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Duke Map/Mod of the Month Club - June 2023  "ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!"

User is offline   ck3D 

#61

FWIW and also the sake of being pedantic, I don't think it's entirely correct to say people didn't know how to copy paste at the time, a lot of user levels as early as 1996 have copy-pasted stuff (albeit usually of the wrong kind, e.g. of locations from the base game maps). Technically one could always copy paste in Build, just most stayed away because the feature used to be more fragile and thus it was very easy to 'corrupt' your map when copy pasting (and then never try copy pasting ever again), but even the definition of 'corruption' there is to be relativized as most of the time we weren't talking actual data corruption but a few basic wall errors most people had no idea what they were and how to fix. What EDuke did was make the function more reliable over time so that it's less unstable, and people understand the engine a lot better these days indeed, but the possibility in itself was always there and some used it early.

Watching bits of Radar's video, as far as E4 is concerned, the Hive is especially catching my eye.

Were Fernando Marquez's FM4X episodes ever MotM? Would be an interesting pick.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 24 June 2023 - 03:06 AM

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#62

Want to start this good competition for my self, but that Unit Blood is for DN3D mod? Since I thought it's just game Blood from 1997.
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User is offline   Quacken 

#63

One Unit Whole Blood is the bundle that was released by Monolith Productions in 1998, which contains the original four episodes of Blood (released in 1997) along with both of its expansion packs, Cryptic Passage and Plasma Pak. This is the name the game is given when you buy it from GOG. Its "equivalent" on Steam is Fresh Supply, the remaster, which also includes everything. When adding everything together, there's six episodes and 53 maps. Part 1 refers to playing through the first three episodes of Blood, and Part 2 would presumably either contain the other three episodes or just Dead Reckoning and Plasma Pak. I'm not sure if Cryptic Passage will be saved for later.
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#64

Seems good since I never finished blood, only first episode.
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User is offline   FistMarine 

#65

Since there were plenty of posts over the weekend, I decided to reply to most of the interesting stuff right now, as well as clarify two mistakes I did on my previous post. Some quotes had to be removed due to hitting the quote limit.

"but there were some funny bits, like when me and the Predator both shrunk each other at the same time. (LOL)."
I just noticed this after making the post but I forgot to add the laughing smiley instead of (LOL) placeholder right here. This is what happens when you rush to post the message after writing it for hours in a separate text file.

"There are also a bunch of new ART, new con changes and other cool things (the main character is also no longer Duke anymore)."
Another thing to clarify here, when I described AOE TC a bit, I didn't mean that the main character not being Duke is a cool thing. I just wanted to mention that the TC features a different character and it's interesting to play a TC once in a while that doesn't feature Duke. Sorry for the confusion.

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You need to get the Protector Drones specifically to shrink the Alien Princesses with their projectiles, as that works somehow. You could see me alluding to this in my E4L5 review, where specifically against the second Princess I was able to cheese it with a Protector Drone accidentally hitting them with their Shrinker attack. But using the Shrinker weapon doesn't work, which makes me think that when coding the Princess BDP forgot to make it immune to the Protector Drone's projectile but made it immune to the Shrinker's projectile. They must be two different projectiles in the game's code and you need to set two different flags, one to make it immune to the Shrinker weapon and another to make it immune to the other Shrinker projectiles (the ones the Protector Drones fire as well as the entity that continuously fires Shrinker projectiles, as seen in Toxic Dump). I don't know anything about Duke 3D's source code but that would be my guess.

Interesting explanation. I had no idea that there were different Shrinker projectiles. I always assumed the same projectile was being used by Duke, Protectors, Predators, Shrink Ray Shooter, etc. Of course the only difference in gameplay would be that you can't shrink yourself with your own projectiles (unless reflected off mirrors) or rather, whoever fired the shrink ray is immune to it by default. Even if this had worked for me, I think I would have died upon trying to step on the tiny queen, as I doubt the "instakill if near the boss" goes away upon shrinking. I will have to test this further to confirm if this alien princess trick works in the DOS version. I'm not surprised if something got changed in the addon version of The Gate and/or EDuke32. Though it kinda explains the fact some attacks/projectiles deal different damage depending on who fired them. E.g. the damage of rockets fired by Duke vs Commanders/Predators vs Bosses. So I'm not surprised if the Shrinker attack may be slightly different too.

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The demo for E4L2 plays regularly instead of the Duke-Burger demo - it seems the other demos aren't replaced as there is no E3L11 or E4L11 in The Gate. It's still the same demo from original game, just the map is swapped for the one that's in the GRP.

I get that. I am now just assuming you didn't install the demos, as I have specified in the opening post, the mod includes THREE new demos and if you don't install them, you get the vanilla Atomic demos running in background, while the last demo is going to be The Gate's E4L2 with the movements from original E4L2: Duke Burger demo, as you mentioned. Because of the fact the demos record the map's filename as well and The Gate's maps are still using the original ExLy structure, so if they had renamed the map filenames and used something like GATE101-GATE407 (like Addon Compilation version does, I guess), then if you didn't install the new demos, the third demo would have been the original Duke Burger demo instead of a desyncing The Gate E4L2 demo! I know that behavior for sure because if you try to play a demo recorded on an user map, it will tell you the map is missing if you tried to play the demo without the map installed. I now also reminded you said you are using the modified/repacked version by ProAsm but I guess that version does not include the demos. :P

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Again, I don't think stepping into slime breaks anything, there's plenty of protozoid slimers around, but I've never had problem with the boss. The only trick really is to overplay him, so he doesn't follow you into one of the teleporters - it would still be possible to pass like that, but just a lot harder I imagine.

Ah, I understand now. Once again I never played the mod before and I only judged from comments I've read about the final boss not working properly sometimes. Now I will know when I get to him in E4L6.

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There ain't a day in the week where I wouldn't vote to play Blood. Splitting up Episode 1, 2 and 3 into their own month was something I didn't actually think about, but it makes sense to me. I actually conveniently enough wrapped up playing Blood Fresh Supply very recently, which marks the first time I've fully beaten every map in the remaster (all 53 retail maps). On Well Done in single segment, but still. If Blood was chosen for next month I'd do a similar thing to what I did for Redneck Rampage, where I'd keep a spoiler'd walkthrough of the map on Extra Crispy with a Pitchfork start and then my review of the map below.

That's pretty cool! Have you done a 100% playthrough as well? I finished ONE UNIT WHOLE BLOOD v1.21 last year in DOSBox on normal difficulty (Lightly Broiled) and there were a couple levels I couldn't get 100%, either due to missing/non-existent enemies or glitched secrets, like one map not registering a secret, a secret not being accessible anymore or a secret that when activated, keeps adding to secrets found, so you can have something like 15/10 secrets found. Weird stuff like that. So I'm hoping there will be a Blood expert in order to explain/help with a true 100% playthrough for some of the levels. I don't have the Fresh Supply remaster and I can't confirm if it fixed weird stuff like that, so I guess I will stick to the original DOS Blood v1.21 but I might bump up the difficulty to Well Done this time, just to torture myself by getting often killed by the cultists. I will not have to write a walkthrough, so I might keep my reviews quite short and post screenshots to compensate.

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Not sure if organtics mess up the killcount somehow, but might be. However, Star Chamber has specifically two troopers placed outside of the level boundaries, for some reason, so you are going to miss 2 kills anyway. Also using the CD thrower awards kills only on some enemies.

I reached the conclusion the organic turrets DON'T add to kills but might count as actual enemies, even though they didn't affect the kills in some past levels. I had no idea about there being two troopers outside of the map in E3L5, so it kinda explans why I had enemies missing, even if the kill counter still seems confusing, though it might be because I got a trooper's corpse below a door and when got squished, it added an extra kill, though I forgot if this happened in this level but I know for sure I got some enemies squished by doors in both E3L5 and E3L6 and my initial thoughts were that this somehow screwed up the enemy count.

Also I forgot to mention in an earlier post and thank you earlier pointing about the possible glitch with the kills involving using CD Thrower. I have actually avoided using the CD Thrower most of the playthrough, so it's sitting mostly unused in the pocket, though there's enough ammo for just about everything anyway, as I end up with full ammo almost always in most levels. Not to mention I have no way to confirm if you will get kills or not in the original DOS executable upon killing enemies with the CD Thrower, due to lack of in-game stats. :P

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The two first troopers in DNA Strand are also shapeshifters like this, but they are easy to kill before they start changing. I didn't notice any shapeshifters in E3L6 though I think and got all the kills in this one.

