[Phredreeke]

Thought I'd post and ask what you all think on said issue. Please be respectful

[Danukem]

My answer isn't represented in the poll options so I didn't vote.

[Ninety-Six]

Danukem, on 17 November 2022 - 07:51 PM, said:

My answer isn't represented in the poll options so I didn't vote.

I just ended up picking the one that was closest.

[DNSKILL5]

[Sangman]

Nice troll poll

[Danukem]

Ninety-Six, on 18 November 2022 - 02:05 AM, said:

I just ended up picking the one that was closest.

I suspect you interpreted the question like this:

"If I ran a women's sports league, would I allow trans-women to participate in it?"

Do you see the difference?

I'm a fan of MMA, and I have a pretty good idea of what criteria I would use in selecting which athletes to offer contracts to in a women's division if that was my job. But that doesn't mean those standards should be imposed on anyone else. If one promotion wants to pit trans women against cisgender women, then why not? The participants voluntarily signed the contracts. No one is being forced to participate or forced to watch. Remember, the early UFCs didn't even have weight classes so don't tell me it should be outlawed because it's too dangerous. Likewise, if another promotion wants to exclude trans women from its women's division, then why not? Participating in a sports promotion isn't a right. Full stop. As an aside, I actually think there are some compelling possible matchups between trans women and cis women that could be very competitive (or in some cases not competitive but still entertaining, and that's in both directions).

There is a real problem though which is prompting the question to be asked...but I think it's a different problem than what the framing of the poll suggests. And no, I don't want to elaborate at this time.

[Mark]

My answer isn't represented in the poll options so I didn't vote. My answer is "no"

[Forge]

Danukem, on 18 November 2022 - 03:30 AM, said:

"If I ran a women's sports league, would I allow trans-women to participate in it?"

Do you see the difference?

what about highschool and college sports where the opportunities are scholarships, grants, and chances to get noticed and move on to professional leagues or olympic team positions that are only available to women?
Your letting biological males take away opportunities from biological females, and that's discrimination.

equity is a trash marxist standard that promotes discrimination based on nefarious judgment calls.
equality works fine. That's why you can have separate bathrooms that provide equal function.

An aircraft carrier can identify as a sailboat. Sure. Have at it. Enjoy yourself.
But it shouldn't be competing in regalias.

[Radar]

I voted yes for all who identify as a woman. Trans men cannot compete athletically with real men, but trans women dominate and ruin women's sports. Women wanted this.

[Forge]

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 10:51 AM, said:

Women wanted this.

i would have to partially disagree on this point.
It also has to do with cowardly sports directors and committees that are afraid of backlash by enforcing standards across biological lines instead of ideologies.
Their collective asses are comfy behind their desk, and they don't like making real decisions that may conflict with the 'group that nobody is allowed to criticize'

[Radar]

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 11:15 AM, said:

i would have to partially disagree on this point.
It also has to do with cowardly sports directors and committees that are afraid of backlash by enforcing standards across biological lines instead of ideologies.
Their collective asses are comfy behind their desk, and they don't like making real decisions that may conflict with the 'group that nobody is allowed to criticize'

Women are the reason this is a prevalent ideology - the reason those sport directors relax behind their desks and make poor decisions as long as it makes their jobs easier.

And just to be clear, the point here isn't to lament that poisonous left-wing ideologies have overtaken the West as a result of allowing women to vote (which is true, but not the point of this thread, and could be discussed in any of the other dozens of political threads that are all about the same thing at this point), but rather the fact that when women's own institutions are ruined by ideologies they enabled, that gets a yawn from me.

[Forge]

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 12:02 PM, said:

Women are the reason this is a prevalent ideology

*some
and I would say it's the ones who are afraid to speak out, when they shouldn't be

there are also female athletes and female rights organizations that have pushed back on the equity ideology because they have enough self-awareness to realize that biological females are at a disadvantage and are having opportunities stripped away from them.

[Radar]

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 12:58 PM, said:

*some

Most.

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 12:58 PM, said:

female rights organizations that have pushed back

Post examples?

[Danukem]

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 09:50 AM, said:

what about highschool and college sports where the opportunities are scholarships, grants, and chances to get noticed and move on to professional leagues or olympic team positions that are only available to women?

Now you are getting closer to the actual problem I alluded to. But nope, I won't get dragged into it further. I'm just going to point out that the poll question would have to be more specific for any of the answers to make sense (to me).

[jkas789]

Fuck it. I’m going in raw. Outside a magical place like on the internet where biology is a patriarchal imposition and everyone is the same, then no, trans women should not be allowed in sports.

Also we all know that women sports are mostly trash. Look at me in the eyes and tell me seriously, without laughing that you watch the female leagues for both soccer and basketball.

EDIT: Well let me correct that. Most sports where the the biological differences are so evidently disparate to their male counterparts are boring to watch. High level gymnastics on the other hand for example and other contact sports that benefit from the low gravity center and high flexibility of the female body are more interesting, if nothing else because they are more impressive of a physical feat.

[Forge]

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 01:11 PM, said:

Most.

most are silent and too afraid to give an opinion, and that's why it is the way it is

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 01:11 PM, said:

Post examples?

Save Women’s Sports
Concerned Women for America
Champion Women

there are more, but you can look them up just as easily as I can

jkas789, on 18 November 2022 - 02:24 PM, said:

Look at me in the eyes and tell me seriously, without laughing that you watch the female leagues for both soccer and basketball.

