[ck3D]

The Watchtower, on 19 February 2023 - 10:45 AM, said:

I was talking to Mikko, and he said he made through Map4 in 85 minutes, and didn't take any shortcuts. That's really something for a blind playthrough.

He showed me a video of his playthrough, it's insane. It's as though he already perfectly spoke the language of the map and hit the perfect route from start to finish almost down to the item (including casually finding the yellow key on his way), was on max health most of the time, absolutely demolished every enemy wave, and only died once due to one single bad maneuver where his own rocket happened to clip a wall, it's as Duke Nukem as it gets. His time comprises losing a minute by falling off the big elevator and having to go back to the ticket office to flip the switch again (all on steroids), and because he had Polymost on by accident he had invisible commanders shooting non stop from all the cliffs. He ended with 957 kills/293 missed and 11 secrets found/61 missed. I thought I'd watch his playthrough in bits throughout the day but I ended up being absorbed into his whole journey at once, felt like watching a first person action movie.

[formerlyTodd]

It's awesome that you've got over 1200 bad guys and (especially) over 70 secrets in just one of the 14 maps. Two thumbs way up.

This might be a little weird, but on my own low end system I was getting better responsiveness using Polymost. I'm trying to figure that out before reverting back to Classic, in order to play Blast Radius to completion. I know it might crash & burn of course.

(edit: meaning quicker responsiveness to input, eg a slight lag between pressing a key and seeing the results when in Classic mode)

[ck3D]

Vagan, on 20 February 2023 - 01:30 PM, said:

It's awesome that you've got over 1200 bad guys and (especially) over 70 secrets in just one of the 14 maps. Two thumbs way up.

This might be a little weird, but on my own low end system I was getting better responsiveness using Polymost. I'm trying to figure that out before reverting back to Classic, in order to play Blast Radius to completion. I know it might crash & burn of course.

(edit: meaning quicker responsiveness to input, eg a slight lag between pressing a key and seeing the results when in Classic mode)

Thank you,

Yeah ideally I wish I could look into the whole Polymost compatibility issue, it's really only a few things that I consider really anchor this project into software/classic otherwise nothing in the construction of the maps per se should conflict (unless I'm wrong and the differences in the rendering behavior are more crucial than I thought, but theoretically they shouldn't be). I just updated the release notes on ModDB with the complete (but short) list of Polymost issues I'm aware of thus far, today brought a few more: https://www.moddb.co...s-release-notes

Wish I could recommend a solution to your problem, I also am on a low end system except as you've probably grasped by now, my situation is the other way around, Polymost is either straight up rejected or causes insane lag. Appreciate you putting up with and despite all the technical weirdness.

[formerlyTodd]

Thank you. I'll try Polymost out in earnest while checking ModDB periodically, and report back if I find something not yet reported there

edit: this particular system is an older Lenovo/Thinkpad Helix 2nd gen, running an Intel Core M-5Y71, 8 Gb, Win 10/64. I'm very sure I can get better results elsewhere, haha! The power supply puts out 35w, and it can still charge the battery while in full use (brightness & cpu utilization) so this thing is weak sauce.

[ck3D]

New update is available on ModDB that addresses a plethora of quality of life inconveniences and tiny bugs, and throws in a few extra navigational helpers and marked secret places: https://www.moddb.co...adius/downloads

[formerlyTodd]

Thanks for putting all the time into this mod! Excellent info about the number of visible sprites being lowered on later revisions of eduke32 Just upvoted up on ModDB.

Edit: quick question. I'm not familiar with doing it, but is it possible to revert back to Classic, for those times/levels (such as 10) that Polymost has a problem with? Without losing saved games, I mean.

On this funky corner case of a system, I can't run fullscreen in Classic (although still working on that).