Ah yes, I have read this being mentioned in the earlier posts but I didn't mention because I didn't see them shapeshifting in my gameplay in E3L5, since as you said, I killed them before doing that, so I had no idea about their existence until later in the episode. My guess is when the troopers start shapeshifting and kill them in other form, then they don't add to kills? I'm 100% sure I killed them already shapeshifted in that rotating room you can see in the first E3L6 screenshot. Okay, I took a look into Mapster as I'm writing this message and I noticed there's two blue troopers and two enforcers in that rotating room. In my screenshot, I see THREE dead Enforcers and one dead Octabrain. That must be the reason why I'm missing two enemies, because I killed them when they already shapeshifted and either I didn't get credited with the kill or when they shapeshifted, it counted as another enemy and only got credited for killing the new enemy!

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The final battle can be really easily cheesed by luring all the bosses into the "floor window" where they will get stuck, then letting the Cycloid help you killing the Queens :D

Interesting. I haven't thought about that. Though I doubt you can cooperate with the monsters, as the Alien Queens will just walk into random directions while spawning Protectors and only the Cycloid will try to "rush" you. I think it's easier to take them down yourself by standing on the high point of the room. You are also given a Jetpack but I didn't find any good use during the battle outside of maybe trying to escape when getting shrunk.

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As for the voting - I wanted to nominate maps/episodes by Steph Lessa for July, there aren't too many, but could be a nice break from the heats outside. Will think on what to vote - Blood is tempting to finally try out, but not sure how much time I will end up having.

Interesting nomination, even if I'm not sure there will be enough maps to cover a month (as in does this nomination have at least 15 maps in total?). I haven't thought about this author before (though I heard about his ICE episode and Jungle Tour series) but I think he would be a great fit for September, so I'm saving this nomination/vote for that month, as in August there's going to be another Build engine game nominated. Not to mention the two TCs nominated earlier will also keep fighting against the Build bros. And don't worry, my time is more limited as of lately as well. I can barely get these reviews done in time, so I wouldn't want to overwhelm everyone with too many maps per month. ;)

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Unfortunately, they are coded as new enemies, so it's pretty much impossible to 100% kills in this map, as no matter however these missiles are destroyed, they won't add new kills.

What? So this is why I was missing 12 enemies in E4L2? Because of those predators shooting homing missiles? Now I'm going to modify my current E4L2 review to mention that.

@ck3D: FM4X series weren't chosen before but I had them in mind since a while ago. I was tempted to nominate them for the next few months or even going as far as nominate them the next April, just in case Blood gets played this summer and I needed a worthy replacement for the official Build Engine month. I would like to hear people's thoughts about this, especially since I may have to split up the pack into two (E1 & E2 played in a month, then E3 & E4 played in another month) if I will nominate FM4X at a later time. The other problem is that some months are busier than others and I had a hard time to decide what to nominate next. Most Build games seem to overlap in some of the months, most notably in March, April, July, August and December. I am trying to think of what could be nominated later this year, as there's other mappers that haven't been covered yet and I'd like the opportunity to nominate lesser known mappers but some of them don't have enough content for a month and I'm trying to see how to combine them to work for a month. And about the copy-pasting thing, I personally never found a bad thing unless it's blatant copy-pasting from the original game's maps, though it can also be lazy if you are directly copy-pasting certain areas from your own map without changing the contents or whatever.

@DukeNukemGold: As Quacken said, it's a compilation released on 15th July 1998 that includes the original game and all expansions into one big package. Unlike other compilations/re-releases of the era, it is actually an exclusive fully patched version of Blood, version 1.21, with Plasma Pak already integrated into main game (Cryptic Passage is available to load separately).

The regular version of Blood can only be patched up to 1.11 (with and without Plasma Pak) from what I could tell from the internet, while OUWB (which is the only version of Blood I have) is the exclusive latest fully patched version (1.21) that was also digitally released on GOG and Steam many years ago. Fresh Supply is the 2019 remaster containing the same content as OUWB but runs in KEX Engine and offers various enhancements. With the recent acquisition of Nightdive by Atari, there are rumors they might go back and patch Fresh Supply again. With this occasion, hopefully they might even add new content in, though I haven't seen anyone suggesting that but something tells me that Death Wish should have been an official addon in Fresh Supply. :D

Which reminds me, there will be plans in the future to nominate Blood mapsets (and even SW maps/mods, etc) for the Map/Mod club but I'd rather keep it mostly Duke focused and have other Build related stuff like once at every couple of months as a small exception. In the next month's case, if Blood (Part 1) wins, only the first three episodes will be played. If Blood (Part 2) gets nominated for August, the rest episodes will be played (this includes Cryptic Passage).

Anyway, here is a review of E4L1-E4L3 because this episode is longer and I think my posts are getting a bit too long sometimes, which can be hard to read at once, so I should stick to about 3-4 maps reviewed per post. I'm saving the second half of E4 (including the secret level), the conclusions and the votes for Friday, so then I can wrap up the topic as well. :)

TAKIN EM DOWN

Wilderness Receiving Facility

Honestly, I was quite impressed by this map, despite having a few points of no return towards the end, although you can return to the main beginning area later, you just can't return from the last few parts of the level. The ammo can be a bit tight at the beginning and I admit I rarely got ammo drops from Enforcers (most of the time not dropping anything or in some cases dropping a Chaingun with 50 ammo instead of the ammo packs that give you 100 ammo now), so I had to rely on Shotgun half of the time. But then the ammo situation improved over the time, so I wasn't running short on shells and bullets.

In other words, this map is very interesting. It has great design, great puzzles and great gameplay. It can be a bit challenging at times but it gives you enough health to make it through the level, if you don't mind backtracking a bit to look for a Large Medkit you may have left behind, so you are well stocked on health most of the time. Armor and Atomic Health pickups are also present (THREE Armors and FOUR Atomic Healths). And you can even find an early armor and atomic health in just the starting area, preparing you for what's going to happen next.

The cranes are also returning and are fully functional, carrying some barrels, as you'd expect. I was waiting for a map having functional cranes in them, as the last E3 map had a non-functional crane.

As I mentioned previously, there are a few points of no return late in the map. The first time when you step on the teleporter AFTER the battles that await in the room you unlock with Red Card late in the map. You are encouraged to grab absolutely EVERYTHING before using that portal.

BTW in the acid at the beginning, there is the Scuba oxygen filling device that you can use as many times as you want. So feel free to explore the areas, you can even find some goodies in the acid in the factory area. As it has been said before, I'd like to see this implemented in some future user maps/mods, especially those that favor underwater exploration.

Anyway, once you teleport, you will be on a satelite dish and get attacked by a couple enemies. After taking them out and inserting the Yellow Card, there's a maze at the end with some of those Blue Troopers that I realized they are the shapeshifting ones, I think one of them turned into an Octabrain but I haven't noticed affecting the kills or anything, as I was able to get all 125 kills in this map. Yes, I know there were a couple slimer eggs that helped inflating the kill count, so it's impossible to tell the exact amount of enemies in a level. Oh yeah and before approaching the exit, be sure to grab the ammo packs you may have left behind, as the gate shuts off behind you!

About the mortar predators at end, I'm pretty sure I've seen one shooting rockets at me at some point, making me believe there was a third one somewhere but after all, there were only two. I'm not surprised if the Predators sometimes use other attacks randomly or something like that. I've noticed this oddity in a few earlier maps as well, like when fighting a Shotgun variant, he was sometimes firing lasers at me. This means they must be very unpredictable at times and choose the weapon randomly or use two different weapons or something. I would have preferred if they were limited to one weapon and had different colors to differentiate them or something.

Here are the TWO secrets that you can find:
1) After dropping down through the hole, you will land into a small control room with an enforcer. Jump through the red monitor to collect a pistol clip and Atomic Health.
2) In the corridor late in map, right before jumping to grab the Red Card and Atomic Health, look for a different wall. Press on it to access a small room containing an Atomic Health and Armor.

