Satcitananda]

zykov eddy, on 17 April 2024 - 03:12 AM, said:

What has happened to franchise's reputation hits me right in the heart.

I have the same feeling (that spans over gaming in general), that something wrong has happened with the industry, and now the actual art and value has moved to fan-made content, not the official releases.

I have a map in the making that is conceptually similar, although done in a different fashion.

Anyway, very talented work, Eddy! I didn't find all of the cinema keys yet, but I like this kind of maps, it's experimental and rather interesting from an artistic standpoint. The Windows crash message is a great example of thinking outside the box and "breaking the fourth wall".

I didn't like that some effects are wasteful regarding disk space, making the map (or the mod that it actually is) larger than the game itself, despite using OGG format and lots of CON scripting. Personally I'd prefer a more minimalistic approach.

[zykov eddy]

Jan Satcitananda, on 21 July 2024 - 10:52 PM, said:

I have the same feeling (that spans over gaming in general), that something wrong has happened with the industry, and now the actual art and value has moved to fan-made content, not the official releases.

I have a map in the making that is conceptually similar, although done in a different fashion.

Anyway, very talented work, Eddy! I didn't find all of the cinema keys yet, but I like this kind of maps, it's experimental and rather interesting from an artistic standpoint. The Windows crash message is a great example of thinking outside the box and "breaking the fourth wall".

Thank you Lezing AKA Jan Satcitananda!
Btw, waiting for your map with similar themes that you've mentioned to me.

Jan Satcitananda, on 21 July 2024 - 10:52 PM, said:

I didn't like that some effects are wasteful regarding disk space, making the map (or the mod that it actually is) larger than the game itself, despite using OGG format and lots of CON scripting. Personally I'd prefer a more minimalistic approach.

Honestly, it's been much, much worse before I compressed the lengthier sound files. They've been really bloated. Engine lagged when loading them up.

[Mere_Duke]

Amazing map! A most unique Duke Nukem 3D experience I've encountered so far.

Spoiler

The part where you find RPG and then a "crash" get you to a distorted E1L1 is just jaw dropping.

I love how you Eddy make every map not just a level but a solid story with multiple interpretations. Great work!

A few notes/bugs/thoughts:
1) Sometimes I felt the environment around me a bit "gigantic". Notably, the doors (as well as other furniture) are bigger than they should be. Why?
2) https://imgur.com/a/ObVDzhM is it a glitch or intentional 'bug"?
3) https://imgur.com/a/26ID9xu a glitch as well?

Spoiler

4) The secret ending is super cool! Though I still dunno how to acquire all keys but the red, thank god a dnclip magic helped me see it.
For me, the "normal" ending is about the protagonist being possessed by the new drug and (along with other possessed humans) killing all non-addicted people, what led to the extinction of humanity. The "secret" ending is "oh, thank god it was all just a dream/bad trip, it's 1996, lets play Duke Nukem 3D!"

5) The holoduke secret didn't count as secret for me.

Spoiler

6) Cocoon Lady adds +2 to the kills counter after death

[zykov eddy]

Thank you very much for the comment! Glad you enjoyed the experience.

Mere_Duke, on 11 November 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

1) Sometimes I felt the environment around me a bit "gigantic". Notably, the doors (as well as other furniture) are bigger than they should be. Why?

I assume you mean the first "fake" part of the map. I had to simplify my mapping style and include such mapping quarks to make it seem like the map is inspired by 90's usermaps. Let me tell you, it was very hard to fight the urge to do lots of spritework and texture tricks.

Mere_Duke, on 11 November 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

2) https://imgur.com/a/ObVDzhM is it a glitch or intentional 'bug"?
3) https://imgur.com/a/26ID9xu a glitch as well?

Both of these are intentional. This whole area is like a glitched out, broken part of the map. Like a file that was corrupted.

Mere_Duke, on 11 November 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

Though I still dunno how to acquire all keys but the red, thank god a dnclip magic helped me see it.

Red key is somewhere after the church area ( the one where you fall into the hole). There's even a place in the first building where you can see it through one of the textures.

Mere_Duke, on 11 November 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

5) The holoduke secret didn't count as secret for me.

Only the areas after the "crash" count as textures. Holoduke secret is purposefully fake.

Mere_Duke, on 11 November 2024 - 07:58 AM, said:

Spoiler

6) Cocoon Lady adds +2 to the kills counter after death

I'm very confused about the way Duke 3D counts kills, especially regarding eggs and slimers. So eventually I just gave up trying to make it work correctly.