I used to (read - used to) prefer women's olympic soccer over men's.
before i got disenfranchised with the whole olympic scene and stopped watching it completely

[Radar]

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 02:34 PM, said:

most are silent and too afraid to give an opinion, and that's why it is the way it is

The majority of American women are left-leaning and support leftist politics. Nobody denies this.

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 02:34 PM, said:

Save Women’s Sports
Concerned Women for America
Champion Women

there are more, but you can look them up just as easily as I can

My point was there is no major opposition to [REDACTED] ideology that isn't closely associated with the right-wing (men).

[Phredreeke]

> the T-slur

No no, Radar, you were doing so well.

[Forge]

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 02:48 PM, said:

My point was there is no major opposition to tranny ideology that isn't closely associated with the right-wing (men).

http://championwomen...pdated-2022.pdf

signatures on the petition (starting page 3)

i'm neither confirming, denying, nor contradicting your post - because I haven't screened each and every signature to see who they are - but there's the bulk of the people who bother who speak up.



A tranny is a crossdresser, not a transexual
(at least that's how it was defined from the 70s thru the early 2000's. I don't know what the mindbenders and word-shifters have warped to these days)

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 02:48 PM, said:

The majority of American women are left-leaning and support leftist politics. Nobody denies this.

and this is about as irrelevant as you can get. Since the majority of american women don't bother to get involved in these matters.
Unless you can show me unbiased neutral polls and petitions that show otherwise.

[Radar]

My point is there is no "silent majority" in play here. Women clearly support this.

[Forge]

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 03:01 PM, said:

Women clearly support this.

*some

[Phredreeke]

J.K. Rowling. The opposition to trans ideology in the UK is largely left-wing

[Radar]

Need to remember to quote you because you keep editing your posts after people respond. Seriously dude, stop doing that.

Phredreeke, on 18 November 2022 - 02:51 PM, said:

> the T-slur

No no, Radar, you were doing so well.

Redacted, because this forum sucks.

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 02:52 PM, said:

and this is about as irrelevant as you can get. Since the majority of american women don't bother to get involved in these matters.
Unless you can show me unbiased neutral polls and petitions that show otherwise.

So, your position is that women vote overwhelmingly left-wing, yet have no opinion on LGBT issues?

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 03:06 PM, said:

*some

So, your position is that the majority of American women are against LGBT issues, just silent about it? And this never reflects in their voting patterns either? Ok, good luck with your fanfic headcanon of reality.

[Phredreeke]

I've been told that it's unmarried women who are overwhelmingly left-wing, while married women are overall more conservative. Plus I'm sure there are a whole bunch of American women who don't care either way on trans issues but are very adamant about abortion rights being preserved

[Forge]

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 03:22 PM, said:

So, your position is that women vote overwhelmingly left-wing, yet have no opinion on LGBT issues?

one does not automatically lead to the other. Women vote overwhelmingly democratic because democratic policies are the primary security blanket for women. Progressive ideology isn't their primary concern. Self preservation is. Having a "psuedo-care taker" while claiming not to need a man is another one of their concerns.
Supporting people that identify as a woman who want to throw baseballs at other women isn't a top priority for the majority.
Unless you can show otherwise.
which I asked for and you waffled on once already.

Radar, on 18 November 2022 - 03:22 PM, said:

So, your position is that the majority of American women are against LGBT issues, just silent about it? And this never reflects in their voting patterns either? Ok, good luck with your fanfic headcanon of reality.

the majority of women only care about taking care of themselves. If your head can't wrap around the fact that the party that provides women their security blanket also champions issues the majority of them don't care about, that's on you. Convolute to cope works for some people.

[Radar]

Phredreeke, on 18 November 2022 - 03:31 PM, said:

I've been told that it's unmarried women who are overwhelmingly left-wing, while married women are overall more conservative. Plus I'm sure there are a whole bunch of American women who don't care either way on trans issues but are very adamant about abortion rights being preserved

This is probably true. I can't find the stats off-hand right now, but in this year's election, married women voted for Republicans in the + single digits somewhere, which is not a substantial lead, but technically a majority. Unmarried women on the other hand, went +30 or +40 for Dems. And this is only going to get worse as less and less youth get married. The death of marriage is killing America.

[Phredreeke]

See... This is why Republicans running against gay marriage for the last 20 (?) years was a mistake.

[Radar]

Forge, on 18 November 2022 - 03:41 PM, said:

one does not automatically lead to the other. Women vote overwhelmingly democratic because democratic policies are the primary security blanket for women. Progressive ideology isn't their primary concern. Self preservation is. Having a "psuedo-care taker" while claiming not to need a man is another one of their concerns.
Supporting people that identify as a woman who want to throw baseballs at other women isn't a top priority for the majority.
Unless you can show otherwise.
which I asked for and you waffled on once already.

the majority of women only care about taking care of themselves. If your head can't wrap around the fact that the party that provides women their security blanket also champions issues the majority of them don't care about, that's on you. Convolute to cope works for some people.

I agree that security is the #1 issue for women at the polls. But I'm hard-pressed to believe there's anyone left in America who doesn't have an opinion on LGBT issues in [the current year], and that women of all people would have their ideologies split in favor of government handouts and abortion access, but against LGBT issues. Pipe dream.

[Phredreeke]

Let's say one party ran for legalised full auto rifles and free sex changes, and the other ran on banning all guns, and conversion therapy. Which party would you be voting for?

[Outtagum]

Phredreeke, on 18 November 2022 - 04:06 PM, said:

Let's say one party ran for legalised full auto rifles and free sex changes, and the other ran on banning all guns, and conversion therapy. Which party would you be voting for?

Libertarian.