Overall, this was an incredible starting map, despite dragging a bit towards the end and taking me about 54 minutes to finish, it was very well balanced and feels like a proper "tough but fair" type of map, therefore a much better starting map than E1L1 ever was. Let's hope the rest of the episode keeps up the quality.
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Into the City

I have mixed feelings about this map. On one hand, it feels like an epic adventure and design wise, it's very interesting and professional looking. On the other hand, this map was very painful, even when you start with 150+ health and 80+ armor from the previous level. Initially, it's not that bad, as you mostly fight troopers and whatnot. But then the Predators show up again and it's a brand new variant, that shoots HOMING ROCKETS at you and also has a shit-ton of health! Yes, they can survive THREE direct hits from your RPG that does on average about 200 dmg per hit (I can't tell if they are immune to explosives or not) but Duke can die from about 3-4 direct hits (that do about 40-50 dmg) at about 120 health and 80 armor. Get out of here with this garbage! :P

Though to be fair, the rockets aren't impossible to avoid and you can even shoot them down but half of the time I was trying my best to kill the predators as quickly as I could. The only working strategy I found was killing only ONE at a time with shotgun/chaingun, without alerting the other one waiting for me, then I had a fairer chance. Because waking up both of them at once from one corner of the map, I felt like I stood no chance against them. I still hate the Predators in this mod, though not all of them are bad but to me some variants feel like they are a bit overpowered and close to the Redneck Rampage enemies in terms of how much health they have and how much damage they can do in return, on top of being able to become invisible and impossible to hit during that time, so you have to wait for them to become visible and then unload shotgun/chaingun on them as much as you can. This strategy seems to only work half of the time, so I hope you are ready to tank some damage.

Okay, after I took them all from each corner, I was out of armor and was constantly running low on health after some heavy firefights with the Enforcers, because not only rooms were filled with them but there were also more spawning after pressing some switches behind the bars, which reminds me I had to look in Mapster to find out you can jump through SOME of the bars to access the locked rooms because I had no idea how to get inside, looking for some hidden switch or trying to blow up the bars, while the solution was to jump through some bars that weren't solid. Oh yeah and the game crashed one time while looking at the automap! Thankfully it only happened once and I suspect it's a rare issue with large maps, as I remembered E2L8 (I think?) from LR&WB did the same thing back then. The map otherwise worked fine.

In case I forgot to mention, I appreciate the fact you are given plenty of health in this map because I can't imagine what this map would have been if some health pickups weren't available in these parts. I even had to backtrack to the beginning of the map to collect those medkits when my health was running very low after surviving certain fights. After these annoying parts to disable the forcefields, then you teleport to space to get the blue card while fighting more enforcers. This is probably one of the highlights of the entire map, especially if you wanted more "space adventures". Too bad it only lasts about one minute.

Afterwards, find the blue card door, kill a surprise enforcer and get a much needed Portable Medkit. No, there isn't any armor until much later in the map. But the health pickups should do for now, at least. I'm thankful for that.

There are some new blue eggs that hatched enforcers and maybe protectors as well, which is an interesting addition. Some of them didn't seem to hatch at all, as they couldn't be kicked to death or destroyed with any weapon. Then after a timed switch and two protectors ambush, comes a goddamn maze. A maze which is long and filled with enemies, mostly protectors, as well as some occasional spawned enforcers and troopers. And death traps, which includes a rather pointless slow moving ceiling to squish you when pressing a switch (nice try), a bunch of trip mines (another nice try) and also a damn annoying seemingly no escape toxic purple lava trap combined with a laser shooter because I wanted that Atomic Health badly but what I didn't realize is that you CAN escape through a nearby fake wall you have to jump to. Yes, I had to find out after 5 painful minutes how to escape because I needed that Atomic Health badly and I was trying to figure out how to grab it without getting locked but then I realized that wall is only visible from the inside.

Luckily, things get much better later on. After finding a secret area containing an ARMOR (finally) and visiting an area to shoot a switch that raised a bridge inside the maze, I was well stocked on health and armor for the rest of the map. It's only then the map started being really fun, with some interesting ambushes in an open ended area, mostly containing standard Duke3d (atomic) monsters. And finally there was a water fountain...that I never needed to use but the atomic health was still much appreciated, as this map had plenty of them. And after that, there are some more ambushes, the FIRST Jetpack you can find, a Mini Battlelord fight and other epic battles. The last parts of the map were definitely great, no complaints here.

Unfortunately, it seems it is another map where you can't get all the kills, as I got 169/181 kills in total, even after I looked up those "copy-pasted" rooms in the same area with the water fountain and found a few more enemies. And only recently, after I was done with the map, I learned that the homing rockets count as enemies, so that explains why. If I only knew this earlier. Thanks for the explanation, Aleks. I will know from now on to just shrink and step on those predators. :P

Oh and I don't know why couldn't the three armor pickups get spread throughout the whole map instead of having them placed late in the map and relatively close to each other. I don't know how pistol starters can deal with limited supplies on a map like this. But even playing continuously was a bit painful.

Here are the FOUR secrets to be found:
1) Inside the maze, go through a dark corridor and then go through the yellow window, until you reach the secret containing Armor and 2x RPG ammo.
2) Inside the maze, at the end of one of the corridors, there is a fake wall you can go through. It contains an Atomic Health and Holoduke.
3) In the large room with the water fountain, check one of those doors. Go behind the compartment with the small medkit and you will find a secret room containing RPG and Steroids. Note that a Pig Cop will spawn nearby.
4) At the end, in the last room with the throne, jump down and go behind the fake wall to collect RPG ammo.

Overall, this map was annoying, confusing and frustrating at times, as well as dragging towards the end, as it initially took me almost an hour in-game time (not counting the many painful deaths/retries) but after backtracking for the last secret, while finding/grabbing more stuff and killing a few more enemies, it felt like at least 75 minutes in total spent on this map. But, I will say that, despite the negatives, I appreciate you can backtrack through the whole map, the design was very interesting at times and it's not really a bad map overall. But I don't find it that great, either, as gameplay was miserable at times and I can't be more than happy to savescum my way through some of these levels, especially with random deaths and the game crashing (the crash happened only once so far). Therefore, I don't agree with either Aleks or Quacken about this map, I just have mixed feelings about it. I hope the next map will be better balanced/designed.
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Secured Pleasures

A somewhat relaxing level, as it is packed with tons of health, armor and ammo pickups (most notably pistol clips/pickups and even a few Shrinker pickups) and not a whole lot of enemies to ruin your day. You really shouldn't have trouble completing this one. Though keep in mind there are plenty of switch puzzles early on and a couple tricky traps later on but still nothing you can't handle.

In fact, the level can even be finished early if you know where the secret exit is! But where is the fun in that? The map needs to be experienced to its fullest. Heck, you can go all the way back (the beginning parts can be revisited with the jetpack collected from prior map, in case you want to get some more ammo pickups) as long as you don't get to the secret exit portal, as only then there is no way back!

Be careful at a Shrinker Predator that shows up at one point inside the caves. I was lucky that I never got hit and instead I managed to shrink him in time before he spammed more projectiles. There is a Mini Overlord (alongside two turrets) that guards the normal exit, which requires to insert the yellow card. After taking him out, go all the way back to collect everything and find the secret exit.

The secret exit is accessible in the lava room (where monsters and supplies will spawn on those walkways) by jumping through a fake wall. Once you step into the portal, you will get teleported on a separate room and land on an atomic health and take fall damage. Interestingly, due to Duke3D's weird armor system, you will NOT lose any armor if you take damage on top of a health pickup. Which means, your health and armor will be intact, assuming you had maximum before entering the portal. So there is no need to activate the jetpack to prevent health loss, since you don't lose anything. ;)

There are FOUR secrets to find:
1) In the room with the cages halfway through the level, you may notice a Portable Medkit. Go behind the nearby wall to find another Portable Medkit and an Atomic Health.
2) Inside the caves, where a Shrinker Predator awaits you, walk through the fire to access a secret room containing Chaingun and RPG.
3) Inside the caves, find and press a switch. It will blow up the walls somewhere nearby. Find the destroyed walls to access the secret containing an Atomic Health, Box of Pipebombs and NVGs.
4) Inside the lava room, jump through a fake wall. There will be a teleporter that leads to the secret exit room! Just take into account there is no way back if you do this, so be sure to grab everything in advance!

Overall, this level was okay. I didn't mind it and it was a nice break after the previous frustrating level.
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I will try to do the remaining maps until Friday and then finally wrap up this month. Then I will also make my vote and announce the winner.

