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TROR tutorial thread

User is offline   Mark 

#61

By "concave" angled walls, do you mean what used to be called TROR scissoring? I ask because I use that feature in my projects and it got broken a while back and was never fixed. it would be great if there was a workaround.
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User is offline   Aleks 

#62

 Mark, on 28 January 2024 - 07:05 PM, said:

By "concave" angled walls, do you mean what used to be called TROR scissoring? I ask because I use that feature in my projects and it got broken a while back and was never fixed. it would be great if there was a workaround.

I've never been sure what "TROR scissoring" was referring to, to be honest. Here's a mockup example of what I mean, done in 5 minutes on my work laptop:
Here we see the rendering glitch when looking at the concave wall from an angle where the wall in front of it "obscures" it (pal 6 part of the wall):
Attached Image: capt0000.png

Here's a fixed version:
Attached Image: capt0002.png

Here's the differences in the 2D setups - note that each of the sectors was extended separately. This creates white walls between them at first and you have to either click/move one of the vertices or select and deselect all of these sectors to turn these walls red so they don't render.
Attached Image: capt0003.png

This setup is not ideal and might require some extra tinkering depending on the overall layout of the map, how "concave" this will get and all, but that's the general idea. Note: all the screens were taken in Polymost renderer.

This post has been edited by Aleks: 29 January 2024 - 01:26 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

#63

OK. My TROR scissoring issue is something different and the only "fix" is still to use older eduke version. <_<
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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#64

 Mark, on 29 January 2024 - 06:13 AM, said:

OK. My TROR scissoring issue is something different and the only "fix" is still to use older eduke version. <_<


Scissoring is something I came up with while talking with Micky C years ago about getting extra TROR space without extending the whole parent sector by sloping the TROR layer, then he named it that way. I just used the technique in a map I'm doing at the moment and I see no noticeable bugs, I'm using Eduke from a month ago more or less. What your problem is?

Edit: @Alex. This is really helpful.

This post has been edited by Mike Norvak: 29 January 2024 - 06:20 PM

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#65

Double post bug...

This post has been edited by Mike Norvak: 29 January 2024 - 03:18 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

#66

In Polymer and I don't remember if it happened in Polymost too. I reported it way back in the summer of 22. Here is the screenshot from that thread. On the left is how it looked in the older eduke. On the right the newer version at that time. When outside looking in the interior just disappears and you see a parallaxed floor. once inside it displays fine but when inside looking out, the tror border is glitched. In Mapster its fine, just eduke screwed up.

Since then I kept testing new versions when they came out and it was never addressed.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: scissoring glitch.jpg


This post has been edited by Mark: 29 January 2024 - 04:21 PM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#67

going out on a limb here; they aren't going to address it because you are the only one bringing it up, they only have one screen shot to go by - which can be caused by numerous mapping construction errors, they don't care about polymer since it's pretty much dead in the water, and they probably can't reproduce it, nor do they want to go back 2 years worth of snapshots to try to reproduce it because the change most likely benefits their commercial build game/ambitions to make a one-size-fits-all build engine port.
They're going to say you need to tear it down and reconstruct it in a current snapshot & to stop using ancient polymer technology.
(tl;dr - it's your fault, even though it was working fine before)

This post has been edited by Forge: 29 January 2024 - 04:51 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

#68

It happens in more than one place, one map, one project. I brought it up multiple times ever since summer of 2022. IIRC I even bisected to find where the glitch started. Thats how I was able to determine the newest revision I can use in my projects that have scissoring. I no longer have expectations for any of the many bugs I have discovered and reported to be fixed. I just gave up testing new revisions in my projects and just stay with old versions. It sucks but thats just the way it goes. I can get by.

I just played Toiletduck64's latest release built with recent revision. Uses lots of tror and scissoring and its screwed up too. Plays fine in older version.

