[Aleks]

The Gate ++
NAM +

Also Quacken, if you've already played all the SG maps, I don't think there should be anything stopping you from posting about them here. Judging from what Merlijn said, it may take years before Maarten finishes the next AA map, let alone a whole episode, so you'll have replayed the maps 5 times by then and probably forgot your initial impressions by then

[Forge]

 FistMarine, on 25 May 2023 - 02:20 AM, said:

About the Red episode, it wasn't officially released in GRP format before, only unofficially released as part of the EDuke32 Addon Compilation. Forge mentioned a version with a batch file and this made me curious to search for it. Google didn't help much and after a bit of extensive searching, I found it hidden at Dukeworld, so maybe that's the one Forge was talking about?
https://dukeworld.co.../Red%20Episode/

fyi, the 2001-current dukeworld folders: 'unsorted/other/duke nukem 3d' (and maybe a few other things) are from me. I shared my stash several years ago with Tx. He was supposed to give it to somebody to sift through and sort out. They did toss out a lot of trash, but they kinda left everything in the state I gave it to them.

[Aleks]

Red 5

I have to confess I mostly remember the horroresque parts of this map (in particular the room with the massive new beast ambush from the ceiling, with 4 small transport elevators, and the corridor leading to that room). For some reason, the most innovative and memorable parts of this map (that is, the helicopters and redirecting the missile) are something I very vividly remembered, but completely disjointed from this map, so when I re-played it, it all clicked together for me. I also have to admit I never realised how much this map inspired me back around 2004-2005 when making Freezing Fear, from all the horroresque stuff, jumpscare newbeasts and random sounds down to practically ripping off the "strategy" being set on a small table with models (I even had similar arrows, same ground texture and alien army being represented by a battlelord). Probably the helicopters sequence was also heavily inspired by this one, although I hope I didn't make it that obvious and added my own twist to it.

Now down to the map itself: I think it's up on the same level as Red 4 and definitely can concur with Mikko's high praise of both of these maps. The raw design is probably even another step up from its predecessor, the combat feels more dynamic and the innovative factor is incredibly high. There's a lot of stuff I probably never noticed before that immediately clicked as being re-done in a grander scale in SG - for example, the sparkles leading your way like checkpoints in the underwater segment make a glorious return in SG4 and are such an elegant way of both guiding the player and giving some soul to the design of the underwater caves. The elevator platforming part that comes next is also very clearly shown, makes good use of verticality and is just short enough not to become tedious to platform through. The visual storytelling and emphasis on the narrative is very strong, but never gets in the way of enjoyable gameplay and combat, which in itself is just challenging enough, with a bunch of nasty traps (mostly the newbeasts I mentioned before). There's all the small design innovations that make traversing the map entertaining enough, but it all culminates in the final segments - the "cutscene" of aliens destroying the EDF helicopters didn't age a day since it was made and the synchro between the in-game effects and voice acting was perfect. Then there's the final "puzzle" which is once again presented in such a clear way that there should be no confusion about what to do, yet it's so satisfying (even aside from what has to be dubbed as "Build magic" considering when this was made) to just "solve".

I don't really remember the plans for Red 6 which would conclude this episode, but after finishing this map and knowing the story behind Shaky Grounds, I have to say I'm glad it wasn't made - the ending here feels very satisfying and concludes the story just as it should - Duke manages to save mankind once again, the alien army is destroyed, so everything came to a seemingly happy end... But the threat of "the Invader" is not gone nor was his identity revealed, which nicely links this one with SG - even the alien plot is kind of similar in a way that makes it believable to be conceived by the same entity.

[Quacken]

Hello! If I do one map per day, I can do all of Shaky Grounds and Clear the Coast.

Tales of Tragedy

Tales of Tragedy picks up where Apocollapse left off. Rather than be an outdoor city map with large scale fights, this map provides great visuals within buildings. The theatre that the map is possibly named after is great fun, with excellent lighting and many different posters aligning the walls advertising different plays. The building that's turned on its side is both a fun challenge to navigate and fight in, and the turned textures and map props strewn about on the floor and in the body of water make for a great looking setpiece. Once you make it to the other side you get an almost obligatory outdoor setpiece, although it feels a little more small in scale compared to Apocollapse. I'd like to point out the use of the security cameras in this map. I like the fact that the EDF has caught up with Duke and he's being briefed both on his mission and on where to go next to get his next instructions. It feels very fitting, considering the way the security cameras themselves actually look.

There's three fights here that really stick out. The aerial assault after making it out of the theatre is good fun if you didn't bring a Chaingun from MAP01, as there's a lot of things you need to keep track of including multiple buildings that explode and new openings that blow open to reveal many more monsters. The triple Battlelord threat after locating the alien head in the Happy Hipster store is fairly enjoyable once the new Enforcers show up, and I also like the final fight as Froyd Enarkee first traps you, then launches an ambush on you that got me killed about three times because I kept blowing myself up on a Trooper. Tales of Tragedy is an excellent map in its own right, but I think Apocollapse is much more impressive on a technical level.

9/10.

[Merlijn]

 Aleks, on 25 May 2023 - 09:33 AM, said:

The Gate ++
NAM +

Also Quacken, if you've already played all the SG maps, I don't think there should be anything stopping you from posting about them here. Judging from what Merlijn said, it may take years before Maarten finishes the next AA map, let alone a whole episode, so you'll have replayed the maps 5 times by then and probably forgot your initial impressions by then

The Gate +++
Nam +

Yeah I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression about Maartens AA maps, he was working on a sequel but don't expect a release anytime soon (tbh it's not even certain if it will be finished & released at all).

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I also have to admit I never realised how much this map inspired me back around 2004-2005 when making Freezing Fear, from all the horroresque stuff, jumpscare newbeasts and random sounds down to practically ripping off the "strategy" being set on a small table with models (I even had similar arrows, same ground texture and alien army being represented by a battlelord). Probably the helicopters sequence was also heavily inspired by this one, although I hope I didn't make it that obvious and added my own twist to it.

You know, I didn't even realize this when I was playing Freezing Fear. It mostly reminded me of Doom 3 to be honest (there it is again ). I also didn't make the connection between the 2 helicopter scenes, which means it's different enough. Fun thing about that sequence: technically it's not all that difficult. It's mostly just the perfect timing between the voice clip and the explosions that makes it work. Red 5 remains my personal favorite of that series.

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Re: Red series final form IIRC Merlijn always felt the series was incomplete because he never got to finalize his vision with the boss map he had envisioned and then as EDuke32/Mapster32 new limits came into play he started channeling his energy into Shaky Grounds which could work on a bigger scope, so in a way it's a bit of a curse (for Merlijn as an author first and foremost I reckon) that as long as a Red 6 doesn't miraculously happen then the series as a whole isn't really finished. And I remember he had some great plans for that one, but IIRC he could articulate his vision better within the scope of Shaky Grounds and so I can see why there would be no point in 'going back'.

I'll be looking forward to your thoughts about this once you've finished the SG episode.

For now I'll say that nothing was wasted. I started working on Red6 around the same time as the red1 remake, but it was never finished. Instead, the parts I had were integrated into Clear the Coast (it's the opening segment with the winding road). So in a way Red6 does exist, it just was rebranded and become a sort of unofficial sequel. At this point it would feel redundant to go back and make a new red6. As Aleks also pointed out: Red5 is a logical ending to that particular series (you managed to stop the alien army that was about to invade LA and foiled the plans of 'Invader').