This post has been edited by FistMarine: 26 June 2023 - 05:00 AM

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User is offline   Quacken 

#66

I like to think I'm a Blood expert - I'm a pretty modest person but I keep learning new things about the game that make maps easier, even on EC Pitchfork Start. I played E1M3 and E1M5 today just to help jog my memory on the routing. Both are usually really difficult, but I had an unusually easy time on both maps due to me using the Shotgun's primary fire more often and changing up my routing on E1M5. I'll probably dedicate an entire post solely on gameplay tips, both for Extra Crispy and Well Done.

Also, Blood has a ton of impossible kills in it - any map that has a Gargoyle statue in it which doesn't change into a Gargoyle is one impossible kill for each, for instance. The statues add to the kill count, can be pushed around and I'm pretty sure they even bleed, but can never be killed. More on all this if Blood even gets nominated, though.

This post has been edited by Quacken: 26 June 2023 - 05:17 AM

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User is offline   Aleks 

#67

View PostFistMarine, on 26 June 2023 - 04:55 AM, said:

Interesting nomination, even if I'm not sure there will be enough maps to cover a month (as in does this nomination have at least 15 maps in total?). I haven't thought about this author before (though I heard about his ICE episode and Jungle Tour series) but I think he would be a great fit for September, so I'm saving this nomination/vote for that month, as in August there's going to be another Build engine game nominated. Not to mention the two TCs nominated earlier will also keep fighting against the Build bros. And don't worry, my time is more limited as of lately as well. I can barely get these reviews done in time, so I wouldn't want to overwhelm everyone with too many maps per month. ;)

There're are not that many maps indeed, mostly ICE and Jungle Tour series indeed. Probably would need to be joined with someone else. As for other interesting and perhaps a bit forgotten authors that could be nominated, I'd mention Mike Beaulieu, C3PO, Alan Page, Daniel Aashage, Reginukem and Jason Bredhauer.

As for FMX, I think it could well be nominated for August (not sure if whole thing, but IIRC it's shorter levels, so maybe why not?).

Also, my vote goes for Blood, but not sure if I'll be playing it this month :P

This post has been edited by Aleks: 27 June 2023 - 10:05 AM

2

User is offline   ck3D 

#68

I agree Reginukem would be a good one, always had such an interesting style.
1

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#69

View PostFistMarine, on 26 June 2023 - 04:55 AM, said:

I am trying to think of what could be nominated later this year

amc squad
1

User is offline   FistMarine 

#70

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I like to think I'm a Blood expert - I'm a pretty modest person but I keep learning new things about the game that make maps easier, even on EC Pitchfork Start. I played E1M3 and E1M5 today just to help jog my memory on the routing. Both are usually really difficult, but I had an unusually easy time on both maps due to me using the Shotgun's primary fire more often and changing up my routing on E1M5. I'll probably dedicate an entire post solely on gameplay tips, both for Extra Crispy and Well Done.


Thanks Quacken! About the gargoyle statues, I meant to mention that, as I realized while I was doing my first playthrough they are the cause but I've also had some maps where one enemy may have randomly disappeared from the map, sometimes it happened with tiny enemies (fish, hands, spiders, etc). And I remember reading that pushing gargoyle statues into lava or water may kill them but that never happened to me. I especially remember in a late map in E3/E4 pushing a Gargoyle statue into lava and it didn't get affected at all. I will be sure to talk more about that in the Blood topic. Also I checked out your new topic about Last Reaction review. Great stuff! Looking forward to the next reviews!

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There're are not that many maps indeed, mostly ICE and Jungle Tour series indeed. Probably would need to be joined with someone else. As for other interesting and perhaps a bit forgotten authors that could be nominated, I'd mention Mike Beaulieu, C3PO, Alan Page, Daniel Aashage, Reginukem and Jason Bredhauer.


Interesting nominations. I will have to check them out. A quick comment after looking up each of them (on MSDN and the archived Duke Repository, I can't access Scent 88 since the past month as it says that I don't have permission to access the website):
Mike Beaulieu -> He made three maps: Bobafett, Legends and Legends2. I don't know if I played the maps before but they seem promising.
C3PO -> He made five maps: Leaving L.A., Research Station, Fruit Loops, Holiday Holocaust and Shocking Twist. I definitely played the first four in 2010 or so but not the last one that was released a few years ago and I'm looking forward to revisit these maps after all these years.
Alan Page -> He made three maps: Jailbird 2, Sewage and West Was Won. I remember playing them before in 2010 or so but I don't think I ever got through Sewage because found it too confusing back then. Would like to revisit them someday.
Daniel Aashage -> He made five maps: One To Zero, Near Life Experience, We Store Your Crap!, Streets of Gotham City and The Adventures Of "Poseidon". I only remember playing the last two of them back then and multiple times, especially SOGC, as it's a very nice vanilla city map that I still remember to this day. I would gladly revisit the last two maps and check the other ones for first time.
Reginukem -> He made about nine maps (not fully sure). Not listing them here but I will say that I will definitely nominate him at a later time, as I'm interested in checking out his entire catalogue. I'm trying to think of another author with about 10 or so user maps released, so they can be nominated for a single month.
Jason Bredhauer -> He made a couple of maps for JJ Duke Nukem 3D (most notably the second and third episodes if I remember correctly) and also the failed Duke is 007 TC. The 007 TC maps were later released as standalone and they were pretty good from what I remember.

In the end, I think we can nominate both Reginukem and Stephano Lessa for one of the months. The rest nominations I will keep in mind for another time, as last year I had nominated plenty of authors that only released 3 maps and these can all be combined into one big nomination. I guess the mappers with 5 maps can also be merged separately, most notably with other mappers that had around 5 maps released. I will have to look up for more suggestions when the time comes. I think Kevin Cools' maps were also nominated at one point and he released 10 maps. Could be probably combined with Jason Bredhauer. Or with Reginukem. Would like some suggestions here which of the authors work better combined for one month, as I'm not sure but feel free to PM me to not derail the topic. Either way, all these are good suggestions for future months. Thanks!

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As for FMX, I think it could well be nominated for August (not sure if whole thing, but IIRC it's shorter levels, so maybe why not?).


Well, in August there will already be two Build games fighting and my other nomination with the two TCs is also going to stay for a while, unless it doesn't get chosen for about three months, then it can be replaced by something else. Admittedly, I wanted to nominate another build engine game instead of the TCs but I ended up giving up the choice in last minute. Either way, I don't think FMX will stand a chance this time when up against two other Build games and I would rather save it for another time. As far as I know, each episode is also 11 level long, as unlike L.A. Meltdown, FM1X contains a couple extra maps that are filling up those slots (mostly Dukematch focused but can also be explored in SP mode) and there are even some bonus maps, like an earlier version of the first level. Trust me, you wouldn't want 33 maps (or worse, 44 maps if we nominate the entire thing) in a single month. Some of the maps were pretty lengthy and on average the levels are slightly longer than the original Duke3D levels.

I'm in no way discouraging people from playing it, as I enjoyed FMX series myself a lot but it could be saved for another month and most likely split into two, though still not decided how it will be split: FM1X and FM2X for one month, FM3X and FM4X for another month OR have the first three episodes for one month and leave FM4X to be coupled with other E4 style episodes. Considering that I already had two E4 style episodes in mind for a while, so when the time comes, FMX series will definitely be nominated.

Also just realized I forgot to add the authors to the maps reviewed in the previous post I wrote. Another fail and not helped that just a few nights ago, I had a dream where I just made a short unfinished post in this topic and people were disappointed. :lol:

E4L1 by Aaron Barber
E4L2 by Crista Forest
E4L3 by Nick Parde
E4L4 by Ryan Isenberg
E4L5 by Crista Forest
E4L6 by Matthew Harris
E4L7 by ???

Now, here are the reviews for the rest of the fourth episode and the overall conclusions about THE GATE! Note the post may be quite long! Grab the popcorn and enjoy reading!

The Flagship

The only secret level of the entire TC. This secret level is okay. It is a space themed level that takes place on a space station and feels like a level that could have been part of the third episode.

Gameplay wise, it's quite challenging at times since you will be fighting copious amounts of Predators (of various types) and Protectors later in the level. There are also plenty of hitscanners to ruin your day, such as plenty of pig cops and even two mini Battlelords later in the map. Needless to say, I got my ass kicked quite a bit in this map since halfway through the level. I wish that I haven't found the two armor pickups so late in the map but I appreciate a dropped used armor from a pig cop at some point. Health seemed plentiful as well when I took the time to explore.

