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[RELEASE] Duke Nukem 3D: Blast Radius full 14-map episode  ""A one-way trip!""

User is online   ck3D 

#361

Hey thanks a lot for the info or I would have no way of knowing. Right now it sounds particularly interesting to me what you're reporting about this particular command being problematic as I'm certain it always was part of the code, including in the version you successfully got running a while ago; all I've been updating has been the value, to reflect, respectively throughout updates, no E1 cutscene (original Blast Radius episode release), then no E2 cutscene (Zero Zone introduction), then all the other slots progressively with every new remake map of the original episodes. So I'm under the impression that it is overshooting some sort of ancient limit NetDuke wasn't prepared to handle that is being the issue and conflicting with the now higher value. But that probably doesn't make sense and just looking at the .con file again when I get to might just confirm I'm being stupid and not remembering how the system works.

Empty .ANM could be a solution (I'd need to install the tools to make that and learn them but shouldn't be difficult), but a possibly better one is I've been thinking of reordering the episodic presentation altogether sometime anyway, so less spots would be taken and there would be less emphasis on the E1/2/3 remakes, if anything I'd be interested in rearranging those in succession all the while updating the enemy selection to the larger Blast Radius roster but that would need some work that I can't prioritize right now and I'd have to check if that even plays well to begin with. So I'm hoping just needing to cut three cutscenes is something NetDuke could handle, if the value really turns out to be the cause.
2

User is offline   NY00123 

#362

View Postck3D, on 02 June 2024 - 03:28 PM, said:

Right now it sounds particularly interesting to me what you're reporting about this particular command being problematic as I'm certain it always was part of the code, including in the version you successfully got running a while ago; all I've been updating has been the value, to reflect, respectively throughout updates, no E1 cutscene (original Blast Radius episode release), then no E2 cutscene (Zero Zone introduction), then all the other slots progressively with every new remake map of the original episodes. So I'm under the impression that it is overshooting some sort of ancient limit NetDuke wasn't prepared to handle that is being the issue and conflicting with the now higher value.


From what I've seen, the value of the gamevar LOGO_FLAGS is overwritten. Earlier versions used 69887. Hopefully not missing any bit, that translates to LOGO_NOE1ENDSCREEN|LOGO_NOE1BONUSSCENE|LOGO_PLUTOPAKSPRITE|LOGO_THREEDEE|LOGO_DUKENUKEM|LOGO_TITLESCREEN|LOGO_3DRSCREEN|LOGO_PLAYMUSIC|LOGO_PLAYANIM|LOGO_ENABLED.

The last version has it set to 1954047, thus adding LOGO_NODUKETEAMPIC|LOGO_NODUKETEAMTEXT|LOGO_NOE3RADLOGO|LOGO_NOE4BONUSSCENE|LOGO_NOE3BONUSSCENE.

Of course, even if LOGO_FLAGS had no built-in behaviors in EDuke32 or NetDuke32, that didn't mean you couldn't define a gamevar named LOGO_FLAGS. NetDuke32 itself checks LOGO_FLAGS, but not all flags that EDuke32 inspects. As of version 1.2.1, only these ones seem to be checked (at least to some extent), basically all values below 1024:

LOGO_ENABLED, LOGO_PLAYANIM, LOGO_PLAYMUSIC, LOGO_3DRSCREEN, LOGO_TITLESCREEN, LOGO_DUKENUKEM, LOGO_THREEDEE, LOGO_PLUTOPAKSPRITE, LOGO_SHAREWARESCREENS, LOGO_TENSCREEN.

In particular, there does not seem to be a direct way of disabling the episode ending animations and sequences via LOGO_FLAGS. I suppose they had a lower priority due to not being displayed in multiplayer games with NetDuke32, either way. Still appearing in single-player mode for NetDuke32, of course.

At least for now, NetDuke32's maintainer shifted focus back to other matters (see TerminalFury). I also don't know how much of EDuke32 would he want to backport into NetDuke32 as-is.