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This is a complete remake of The Long Road (aka RedDuke) and is pretty much superior in every way. Except the really annoying beginning. I know you were supposed to ignore the enemies at beginning but someone had to get all the kills.

Well Fistmarine, I can only say mad respect for getting 100% on the red1 remake! I wouldn't recommend it to anyone except diehard completionists, but you managed to pull it off! Really it's supposed to be an escape scenario, but I understand now that this doesn't sit well everyone. I'm glad you still enjoyed the rest of the map despite the beginning!

[Aleks]

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You know, I didn't even realize this when I was playing Freezing Fear. It mostly reminded me of Doom 3 to be honest (there it is again ).

Yeah, as I mentioned before here I think, I even directly cropped Doom 3 PDA graphics and filled them with stuff from the base crew/AMC folks. Which again is funny, because I really didn't enjoy that game so much back then and never got that far in it...

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Well Fistmarine, I can only say mad respect for getting 100% on the red1 remake! I wouldn't recommend it to anyone except diehard completionists, but you managed to pull it off! Really it's supposed to be an escape scenario, but I understand now that this doesn't sit well everyone. I'm glad you still enjoyed the rest of the map despite the beginning!

Next challenge: get 100% kills in Anarchy City X

[Quacken]

I ended up finishing Shaky Grounds today, so I'm going to push out all three reviews.

Epicentre

Epicentre feels like a mix of the previous two maps. It's much more focused on open setpieces, and everything feels much more desolate than it should. The new music has definitely been appreciated, but I think Epicentre's song is very notable. After hearing about Froyd's dialogue in Tales of Tragedy, the suddenly sombre and depressing tune gave me a bad omen. I had played Shaky Grounds before, but I forgot all of the incredible setpieces in this map. All things considered, the first half of this map is a pretty standard city map. There's more great visuals, but everything just seems like it's too calm considering what the other side of Emmerich is like, even despite the nice looking cave that mixes pitch black with bright red strobing lights. The first sign of what's to come is that a large sinkhole has appeared in the central square after you've got the red key. You might not expect anything just yet, but the map really shows its colours once you go past the red barricade.

This map's latter half is quite simply incredible. Two of the map's hardest fights are here. First is the huge ambush just after the red door, where two Battlelords, a swab of Troopers, Protector Drones, two Commanders and a sprinkle of hitscanners get the drop on you as your entire world comes crumbling down around you. The other hard fight is in this beautiful area where the city has literally come on its side. It's not often when a fight in Duke 3D is as active as these two. You basically have to keep moving and switching weapons to kill whoever is in your face at all times, or you'll have to reload your last save. There's just enough health and ammo here to not make it mindless rocket spam, while there being enough cover to make it so you always partially have your foot in the door. The visuals on the latter half of this map are also the best out of the first three maps. The tension, pacing and setpieces are all incredible. Froyd's plot twist that he had a second layer of destruction already primed, followed by the destruction of the entire city of Emmerich and your daring escape using Steroids to run past a falling ceiling is exciting and treacherous. After finishing the second fight with the Battlelords in the flipped city, I stopped to just observe all the surroundings. I even went back as far as I can go to see if there was anything I missed on the other side of the cliff. The very final walk to the exit with voice acting and Duke's one-liner before you finish caps off a perfect map that feels like the storm before the storm. Epicentre feels like an action movie and is as exciting as a rollercoaster. Even its supposed low points build up to climactic highs in a way that hasn't really been accomplished before or since.

10/10!

Deeper Underground

Well, this is it. As of writing this, this is my favourite map ever made for Duke Nukem 3D. As soon as I played it, I knew it was the one. Deeper Underground is an experience like no other. It's not a crowning achievement of mapping like Incapernaum is, or invokes feelings of regret, hopefulness or disdain like Suburban Hive, or even relaxes you to sub-zero temperatures like Dark Side. Deeper Underground isn't like any of those maps. This map is incredible because it does everything better than any other map. This is one of the few maps where it really feels like I'm on an adventure. Starting from where you left off, the Kompleks turns from a recording studio but unfolds quickly into twisting caverns of alien corruption. There's so many cool-looking places in this map. The outside ruins where it constantly flashes red as if unholy lightning is coming down. There's the stream of nukage with debris coming down, including an entire ambulance and a bunch of street signs. There's the humongous drop that you can either take the plunge into a well of acid below or dramatically descend down by using the lift. There's the water section itself, which has the beam of light illuminating tons of debris. And of course, the star landmark of the entire map, the huge elevator you walk around at the final stretch of the map. Not only is the entrance grand as the area is preceded by a huge vertical door, but it took my breath away the first time I saw it. It looks a lot more complicated than it probably was to build. Another thing I love is the music. This is my favourite song in Shaky Grounds by a wide margin. It's just hard rock nearly all the way through, only stopping for short periods for you to catch your breath - as the map is setting up new surprises.

The combat is very nice too. It is an absolute onslaught of aliens here, but it can get pretty tight both on the river stream as many flying enemies will come after you, both waves of monsters that slowly surround you on the ground floor of the exit elevator, as well as the Cycloid that sits in a jar. The Cycloid in particular was both a nice surprise and also a challenging mini-boss. You can take advantage of the Cycloid's missiles to kill the fodder monsters, but muck around for too long and you'll get killed yourself. The Octabrains in the very last fight tend to scatter around a lot, so use the time to kill the Commanders and wait for them to group up, before showering them with Devastator missiles. Deeper Underground is basically everything you could ever want for a map in Duke Nukem 3D, and then some. There aren't many other maps where I truly feel like I'm an action hero, and none convey the feeling quite like this one. It will be very hard for anything to top this map.

10/10!

Final Rumble

As you descend down the elevator to your final mission, you only have a few more things left to do. Final Rumble is comprised of a couple of tricky micro fights before and during your fight with Cycloid Emperor Jr., along with another excellent song that is actually just entirely a warped electric guitar. The first fight in particular got me killed about five times as there isn't a ton of space to move around in, and the introduction of the Battlelord part way through causes a lot of problems. The arena with Froyd looks very nice, and has two tricky fights on all sides. On the left is a tussle with another Battlelord and his band of assorted minions, and on the right a Protector and a few Enforcers will try to stab you in the back. The tunnel with Sentry Drones doesn't seem too bad, but if you want to avoid Froyd's missiles, you need to let the other monsters on the ground floor follow you into the tunnel and pincer you. There's some nice-looking setpieces here besides the boss arena like the dark abyss you can see into at the start of the map, the area with the thick red fog and the very final section at the lava cavern. Aside from that though, there's not much else to this map other than finally being able to give ol' Cyclie what for again. Use whatever Devastator missiles you have and then polish him off with the RPG. Take a seat, Froyd!

8.5/10.

[Aleks]

Revisited The Toxicity and still had a lot of fun in it

Hearing "Smells Like Teen Spirit" immediately brought back memories of this map, although after finishing it, all I keep hearing playing in my head is the SOAD song, which is the namesake of the map It's a nice mix of early 2000s style that is very influenced with Roch and Maarten's own style (I completely forgot there's the "alien corridor" with colourful crystals already in this map). The city layout looks nice, there's some really creative use of textures (in particular, I like the use of the "hole in the wall" bricks sprite as a texture in one part, and of course using the 1.4 barrel sprite as a texture for the slime tank at the factory) and the acustic barrier with glass panels next to the road is pretty nice (also I love how the troopers at one point will just line up behind this barrier). The car, on the other hand, looks kinda out of place. I can see the comments on how this map didn't age that well though, as there's some absurdly cramped corridors, where you're often welcome with a hitscanner right in your face without a way to dodge or take cover. The restaurant at the end is definitely the high point of the map, as the design really shines there, the puzzles are clear and creative and there's the most interesting fight - ambush where you're thrown right into the battlelords' attack, which still plays pretty nice! The factory is also done really well with all the spriteworks and platforming that for once doesn't feel tedious. The RPG secret feels satisfying to get, although I agree with Quacken that there's too many invisible blocked walls or windows, which ends up as a kind of wasted potential in terms of exploration. I have to admit I completely forgot about the ending, which nicely links this map to Alien Planed X64-2.