[ck3D]

I always run the game/editor in windowed mode too (I have a large monitor and so that actually helps me). At least in the included EDuke32 build, it's possible to flip between renderers at will even mid game in the Video Mode menu in the options and then you need to hit Apply Changes, that should automatically close and reopen the game window without missing or skipping much of a beat, at least that works on my machine. More recent builds I think behave a bit differently (they allow you to select the option upon launch, whereas in that old one the launcher doesn't affect the renderer), I'm not even sure I even tried switching to Polymost in any of the latest ones so can't say for sure about those, but I'd venture the guess you probably can do it in those too.

Renderer choice change I'm pretty certain in no way can affect your save files; well, hopefully. Seen a lot of unpredictable results from the conflicts so far.

Thank you for the ModDB review, much appreciated.

[formerlyTodd]

I just tested and display modes are freely interchangeable here (as they should be, of course).

This input latency is actually *not* related to the renderer, yay! It is related to the official version of eduke32 and my particular & slow system. When I switch to the eduke32 version provided in DukePlus (I use that all the time) it runs normally. It's subtle, but I drink a lot of coffee...

I can also switch to fullscreen as expected & it also gives me native 1920x1080. So I'm gtg, and I'll deal with any crashes and funky behavior using this version of eduke32 when/if it occurs. If need be, I'll play on a better system (which I do have access to).

Btw I still am not allowed to upvote here, or there would be more +1s in this thread

[ck3D]

I wonder how old and different your DukePlus EDuke is compared to the 2017 I'm including, now. I think it was 2013-2017 MAXSPRITESONSCREEN cap was 4096 and off the top of my head that aligns with the Duke Plus development timeline (loved that mod back when it came out, I remember for a while it was my go-to Duke 3D mode as in I would always run the game with it), so chances are it might be fully compatible with those binaries. That's a wild guess though, there may be unexpected divergences but I'm just saying why not try if you're used to that one. In most maps affected by the new cap you should be able to tell pretty quickly and that EDuke build weirdness mostly is for cosmetic purposes anyway (but classic/software focus much less so).

Was seriously considering remaining quiet about this but I just updated again (same link) to fix a typo in the level 4 title. While I was as it I also added SCORPIONTANK to names.h so Mapster should recognize and tag the sprite now, and fixed cosmetics/rearranged a secret place around level 3 start.

[formerlyTodd]

I wasn't clear That's the route I'm taking now, using the DukePlus 2.501 eduke32 executable.

It's specifically r9063 from June 2, 2020. I'm used to things like flickering sprites & the occasional sideways/invisible enemy (mainly Troopers who become very thin - pretty cool and hard to hit). It's all good.

I just wish I could add DukePlus enemy AI and the alternate weapons, hahaha! Not at all asking, just miss them a bit. I would be very surprised if there's an easy way to combine the relevant CONs.

[ck3D]

Well you know, actually Blast Radius code doesn't change anything to the base game's, it only ever adds to it, so if anyone is ever trying to get this working with other mods (whilst I'm certain things will clash most of the time) that's one thing out of the way regarding compatibility. I can't remember all the changes Dan made to DukePlus .cons (especially as the project grew over the years, I don't remember keeping up with possible updates but I'm certain it did), but he's a very clean coder and so except for the potential, occasional intrinsic incompatibility in behavior changes, making this work with DukePlus actually might not be that much of an impossibility. Would essentially just mean going through the Blast Radius .con files and check comparing them to the base Duke 3D .cons to isolate all my changes, and then try and port them over whenever compatible. That's nothing I feel like investing time in myself, honestly, but it may be doable at least to a degree in the grand scheme of things.

Something I made funny on purpose is the end of episode trigger by the way, whoever looks at the code and in-map construction for that one is in for a what the fridge moment. Could have been a lot less convoluted but I just wanted it that way. Think of it as some kind of secret signature.

[formerlyTodd]

I was able to upvote you @ck3D wooohooo! Looks like the magic number is 30 (or the mods did me a solid).

So I'm no pro, but I'm decent at code. With your comments in mind, let me take a stab at CON combining. It won't be immediate (understatement) but I'm no stranger to learning.