What I've written about LOGO_FLAGS in particular shows one thing again. If user-made contents have been tested with a specific source port (EDuke32) in mind, then behaviors might differ in any manner if I try something different. On the other hand, if support for another source port (NetDuke32) is something the author is interested in, then at least minimal testing should assist. Apart from LOGO_FLAGS, I'm also aware of clipping behaviors being at least partially different.
1

User is offline   NY00123 

#363

So, I'm behind Blast Radius' first 7 levels as of yesterday. It's a solo play-through using NetDuke32. Since NetDuke32 v1.2.1 and earlier versions don't have functional game saving, I've used a modified version. Hopefully, behaviors should mostly match v1.2.1 otherwise.

Possible bugs and differences between EDuke32 and NetDuke32 are listed further in this post.

Knowingly, this might not be a total conversion replacing all assets; You still control Duke in maps with (mostly) familiar monsters and graphics, after all. But it often feels different from stock maps that I recall, even if inspirations may be found at times.

One thing should be clear. If anyone wants to give Blast Radius a try, especially if you feel like time is limited and you hope to get through it quickly - Well, there might be a way (like speed-run shortcuts), but expect full or even medium-sized play-throughs to take a while. Same when not having earlier familiarity with the maps in general. Level 5 might seem closer in size to certain stock maps, but the other levels completed so far have more for exploration.

Spoiler


So far, I've found all secret areas/sectors in the levels. I know that it's not strictly necessarily, and it might be better for the experience to skip what's missing (often not that much at some point) and continue to the following level, but I've still done so for now. Been close to skipping secrets in a few levels, though, namely 1, 3 and 6; I think that I may also add 7.

Spoiler


Let's finish with reports of differences between EDuke32 and NetDuke32 and more general issues:
Spoiler

2

User is online   ck3D 

#364

I really appreciate all the feedback and information. Yes ideally I should have tested the multiplayer aspect of the episode prior to release, like I've probably said before in reality I'm only so familiar with the current practice of the activity (all I know about it is from information you've been sharing and then some more I've collected or pieced together), even to this day I've never found the focus to sit and concentrate on NetDuke past just downloading it. So by assuming multiplayer compatibility it is to be understood the maps have DM and coop friendly design with all the technical and practical essentials in place, but otherwise that aspect is essentially untested for now and I hope to be able to give it due attention in the future. I'll probably be going back to all your reports a lot then.

There are a couple of issues it's possible using an alternative/outdated EDuke branch might introduce into your playthrough I'll just mention now to save you the time,

- level 8, level 15 (secret 2) and to a lesser extent 14 (secret 1) have too many visible walls in one bunch on screen for some older versions of EDuke not to bug out or break, depending on build or even settings e.g.. renderer that might cause light to game breaking bugs (ranging from minor HOM to consistently reproducible crashes). This was fixed by TerminX in late 2023 by what I understand was restructuring some kind of wall ratio (number of available bunches for TROR also got bumped as a consequence which I know many have been appreciating), but had been problematic for a while,

- level 10 went through a phase where for a little while it would crash whenever a certain event was triggered and upon examination Hendricks fixed it (EDuke builds of the time period were rejecting one specific wall operation the map did). I suspect you might not run into this one though as it was short-lived and introduced post BR release (that I'm aware of), which I imagine is later than the EDuke NetDuke derivates from.

If you run into the first type of issue(s) might get quite frustrating for you depending on how hard things hit, but I suspect mostly level 8 risks breaking and if that's the case it still should be possible to make a run for the exit, or the map should be OK to skip altogether. It's one of the levels in the pack I find the most intriguing/interesting but it's also purely action-based in a sense the next maps won't run out of.

A certain era of old EDuke builds also has a lower limit for MAXSPRITESONSCREEN that might or might not introduce sprite display issues in a few of the maps.