[ck3D]

Geomancien's coop playthrough of Woudrichem War just went up:

 Aleks, on 27 May 2023 - 11:23 AM, said:

Next challenge: get 100% kills in Anarchy City X

You may be joking but I'm pretty sure I remember MetHy doing that!

[Aleks]

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You may be joking but I'm pretty sure I remember MetHy doing that!

Hmmm, didn't you use "full scale" cycloid emperors there?

Anyway, replayed Abba and this is gonna be another one where I'm reminiscing on how it must have inspired my maps (and Freezing Fear in particular, yet again - besides the obvious fact of both being EDF bases located in a snowy area). I remember beta-testing it back in the day and a lot of scenes definitely clicked, but I didn't remember it was THIS innovative and awesome in pretty much every aspect. The start of the map is pretty humble, at least relatively to what awaits us next. The map feels super interactive and story-driven, from the "other Duke, but with slightly different palette and talking with Dutch accent" giving you direct hints, to monsters feeling really dynamic and "going about their own business sometimes", like the commander blowing up the wall and entering the base after opening the door to the "supplies" part. There's of course also the epic sequence of flooding part of the base, which might be pretty simple design-wise, yet working flawlessly and still very impressive to this day. The spriteworks are everywhere and super-creative, the finale with helicopters was probably even more of an inspiration to Freezing Fear (along with the glass tunnel running outside of the base, it seems that for some reason EDF's architects really felt this was the only way they could mark their artistic vision in these boring blocky snow bases ). There's some really cool fights here, especially the one announced by a viewscreen near the blue keycard, but also even before that, there're two battlelords outside the base - one is static on a snow cliff and thus just kinda nuisance, but the other one just super-aggressively chased me inside the warehouse, which made the fight intense and particularly entertaining! The ammo is pretty scarce and I like how Maarten kinda makes you "work" for it - there are only 2 secrets, but getting the shrinker and extra RPG outside require some extra platforming (and use of steroids for the shrinker, at least in my case). The map in general feels very open, there's some places where you can just wander around the base, but Maarten makes sure you're doing it only in the permitted zones - which come very naturally, so no weird invisible blocked walls. Only the final segment might be a bit linear if someone where to nitpick, but the narrative gets so intense at this point that you just don't mind and follow.

Overall, I'm slightly surprised how well this map held against the time, especially for still being a product of "good old-fashioned Build". It has great design, dynamic combat, openness and grandeur, and lots of tiny innovations and memorable sequences. Definitely a must play!

This map wraps all the stuff I had to either replay or play for the first time from the Oostrum brothers - I have played other stuff, such as SG or Maarten's newer maps, fairly recently too. Maybe I could also play Clear the Coast again, but I'm pretty sure I did replay it a couple years ago. I hope we will get to play the kinda forgotten Imperium episode in a few months as well, never tried this one!

[ck3D]

 Aleks, on 29 May 2023 - 10:40 AM, said:

Hmmm, didn't you use "full scale" cycloid emperors there?

Ah yeah, well minus those guys. They're designed not to be hittable by the player anyway (but can get hurt by, and eventually die from the splash damage of their own rockets if you stand right below them with DNKROZ on). I remember he did kick all the Battlelord Sentries to death though, and even posted screenshots.

Imperium is an amazing episode, if it weren't for DukePlus falling out of flavor altogether I'm positive it would still be a popular hit and rightfully so. Nothing but fantastic memories about every single map in that one at the time, would love to revisit it.

[FistMarine]

Thanks for understanding, Quacken. But if you already played through Shaky Grounds and started reviewing them, nothing stops you to post the reviews here in this topic, assuming you will participate again and re-review the maps in the future. Just like Aleks said, you are free to post the reviews now to not forget about them later on. Although, I would have preferred if you played/reviewed Clear the Coast first and save the Shaky Grounds maps 4 & 5 reviewed for the end of the month. It looks like you already finished Shaky Grounds. I was writing this message in a text file since last week and just today I'm getting around to post it. I'm so slow sometimes!

About the Build Engine Games nominated, for the most part you guessed what's going to get nominated soon. Though if RR:RA gets chosen, I would choose it separately, as some of its maps are pretty lengthy from what I remember and there's 14 maps in total (21 if you count the 7 separate DM maps). R66 also has 14 maps but two of them are nothing more than very short intro maps in both episodes, so it's 12 "proper" maps.

Therefore, I'd keep the RR games separate, as initially I would have had the main game paired with the sequel before I realized there were too many maps for one month. If R66 were to get nominated, I'd rather pair it with Blood's Cryptic Passage expansion, seeing as both are made by Sunstorm Interactive. I had plans to nominate the original Blood as well later this year but I feel like it is best saved for next April, which is the Build Engine Month, seeing as the full versions of Duke3D, Redneck and Blood were all released in April.

Besides, the main game doesn't necessary have to be the first chosen. When we played through Shadow Warrior first time last year, the Twin Dragon expansion was chosen, so there should be no problem in having Cryptic Passage the first Blood content played for the Map/Mod club much later this year.

If you are ever going to play through NAM one day, then keep in mind it is very difficult. Using a source port should make it easier to play but the problem is just like most Build games, difficulty settings won't help much. I don't even know if the NAM maps have difficulty settings implemented at all. In best case scenario, maps have difficulty settings implemented, so playing on easier skills results in a couple enemies that will be removed at map start but the damage the player receives is exactly the same. I feel like most Build games suffer from lacking damage reduction taken on the easiest skill that other 90s FPS games are famous for (DOOM especially). Nothing is more frustrating than getting killed quickly on the easiest skill setting. Then again even the original Blood (DOS version) suffers from a nasty bug where loading a save will screw up the player damage values, so easiest skill becomes the hardest. Though apparently this only applies in most skill levels, the default/normal difficulty is unaffected.

And yeah, I agree that Red 5 concludes the Red series just fine. I just think an official episode release should still happen someday, even if Red3-5 will only receive minor changes, I'm fine with all that.

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fyi, the 2001-current dukeworld folders: 'unsorted/other/duke nukem 3d' (and maybe a few other things) are from me. I shared my stash several years ago with Tx. He was supposed to give it to somebody to sift through and sort out. They did toss out a lot of trash, but they kinda left everything in the state I gave it to them.

I didn't know those were your files. I thought all the findings and uploads are by TerminX himself. I wasn't in the community back in 2009 or so when this happened. I guess I learned three new things in this month: the new Red 2 is a remaster and not a remake, what causes the Pool Table Glitch in DOS Duke3D v1.5 and now this.

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Well Fistmarine, I can only say mad respect for getting 100% on the red1 remake! I wouldn't recommend it to anyone except diehard completionists, but you managed to pull it off! Really it's supposed to be an escape scenario, but I understand now that this doesn't sit well everyone. I'm glad you still enjoyed the rest of the map despite the beginning!

