[brullov]

I started this discussion on the Discord server, but I think it deserves a separate topic here as well.

I was thinking about melee variations of the original Duke Nukem 3D enemies. Pig cop with a bat comes first to my mind (it's pretty obvious). What about other enemies? Little kamikaze-octos which run to you and explode?

[NNC]

Well, episode 3 could have added the mini overlord and the organtic, and episode 4 could have added the scorpion tank and mini cyclops. That would have been a decent upgrade on the current roster. With the lamedrone and lamebrain as extras. IMHO pigcops are fine from close range, but they should opt for an explosive from a distance by colour. Actually Blast Radius will be a nice response to this issue.

[Fantinaikos]

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Pig cop with a bat comes first to my mind

https://forums.duke4...prite-variants/

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Little kamikaze-octos which run to you and explode?

That place seems already taken.

[Danukem]

Enforcers could have a version where they retain both arms (no chaingun) but they run super fast and have a nasty bite.

Lizard trooper (LIZTROOP) could have an armored version with way more health and have an electric stun baton. Essentially a riot control variant.

Riot pigcop sprites already exist and have been coded in various mods.

I think with Octabrains, a melee version should use the tentacles which pull you into its bite and the tentacles should wrap around you in the HUD, kind of like slimer but you have to struggle way more to get out of it.

Fat commanders should always retain a ranged attack imo, but their melee can be better. In one version I have done they fly towards you like a frisbee while spinning around, making it much harder to avoid.

[OpenMaw]

Danukem, on 25 January 2023 - 01:02 PM, said:

Enforcers could have a version where they retain both arms (no chaingun) but they run super fast and have a nasty bite.

The flame thrower enforcers would be one solid alternative as well.

Danukem, on 25 January 2023 - 01:02 PM, said:

Lizard trooper (LIZTROOP) could have an armored version with way more health and have an electric stun baton. Essentially a riot control variant.

Similar to the troopers in Duke Plus that run around making Skaarj noises and being absolutely terrifying.

Danukem, on 25 January 2023 - 01:02 PM, said:

I think with Octabrains, a melee version should use the tentacles which pull you into its bite and the tentacles should wrap around you in the HUD, kind of like slimer but you have to struggle way more to get out of it.

I was almost thinking of the Parasite dog-guys from Quake 2 that grab you and pull you in while draining your health.

[brullov]

@The Watchtower

TBH, mini-boss versions sound like the laziest approach. They are just resized and got less health, no new behavior pattern. But still something, heh.

@Fantinaikos

I remember this pig cop edit! Also great hint about the drones, I forgot those exist, haha. I forgot to add that those little octos aren't flying.

@Danukem

Love the LIZTROOP idea, reminds me of Half-Life 2.

[ck3D]

I made a sector one in TitEBar.map that you can fight away, but a L.A.R.D. chopper I think could work as a legit sprite-based enemy and perhaps miniboss variant of the RPV, or any enemy vehicle really (but again, a lot is possible in those regards with just sectors and the base assets already if you want to go there). I forgot which TC that was (must have been a classic one too, maybe The Gate?), but recently I ran into footage of a mod with not just the Scorpion Tank but the Pig Cop had been replaced with an Enforcer and that enemy was used in lunar levels, thought that was a really nice touch - way cooler than just coding the default Scorpion Tank. I think the less one strays away from the base enemies the better, which also means emphasizing on, and developing around their existing features (in-game, thematical or canonical) if one is trying to expand upon a popular, familiar universe. It's so easy with Duke enemies too, once you open that door, because they're so characteristic.

The Octabrain tentacle idea also is sweet - could see that paired up with electrical discharges à la Queen.

[gibfrag]

Is this topic about enemy variations in general or just melee focused ones?

I guess my question as far as this concept goes in line with the combat of the game.. why would the Pig Cops waste time trying to beat someone to death when they can just shoot them? Perhaps if instead of dying they have a chance of regaining their health into a second phase of the enemy with faster movement speed, their shotgun falls out of their hands, and they begin chasing after Duke with a police baton, taser, pepper spray, or even a pistol could be cool, but to default to that weapon? That would make them too easy in my opinion, but as a surprise counter attack, it could work really well.

Where this could work better, would be when Duke is unarmed, but Duke will always have the advantage against a melee opponent if he is armed. A riot shield could help with this, but I think if a Pig had a riot shield they would be carrying some sort of grenade launcher (could be explosive, rubber, gas, or even smoke grenades) for ranged attacks and just use the shield as melee and defense.

[Gargoyle]

Slimer variation: spider that sticks on similarly to the ones encountered in Duke2. To get rid of it, player must turn back and forth / hit space repeatedly. Not nearly as relentless as Blood's choking hand.

[ck3D]

DNSKILL5, on 25 January 2023 - 03:27 PM, said:

Is this topic about enemy variations in general or just melee focused ones?

The confusion is in part my bad, I was tired last night upon reading the OP and didn't grasp the specific question properly.

I struggle a bit to see what could be done out of the Assault Trooper, its most prominent 'scary' features are its eyes and teeth but otherwise it's a rather pedestrian enemy and so easy to apply normal human attributes to, which doesn't help here. So might as well focus on its equipment, I've heard of mods that would give a new variant a 'kamikaze' mode when low on health or after faking dying, where they would run towards the player then blow themselves up, which sounds logical (could be self-destructing their jetpack).

Enforcer I reckon could just whack the player with its chaingun arm like uppercuts that would deal a lot of damage at fairly sparse intervals (and maybe literally cause WACKPLAYER), it has a 'ducking' pose and so that probably shouldn't require new art. Could also be a bite but then it should have some kind of lasting toxic effect on the player for a while (HURTRAIL type of damage maybe for 5, 10 seconds that the Steroids could cure), at least I know I'd prefer an extension of its existing toxic spit abilities over a more anonymous bite.

[brullov]

ck3D, on 26 January 2023 - 07:17 AM, said:

I struggle a bit to see what could be done out of the Assault Trooper, its most prominent 'scary' features are its eyes and teeth but otherwise it's a rather pedestrian enemy and so easy to apply normal human attributes to, which doesn't help here. So might as well focus on its equipment, I've heard of mods that would give a new variant a 'kamikaze' mode when low on health or after faking dying, where they would run towards the player then blow themselves up, which sounds logical (could be self-destructing their jetpack).

This is nice! You can use a teleport animation frame for this (he is pressing a button on his hand).