[ck3D]

That is cool, part of me was low key hoping my comment would encourage that mindset. The list of enemy variants I posted just earlier in this thread should be a useful reference for spotting the modifications, but essentially all their new functions are simply dictated by ifspritepal blocks that are, mostly, in each actor's code but also in some other places say, to determine item drops/pick ups. ORGANTIC, SCORPIONTANK and DUMMYDUKE variants are their own block of actor code (ironically enough, Dan very significantly contributed to the ORGANTIC code which used to be an absolute mess). The new projectiles, menu and various other fundamentals are all behaviors defined at the very top of game.con, the only new item pick up in the code is the Expander aka. GROWSPRITEICON (but others have been altered in order to add the possibility of being dropped by the new enemies) - there are some 'new' pick ups in level 12 too but those are map-based effects that do not depend on code. You also want to look for the new quote printing effectors NOQUAKE1 and NOQUAKE2 (they are the two 'Duke Nukem 3D User Art' tiles from the base games just coded), the ROBOTMOUSE code and some of the event-based stuff, most notably the size checks for certain actors upon map load. And then of course all the new sound and names.h definitions, level data, quotes and whatever. I'm trying to think but that should just about cover the majority of the changes you'd need to track down.

[formerlyTodd]

Thanks for all of that very useful information. This is going to take some effort but I don't mind giving it a good, solid shot. If it flies, it should be fun to have the additional firepower and more challenging enemies. I miss the dual barrel shotgun pigcop & red trooper, haha!

I'm heads-down for awhile while I figure this out. Thanks for the encouragement.

[Sanek]

Finished map #6, Koj Stil Borac (why the names of these maps is so weird?).


In terms of map-making, I can see that this was a difficult map to make, but the end result is very good. Perhaps it's the best map in the pack in terms of visuals. Some cool ROR-action going on, and the aliens' underground base feels almost like some wild Oostrum appears!

But when it comes to gameplay - not a big fan of this map! The red keycard slot hidden in a secret-like manner, it took me a while to find the church entrance.
The big fight in the coliseum makes no sense, there should be more night vission goggles, and I didn't find either a chaingun or a freezethrower!

Otherwise, this map rocks...to look at!

EDIT:

Also finished the next map "Lights, Camera, Revolution".

Yet another interesting map, some cool usage of the old spites (which is not unusual whet it comes ck3D's maps). Finally find a chaingun and a freezthrower, and old enemies with new attacks makes apperance.

What is unsual is how short this map was, compared to all previous maps in the episode - somehow I managed to beat it just under 20 minutes!

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[formerlyTodd]

I tried a simple test (include-ing the Blast Radius GAME.CON above the include DukePlus/dpcons/DUKEPLUS.CON in the DukePlus EDUKE.CON) as well as copying everything in BR verbatim into the local DP installation directory. Lots of stuff worked, some didn't and that's what was expected

I quickly (2nd map) ran into the "Too many sprites spawned!" error while running around on DNKROZ, so I'm looking for a solution for that. I didn't have performance issues, up until the crash. Also expected, but I had to give it a shot.

All just fyi.

Edit: in the interim, I'm playing and enjoying BP all the way through, just the way it was intended

[Mark]

I rarely play maps anymore but I had to see what all the fuss was about for this one. I have to say I was very impressed with the scale and grandiose layouts of the city maps. It really is an epic release. I didn't have the patience to actually do a proper playthru. I just went into god mode, give all cheat and ran and jetpacked around shooting things and admiring the architecture in all the maps. I'm not a fan of the super bright and colorful style and was glad to see it only in the last few maps it got used a lot. I'm sure there was a lot I missed inside some buildings and I didn't solve any puzzles but technically this project is right up there with the best. Some of those city maps are so big and open they could be repurposed for the game Carmageddon.