Thanks man! I really appreciate the comment! At first, I wasn't even sure if it was possible to do but after restarting the map two times (still on CGS obviously) and trying to save scum the starting area to get as many drops as I could, then I managed to do it. Remember that I will always manage to find a way to 100% a level in most cases, with some exceptions if a map contains unreachable enemies/secrets, a boss that you must avoid or enemies that unfortunately get stuck inside walls or whatever happens in some maps where achieving 100% is physically impossible. There are also cases where at least one or more enemies can get stuck somewhere but still manage 100% kills due to killing eggs (both hatched and unhatched ones), sharks, squishing corpses with a door, etc as they inflate the kill count in your favor. But in the latter case, you will never tell if you truly achieved 100% for real.

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Next challenge: get 100% kills in Anarchy City X

Funny because I was thinking at this map a while ago and after reading the recent comments, I remember playing through this map once or twice a decade ago and I couldn't finish the intended way without the keys cheat (I think I was missing one or two locations to get the keys in the pile of dollars), so I hide into a corner (no God Mode required) and after a couple minutes, one of the Cycloids blew themselves up to finish the map earlier than intended. Back then I also wasn't a completionist, so just finishing the map was enough for me. If I were to revisit the map nowadays (maybe when ck3D's maps get nominated?), I would gladly take the challenge of kicking Mini Battlelords to death around the corners, to get all the possible kills. I know I've managed to do this a few times before in a couple user maps and it's very difficult to pull it off but also satisfying if done well. I only wish that Duke's Mighty Foot was stronger (like 15-20 dmg instead of 10), it doesn't feel as satisfying as it should be. HeXeN and Shadow Warrior have strong melee weapons for example.

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Imperium is an amazing episode, if it weren't for DukePlus falling out of flavor altogether I'm positive it would still be a popular hit and rightfully so. Nothing but fantastic memories about every single map in that one at the time, would love to revisit it.

I'd love to revisit Imperium for the Map/Mod club one day. I think DukePlus is still fondly remembered by some people in the community (myself included) and it should be nominated/chosen one day, as there's a couple excellent maps included. I don't know how many people are interested, though. And I know that there's a few episodes that use DukePlus as base. Imperium is one of them. Duke Nukem Eternity is another one that may be worth checking out/choosing for a month. I think I could pair DNE with Imperium for one month, to meet the number of maps requirement for a single month.

Anyway, just played through The Unknown Planet and Shaky Grounds 1: Apocollapse. Using EDuke32 r5974 (latest 2016 build). I have played through the former many years ago but never the latter, despite seeing videos on YouTube before. Hopefully this will wrap the topic for now, at least.

The Unknown Planet

A much better version of Alien Planet X64-2. TUP is superior to X64-2 in pretty much every way, as Quacken said earlier. It contains plenty of ammo, health and armor that you will never be in danger of dying, making Duke feel like a true badass instead of a wimp. Yes, I mentioned there's now armor pickups and there are even EIGHT secrets to find! There are still no inventory items to be found but they aren't necessary to progress. Also the new midi included is nice as well.

With that said, the map remains slightly challenging, as there's plenty of surprise ambushes but even if you get surprised, you shouldn't lose much health. In fact, it is possible to easily finish this map with 200 health and still have a few Atomic Healths lying around. And I forgot to mention earlier but I find it a positive aspect that the only health pickups being Atomic Healths, as your health can go up to 200. The problem with X64-2 was that there weren't as many atomic healths, no armor and certain ambushes were annoying that caused you to lose health quickly. TUP makes sure to properly give you the tools you will need that no encounter becomes a survival struggle. And while some people may not find the map exciting if it's not challenging, there's still a couple challenging sections. I obviously prefer to have lots of resources and blast the aliens away versus being stuck in difficult situations with almost no health and limited ammo remaining. Therefore, the comparison between TUP and X64-2 can be seen right here in this statement.

The only nitpicks I have about this map is that the progression may feel a bit confusing early on, mostly because of figuring out how to get away from first room and I also unintentionally managed to sequence break and reach the ending before I found the three switches to disable the big forcefield leading towards the last few rooms. I unintentionally discovered a trick around the water fountain when I jumped to reach a Devastator secret and that said vent led to the last couple of areas, skipping parts of map. But luckily, I was able to backtrack and finish the map properly. It took me a while to find I missed a trigger early on (located near an Atomic Health I didn't need at the time) that led to a Blue Card which is needed (alongside a Yellow Card) to disable a forcefield later in the map.

As mentioned above, there are plenty secrets to find and unfortunately I'm not in the mood to give a guide for this map, as I have a hard time describing their exact locations. I'm only going to talk about the two important ones that you MUST get:

The first secret is found right at beginning and is tricky to get. Normally, you activate those switches (correct solution is 1-2-4) which will raise the pillar containing the RPG. This will eventually lead to the Yellow Card that allows you to get out of the first room, so you need to time it correctly to make the jump while the platform is raising. The problem here is that if you fall down and attempt to get the secret while the door is temporary opened (or fall down before raising the pillar), you get stuck with no way out, despite there being two switches (one outside the secret door and one inside the secret place) that didn't seem to help much. I found that making the pillar stop at a certain height will allow you to get out but it was painful to get the exact position (you need to take into account that Duke has to both reach the pillar AND the ledge with his jump height) and took me a couple tries to do it perfectly, as otherwise there is no way out, so be sure to SAVE in advance if you don't mind replaying the first 1-2 minutes! If done successfully, the secret will provide you with Armor, Atomic Health and RPG Ammo. This means this secret is very rewarding early on and is highly recommended to get. If anyone knows more about this whole setup at beginning, please let me know because I have a feeling I may have missed something.

The second secret is ONLY REACHABLE FOR A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME! In the water area, after using the Red Card to unlock the elevator, there should be three switches (1-2 is the solution) that will raise the water level. Unfortunately, this will block the entrance to the secret. The secret can be reached while platforming in the caves. At one point, look for a fake wall to jump through. You will land into a room containing Shrinker (weapon and crystal), 2x Expander Ammo and 4x Trip Mines (weapon).

I did my best to explain the first two secrets, as they are problematic, while the other ones are scattered around the map in certain locations that are very difficult to describe, so my advice is try your best to get the first two secrets when they are available and the other ones can be found by just exploring every corner in the map. You will find plenty of supplies but the map should be possible to complete even without finding the secrets.

Overall, this is an excellent alien themed level. Basically, to me, it's X64-2 done right. Bonus points for including backtracking but also one point taken away for having those two secrets that are very annoying to get, one of which can become permanently inaccessible if you don't get it before the water level is raised. No, you can't swim in this water if you are wondering, so this secret falls into the "one time only" rule to me.

Hope to see a sequel to this map one day and maybe a remastered X64-2 if there are plans to make an episode out of this or a mappack containing Maarten's earlier maps compiled into one or two episodes or whatever.



Shaky Grounds 1: Apocollapse

Wow! This map just blew me away! It is a masterpiece in every sense of word. One of the best Duke3D maps ever! I won't spoil this map too much, as it must be seen to be believed! I will only hint at the important parts:

Beginning. You need to rush to the basement while the building is falling apart. If done successfully, Duke will become unconscious for a minute, then when Duke wakes up, the aliens show up. You know what to do next.