Really appreciate reading about your thorough progress and I'm glad you pointed out this similarity between levels 6 and 7, you are very correct they basically run on the same trope just in a different style. Which I think works back to back as both levels are situated in European regions that really aren't so distant from one another and so it aligns the aliens would have permeated that chunk of the planet the same way, recognizing and corrupting the foundations and history of the places. Fun fact is, my original plan for level 6 was completely different at first. I basically wanted a completely straight, linear level which would have been literally one long road and then tons of locales that would have punctuated it every now and then on the sides, starting with the amphitheater. But then I got super caught up in recreating that part of the city, and in all the sector over sector possibilities it allowed (church tower stack of spaces is representative proof of the fun I had experimenting there) and next thing I knew the plans morphed into a 50/50 under/above ground map based around that setpiece completely, since it had turned out to be grounds for a half/half type of level I had been wanting to try making for a long time but had never found the perfect settings for. Level 7 actually predates the makings of level 6 by a couple of years (IIRC) and it really was an attempt at just that concept, with the purple lava pit in the catacombs matching the space for the fountain above ground, but it's a lot more timid and not clear there, while as a positive consequence the level gets to spread out a bit more and showcase different things. Anyway, that explains why the road in level 6 is relatively long, I ended up integrating it into the rest of the game space just like that but originally it was meant to keep going and going.

I'll take a look at everything you reported under your last spoiler tag for my next update of the pack, especially something like the tombstone softlock should be prevented. The Pig Tanks being smaller before they see you sometimes thing doesn't really surprise me, no event outside the actor code is checking for their size at map load as of now because for the longest time with them I relied on in-map consistency without realizing an existing discrepancy with the code, but I also want to address that. The boss freeze rays being large but mostly intangible I'm aware are a thing too, besides replacing the projectile the behavior goes off base code which apparently results in that I've noticed but regard as an acceptable way of making those enemies more fair (episode has some applications of them where that's welcome). Enemies possibly hurting/killing themselves with their own firepower is fine (as long as it's from some kind of rebound and not instantly upon spawning the projectile), that becomes a strategy real quick.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 13 June 2024 - 07:19 PM

1

User is offline   NY00123 

#365

I think the main culprit I was aware of even before starting was the differences in clipping again. So far, there had been just a few spots more difficult to pass in NetDuke32, but I could still go through them.

I do have levels 8 and 14 behind me as of yesterday. I didn't seem to have a problem with completing them, so the aforementioned changes to EDuke32 might be outside of the game code, hence common to EDuke32 and NetDuke32; Or it's just a matter of luck.

As written earlier, I've been using a modified NetDuke32 revision - or actually - revisions, in single-player mode. Compared to version 1.2.1, these ones have an up-to-date EDuke32 engine revision (outside of NetDuke32's game code), so MAXSPRITESONSCREEN should have the increased value.

While using modified NetDuke32, I often find myself using a debug build of NetDuke32 with sanitizer checks enabled, just in case there's a problem with the custom revision. Along with other two examples, I found a buffer over-read related to removed mail actors, as coming from mail bags. While it looks like a problem in the game code, probably also in Vanilla Duke3D but reproduced as an over-read in NetDuke32 due to a change related to Z positioning of money/mail/paper actors, it could also be reproduced with EDuke32's game code: https://voidpoint.io...32/-/issues/307

Spoiler

1

User is offline   NY00123 

#366

As of yesterday, the 15 levels of Blast Radius as updated last time are behind me. I'll get to details about NetDuke32 compatibility and other points again.

Just reminding here that instead of NetDuke32 v1.2.1, I used a modified version, including also updated engine-side EDuke32 code. So at least a few problems found by ck3d earlier might be fixed in the last EDuke32 revision and modified NetDuke32, but not in NetDuke32 v1.2.1. I also commented out the EVENT_NEWGAMESCREEN handler in BR's CON code.

The most serious difference in game-side behaviors of NetDuke32, closer to Vanilla Duke3D than last EDuke32's, is probably in walks on blocking sprites floating above water/lava. While it might be possible to do so with floor-aligned sprites, that doesn't seem to be the case with wall-aligned ones (outside of the last EDuke32 revision). I've still managed to complete all levels with the modified NetDuke32, using inventory items like jetpacks if useful. I think that you may preserve these unmodified in BR for now. We'll see what's up with NetDuke32 later on.