There are a couple of highlights in this map. Two rooms are directly copy-pasted from original E1L2 (the room with the pool table) and E1L3 (the underwater part with the submarine), though there are a few changes in there, like the shapeshifting troopers returning in the E1L2 room (I loaded my save once when one of them turned into a pig cop, as I wanted to make sure I get all the kills) and the E1L3 section, while you can't surface in any spot, you can grab the Scuba Gear and you can open the doors to reveal...a mirror.

There are also two projectile shooters in this map that don't seem to serve much purpose. One of them is a shrink ray shooter that may be useful in letting you pass below the trip mine trap but you can already blow them up with the explosives, so not much use here besides making you vulnerable to get stomped by enemies lurking around the corner. Then there is a shooter at the opposite side that shoots enforcer spit attack for some reason, which is really pointless or at least I did not see the point in this and maybe should have also been a shrink ray shooter or whatever, to increase its effectiveness if the author wanted to have a way to temporary stop the player or whatever. I was thinking that maybe there are some holes that you need to access when shrunk but that didn't seem to be the case. And speaking of shrinking, all the possible ways are available to shrink in the same map (mirrors, predators/protectors, shooter). :D

Oh yeah and despite what Quacken said, the predators (unlike protectors) will immediately step on you when you are shrunk and they get nearby. I tried to get away from the Shrinker Predator with the Jetpack but he still managed to step on me while I was flying. Lucky bastard! Well next attempt was my turn to give him the boot! Yes I should have used Shrinker long time ago against the Predators but they are difficult to hit that I feel wasting my ammo sometimes and I also miss the random chance for them to drop extra ammo/weapons when they die.

Anyway, you can backtrack throughout the whole map and I realized the yellow card is optional in that the map can be finished without it but then I eventually found it towards the end, which allows another shortcut to earlier parts of the level. Good thing there was also a crack in the wall that allowed backtracking to the beginning. I would have gone insane if the only possible way to backtrack would have been the yellow card that I didn't get before I teleported. And speaking of teleporters, I hate how you are teleported near a Mini Battlelord, though it seems the Protector's presence in between serves as a meat shield or whatever. If you are lucky, the Protector will shrink the Mini Battlelord for you, which happened after about 5 or so failed attempts because shrinking the Mini Battlelord yourself in vanilla Duke3D is extremely difficult thanks to the forced autoaim.

There are THREE secrets to find:
1) Near the big mirror, there is a control room with a few predators and an atomic health. Look for a switch to open a nearby window. Inside, you can find...nothing! Or maybe a Predator. And a switch that just allows a small shortcut. This sector counts as a secret.
2) Late in the level, there should be a room filled with protector drones and a bridge you have to raise. Inside one of the corners, there is a wall you can go through that contains an atomic health.
3) Late in the level, before you drop down into a room with a Portable Medkit and teleporter, go to the right panel to find Expander ammo.

Unofficial secret: Be sure to check the underwater areas. There is an underwater section that contains various goodies, including an armor pickup and various weapons/ammo. The section taken from Death Row also contains a Scuba Gear, as mentioned above.

Trick: Save and Load the game while in that area taken from Death Row. The game will keep the underwater palette as long as you don't submerge/surface into normal water or load your game on normal surfaces. I did this when backtracking at the end to give the map an unique atmosphere, hence why the last screenshot looks a bit unusual.

Overall, this level is worth checking out, if only for the reason of being the only secret level in the entire TC.
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The Hive

Interesting map overall and mostly on the easy side. The enemies encountered are mostly the typical Duke3d (atomic) aliens and the only Predators in this map are the laser ones, thankfully. So you won't take much damage early on but towards the end there will be some challenging parts that may do some damage to you, as I found myself quickly dropping down to about 60 health after spending nearly whole map with like 170 or so health. Most likely the enemies started being accurate again. But then the map was pretty much over, so I never ran into dangerous scenarios and I had the Medkit ready to use just in case. Then it was just a matter of grabbing everything while backtracking.

The only things you have to watch out for are the various crushers. I was lucky I never got crushed or anything. The only weird things happening are some enforcers that randomly spawned at some points and only noticed them AFTER backtracking through the map, to find the last two secrets and collect everything before leaving. Oh and the two doors at the end should have been unlocked but somehow they didn't unlock. I know they are the two doors you see at beginning and it wouldn't make sense to have them unlock early on because they lead towards the exit but when I looked in Mapster to find if I missed a switch somewhere, it turns out that inserting the cards to disable the forcefields would have unlocked them but also they are given the property of being Star Trek doors, so I don't know why they don't open at all. Not that I'm complaining since you can still go back through the acid tunnel, it just costs a bit of Scuba and Boots. Yes, I'm thankful that backtracking exists. :P

Most secrets are fairly easy to find, as it's the usual blow up the crack type and the rewards are pretty good. So be sure to explore! There are also various optional areas, especially the underwater parts with Octabrains and slimer eggs. Oh and supplies are plentiful, as there's plenty of health around, two armor pickups and lots of ammo. So you really shouldn't have much of a problem doing this level and progression is fairly standard too.

There are SIX secrets to find but unfortunately I am not in the mood of describing them. Most of them are the easy "destroy the crack" type but others require you to find some panels or push some walls. And there is also a secret that requires avoiding a crusher (a switch also exists to disable the crusher).

Overall, this was a nice level that felt relaxing at times, like E4L3 was. I wonder if that's sign that the next map will be much harder?
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Drone Chambers

If you thought the previous level was too easy, now comes a level that will kick you hard in the stomach! As you may have expected, this level is packed with shitloads of Enforcers, Protectors and Predators, the latter of whom are surely going to give you a hard time. Be sure to save often!

Anyway, I'm not going to describe the whole level. Design wise, it's pretty interesting. There are plenty of things you need to pay attention to and the enemy placement can be quite mean at times. Even starting the level with full everything, you will run short on health and armor halfway through. Because Crista is not as generous with armor pickups as other mappers, the only two armor pickups are given late in the map, one of which is available in a secret area. Of course it is a good thing there are armor pickups at all but it wouldn't have hurt to put another armor pickup at some point in the level early on. Because of how much damage you are going to take, the armor from the previous level will disappear pretty quickly.

The health distribution is adequate, it will be enough to keep you alive, as long as you don't mind backtracking for earlier rooms. I certainly did that a few times when I cleared some rooms and my health fell in the 20-40 range. There was usually a Large Medkit somewhere nearby and other times the Portable Medkit came in handy. Though annoying when there were a few rooms that constantly got me low on health even after I used a Medkit and backtracked for health, mostly because of the armor being rare, as Duke is quite fragile with just 100 health and no armor. It's mostly thanks to those fucking Predators with their rapid firing shotguns. Ugh. Yeah, I died plenty of times and was getting a bit annoyed at some points in the map. It does feel frustrating how nearly every time I manage to stun the predators for a few seconds with the Chaingun and they spam shotgun at me until I die.

And yes, most predators are the shitty shotgun ones but there are also laser, RPG and Mortar ones and even one rare variant that is shooting Homing Rockets that you may remember from E4L2, the author's previous contribution. It makes sense after all! Though only one of them thankfully and then after loading my save, I just proceed to use Shrinker on him as soon as spotted, so he won't fuck up the enemy count. But it's okay because the enemy count is already fucked in this map. You can't get all the kills and the only explanation are those Dead Newbeasts (Protectors) that are hanging in those blue chambers. You can gib them with a single kick or rocket or whatever but they won't add to kills. This is something I only noticed in a few user maps we played in past and it took me a while to realize the cause for the missing kills.