[ck3D]

Just updated once more to fix a handful of hopefully last issues (couple of softlocks, one killing wall crack, clearer navigation around level 12 and a few lighting effects that used to suck): https://www.moddb.co...adius/downloads

@Vagan: oh yeah, if DukePlus behavior involves the in-game spawning of more sprites then many Blast Radius maps will crash just like that, no doubt. Most of them intrinsically push against all the hard limits; I've had to delete hundreds of decorative sprites from some of them so they could run well in base Duke 3D at all. I'd estimate in total maybe half of the levels should be OK with (excessive) extra sprite spawns, if that. Ruling out the 'giant' ones in particular but also wherever new projectiles are used (maybe) so level 7 onwards might happen too.

@Sanek: I'm curious - what was your route to beat Paris in 20 minutes blind, did you find all three keys or did you skip part of the level with the jetpack? (Which is cool, this is one of those maps where jetpack at start means you can fly straight to the end anyway.) That time sounds just about like you might have skipped a third, if not two of the map, the secret count also seems to reflect that and I'd be curious to know which one(s). That, or you pulled a Mikko and somehow instantly hit the perfect route, but that level is one of the easiest to break the 'linearity' of (and coming in with a jetpack already means zero linearity at all).

Freezethrower and chaingun in Pula are both on their designated spot on the first beach and in the park respectively, I wonder how you could miss them (it sounds like you skipped that whole beach and park part altogether). My guess is, you either climbed up the rubble around map start to access the streets that way, or did make it to the beach but instantly went for the pistol (maybe?), then kept going up and missed the rest. Arena fight mostly serves as guard for a major ammo/item cache (underground barely has any) and also defends a 'safety' jetpack in case the player misses the one near level start, or runs out before they can locate any of the highly-placed refills. Navigation goggles should make sense indeed but I'm pretty sure there always are some to be found near anywhere that might need them already.

Koj Stil Borac actually was really easy to build, took just about a week I'm pretty sure. Only annoying part about it was creating all the arena spritework in the wrong order only to then have to go manually find and press 1 on thousands of undistinguishable, tiny white spites in 3D mode. (Impression on Sunset Suicide was wrong too, it was never started as a user map, every level was designed specifically for this)

@Mark: thank you, I appreciate you taking a look, I'm glad you enjoyed what you saw.

[Sanek]

ck3D, on 22 February 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

@Sanek: I'm curious - what was your route to beat Paris in 20 minutes blind, did you find all three keys or did you skip part of the level with the jetpack? (Which is cool, this is one of those maps where jetpack at start means you can fly straight to the end anyway.) That time sounds just about like you might have skipped a third, if not two of the map, the secret count also seems to reflect that and I'd be curious to know which one(s). That, or you pulled a Mikko and somehow instantly hit the perfect route, but that level is one of the easiest to break the 'linearity' of (and coming in with a jetpack already means zero linearity at all).

I explored the underground, didn't find anything there, then run around the edges of the map and jumped over the fence into the garden that you supposed to visit only after you find the red keycard. After visiting a museum I went straight to exit, so I guess I could finish it even under 15 minutes or less. Anyway, sound like I'm going to replay this map some day.

ck3D, on 22 February 2023 - 01:15 PM, said:

Freezethrower and chaingun in Pula are both on their designated spot on the first beach and in the park respectively, I wonder how you could miss them (it sounds like you skipped that whole beach and park part altogether). My guess is, you either climbed up the rubble around map start to access the streets that way, or did make it to the beach but instantly went for the pistol (maybe?), then kept going up and missed the rest.

Yeah, I climbed that rubble and somehow missed the beach entirely. Dang it =)

[ck3D]

Cool, thanks for letting me know. Yeah so you didn't even need the yellow key to access underground and I'm guessing used the sewer hole, gotcha. That's a possible skip for the first two third of the map indeed, full run (supposedly) involves going through the museum and next door porn studio first, then the blue key you fetch there unlocks a passageway across the plaza to the yellow key, which itself unlocks the catacombs/underground section you visited where you get the red key at the end and can finally unlock the gardens. But any way of traversal is cool and up to the player, I never even realized one could simply jump over the last fence either, figured that would either take the jetpack or some monster surfing, but again that's cool and rewards for creative use of the available space.