What can I say? What a journey. I eventually found all registered secret areas/secrets. Here and there, there were instances in which I was close to giving up, usually with just 1-2 missing secrets left. A good question is why I was bothering this time, when it didn't necessarily occur in other cases (levels). It might be that with having the need to spend the time on completing the levels (including visits to optional areas), looking for missing secrets didn't necessarily seem to take as large of a share of time as for contents taking much less time to complete. It was maybe just a kind of feeling or interest in doing so, too. I might also mind less for contents replayed by me. There's further the kind of secrets to take into account. People should be familiar with walls for which no sound is played upon trying to operate any of them, say hidden locked doors. Certain secrets might be more tricky, like doors/platforms activated by touch-plates, with or without getting auto-closed.

Spoiler


Finishing with more possible bug/issue reports, usually NetDuke32-related:
Spoiler


This post has been edited by NY00123: 24 June 2024 - 11:23 AM

1

User is online   ck3D 

#367

Thanks for playing and congrats on full completion with all the secrets, I wonder how many people have done that. I also really appreciate all the very precisely detailed reports; it's precious help and motivating me to address all the map issues you've spotted at once for whenever I can get the next update to happen. All that info clearly will save me lots of time which in turn makes the idea of a general clean-up less fearsome and so more plausible in a rather imminent future, so I really do appreciate it. I'll make sure to credit you in the changelogs then.

I was hoping you'd find level 15/secret 2 (and am impressed whenever anyone does; it's relatively well-concealed, in deliberate contrast with the first secret level exit - out of level 7 - that is very evident to reward exploration on the most basic level possible, and is basically unavoidable unless one rushes straight to the normal Nukebutton as soon as they see it from afar). Level 15 has some of my favorite atmosphere, soundscape and end-of-level twist in the episode, it was a rather late addition but I feel like it has its place; I'm glad you found it.

For now I'll reply to a few specific points (so I guess spoiler status potentially applies to most things below on):

View PostNY00123, on 24 June 2024 - 11:22 AM, said:

One general question coming to mind here, is how often does one use a tool like Mapster32 to construct anything based on a real-life structure/building, only for the place to be shut down and/or removed not that long later.


That really is a good question and it is so rewarding for me to hear the maps managed to make you wonder that. Exploration of the line between fiction and reality, including the concept of temporality is key to a lot of the design choices and of the direction of the project all around, but it takes a contemplative and/or curious mind to just reach that hook and realize the episode can be read on that level; a more casual or pressed player will just consume the designs as is, which is just as fine, to me.

With the breakneck pace at which major cities in general have been developing especially since the last couple of decades of globalization and gentrification, my personal guess would be, there probably isn't that many structures or regions left standing in a state that would be comparable to their Build/Duke user map recreations/stylized crystallizations at the time (of course the odds grow as the respective level(s) get(s) older; but then there's level 6 as a deliberate counterpoint). I always found it interesting how the medium could be used to suggest representations of real cities/landmarks and absorb their essence as anchored into a given point in time, in a more uncertain and uncanny way than most others i.e.. photography and its supposed fidelity. At this point I like to play with it, hence level 2 incorporating architecture that's in fact been razed and replaced throughout the 2000's and so juxtaposing current and outdated reality and/or lack thereof; level 3 also does it but there it's more vague as it spends less focus on reproducing would-be exact current settings, instead referencing mostly vibes and then some iconic but bygone/reworked locales (CBGB, the Brooklyn Banks) that are more precise but always a bit out of the way, along with looser references to different eras of local pop culture staples to keep the player subconsciously skeptical of which exact form of universe they're exploring.