I searched in Mapster and found 24 of them, not counting the actual live protectors (normal and hanging). But that still doesn't explain why I was missing 29 kills, especially as I got two protectors' corpses squished with the door, so logically I should have missed 22 enemies. I really don't understand what's with the kill count sometimes. Do some of the predator variants not count as kills? Oh wait a minute! There were a couple Organic Turrets as well in the purple lava room. And all those blue eggs that couldn't be destroyed, though I doubt the non-destroyable eggs affect the kills. Let's see. I counted them in Mapster. 7 Organic Turrets and 24 Dead Hanging Protectors means 31 missed enemies by default. Two protectors that were killed below a door and got squished, each adding an extra kill. This means 29 enemies missed if I killed everyone in the map. And I had exactly 29 enemies missed. Well it looks like the math adds up, so technically I did get all the kills! :D

Oh and some clarification earlier, which surprised me and will most likely surprise the people reading: turns out, you CAN shrink the mini queens with your own Shrinker! I just managed to do it after aiming at their feet from a certain angle to prevent autoaim, it worked! And yes, you CAN also step on the shrunken queen without getting killed! I just learned something new and turns out, I was right with the Shrink Ray projectile being the same regardless of who fired it! Though note these were blue queens that are the same color as the Boss variant but I don't think there is a difference between the blue and orange variants, as it must be the same mini boss variants. You meet one in those chambers filled with enforcers and another one right at the exit! If you have any doubts about shrinking the queens, check my screenshots! ;)

Speaking of mini bosses, there is also a Mini Overlord showing up at one point in the map but at least it's easy to shrink him and step on him, as you can safely get near him. He doesn't even attack often, so this is a much safer strategy as opposed to shrinking other mini bosses.

And finally, I appreciate the fact you can backtrack through the whole map, even if you need to use the Jetpack to go back, though Crista gives you a full jetpack at the very end anyway, so that's nice of her, as it benefits both continuous players and pistol starters. The continuous players can just use the current one and grab the new one before exiting.

There are THREE secrets you can find:
1) In the purple lava room, look for a crack to blow up. Inside, you can find Portable Medkit, Boots and Shotgun ammo.
2) Inside one of the drone chambers, go through the middle wall to access a small secret room containing an Armor and a RPG. There is supposedly a Portable Medkit as well but unfortunately it is given a palette of 21, therefore it doesn't appear in the game at all. Thanks a lot!
3) Near one of the drone chambers, look for a crack on the right side. Jump in the slime to access a small secret containing Shrinker + 2x ammo and a pair of Boots. A Protector Drone is supposed to spawn in the chamber nearby but due to being given an wrong number (6410 instead of 4610), nothing spawns at all.

Overall, this level seemed better in some ways than E4L2 but it was still painful and had a few buggy/unpolished parts, like that Medkit being given a Pal 21 (why? it's the same thing with the armor pickup in last level of DukeDC and all this does is make the item not appearing during the game), most likely an unintentional side effect, as the multiplayer only items are usually given a Pal 1 but I don't know if Pal 21 also makes them appear in MP mode or never show up at all. And then there is a supposedly spawning enemy that never shows up when accessing the third secret, as it's given the wrong number and most likely a typo.

Despite the annoyances, I still appreciate the ambition behind this map, as design wise it's quite impressive. I wish the Predators were better balanced, as it was getting on my nerves how they could retaliate with rapid firing shotguns while they were stunned from the constant Chaingun fire. It's frustrating to get taken down from around 80 hp to 0 in just two or three quick hits. I think the best strategy is to just shrink on them by getting near their face and then immediately step on them. Harder to do when you are fighting 2-3 at same time but it seems it's the safest strategy and that assumes IF you can hit them! Either way, I'm looking forward to the long-awaited grand finale!
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Overlords

Time for the final level! Despite the title, it doesn't feature any Overlords. It's quite epic and I'm glad to have played it. The level starts with a neat scripted sequence and eventually the MINI CYCLOID will wake up! A bit strange that's not the FULL sized boss but what's interesting is he seems invincible at first and he shoots HOMING ROCKETS and can instant kill you when touches you! At least this level gives you shitloads of supplies to make it through, most notably the health packs and ammo for Shotgun/Chaingun/RPG is very common that the RPG becomes your main powerful weapon to deal with stronger enemies, while the Shotgun and Chaingun will be for most of the basic enemies. You are also given plenty of Atomic Healths and even a couple armor pickups (mostly inside secrets) that if your armor runs out at the wrong time, it's not as fatal as in other maps due to the fact there are tons of health pickups (Large Medkits and Portable Medkits) placed around.

The main objective of this map is to enter five different portals (only two are available at first, then you unlock the rest portals gradually) and after making your way through, you destroy one of the brains (there are five brains in total) while at the same time you must make sure the boss sees you and DOESN'T teleport with you or you are screwed! The best thing to do here is to lure him into a corner, so he will be standing there when you come back. Due to this map's length and difficulty, it is essential to save your game often and use multiple saved slots. Besides the saved games from the previous levels, you should have at least 2-3 saves that you rotate periodically in this level.

Also to prevent accidental softlocks, you need to watch the BOOTS inventory item. TheDragonLiner has explained earlier in the topic and has helped me understand how this whole thing works while playing the map. If you collected a new pair of boots from the previous level and they haven't gotten used, you will have them at 100% as usual. But when you destroy a brain, the boots will then read 175%. When you teleport back to the main area and the Cycloid sees you, you get a message on top about a destroyed brain and boots will be set to 0%. This is the intended behavior but earlier in topic were discussed potential softlocks.

There are a few slimers in this map that can rarely drop slime and you can step on it, which may or may not hurt you. If you have boots remaining in inventory (whether from the previous map or with a brain destroyed but before Cycloid has seen you), it can affect the Boots and can get you softlocked. To be on the safe side, I just reloaded my saved game when the boots percentage was affected, even if I haven't destroyed a brain yet. What Aleks said earlier is true that if you step on the acid with Boots at 0%, you will just get hurt, as technically the Boots aren't available in the inventory anymore, you can see if you cycle between the items, the Boots will disappear properly, as each item does when has 0% left.

Just to be on the safest side, I loaded my save if stepping on the slime, as this was usually happening in the same room you pick up the Red Card but also early in the maze with the slimers. This may not get you softlocked if it only touches the boots at 100% (when you started the level with) but it doesn't hurt (heh) to be extremely careful. On top of that, the Mini Cycloid MUST see you after you already destroyed a brain. You shouldn't go to the next teleporter with Boots at 175%. Wait until the boss sees you, which shows a message on top, then you are safe to go but also make sure he doesn't follow you around. This can also get you softlocked, as then it can be impossible to send the Mini Cycloid back to the arena. I guess so, as only once he followed me through the teleporter and just outright killed me on the spot. It's advised to save frequently and have one or two backup saves in case something goes wrong. Rotate them periodically, such as one save after each successful fight, one save after destroying a brain, one save after luring the Cycloid and entering a new teleporter, etc.

Once you get the basics, the only other things you have to worry about are the various aliens. Most are the usual aliens you encounter in Duke3D (atomic). But there are also Mini Battlelords that you should fear the most, as there is a significant number of them in this map. But due to how well you will be stocked on RPG ammo and health, you shouldn't have much trouble with them except in a few rooms, like the entrance to the castle, that part was a bastard to get through. And yeah I died plenty of times in this map but most caused by the Cycloid and a couple Mini Battlelords. :D

Once you destroy the FIVE brains and you go back to the Cycloid, when he sees you, you will get the message on top about all brains destroyed. Only then you are free to fight the mini emperor. Note that he has a shit-ton of health, as he seems to take 50 rockets to the face and half Devastator ammo and still live! But then he eventually goes down! Just be careful at some of his homing rockets, there is a type of a rocket that seems almost unavoidable and sometimes even travels through walls for some reason.

After you destroy him, you get a really cool brand new cutscene! If you thought E3 lacked a cutscene, then E4 has a new cutscene! But when it finishes, it shows the cutscene with Duke defeating the Alien Queen and then the usual Atomic Edition ending about the 3DR team having big heads and looking for a sequel soon! :D

Anyway, there are FIVE secrets to find in this map and strangely, there isn't one per each section as I thought. One section has two secrets and another has none. Here is the guide:
1) In the maze with the slimers, find a door that looks a bit suspicious. Press on it to access a room filled with various goodies.
2) In the same room you are picking up the Blue Card and get ambushed by various aliens (most notably a Mini Battlelord), after taking them out, go straight ahead behind where the Mini Battlelord was. There is a secret wall containing Atomic Health, Armor, Shotgun ammo and Chaingun ammo.
3) In the castle area, go to the left side and climb on those walls. There should be a secret room filled with various goodies.
4) In the castle area, just as you are entering the castle and get ambushed by enforcers from both left and right side, there is a fake wall in the right side. Go through it to access Atomic Health and Portable Medkit.
5) In the last room, there should be an armor pickup in the open. Pick it up to reveal a nearby secret containing TWO Atomic Healths. This will also spawn a couple aliens around you, so be careful!