I forgot to reply to that but 'koj stil borac?' is a traditional and local saying in the region of Croatia level 6 takes place in (Istria). According to my friends there, it's mostly only all the old fishermen who still use it anymore, as a way to ask what's up and it literally translates to 'what's the style [today], fighter?'. I would love it if sometime a local chimed in after playing and reacted, or maybe corrected me if needed. I couldn't find any fitting Croatian music for the map and so the midi embraces the fighter theme instead being a song called 'Warriors of Life'.

[ck3D]

There's one more update up that addresses the formerly occasionally finicky Nukebutton at the end of level 3 in addition to better marking some of its switches in the first half of the map, turns a Sunburnt Battlelord in level 4 into a Respawn trigger (sounds simple but works a lot better like that) and addresses some random stuff around the levels such as Duke Talk volume or placement (just to avoid overlap with explosions). I forgot to mention that before but some of the Davy/Linda pairings and placements in level 5 were also refined a bit, that was a few updates ago.

I consider the project mostly clean now and so would recommend everyone updates, as this build realistically shouldn't budge much at all anymore, but it's been quite the sum of tweaks and quality of life improvements since release day: https://www.moddb.co...3d-blast-radius

[Sanek]

Finished map #8 yesterday and maps #9-11 today!

Norilsk-No Reward. So yeah, it's based in Russia and that's about it.

Great pun in the title imo. I like how you don't use much of a snow-like tiles, yet this place looks like it's kinda cold.

In terms of gameplay it's probably the let's say wildest map yet. Like the puddles on the streets. Some cool lights in the second half of the map. And what's interesting is when it comes to maps set in Russia, that's almost exactly how mappers how make building and stuff (especially rooftops), but on a waaay smaller scale. I actually experienced some serious fps drop whenever I looked into the center of the map!

Nakano Nightmare is a map I finished even quicker than the Paris map, as I accidentally find the rooftop that opened the way to the exit, so it's all over in less than 10 minutes. Which is a bummer, as visually it's probably the second-best city map in the pack, after the 2nd level. One area (the mall I think) looks like it's almost copied from the 2-hour CBP we did years ago. I almost expected some Shadow Warrior tiles here and there. It's definitely a map I would revisit some day.

Postmortem is yet another epic map, and visually I think it's the map yet, since I like space maps and seeing the one like this is a feast for the eyes imo. Nice beginning too!
I dunno if it's true, but I see the strong inspiration from Zaxtor's maps there.
Oh, and finally ck3D made another space-themed map (not alien map). The last time he made space-themed map was like 18 years ago. It was ridiculed to pieces, ck3D turned almost exclusively to city maps and everyone pretended like that space map has never happened.

The map #11 is a short interlude so I didn't make the screen there. Anyway it's kinda cool and it took me a while to realise that it's a medley of sorts.

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[NNC]

Norilsk, No Reward.... how did I miss the pun for the first time? Very nice...

[NNC]

Btw. I checked again Map10, and that terrible set of tripwires at the exit of the very first elevator is still there. Am I the only one who don't like these hidden tripwires?

[ck3D]

The Watchtower, on 23 February 2023 - 01:04 PM, said:

Btw. I checked again Map10, and that terrible set of tripwires at the exit of the very first elevator is still there. Am I the only one who don't like these hidden tripwires?

I know I like them, but I'm sure it totally depends on play style. Honestly though, it's been quite a few blind playthroughs of the first level by different people that I've seen at this point, and I've observed not just that absolutely none of them ever triggered the first double tripmine trap that is there, but also that players actually felt smart upon noticing the second mine, blowing the whole set-up up with pipebombs, or luring the Liztroop into the laser. Which I actually think is pretty cool, as that means they will remember that logic for the rest of the episode and stay on the lookout as those traps remain rare, but only get worse (but never too unfair or anything a pipebomb can defuse). That one double whooper at the start of level 10 I actually kind of like because it simultaneously combines two moments from level 1: the tripmine 'puzzle' and the elevator pipebomb 'puzzle' into just one, into what's the very last Earthly room of the set, I think it's a pretty cute throwback to wrap things up at that stage. Plus it's EDF Japan, I'm sure they would do it.