Disabling the forcefields. You have to do a bit of platforming to reach the other side, where you will see a Portable Medkit, hinting at having to reach this place somehow. You need to jump on the rock that holds a small medkit and then you will eventually reach the other side. The switch will disable the forcefields around the map, as well as spawn two Mini Battlelords and two Sentry Drones. I recommend saving just in case, especially with the pits you can fall if you aren't careful.

There is a point of no return later in the map, at least that's the impression I got when you are supposed to jump into the pool. I don't know if there is a way back to the previous parts of the map but you should already have the five secrets collected and kill all the enemies before doing that.

There are FIVE secrets to find:
1) At the beginning, after clearing the basement and before going to swim, check a different looking vent. Go through and you will reach a room containing Pistol ammo, Freezer ammo and a box of Pipebombs.
2) Near the mall's further entrance, carefully walk on the ledge to find and grab an atomic health. You can also collect some RPG ammo on a nearby slope.
3) Inside the mall (from the entrance mentioned above), where you see the building requiring Yellow Card, go to the right side and enter the shop that has the sign FEDERAL LOAN AND TRUST. Find a small switch behind the desk. It will open a nearby panel for a short while. Quickly run through to reach a small room containing Atomic Health.
4) Between the two entrances to the mall, there is a nearby house with some goodies on the top. Find a way to reach the top of the house to collect Freezer Ammo, Expander Ammo and a box of Pipebombs.
5) Near the mall's closer entrance (where you can view the City Map), look for three palm trees to jump on (hopefully they aren't blown up). Then jump on the ledge and find two windows to jump through. You will get to a small apartment containing a Shrinker, as well as ammo for both Shrinker and Expander.

Unofficial: There's a few unofficial secrets. One is located near the City Map. Go to the ledge carefully and you will find Armor and 2x Trip Mines (weapon).

Hint: Health, Armor and Ammo are all plentiful throughout the map (all weapons available, Devastator is only given towards the end), so you shouldn't have much of a problem when dealing with the enemies in the map. If you find yourself low on health, remember that there's a couple water fountains in front of one of the entrances of the mall. Hold the USE button while walking/running through the fountains to refill the health faster!

Overall, I highly recommend playing Shaky Grounds (episode) right now! I'm only playing the maps separately (the first three ones) because I never played them before and there will be enough time later on to check the entire series when I feel like replaying Shaky Grounds. For now, I'm barely managing to catch up the maps for this month.



Anyway, it looks like The Gate is winning the next month's choice. Hopefully I can play through a couple more maps before wrapping up this month's stuff. I'm looking forward to playing Shaky Grounds Part 2 and Spacetronic. Though don't expect the next review to be posted until later this week, which will be after the June 2023 topic is up. Once again sorry for taking forever to reply and post about the maps, this is precisely why I didn't want to include the full Shaky Grounds episode. I knew in advance I wouldn't finish it in time, though I also didn't even play the Another Attack series. One day I will play these maps, I promise.

Have a nice day!

[Forge]

 FistMarine, on 30 May 2023 - 03:32 AM, said:

I didn't know those were your files. I thought all the findings and uploads are by TerminX himself. I wasn't in the community back in 2009 or so when this happened. I guess I learned three new things in this month: the new Red 2 is a remaster and not a remake, what causes the Pool Table Glitch in DOS Duke3D v1.5 and now this.

not trying to flex or anything.
I had a huge collection of ancient duke stuff dating back to dukeworld days and before which I had stored on several zipdisks and a hard drive.
The zipdisks got stole during a move from germany to kansas, and the hard drive had a catastrophic failure and couldn't be recovered.
I started recollecting all the crap I could still get, but with all those "free" aol era geoworld/astralfire dukering web sites going offline, dukeworld closing, amc closing it's hosting, dnr going offline, etc., etc. I was concerned about losing all that crap again, so I made a large torrent out of what I had and gave it to Tx.

Basically, if I'm talking about pre-2010 stuff that I have, or am aware of, you can probably find it buried in there

[Aleks]

Quote

The only nitpicks I have about this map is that the progression may feel a bit confusing early on, mostly because of figuring out how to get away from first room and I also unintentionally managed to sequence break and reach the ending before I found the three switches to disable the big forcefield leading towards the last few rooms. I unintentionally discovered a trick around the water fountain when I jumped to reach a Devastator secret and that said vent led to the last couple of areas, skipping parts of map. But luckily, I was able to backtrack and finish the map properly. It took me a while to find I missed a trigger early on (located near an Atomic Health I didn't need at the time) that led to a Blue Card which is needed (alongside a Yellow Card) to disable a forcefield later in the map.

Now that you mention this, I'm pretty sure the same thing happened to me when playing this map (sequence-breaking and progressing early on through the very same spot), which in turn caused the remaining part of the map to be super confusing and probably why I'm not too fond of it in the end. Objectively, it's still a very good map of course, but Maarten made/collaborated to a bunch of levels that are way more impressive, so the bar is set pretty high as well

[Quacken]

The final map!

Clear the Coast

Clear the Coast is quite a good time. The lack of a unique song was pretty disappointing admittedly, but I popped on my own music to add some nice flair. There's not much that really stands out about this map honestly, but generally speaking it's good on just about all fronts. I like the emphasis on teleport traps in this map. Picking up keys will create ambushes out of thin air, and some of them are harder than others, like the double Battlelord attack up the hill from picking up the yellow key. There's also a lot of rockets in this map, which allows you to coast by most of the fights as you're free to liberally apply explosives to all of the difficult monsters. I don't quite know what the red key building is meant to be if it's not the restaurant that I blew up earlier, but it's my favourite part of the map. I applaud the Oostrums for singing, for one. They don't even sound too bad, which is definitely a plus, but even then I would have liked the option to turn the singing off as it clashed with the MIDI I was playing elsewhere. The hall you get locked in as Octabrains, Commanders and Troopers parachute in is pretty easy to cheese but is still rather enjoyable, but the real star of the show is when you fall down into the hole at the karaoke stand. It might seem like you get a lot of resources in this big warehouse, but not paying enough attention here is a recipe to get you killed. It might be a good idea to let the Protozoids stay alive so they can suck up other monsters for you, but there won't be much to protect you from the four Battlelords that all drop in periodically. I barely made it out of here alive even despite carrying over 28% of a previous Medkit. All that's left to do then is to kill a singleton Protector, blow up the burger production line and hit the exit switch. Clear the Coast is an enjoyable romp with nice visuals and an entertaining story.

8.5/10.