Also regarding getting all the kills, interestingly, it seems I got all the kills (214) in this map. I didn't have any enemies missed, despite the Cycloid firing plenty of homing rockets at me, even if I tried to make sure he doesn't fire too often. Most likely there were so many enemies in this map that maybe the counter glitched or something. I also had to jump into a pit (in the last area) and kill a Commander that somehow got to the bottom, as I went to check the pits to see if any enemies fell down. Good thing I had the jetpack from the previous map, so I could survive the fall and get back to where I was.

Overall, this was an epic boss style level that really keeps you on your toes at times, mostly because of the Mini Cycloid boss and the many Mini Battlelords you will encounter in this map! The ideas with the brains were also pretty well done but I wish they used the Scuba instead of the Boots when they went with inventory item scripting, so it wouldn't get people accidentally softlocked. I believe that's what the Addon Compilation did as of lately, though I haven't used the compilation version and I'm only judging from comments I read in the topic in past year.
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E4 Thoughts: Very solid episode. While I don't know if I liked E3 or E4 better, the levels are clearly getting better as you progress throughout the entire mod/TC. The final battles were really epic.

Overall, The Gate is a very interesting TC! It is one of the most ambitious Duke Nukem 3D TCs of all time and was released just one year after the original Duke Nukem 3D! Just a shame it was slightly overshadowed by Redneck Rampage, the same game responsible for overshadowing Blood and Shadow Warrior that came later that year, which means The Gate didn't get much time to shine but it still seems to be fondly remembered alongside die-hard Duke3D fans. Either way, I had a lot of fun playing and finishing it for first time, despite dying shitloads of times in some of the levels that I probably died about 100 times in the whole TC. It's a bit shameful to admit.

With that said, the TC is not without its faults. For all the good stuff in it, there were also some bad things in it. Most of the levels are very well designed, with nice new textures, interesting gameplay and puzzles, some new cool effects/stuff and so on. All this is appreciated and makes the TC worth playing.

But, on the other hand, there were also some average/bland levels, as well as some unbalanced and terrible ones. I still think E1L1 was way too fucking hard for being the very first level and left a poor impression to me. It felt very discouraging and made me think the whole TC was going to be that damn hard. But as I kept playing, the balance got better, especially in the later episodes. So after a relatively disappointing first episode that was buggy and unbalanced as hell (some levels too hard, other levels too easy), the second episode was decent and mostly on the easier side, with only E2L2 being quite challenging at times and keep you on your toes.

The third episode has an average starting level that felt frustrating due to its lack of health, meaning the player has to suffer to get through it but the rest of the episode is well worth your time. It was very cool and made me optimistic that the TC was finally getting really good. Then the fourth episode did not disappoint, although I had a bit of a miserable time in E4L2 but it wasn't really terrible, just annoying at times. So was E4L6, which is made by the exact same author too!

But damn, I gotta admit the final level was very unique with the boss that becomes weak upon destroying the brains. A clever idea that was pretty well implemented, though once again I feel like they should have used Scuba Gear instead of the Boots when comes to scripting this battle, mostly because there aren't any places in E4L6 you will dive into, while the Boots can be broken from the slimers' acid, therefore the Scuba seemed the better choice to get scripted during the Cycloid/Brains stuff.

If you are going to play the TC and you are an experienced player, then please play on Come Get Some for the full experience. Most people should be doing fine, though be warned some of the levels are pretty damn hard, so saving often is highly encouraged. If you want a more relaxing ride, you can choose to play on Let's Rock, as pretty much every level has difficulty settings implemented that removes a couple enemies. Unfortunately, most levels don't have (or have very little support) for Piece of Cake, so you either end up with the same experience as Let's Rock or just end up with like 5 less enemies overall in the same level. Additionally, some of the levels even have a few extra enemies for Damn I'm Good, so if you are insane enough, you can try playing the entire mod on Damn I'm Good and see how long you will last. But no, seriously now, please don't do that on your very first playthrough! Just choose between Let's Rock and Come Get Some, which are the two most often used difficulties in Duke3D. :D

Final thoughts about BDP: THE GATE. Despite many good things about it, it's clearly a product of time and it hasn't aged well in some spots, especially with the various issues existing and lacking polish in some areas, like some missing textures/HOMs in some spots (I forgot to mention the last E3 map also had a missing texture if I remember correctly but chose to ignore or forgot to mention it). But for a TC released one year after the original Duke3D came out, I must say it's pretty damn impressive to pull such an ambitious TC with many people working on it and it really has the classic Duke3D feeling at times. It's absolutely worth playing even in 2023 but you shouldn't expect the level quality to be on par with the original Duke Nukem 3D, at least in terms of balance, consistency, pacing and so on! It's comparable to the expansions and certain user made content released around that time. That's where you should set your expectations, especially considering how many authors worked on The Gate that makes it feel more like a community project than a true expansion.

Not to mention that I started to realize since past couple years, how much of a difference in quality can make when you've got one or two authors working on a project versus 10 or more. That doesn't mean the community projects are bad but the quality can vary and feel inconsistent at times. I think having maybe two or three authors per each episode would have made The Gate a bit more consistent, instead of each map having a different mapper or so. That's not necessary a bad thing. It also kept things fresh and wanting to see what's the next level going to be about.

Oh yeah and seeing this compared to LR&WB. It's interesting because LR&WB was a one-man project and it was released in early 1999. While the Last Reaction episode was quite amateurish at times (at least until the last couple levels), the Water Bases episode was quite good and felt "official" at times, as it captured Duke3D Atomic's essence quite well. It also felt quite consistent. That's not to say The Gate doesn't have some classic/memorable levels but I think the inconsistency hurt it a bit in some places. However, it makes up for that by providing an EXCELLENT soundtrack! And some new features, like a new weapon and a couple new enemies, even if some of the new enemies could have been better balanced.

Therefore, The Gate is an interesting TC and I highly recommend checking it out. The first episode may not impress you but please don't give up early! The quality picks up throughout the second episode. Then the later episodes are even better, with an occasional annoying level every now and then. I am glad to have played The Gate after all these years and I'm sure I will appreciate it more in future replays!

Also I just realized earlier this month, after the topic went up, that this month marks TWO years since the Map/Mod Club event started. Thanks to all the participants so far and special thanks to Aleks for hosting the 2021 events! Without him, I don't think we would have been here in first place. :D

Anyway, it seems everyone chose Blood, so I guess I'm voting for BLOOD as well!

2000 TC + Age of Evil
One Unit Whole Blood (Part 1) +++

Looks like One Unit Whole Blood (Part 1) has won! The new topic will be up tomorrow! See you on the July 2023 edition!

Have a nice weekend!

EDIT: Forge replied while I was writing this post. Speaking of AMC, while it's a very interesting nomination, I don't know if AMC TC can be chosen for a month because it's very long from what I read in past, as each episode is basically a large Duke3D game/mod in terms of content and I don't want to overwhelm people with too much content for a month, to not repeat the past mistakes. I may allow future Map/Mod events to last even 2-3 months if there is a very large mod but maybe in very rare exceptions. Or maybe I can split it between the episodes, assuming the episodes themselves aren't that long. I haven't played AMC TC before but I would like to play it someday if I had more time. What are people's thoughts about this? I may consider to have a separate topic "Map/Mod of the Month Club - General Discussion" where we can discuss various things related to the map/mod event, so we don't derail the main topic.

This post has been edited by FistMarine: 29 June 2023 - 06:25 AM

1

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#71

View PostFistMarine, on 29 June 2023 - 06:12 AM, said:

I can't access Scent 88 since the past month as it says that I don't have permission to access the website):

just went there and downloaded a kaiser map without a problem.

chances are Frode has your i.p. locked out - he's had problems with spammers and download-bots wrecking up his bandwidth, so he bans large blocks of i.p. addresses.