Speaking of level 1, here's a dedicated write-up I never expected would take so long, but now exists: https://www.moddb.co...-level-1brl1map

[Ninety-Six]

Had some more time, made more progress in level 4. Crossed the bridge, did more mountaineering (stopping before the lake of purple slime and the forest on the other side of the "island" so that I don't wake up a wave I'm not ready for), blew up the building and spent about an hour and a half clearing out the city. It's amazing how much gameplay was wrung out of, what, like only three city blocks?

Decided I'd go through the red key passage before stopping (and ended up getting obsessed with the ceiling doors convinced it was a secret), and as soon as I surfaced I was in the middle of probably the toughest fight I've experienced this whole time. Had to finish that before I could stop because that's definitely not the kind of thing to jump into after a break.

This area gives me Jungle Zone flashbacks from LR&WB. Besides the obvious aesthetic similarity, this also has a wide forest floor surrounding a large rocky mountain.

Of course, this level plays much better than that did. In fact I've found myself making a lot of comparisons to that whole trilogy during my playtime (though in the positive way). Aesthetically it's very ck3d, plot-wise it's completely separate, but the gameplay and difficulty really does kinda feel like it picks up right where Chimera left off. Which is a good thing because I like being able to play some classic Duke against new enemy types, and missed the trilogy despite my gripes with it for that reason.


I've always found it kind of ironic how Doom was never meant to be flexible enough to have additional enemy types, but thanks to DEHACKED they're pretty common to find even in vanilla-compatible levels. Meanwhile, Duke has always had its con files freely editable since release, and yet it's not often that we see new enemies introduced in classic gameplay. It's more the ones that separate themselves from the vanilla game that really make the most of it.

[NNC]

ck3D, on 23 February 2023 - 05:54 PM, said:

I know I like them, but I'm sure it totally depends on play style. Honestly though, it's been quite a few blind playthroughs of the first level by different people that I've seen at this point, and I've observed not just that absolutely none of them ever triggered the first double tripmine trap that is there, but also that players actually felt smart upon noticing the second mine, blowing the whole set-up up with pipebombs, or luring the Liztroop into the laser. Which I actually think is pretty cool, as that means they will remember that logic for the rest of the episode and stay on the lookout as those traps remain rare, but only get worse (but never too unfair or anything a pipebomb can defuse). That one double whooper at the start of level 10 I actually kind of like because it simultaneously combines two moments from level 1: the tripmine 'puzzle' and the elevator pipebomb 'puzzle' into just one, into what's the very last Earthly room of the set, I think it's a pretty cute throwback to wrap things up at that stage. Plus it's EDF Japan, I'm sure they would do it.

Well, if others avoided that, it might have been my grief only. As I noticed, my skills of playing this game had declined a lot at late, as I don't play too many levels, while back in the glory days, I managed to beat stuff like LRWB on CGS. And playing this one helped me to improve a bit to previous levels, I had more troubles with Map2 than Map7 for example, which is vastly more difficult.

I still think the 3 tripwires (Map1 one you referred, Map2 in FTC, Map10 elevator) are too mean. A player shouldn't expect patterns for the first time. Funny, how the turret in map1 makes that one easier to dodge in skill3. It also helps you to get in there with the door open, so you stop at the liztroop. I guess I was blown up at the first time with a closed door. Map2 ones are only bad from the outside, as the wires are hard to see from the police lines. But both are okay, Map10 one is just not. At least in my opinion.

It's a bit like those "danger" falls in Map7/10, and to a lesser extent, Map1 (near the place of the wires).

But these are my "typical Watchtower" nitpicking only, I want to plan a proper review of the maps soon, so far I posted irrelevant things in this thread, not talking about the real merits of this episode. Just still want to find the time to do it, now it's busier IRL, than it was in January.