I remember briefly researching the Tampere, Finland locations that TamDuke by pmw/kk4 recreated a while back, not so long ago and while I could find most of the areas on Google maps I seemed to notice quite a lot of them had budged at least a little in reality already, when it wasn't more drastic changes. Out of all real-world recreations I've personally made throughout the decades of releasing such levels doing that, there seems to be the consensus that those spaces are a lot more dynamic and saturated now than they were back when the respective maps were drawn. Of course, the richer regions changed the most or the fastest in whichever way the local economy dictated, but usually resulting in rather homogeneous standards all around, whereas all the more popular areas didn't change much structurally unless they comprised available terrain most every inch of has since been constructed (which sometimes suffices to rearrange the landscape entirely), or they were downright demolished.

View PostNY00123, on 24 June 2024 - 11:22 AM, said:

I found out that I often don't use laser trip bombs in campaign maps, but they had their use here; I think that at least a few people should know why.


That may be more anecdotal but I know which section you mean and I'm glad you figured out that was the intended/optimal play there. I've seen quite a few players try to rush through that part just to headbutt all the drones in succession, sometimes despite having used and seemingly analyzed what the security screen shows, and in spite of the obvious repetitive pattern from floor to floor/room to room. It's a moment I find particularly fun but that can only be experienced as such if the player cooperates.

Re: the automap easter egg, if that's the one I'm thinking of that's near the exit (at the exact crossroads between both exits in fact; the Level Lore page for level 10 designates it IIRC), it makes me happy you saw it, it may be a detail but conceptually I find it sort of makes the map.

View PostNY00123, on 24 June 2024 - 11:22 AM, said:

Level 11 was short, but I can see the change. I think it was similarly inspired by 2D games? If not, it can be seen as such.


Two games that inspired its direction are Descent and Star Fox 64/Lylat Wars which aren't 2D, but conceptually the older 2D top-down shooter genre is referenced as soon as the player switches to automap indeed. That is because at this point Duke is nearing the source of the blast and dimensions and timelines are starting to bend and overlap, also explaining why he starts hearing voices (under the form of game quotes) from the end of that level onwards. Now that I've said this paired up with knowledge of the subsequent game events should be a bit more evident who is behind those voices. It's also where and when the game loses the mask the player had been expecting from it all along, and starts morphing and rearranging its ruleset to try and block them. The whole concept of it also fundamentally is one of a dimensional breaking point with first the longest 'straight line' sector one can draw in Build then followed by endless verticality through columns of teleporters after Duke snaps out of the ship.

View PostNY00123, on 24 June 2024 - 11:22 AM, said:

Level 12 was when one may feel (at least initially) being close to the end, even more than levels 10-11. Its themed differently, but the outdoors area - at least on the mountains near the edges, I guess - partially reminded me of level 4 in terms of exploration. Regarding the access cards, interestingly, the blue one was the last to be found by me. I did open the way to it and used a nearby viewscreen, but didn't immediate get it, so I decided to further progress. I later re-used the viewscreen and then knew with greater chances where it could be, and found it.


I've said it before that one of my goals with level 12 was that it should feel like a 'negative' callback to 4; 4 has ethereal qualities in that it's seemingly endless/infinite which is (or used to be) a typical Duke 3D player's wet dream, that only goes so smoothly in practice due to the resulting intrinsic tedium (unless one chooses to skip most of it with the jetpack, which they really always are free to), but its exploration is exciting as its discovery is progressive. On the other hand, 12 is the nightmare version of that dream that is literally paved with pain, chaos and self-conscious anti-Build design to align with all of the deconstruction that's simultaneously happening. I think it is the culmination of all the events thus far (while level 13 would be closer to a general downfall then proceeding to end on resolve), where the map itself is its own boss the whole time you're on that planet.

Acquiring the blue key last seems to be common, I've noticed a lot of players tend to do that as it's easy to miss what the switch there does at first, which is fine as both ways are equally viable (getting it last actually may be optimal when speedrunning, that's what King Mamba did).