You can email him and have your i.p. whitelisted

View PostFistMarine, on 29 June 2023 - 06:12 AM, said:

EDIT: Forge replied while I was writing this post. Speaking of AMC, while it's a very interesting nomination, I don't know if AMC TC can be chosen for a month because it's very long from what I read in past, as each episode is basically a large Duke3D game/mod in terms of content and I don't want to overwhelm people with too much content for a month, to not repeat the past mistakes. I may allow future Map/Mod events to last even 2-3 months if there is a very large mod but maybe in very rare exceptions. Or maybe I can split it between the episodes, assuming the episodes themselves aren't that long. I haven't played AMC TC before but I would like to play it someday if I had more time. What are people's thoughts about this? I may consider to have a separate topic "Map/Mod of the Month Club - General Discussion" where we can discuss various things related to the map/mod event, so we don't derail the main topic.

amc squad has 4 episodes as of this post.
https://amctc.fandom...C_Wiki#Episodes
depending on how much time someone could dedicate to playing it; you could power through an episode over a weekend fairly easily.
Casually playing it -probably two episodes a month - maybe even all 4 if you do a map or 2 a day, and skip or watch a tutorial on how to get through zaxtor's optional maps. If you try to figure those out on your own you'll probably be at it about 2 hours each (save scumming highly recommended).
It's initially intimidating at how big it is, but once into it, it's not that bad & it has some pretty epic maps that'll make it worth the time to look at it.

This post has been edited by Forge: 29 June 2023 - 07:36 AM

1

User is offline   Aleks 

#72

I think Reginukem + Steph Lessa would be a good choice for the same month, as they're both Brazilian authors. Another good pairing could be Kevin Cools + Jason Bredhauer, since they both worked on the 007 TC - or optionally also Turpuli, who made at least one map together with Kuffi.

As for AMC TC, I'd say it would be good for a 2 months topic, but maybe later this year? I also haven't played it yet, but as Forge mentioned, it's kinda intimidating considering how large it is and how many alternate ways to play it there seem to be.

Also - since Forge made an appearance in this topic - we should consider playing his maps as well sometimes here. I've been meaning to try them out literally for years!
2

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#73

View PostAleks, on 29 June 2023 - 11:41 AM, said:

Also - since Forge made an appearance in this topic - we should consider playing his maps as well sometimes here. I've been meaning to try them out literally for years!

1. only if you're incredibly desperate for content. my maps are garbo.
2. and the only site that had my updated playable (using that term loosely) maps no longer exists. I don't want to have to work looking through my hardrive to find them just to get sued for the trauma they'd cause.

This post has been edited by Forge: 29 June 2023 - 01:09 PM

1

User is offline   FistMarine 

#74

Quote

So was E4L6, which is made by the exact same author too!

Just noticed this now. I meant E4L5 when I mentioned about Crista's maps being painful. I need to sleep better these days. :P

Quote

just went there and downloaded a kaiser map without a problem.

chances are Frode has your i.p. locked out - he's had problems with spammers and download-bots wrecking up his bandwidth, so he bans large blocks of i.p. addresses.

You can email him and have your i.p. whitelisted


Interesting. I had a feeling my IP address got caught in a range block. It's not the first time it happened, though my other ban a while ago was because I tried downloading a single map and after failing first time, refreshing page caused me to get IP banned for a month. I will contact Frode through email to sort this out next time when I will download maps from Scent 88. Thanks!

Quote

amc squad has 4 episodes as of this post. depending on how much time someone could dedicate to playing it; you could power through an episode over a weekend fairly easily.
Casually playing it -probably two episodes a month - maybe even all 4 if you do a map or 2 a day, and skip or watch a tutorial on how to get through zaxtor's optional maps. If you try to figure those out on your own you'll probably be at it about 2 hours each (save scumming highly recommended).
It's initially intimidating at how big it is, but once into it, it's not that bad & it has some pretty epic maps that'll make it worth the time to look at it.


I understand. I will see what I can do when I'm less busy and when I get to play some stuff I never played before. I will definitely check AMC TC one day and will try to get familiarized with it, as it has been on my To Play list in last couple of years.

Quote

I think Reginukem + Steph Lessa would be a good choice for the same month, as they're both Brazilian authors. Another good pairing could be Kevin Cools + Jason Bredhauer, since they both worked on the 007 TC - or optionally also Turpuli, who made at least one map together with Kuffi.

As for AMC TC, I'd say it would be good for a 2 months topic, but maybe later this year? I also haven't played it yet, but as Forge mentioned, it's kinda intimidating considering how large it is and how many alternate ways to play it there seem to be.

Also - since Forge made an appearance in this topic - we should consider playing his maps as well sometimes here. I've been meaning to try them out literally for years!


Good choices. I will definitely save Reginukem + Stephano Lessa for sometime later this year, most likely for September. They should have about 20 maps in total, so that seems like a perfect fit.

Jason Bredhauer + Kevin Cools is another great choice and will be next in line-up for another month. I had to look up who "Turpuli" is and found out his full name is Juha Laaksonen. He also seems to have created a couple maps, one is indeed a collaboration between him and Kevin Cools. What's interesting is that particular map (Retrospective) was released twice and I will include both versions when they get chosen for a month.

Therefore, the nomination Jason Bredhauer + Juha Laaksonen + Kevin Cools should have about 20 maps in total. Another great choice (unless you think Turpuli would be better paired with someone else) and will be the next nomination after Reginukem + Stephano Lessa combo in September. But for July and August, we have Build games to play! ;)

If you have any more suggestions, we can talk through PM, as you seem to know better to pair certain authors. :)

And as for AMC TC, I still think that 2024 will be a better year for playing more extensive stuff made for the Build Engine. This also includes Alien Armageddon and WGRealms2, if they get requested enough. I don't want AMC for now to put off people from participating in my topic, so I would rather wait a bit more until we can reach an agreement and it is okay for the people to play it. Who knows, we might even get the AMC TC devs to participate in the topic and give suggestions/tips/tricks and what to do in certain levels, in case things get too confusing for us.

About Forge's maps, I actually played and finished them last summer, before my PC died. I will see if I will replay them in the future when they get nominated for the club, most likely with other series of maps by other people. I thought Forge's maps were fine overall, as in good balance, good design and interesting puzzles. The only annoying things were some parts being very dark in one of the maps (I used the latest 2015 build of eduke32 to play them) and you could get softlocked if you blew up some barrels earlier than intended. I remember accidentally saving when I did that and I had to lure a protector drone to jump on him to access the last secret or keycard or whatever in order to finish the map, as I didn't have a backup save but at least I never had to cheat, so things still went fine in the end. Other than that, the maps were fine and I enjoyed my time with them.

As for the July 2023 topic with Blood, it's not ready yet and it will be up tomorrow. Once again have a nice weekend and see you on the July 2023 edition of the map/mod club!
1

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#75

View PostFistMarine, on 30 June 2023 - 05:42 AM, said:

I thought Forge's maps were fine overall, as in good balance, good design and interesting puzzles. The only annoying things were some parts being very dark in one of the maps (I used the latest 2015 build of eduke32 to play them) and you could get softlocked if you blew up some barrels earlier than intended.

those were the exact things i had fixed and sent in to the host, but the site went offline.

i went ahead and spent some time looking for them in the dark back alleys of my hard drive and sent them in to Mikko, so when you run out of good content to review, that's where you'll find them.
2

User is offline   Aleks 

#76

Your maps look super interesting from the screenshots, Forge, I'm really looking forward to playing them some day, no matter how much you try to discourage me from it :P I guess they could be paired with Puritan's considering you guys both did most of the reviews for CGS (which doesn't work for me or ck3d for the past few days at least either, BTW - so it's probably something bigger than just a local ban, unless he's banned half of Europe ;) ).

As for AMC Squad, I don't think it would discourage people from participating - quite on the contrary in fact, it has its own Discord server full of its own dedicated fanbase, so probably could even have an effect of bringing some more people here to discuss.
2

User is offline   Radar 

  • King of SOVL

#77

The thing about a high profile game like AMC (as far as "high profile" goes in the Duke community) is that mostly everyone who is interested in playing it has already played it.
3

User is offline   Merlijn 

#78

I have been really busy with moving to a new home last month, so had no time to participate even though I voted for The Gate. :P

I've been skimming through Radar's walkthrough though, and reading the reviews was fun! It made me realize I actually never played this mod before. I must say it looks pretty damn good for a 1997 release, it's not difficult to see why it was popular. New enemies that are pretty well implemented, a ton of new content, new locations to visit, maps that are mostly good although some of them aged better than other etc.

This post has been edited by Merlijn: 02 July 2023 - 04:22 AM

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