Closing Thoughts

This'll be a little weird, because I'm judging the maps of two creators that were active both 20 years ago and then had resurgences in the late 2010s, causing there to almost be four different mappers I needed to write reviews for. Also, one of those mappers is actively participating in this thread. No pressure. So:

The story of the Oostrum Brothers has humble beginnings, to say the least. Their early 2000s map submissions definitely had life in them, but as someone who had only played Woudrichem and Shaky Grounds beforehand, having to hear dethtoll.mid instead of high quality music gave maps like The Long Road, Red 2, The Big City and The Toxicity felt like I was stepping into sort of an amateurish time capsule. But, as I went along and kept playing these maps, slowly advancing the clock forward in time until I got to the 2020s with Another Attack and Shaky Grounds, I kept appreciating just how genuinely passionate and willing to raise the bar that both Merlijn and Maarten were. It takes a special kind of guts to release a map that claims it will "scare the shit out of you" while also not even being 18 years old (both according to Red 3's text file), and as a result spawning one of the most iconic and well regarded maps of the early 2000s. When I heard voice acting for the first time while playing Another Big Base Attacked, I was genuinely extremely pleased. It probably took a lot of courage for Maarten to actually record voice lines on two separate occasions, even if the conditions he had were probably far from professional. The introduction of the custom OGGs starting from The Unknown Planet also does wonders in taking maps to the next level of both enjoyment and atmosphere. Not only do I not have to pick out a MIDI from my own collection to play instead of Taking the Death Toll, it makes the map I'm playing feel much more personal. That's also not to say of the original gimmicks and setpieces that were tried. Most of the locations in all of the maps I played had their roots in Lunar Apocalypse and Shrapnel City (as well as Redneck Rampage), but there was always the extra effort put in to make a location feel unique by adding visual flair. Whether that be to make it set in the arctic, or in the high desert mountains, or turning an entire skyscraper 90 degrees. The Oostrum Brothers' story may have started with humble beginnings, but even then they were both always committed to raising the bar and to provide new locations and challenges. The Unknown Planet, Spacetronic, Another Attack, the Red Series and Shaky Grounds are all projects of unbridled creativity, and should be held to the highest standard of maps within their theme. Through their equal hard work, their courage and honing of their skills, the Oostrum Brothers made a shining example of what a strong work ethic and never giving up does.

[Aleks]

 Quacken, on 30 May 2023 - 11:59 PM, said:

The story of the Oostrum Brothers has humble beginnings, to say the least. Their early 2000s map submissions definitely had life in them, but as someone who had only played Woudrichem and Shaky Grounds beforehand, having to hear dethtoll.mid instead of high quality music gave maps like The Long Road, Red 2, The Big City and The Toxicity felt like I was stepping into sort of an amateurish time capsule. But, as I went along and kept playing these maps, slowly advancing the clock forward in time until I got to the 2020s with Another Attack and Shaky Grounds, I kept appreciating just how genuinely passionate and willing to raise the bar that both Merlijn and Maarten were. It takes a special kind of guts to release a map that claims it will "scare the shit out of you" while also not even being 18 years old (both according to Red 3's text file), and as a result spawning one of the most iconic and well regarded maps of the early 2000s. When I heard voice acting for the first time while playing Another Big Base Attacked, I was genuinely extremely pleased. It probably took a lot of courage for Maarten to actually record voice lines on two separate occasions, even if the conditions he had were probably far from professional. The introduction of the custom OGGs starting from The Unknown Planet also does wonders in taking maps to the next level of both enjoyment and atmosphere. Not only do I not have to pick out a MIDI from my own collection to play instead of Taking the Death Toll, it makes the map I'm playing feel much more personal. That's also not to say of the original gimmicks and setpieces that were tried. Most of the locations in all of the maps I played had their roots in Lunar Apocalypse and Shrapnel City (as well as Redneck Rampage), but there was always the extra effort put in to make a location feel unique by adding visual flair. Whether that be to make it set in the arctic, or in the high desert mountains, or turning an entire skyscraper 90 degrees. The Oostrum Brothers' story may have started with humble beginnings, but even then they were both always committed to raising the bar and to provide new locations and challenges. The Unknown Planet, Spacetronic, Another Attack, the Red Series and Shaky Grounds are all projects of unbridled creativity, and should be held to the highest standard of maps within their theme. Through their equal hard work, their courage and honing of their skills, the Oostrum Brothers made a shining example of what a strong work ethic and never giving up does.

Toxicity and ABBA also did have their own MIDIs (although not created by van Oostrums - but still quite easily distinguishable songs, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" and Rammstein's "Tier")! As for their voice acting/singing, they are playing in a prog rock band called Tea Rex, you might wanna check out what they can do:

[Quacken]

 Aleks, on 31 May 2023 - 12:44 AM, said:

As for their voice acting/singing, they are playing in a prog rock band called Tea Rex, you might wanna check out what they can do:

I was aware they had a band, but I don't think I knew the name before this. I'll put checking out the music on my stack of things I should get around to doing one day.

[ck3D]

 Quacken, on 31 May 2023 - 01:09 AM, said:

I was aware they had a band, but I don't think I knew the name before this. I'll put checking out the music on my stack of things I should get around to doing one day.

Their band(s, counting past projects) always have been deeply interwoven with their maps too. There's been the MIDIs, voice tracks and occasional samples, but when you're familiar with the names, titles, venues, there are direct and sometimes thematic references all over the place (most obvious example being The Kompleks in SG but sometimes it's down to simple posters or signs). Pretty sure their musical history always permeated into every Duke map they ever made or contributed to like that, and even maps by other people who started playing along and also inserting Oostrum music references in theirs (I remember some of my own released maps have a few); they sort of help tie a signature shared universe together for all the maps by the brothers, it's pretty great.

Ah and D.J. O. Lordi still gets me.

[Ninety-Six]

Late comment, but:

 Merlijn, on 27 May 2023 - 03:39 AM, said:

At this point it would feel redundant to go back and make a new red6. As Aleks also pointed out: Red5 is a logical ending to that particular series (you managed to stop the alien army that was about to invade LA and foiled the plans of 'Invader').

Though the plans were foiled, I always wanted to know what the story with the "demons" was. Where did they come from? How/why did the construction of the LMC awaken them? What the hell did they find down there? And they seemingly weren't friends with the aliens, either.

Spoiler

Of course the other loose end, the identity and confrontation with Invader, was thankfully settled recently. I'm glad for that, since that always bothered me, too.

[Merlijn]

 Ninety-Six, on 31 May 2023 - 02:32 AM, said:

Late comment, but:

Though the plans were foiled, I always wanted to know what the story with the "demons" was. Where did they come from? How/why did the construction of the LMC awaken them? What the hell did they find down there? And they seemingly weren't friends with the aliens, either.

In my early plans for Red 5, there would be an extended lab section in the underground LMC where you would see test tubes with these 'demons'. Which would heavily imply that they were a creation/discovery of the LMC scientists, but then they escaped and wreaked havoc. This was scrapped to keep the map below 1024 sectors (and also I was running out of steam, so perhaps it would have been scrapped anyway). So technically it's not canon which made the creatures a loose end. At least you have something of an answer now

Thanks for all your reviews and reactions, it was fun to see you guys react to our mapping carreer! Oh and Quacken I'm really happy you enjoyed SG as much as you did. It means that the maps achieved their goal!

As for the custom music, this started with the Imperium episode. We (mostly Maarten) wrote a custom soundtrack for it, and it got really positive feedback. Since then it became a staple for us to release a new map with custom music (red2 remake is the only exception I think). And as ck3D pointed out music always plays a large role in our releases, it's especially obvious in the SG episode (The Kompleks, The Cool cafe, the music store etc.).

[Radar]

It's probably a little late for this but haven't had time to write anything until now. Just wanna say that while I didn't replay any of these maps this month, I played them so much back when I just started playing Duke that I could play them all in my head still. I still consider 2000s era Oostrum maps to be the most influential maps ever made for the game, along with Roch. Always nice to read more insight from Merlijn on how these maps were made.

[William Gee]

Just played Red5.
Brilliant map of cause.
Loved the platforming puzzle reminded me of Half life... in a good way.
Really Loved the ending, very clever, and great VA. The 3 helecopters slowly coming down was very nice at the same time as the VA, and the destroying LA sequence.
Gameplay is interesting and fun.
Detail and design is really really beautiful and great.
I also really enjoyed the password puzzle.

I do believe I played it in the past but the only part I remember was the room with the newbeast fight with doors that opened on timers, I'm pretty sure I imitated that in the WGCity stripclub.