The jetpacks greatly facilitate all the platforming yes, but if it's possible to fly then it's not cheating. In fact a lot of the platforms exist mostly as base support (literally) for when the exceptional occasion arises that the player runs out of fuel, but since they really won't want that to happen since it alleviates so much then they're more tempted to keep an eye out on the gauge/items around them which in an already rather overwhelming context injects another layer of emergency and pressure.

I'll be looking into the clipping issues, especially the hard-to-enter cracks or secret compartments that squish the player shouldn't be happening at least in most of those cases for instance so it must be a simple collision and so sector dimension thing I should just adjust. It's funny I never caught a lot of that stuff.

The new Recons (for now still) borrow a lot from the original sentry drone code and so that's why they can clip into sloped floors or ceilings at times, it's probably first wall-dependent where/when they do, but the base drones also can do that. I don't remember studying that part of their code right now but while playing behaves like they only check for proper 'valid' z when changing/refreshing sectnum instead of considering the actual allocated game space at all times when computing movement, so they remain fixated on checking for the same set range of values until they leave the sector again, and then they suddenly just snap back onto game space from out of bounds with the next sector. It's not very apparent in the base game where slopes aren't so extreme.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 24 June 2024 - 05:10 PM

1

User is offline   Aleks 

#368

View Postck3D, on 24 June 2024 - 02:43 PM, said:

That really is a good question and it is so rewarding for me to hear the maps managed to make you wonder that. Exploration of the line between fiction and reality, including the concept of temporality is key to a lot of the design choices and of the direction of the project all around, but it takes a contemplative and/or curious mind to just reach that hook and realize the episode can be read on that level; a more casual or pressed player will just consume the designs as is, which is just as fine, to me.

With the breakneck pace at which major cities in general have been developing especially since the last couple of decades of globalization and gentrification, my personal guess would be, there probably isn't that many structures or regions left standing in a state that would be comparable to their Build/Duke user map recreations/stylized crystallizations at the time (of course the odds grow as the respective level(s) get(s) older; but then there's level 6 as a deliberate counterpoint). I always found it interesting how the medium could be used to suggest representations of real cities/landmarks and absorb their essence as anchored into a given point in time, in a more uncertain and uncanny way than most others i.e.. photography and its supposed fidelity. At this point I like to play with it, hence level 2 incorporating architecture that's in fact been razed and replaced throughout the 2000's and so juxtaposing current and outdated reality and/or lack thereof; level 3 also does it but there it's more vague as it spends less focus on reproducing would-be exact current settings, instead referencing mostly vibes and then some iconic but bygone/reworked locales (CBGB, the Brooklyn Banks) that are more precise but always a bit out of the way, along with looser references to different eras of local pop culture staples to keep the player subconsciously skeptical of which exact form of universe they're exploring.

I remember briefly researching the Tampere, Finland locations that TamDuke by pmw/kk4 recreated a while back, not so long ago and while I could find most of the areas on Google maps I seemed to notice quite a lot of them had budged at least a little in reality already, when it wasn't more drastic changes. Out of all real-world recreations I've personally made throughout the decades of releasing such levels doing that, there seems to be the consensus that those spaces are a lot more dynamic and saturated now than they were back when the respective maps were drawn. Of course, the richer regions changed the most or the fastest in whichever way the local economy dictated, but usually resulting in rather homogeneous standards all around, whereas all the more popular areas didn't change much structurally unless they comprised available terrain most every inch of has since been constructed (which sometimes suffices to rearrange the landscape entirely), or they were downright demolished.

Gotta chime in here with Azneer 1.3 and the building it recreates being already at the demolition stage back when the map was created IIRC and now being completely erased... Which is more interesting since the map is from 1996. I remember you finding the real building some years ago when we discussed the map (actually I read through your post just waiting where you mention Azneer), but kinda funny to thing that the map might potentially be the last actual remainder of the building closest to a "virtual tour".
1

User is online   ck3D 

#369

View PostAleks, on 24 June 2024 - 11:38 PM, said:

Gotta chime in here with Azneer 1.3 and the building it recreates being already at the demolition stage back when the map was created IIRC and now being completely erased... Which is more interesting since the map is from 1996. I remember you finding the real building some years ago when we discussed the map (actually I read through your post just waiting where you mention Azneer), but kinda funny to thing that the map might potentially be the last actual remainder of the building closest to a "virtual tour".