[Sanek]

Any hints to where should I go in map # 12? To get a keycard at least? I have no idea.

Also, the first time EVER I expiernced a bug like this in Duke3D!

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[ck3D]

I don't know when the last time you updated was and which version you're playing, but I've been adding more and more clues for the navigation around that map throughout the week; if you're playing a slightly older version then yeah the key cards will be hard to track down (more recent versions have many more security screens and various extra markers).

Just in case you're playing an older version, here is what's been made more obvious in the latest updates:

- the switch to get to the blue key can be seen from the security screen near the blue door, that always was the case but the switch itself used to be a bit harder to spot despite being giant, because of the green lights and camera angle combo (now adjusted). That same screen also hints at what the switch affects, but players seemed to really struggle with that nonetheless (the shorter attention spans would have forgotten about that screen by the time they reached the switch already) and so the current version now has one more screen right next to the switch to give away what it does, but I hate it. Basically all you need to know is, when you've flipped that switch, drop right down and you should be able to find the blue key;

- the yellow key is on top of a Commander in a risky spot you can also see ahead of time on camera, but the second it will spot you and move it will drop it. To access that building is by the means of that underwater 4-switch combo near the crushers, that used to be completely obscure but I've been throwing in many/better cameras and screens; the room that opens up is an elevator (used to be hard to tell, but the newer versions really mark it);

- where to go after the yellow key part used to be mostly hinted at by using that one teleporter (you'll know it when you see it) but might have been easy to miss in the past regardless, there are cameras to confirm it for you in case of doubt now, but if you're unsure, yes, using the teleporter puts you on the right path and eventually should lead you to the place with the red key if you follow it;

- depending on how old the version you're playing is, the red key might be tricky to spot (but is now super obvious with red palette everywhere). Pretty sure it always was visible on camera too but used to blend in and be really tough to notice. I'd imagine instinctually, you'll know it should be in the room it's in but might not find it looking around, in which case, try looking up (this is what the red palettes now command the player to do).

Perhaps one good hint is, in order to start flipping the odds your way in that level, you want to find your first jetpack as early as possible, which is doable in just a couple of minutes if you trust and follow all the platforms.

Re: too many sprites spawned error that sucks I thought I had eliminated it, that used to be an issue with this map but I thought I had lowered sprite count low enough, only rare times it seems to happen anymore is when using DNKROZ to get around for screenshots, running all around the map and triggering but never killing anything. That's good to know it can still happen on 'casual' play, I might need to consider extra cuts. (Also can't help but notice you're playing with a recent EDuke and not the included one, not that I mind but you must be getting heaps of sprite glitches, hope this is a conscious decision and you're fine with that, my own OCD would hate it)

Sub 40 in Postmortem on a blind playthrough is a really good time by the way, just noticed that. That level is one of the few one can't really sequence break.

@The Watchtower: I get you re: anti design, I think I'm only rather intrigued by the tripmine thing because it raises all kinds of questions regarding how far 'new' or 'different' (even when arguably so, too) is tolerable to introduce to a player at once. Because this case is dead simple (it's a very rudimentary variant on a base game trap, honestly for the longest time I was convinced the original levels already did tripmines on opposite walls) is exactly why it's catching my attention, but I can actually see every angle and from a purely logical standpoint it only makes sense to hate tripmines in general anyway (beep beep beep). Now I wonder if your first time running into the tripmine set-ups in the base game, perhaps you hated that mechanic all the same at the time but eventually got used to it and started accepting it, but only in those strict established conditions? I think I'm especially curious because this also happens to be the case of a gameplay element that's essentially frustrating by design, but I'm realizing that frustration can be articulated in many ways.

@Ninety-Six love to hear it, both your impressions and progress. IIRC the big fight once you emerge out of that pit is Aleks' favorite.

[Sanek]

@ck3D thanks for the tips!

I'm playing the first version. And i run it on the latest eduke version...