[FistMarine]

Thanks everyone for the comments!

Thanks Forge for the explanation. I appreciate all of this information. I kinda wish I was in the community back then. Before I joined the forums, I mostly lurked in release threads and before that, sometime in 2009 or so, I was mostly lurking in the DukePlus thread, as it was one of the main things that got me very interested in the Duke modding community.

Speaking of hard drive issues, I perfectly feel that. I remember I had downloaded plenty of maps/mods for various games and saved their links in text files, etc since 2020 or so, as sort of an archiving process. But while I had saved the text files (many of which still had download links saved) on an USB stick in advance (I do a weekly backup of my text files) before the HDD failure, I lost a couple maps/mods that can't be found again nowadays after certain websites became unavailable. Not to mention work related stuff, pictures from my college years, various games and their saved games, etc. Really wish I could recover all that, even if it is quite costly. I was able to redownload most of the stuff I had saved, though.

The situation about my old hard drive is complicated but basically my HDD just refused to boot into Windows again since last September and then after getting to the repair shop, I found out there are bad sectors in it, according to the first guy who tried to fix my PC. And if it somehow boots into Windows, it doesn't detect the partitions and the guys who tried to help me tried everything, including Rescue Disks and the HDD always froze or fails to detect the partitions. I don't think the cable method you recommended worked either, as the HDD can't be detected and causes current PC to freeze if it is connected.

In the past few months, I went at several other tech shops in my city and none were able to help me. They recommended to send the Hard Drive to another city, where they have HDD recovery shops, to try getting my data back. The problem is this method is very costly, like a few hundreds of Euros to pay to get my data back. If you want to know more details, we can continue to discuss through PM to not derail the topic.

Also I learned a lot of interesting information in just topic alone. I appreciate all the comments so far!

Anyway, played the following maps in past few days: Spacetronic and Shaky Grounds 2: Tragedy. Played using EDuke32 r6576 (latest 2017 build). As always on CGS skill and getting 100% everything. Wish I posted this earlier but the review wasn't even halfway done yesterday. Hope you guys enjoy!

Spacetronic

Despite what Quacken said, I highly enjoyed this map and I easily classify as a space masterpiece. I enjoyed the map's puzzles and the action packed gameplay, as well as a few references to the first few maps from Lunar Apocalypse. The most interesting puzzles were about collecting five pieces for the spaceship and pressing on four crystals to reveal some buttons to activate the cannon and blow up the wall. Pretty clever stuff that deserves big points for that alone. The switch puzzles (one intended for progression, other needed to unlock the Devastator secret behind a forcefield) have the solution available on monitors/panels, so a curious player will easily find the two codes required.

The escape sequence with the Mini Battlelords and the slimers at the end is also very cool. I ended up killing 432 enemies throughout the whole map. Just take into account there is a point of no return when you start doing the escape sequence, so it's recommended to get everything in advance, as many parts will be blocked when you go around the alien infested place. With the generous supplies given, you should have no problem fighting the Mini Battlelords at the end. The map still has challenging parts but if you play well, you should be well stocked on everything. It may take you over an hour to complete but the time is worth spending, hopefully not getting stuck on the puzzles. Even if it might seem like there is nothing else to do, you should explore carefully to find those five objects (look at the monitor to identify them, then after picking them up, insert them to the place near beginning) and press on those crystals to reveal the switches to the cannon. I don't want to spoil any further.

There are EIGHT secrets to find (half of them are located near each other and some secrets are temporary opened, though thankfully not one time only):
1) At the beginning, near the place where you insert the puzzle pieces, jump through the EDF logo to collect 4x Pipebombs and 3x Tripmines (weapon).
2) In the large room where you collect the Shrinker and find the code to solve the switch puzzle, there is a timed secret that is only activated for a few seconds when taking the elevator. After taking the elevator, go towards the corner to enter the secret room containing 1x Shotgun ammo and 2x Chaingun ammo.
3) Before going down to insert the code, jump on the vents above. There is a fake wall you can go through. Inside, you will find Armor, Pipebomb box and Freezer ammo.
4) In the room where you are inserting the code mentioned above, press on those computer panels to access a small room containing Shrinker ammo, Armor and Small medkit.
5) In the same large room, jump on the generator and then jump to the staircase. You will find 4x Expander ammo.
6) In the room containing the 9 switch codes, you need to find the code on a monitor to disable the forcefield. Enter it to gain access to the Devastator and 6x ammo.
7) In the large room where you need to insert the Yellow Card, there is a touchplate that will temporary open a secret. Run around the room and then quickly run to the previous room where you came from. There should be a wall opened. Inside, you will find Devastator + ammo and 3x tripmines (weapon).
8) In the area where you will find the Wheel piece puzzle (see screenshot), there is a button behind the elevator. Look up and shoot it, then quickly run up to the Polaris Outpost room because there is a temporary opened door. Inside, you will find Armor, 2x Small Medkits, 2x Boxes of Pipebombs and RPG ammo.

Hints: Find the armory at beginning, it contains plenty of essential supplies to get you started with the map. There are also unofficial secrets where you can find extra Atomic Healths. Be sure to explore!

Overall, this was an excellent map that I highly enjoyed. Hope to see a sequel one day!



Shaky Grounds 2: Tragedy

The sequel to the original map is still amazing. I have a hard time to decide which of the first two maps I enjoyed more but all I can say is I wasn't disappointed. I think this one was slightly shorter (as in taking almost an hour to complete, whereas the first one took me just a bit above an hour) but still an excellent map in the end. As always, it was action packed and taking a hint from Maarten's Spacetronic, Merlijn introduces the funny object quest in the form of the Cycloid's head that must be inserted (alongside the Red Card) to disable the forcefield leading to the last parts of the map.

Be warned as entering the building containing the Cycloid head will spawn THREE Mini Battlelords outside! This fight is no joke, it is easily one of the most challenging parts of the map. Same goes to the ending with assorted aliens serving as the finale. It is quite challenging and tests your skills, especially since there is no monster infighting in Duke, so you need to circle strafe and fight back. You don't get to fight the main bad guy, Froyd Eenakee, who is apparently the son of the almighty Cycloid Emperor that Duke killed back in E3L9: Stadium from the original Duke Nukem 3D! I should have mentioned the nice little story that Shaky Grounds presents but I didn't feel like repeating myself, seeing as most people already know what to expect from the Shaky Grounds maps. Seriously though, be sure to read all the text files that come with the maps, as most (if not all) maps contain their own story.

Oh yeah and once again, there is a point of no return at the very end. You are encouraged to get everything in advance. Luckily, before getting to this point, you can backtrack to the previous parts to collect everything you've missed. I insist on this because I feel like getting all the kills and secrets is the complete experience of the map and I want to get the complete experience out of every map I play. I don't mind the lack of backtracking from the very last room. I only have a problem if backtracking is prevented at certain points throughout the map or secrets that get locked later. There are exceptions to this rule obviously, as some maps earlier showed signs of preventing backtracking but I hope I explained well enough to not confuse the readers. As I tend to point this out to help other fellow completionists.