Yeah I didn't mention Azneer because as you've said I already did that ages ago but you're right, that one is interesting and one of the earliest instances I can think of. I do remember the building didn't stay up for long at all after the author made the map but I have no idea whether that already had been announced at the time and so how much of the preservation effort is conscious. I wonder how easy the author would be to track down now. Would be such creeper questions to contact them with too. 'I'd like to ask you about your college campus recreation in a popular first person shooter that you made twenty-eight years ago, where half the floors were flooded and whatnot.'

High Treason's Skool Tour probably deserves a mention then too as far as modern user maps are concerned, or Maarten's Woudrichem War.

Out of my own work and real locales I can think of right now, status of most locations around the world as far as I last know is:

- Clerey20.map - used to be just those couple of houses bordering open fields, nearly three decades later all the fields are gone and the terrain was constructed with more houses and then apartment complexes;
- NDA20.map - incredibly enough didn't budge one bit, which I do find pretty funny as it is based on a conservative catholic school campus;
- CGR20.map - already was an industrial area, so stayed the same except all the available land around the cinema (which was barren at the time) has since been constructed;
- TOURS.map - popular area with projects, was superficially refreshed once or twice but really didn't budge, funnily enough only the features of the outdoor playgrounds have changed (I'd assume to match security norms);
- Overtime - suburban-feeling area at the border of the city and out of sight from tourism, absolutely didn't budge but also completely decayed due to zero municipal attention; the office Duke starts in used to be part of a secondary municipal office actually (sports infrastructure department, in real life the level is right next to Metropolitan Mayhem's Stadium Despair) that has since been completely relocated;
- AC1 - same as above; out of sight so is completely ignored and just decays;
- AC2 - same as above except some of the available land has seen a dozen apartment buildings with clashing generic architecture pop up, and some of the existing ones (right side from player position at map start) have been demolished due to being critically full of asbestos, only to be replaced with similar ones with an extra layer of ''defensive'' spiked fencing and gates (because of course, clearly it must have been outsiders who originally had sneaked in all the asbestos);
- AC3 - part of downtown so exposed to tourists although slightly out of the way, architecture is respected so it was preserved, but still suffers from miserable attention and progressively decays; that one plaza is especially interesting in how it used to be a very frequented hangout thirty years ago but is now usually deserted by most; while nothing has been announced I'm predicting this will be one of the next places around the city that will be given a major facelift sometime within the next decade or two which I'd imagine would preserve just the buildings;
- ACX is interesting too because it already was a mash-up of eras of the same city (over a fifteen year period) and so not just locations, the Poulain chocolate factory already had been closed for a decade prior to building the map (hence why it's being squatted in the level), its facade has been preserved, most other parts demolished and it's since been turned into a university; the abandoned warehouses were wiped soon after the map released and the terrain rebuilt by new investors; the train station itself didn't budge much, although the neighborhood around it was rebuilt completely (literally all of the urban terrain within a mile radius was erased and replaced); the supermarket is in the same popular area as the warehouses (their placement are respected in the map, while the rest is looser) and it's hard to say whether it's changed or not as it's still essentially the same but must have changed hands, facades and I think even burned down a couple of times; the block of projects that is part of the scenery completely opposite to the building that's on fire was an emblematic one of an inner neighborhood in the 90's that was razed in 2013 and so long gone before the map was made;
- Downtown Ride/Happy Hangover/Anorak City structurally still are the same because downtown and the more or less historical architecture is popular with tourists, but rather remarkable care has been taken to rebuild everything pavement and clean up all the surfaces in an effort that would be practical if it also weren't one of gentrification seeing all the original population (residents and shop owners) progressively get weeded out as just a few entities have been going around privatizing all the space to themselves; music store in Anorak City had already been gone for about a decade since I made the map (thus is even more ancient now), marking for a strange period in this city where unless you pirated the songs or had access to mail order there were a couple of years where there literally was no more specialized place than basic supermarkets, and just one annual records fair where one could just find new music.