This post has been edited by Mark: 29 January 2024 - 04:56 PM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#69

90% chance it's because of polymer and has absolutely nothing to do with the way you built your map.
iirc, Tx or one of the other devs was dabbling with that renderer a few years ago & they probably committed a change that broke the way it works with tror

This post has been edited by Forge: 29 January 2024 - 04:57 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

#70

Tx had said the reason all the recently introduced bugs won't be addressed is because its not worth putting bandaids on it if another totally revamped renderer comes out later. And since I have no reason to believe that will ever happenI interpret that as "tough luck charlie". ;)
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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#71

Well, TROR scissoring is not officially supported as far as I know and it has always been just a work-around. I wonder why it still works on my end 🤔 Probably would need to get rid of the effect before it is glitchy on other's systems...
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#72

 Mike Norvak, on 29 January 2024 - 06:25 PM, said:

Well, TROR scissoring is not officially supported as far as I know and it has always been just a work-around. I wonder why it still works on my end 🤔 Probably would need to get rid of the effect before it is glitchy on other's systems...

here's micky's post with his tutorial map:
https://forums.duke4...post__p__114275

i've never used it as it seems kind of a hacky way to bypass proper construction. I'm surprised polymer ever worked properly with this method

This post has been edited by Forge: 29 January 2024 - 07:23 PM

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#73

 Forge, on 29 January 2024 - 07:19 PM, said:

here's micky's post with his tutorial map:
https://forums.duke4...post__p__114275

i've never used it as it seems kind of a hacky way to bypass proper construction. I'm surprised polymer ever worked properly with this method


As far as I remember we came with the idea one day and the next day he came up with that tutorial and the name for that, and yeah is more of a work around than other thing.

I don't know why he said he invented it though... lol

Edit: reading the thread, I my self wrote he teach me the technique, but I do remember we were chatting while coming with solutions for one specific problem I had in a map, probably my memory is failing lol.

Edit2: So it's only not working on Polymer?

This post has been edited by Mike Norvak: 29 January 2024 - 08:34 PM

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User is offline   Mark 

#74

It works fine in mapster under polymer but glitches in eduke under polymer. Last time I tested I don't remember the results under polymost

This post has been edited by Mark: 29 January 2024 - 09:30 PM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#75

 Mark, on 29 January 2024 - 09:29 PM, said:

It works fine in mapster under polymer but glitches in eduke under polymer. Last time I tested I don't remember the results under polymost

not a code-monkey, but i would guess the changes the dev pushed to optimize polymer (or whatever it was they were trying to do) only effect eduke32's performance and have almost no bearing on how it's displayed in mapster

This post has been edited by Forge: 30 January 2024 - 07:21 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

#76

I was under the impression that mapster uses eduke32 to display in 3d mode which is why I always thought it was odd the problem or lack of it is not the same in both. I'm sure there is a logical tech explanation that I wouldn't understand if I heard it. ;)

This post has been edited by Mark: 30 January 2024 - 08:09 AM

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User is offline   slacker1 

#77

Dunno if it helps any but I just tried the map from Micky's post that was linked with eduke r10345 from Aug 2023 and it glitches with all renders for me.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#78

 Mark, on 30 January 2024 - 08:08 AM, said:

I was under the impression that mapster uses eduke32 to display in 3d mode which is why I always thought it was odd the problem or lack of it is not the same in both. I'm sure there is a logical tech explanation that I wouldn't understand if I heard it. ;)

I'm not the most knowledgeable person to pontificate on this, but you can run mapster without having eduke32 present. I'm sure there's some common ground, but afaik, it's independent.

If you used that chop-shop method micky came up with in your project, then it's never going to work in any of the snapshots since the change that broke it & they'll probably never revert the change back.
I don't know what your intentions are for it so either your snapshot is froze in place - which is the norm for all older projects, or you have to go back and rebuild everything that's broke (pain).

This post has been edited by Forge: 30 January 2024 - 08:53 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

#79

Using tror scissoring is only one of a handful of more recently introduced bugs that force me to stay with older revisions. So that was settled in my mind already. The breaking of the Polymer flashlight was another important factor in that decision.

This post has been edited by Mark: 30 January 2024 - 04:15 PM

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