There are SEVEN secrets to find:
1) In the basement at beginning, where Octabrains ambush you, there is a RPG found in a corner.
2) In the room where you collect the Yellow card and pig cops ambush you, jump on the ledge and find a crack to blow up. Go along the vents, kill the slimers/eggs, collect a few things and fall down the vent to reach a secret area. There will be a few monsters waiting for you. Visit the nearby room to find the Devastator + ammo, as well as a bunch of ladies. You will be able to unlock the door that you may have seen earlier.
3) Near the locked door mentioned above (where you will find armor in the corner), jump through the BYTE poster to fall down the vent and collect an Atomic Health.
4) After getting to the flooded place with the Octabrains, jump on the ledges and eventually you will reach the secret containing Armor, box of Pipebombs and Freezer ammo.
5) At the water fountains in second half of the map, dive in and when you will surface, you will find an Atomic Health.
6) When you press the switch that will raise a pillar in the middle and spawn a Mini Battlelord, you have also unlocked the secret. Look for the 3DREALMS STUDIOS sign to find the door that is now opened. Kill the trooper and take the elevator to collect Shrinker + ammo.
7) After entering the LANDMARK MUSEUM, look where an Enforcer is ambushing you in front. There should be two Small Medkits. Now go left through the dark corner and you will end up in a secret room containing Armor, RPG ammo and a box of Pipebombs. There is a Yellow card switch which requires a yellow card but you already used it earlier, so there is no shortcut for you, just a monitor message teasing you.

Overall, SG2 is a worthy successor to SG1 and I'm looking forward to playing SG3! Though it will be reviewed alongside the first two Another Attack maps, which will happen at some point in the future.



Once again, I appreciate all the comments from the participants, especially "developer commentary" from Merlijn. It's always appreciated to have the mappers themselves commenting on the topic. If anything, this made me appreciate the maps even more. Even if I may have been harsh earlier on a few maps when comes to the gameplay being slightly unfair at times (ABBA and X64-2), I really enjoyed playing through all the maps in this event, especially the ones I have never played before or revisiting the older maps properly (e.g. most 2000s maps played in DOSBox). If only I had more time to play the Another Attack series and the third Shaky Grounds map before the month ended. Maybe another time, if I feel like coming back to this topic.

Final thoughts: I always appreciated the maps that the Oostrum brothers have done. While some of the maps had a "rough" start (such as REDDUKE, which looks like nothing special nowadays), the later maps have significantly improved design, gameplay and such. I wasn't a big fan of X64-2 due to various reasons mentioned earlier and I also thought ABBA had a few frustrating parts that could have been balanced better despite being an overall solid map but I think I enjoyed more playing through all the newer maps in EDuke32, as they were much better balanced (I completed most of the EDuke32 maps without dying, whereas with the 2000s maps I only did like half of them without dying, though my issue is with the maps where I died plenty of times, not an occasional death every now and then which I can accept) and they were also much better designed, like how Shaky Grounds blew me away with its excellent design. It also helped that EDuke32 has better controls compared to vanilla Duke3D, so it made the harder fights more manageable and not lose much health if caught off-guard. I don't think I even needed to use the Medkit in certain maps, even when getting down to around 30-40 hp, as I was confident I would survive and there is health nearby.

I haven't talked much about the new voice lines included with certain user maps (such as RED5) because my volume was low at that time that I barely heard them. And various other things that other people have mentioned, while I haven't. I'm not that great at reviewing, so I end up repeating myself with certain aspects and only focus on parts I can clearly talk about. I think Quacken said it much better than I could ever do in his closing thoughts.

Once again, thanks everyone for the comments, it's great to see many participants to make the topic more lively.

See you on the June 2023 topic and have a nice weekend!

[William Gee]

Played Supa 3

Was a good map tbh, my first impression was that it looked cool with the snow and church, many parts looked high quality while other parts are under detailed, due to a mix of mappers but the map is pretty fun and interesting.
Progression is also good.

IMO this would be worth a touch up to make everything consistent since its a decent level to play. (y)

[ck3D]

Geomancien's coop playthrough of Weissensee is now up, since I've mentioned watching it live before:



Was interesting seeing both maps back to back in that mode. I tend to prefer Weissensee to Woudrichem War for SP, but WW does look like it's better for coop because then different players can go hunt all the different keys at once (although in Geomancien's game no one did that) whereas the rigidity that helps structure the progression of Weissensee now potentially gets in the way. Big fan of both levels anyhow.

Also it's funny I paused my recent SG playthrough just at the point FistMarine also left off (coming into the third map; I've posted my own reviews in the SG thread), that is some good motivation to go back and finish it finally now that I should have a bit more time for playing this month.

[William Gee]

Just played Roch Island for the first time.

WOW! This must have some of the best detailed rooms that I have seen in a map.

Took me about 50 mins to pass, I died a few times and also got stuck a few times and had to look on youtube how to proceed.

Anyways I kept getting suprised by details in rooms and nice designs and themes that look origional and really nice.

Gameplay was good, I just died cause... cause

Thanks for the map... skybox was worth including too.

Included screenshot is my fave location I really loved the design in this room.
I also really loved all of the different spritework chairs and details in every room.

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[ck3D]

 William Gee, on 04 June 2023 - 09:16 PM, said:

Just played Roch Island for the first time.

WOW! This must have some of the best detailed rooms that I have seen in a map.

Took me about 50 mins to pass, I died a few times and also got stuck a few times and had to look on youtube how to proceed.

Anyways I kept getting suprised by details in rooms and nice designs and themes that look origional and really nice.

Gameplay was good, I just died cause... cause

Thanks for the map... skybox was worth including too.

Included screenshot is my fave location I really loved the design in this room.
I also really loved all of the different spritework chairs and details in every room.

That was one of my favorite places in the map too, Taivo built it, I remember he was saying he modeled it after a photo he had seen in a magazine.

[Aleks]

 ck3D, on 05 June 2023 - 01:49 AM, said:

That was one of my favorite places in the map too, Taivo built it, I remember he was saying he modeled it after a photo he had seen in a magazine.

I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before, because this location also gave me an idea for the final area in Submachine being in a kind of too-grand-for-its-own-good-and-heating-costs lobby and also to rely directly on online photos for inspiration.

[Maarten]

Just saying hi here!
God damn, I wasn't aware this discussion was going on so active on our whole mapping career!
I'm feeling blessed here I will take more time reading everything and reply a bit more, if it isn't against the "month" rules, I will also replay & comment on Merlijn's maps since it sounds really fun to replay everything!


AAP3 was actually in the making and actually already had quite some parts (I even wrote down a whole episode idea, also brining back Spacetronic to it).. but I haven't got time or inspiration since...10 months?!
Lately I actually do play a bit more (old) games for nostalgia + fun and having tested WGHotelHell actually brought me back here..so who knows?

Also, it's awesome to see these vids of co-op vids of my AAP maps - really nice to see people stream and still (re)play maps!

[Nukem1994x]

Maarten, on 05 June 2023 - 11:41 AM, said:

Just saying hi here!
God damn, I wasn't aware this discussion was going on so active on our whole mapping career!
I'm feeling blessed here I will take more time reading everything and reply a bit more, if it isn't against the "month" rules, I will also replay & comment on Merlijn's maps since it sounds really fun to replay everything!


AAP3 was actually in the making and actually already had quite some parts (I even wrote down a whole episode idea, also brining back Spacetronic to it).. but I haven't got time or inspiration since...10 months?!
Lately I actually do play a bit more (old) games for nostalgia + fun and having tested WGHotelHell actually brought me back here..so who knows?

Also, it's awesome to see these vids of co-op vids of my AAP maps - really nice to see people stream and still (re)play maps!

Would love to see a continuation of where AAP2 left off in the future if it's possible. I replayed the first two this afternoon and still a lot of fun to play