There's more but don't wait for it.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 25 June 2024 - 07:56 AM

2

User is offline   NY00123 

#370

View PostNY00123, on 24 June 2024 - 11:22 AM, said:

I eventually found all registered secret areas/secrets.

To clarify, there's a small typo here. I have meant to write secret areas/sectors. Contents should have the same intended meaning otherwise.

View Postck3D, on 24 June 2024 - 02:43 PM, said:

That really is a good question and it is so rewarding for me to hear the maps managed to make you wonder that.

Well, that occurred after checking online about the one building in level 9. But what Aleks and you have added to the topic should make sense. A good question is how often do older structures that aren't for preservation stay, compared to open areas having more constructions.

There's also the technological aspect. It's no surprise that older games, as well as newer ones aiming to share styles with them, might make use of older technology in-game. Good examples coming to mind are turntables, CRT displays, and as eventually turned out, also personal digital assistants (PDAs). Another one is the kind of lighting used on buildings, say neon signs (that don't use LEDs). But another example is street lighting. I don't know how common it is for maps of games like Duke3D, but I may actually share occurrences in two maps of mine. "NY'S RACE - 15th Anniversary Edition" (along with variations like NYSRaceR3.map) and Pyratel make use of yellow/amber-colored street lights. White-colored street lights are further present in the maps, but current emphasis is on the amber ones. While there are still enough areas using HPS street lights with such light colors as of writing this, LED street lighting had already had early uses about 20 years ago. I think that amber-colored LED street lights are much less commonly used.

Spoiler

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I'll be looking into the clipping issues, especially the hard-to-enter cracks or secret compartments that squish the player shouldn't be happening at least in most of those cases for instance so it must be a simple collision and so sector dimension thing I should just adjust. It's funny I never caught a lot of that stuff.

Well, if it's about the ones specific to NetDuke32, you wouldn't reproduce them in EDuke32 (at least not as easily). I'm still not sure about the wall-aligned sprites floating over lava. For now they may be left as-is; Jetpacks and other inventory items are there, with more of them being available in multiplayer games in case they're respawning.
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User is offline   Aleks 

#371

View PostNY00123, on 27 June 2024 - 10:20 AM, said:

There's also the technological aspect. It's no surprise that older games, as well as newer ones aiming to share styles with them, might make use of older technology in-game. Good examples coming to mind are turntables, CRT displays, and as eventually turned out, also personal digital assistants (PDAs). Another one is the kind of lighting used on buildings, say neon signs (that don't use LEDs). But another example is street lighting. I don't know how common it is for maps of games like Duke3D, but I may actually share occurrences in two maps of mine. "NY'S RACE - 15th Anniversary Edition" (along with variations like NYSRaceR3.map) and Pyratel make use of yellow/amber-colored street lights. White-colored street lights are further present in the maps, but current emphasis is on the amber ones. While there are still enough areas using HPS street lights with such light colors as of writing this, LED street lighting had already had early uses about 20 years ago. I think that amber-colored LED street lights are much less commonly used.

That's something I really like about old sci-fi movies/series, mostly Star Trek considering how it's running for over 50 years and so had to adapt - with people travelling through space having monochrome monitors on primitive computers, "e-books" that each contain only 1 single item, "old school" communicators (I like how that's been retrofitted in Strange New Worlds as being cool and "vintage" looking on purpose) etc. Dune smartly avoided this trap with its lore on how the computers and the development of such technologies were pretty much banned centuries ago, while Lem had some stupidly accurate predictions of some of the devices for his time (e.g. he pretty much described the mentioned e-book in detail in one of his books long before such technology was actually conceived).

Sorry for the offtopic!
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