[Ninety-Six]

Lately I've become fascinated at the concept of Duke maps that manage to use vanilla textures to convincingly sell a type of location that was not explored in the original game. Obviously they will never be 100%, but if it can sell the image with only a tiny handful of reminders, I think it qualifies.

I want to sort of get a running list/collection of these maps (be them user maps or from an episode), as I'm curious to see what else is out there. Obviously, if they use custom art within the map itself, it doesn't qualify (custom music or SFX is acceptable, I think). And of course, generic space or military base maps (even if I love them) and the like also don't count. Variations of a similar idea found in the base game (a non-strip bar, a soccer stadium) are also disqualified because that's too easy. There is a preference for maps that dedicate themselves to a single theme, but if a theme is done well enough even if it's just one location among several, that's fine (it's not like the original game didn't do this itself). Exceptions will also be granted if a map has outdone one of the original themes, as I'm interested in those as well.

This list is less concerned with gameplay (a first, for me) and more on visual merits alone.


Here the ones I know of and can recall at this current point in time:

Dukenpark (Metropolitan Mayhem) by MRCK/ck3D - Skatepark
Toxic Gas (Lost Highway) by Petr & Lukas (I can't tell which one if not both) - Gas Station
ACB Studios by Ancient Coffee Bean - TV Station
Skycity2 by ILoveFoxes - Airliner (one of several, I know)
Skycity3 by ILoveFoxes - School
Red4: Boat Trippin' by Merlijn van Oostrum - Cruise ship/ferry boat
Hamilton Pool by David B. - Public Pool
Hostel by David B. - Hostel
It Lives by Gambini - (Haunted) Hospital

I know I'm forgetting plenty but that's all I can think of for now.

[ck3D]

Pretty cool to see Dukenpark on that list, I would rebuild that map on a completely different scale nowadays but for what it is I always sort of liked how it played. Here are a few photos of the corresponding real-life location (now long gone) if you're curious: https://www.ridethef...e-centre-37.jpg room on the first photo is perhaps the least recognizable, but the one on the second and third you should definitely be able to spot where the key is and the Battlelord spawns.

'tis a good thread, I will try and think about more examples. Roch 4 was pretty cool with the French château meets TV show theme. And then there's TamDuke: https://msdn.duke4.net/revtamduke.php although we're talking a full city neighborhood per neighborhood here, but the quality doesn't look very consistent from map to map and so I don't know about 'convincing', but it's there and it's interesting for what it is. I'd say a lot of maps from Downtown Journey might qualify actually, especially the bus depot, office and mall maps.

(also, not to self-promote but damn, you in particular really are not waiting on Blast Radius for nothing)

[Ninety-Six]

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 07:47 AM, said:

Pretty cool to see Dukenpark on that list, I would rebuild that map on a completely different scale nowadays but for what it is I always sort of liked how it played. Here are a few photos of the corresponding real-life location (now long gone) if you're curious: https://www.ridethef...e-centre-37.jpg room on the first photo is perhaps the least recognizable, but the one on the second and third you should definitely be able to spot where the key is and the Battlelord spawns.

I play through MM exactly as often as I play through the original game, being part of my regular rotation, so nah I actually recognize the first photo, too. As a matter of fact Dukenpark was one of the main inspirations for this topic, as it was really the first map I played (of a vanilla style at least, as opposed to a Roch-style) to make me go "wow, this is all entirely stock assets? Besides the occasional Crip door graffiti you wouldn't be able to tell." ACB Studios was the other map that served as the main inspiration. It's been stewing for a while, actually.

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 07:47 AM, said:

I'd say a lot of maps from Downtown Journey might qualify actually, especially the bus depot, office and mall maps.

I'm actually just about to start this, so I have no doubts to see some of those maps in this thread at some point.



EDIT: Just thought of another that I forgot.

Slick by Rob West - Oil Rig

[Aleks]

There's plenty of that in Roch maps really, although yeah Roch 4 with the superb mansion and TV studio is probably the most obvious example. Train stations (and also trains, even another MRCK's one in MM) are quite a popular theme, so probably I won't be inventing a wheel here with Alejandro's maps (Blackened and Another Timeless Night mostly) and recently, Stowaway. While I mentioned Another Timeless Night, another quite popular theme might be shopping malls - and again, I'd go with that mall map from Downtown Journey here. Another easily convincing theme are swimming pools, I think one of the Roch maps had one of these (Roch 6 IIRC) and then also the "Roch-wannabe" - Dogville, also the old but recently dug-up by Puritan JABA. There's also the churches/cathedrals thing (Arrovf's Cathedral). As for older maps, I'd recommend Chris Muir's Highjack (airport) and Cruzship (well, a ship). MRCK's maps in general have a lot of original city locations (kebab shop in Happy Hangover, pharmacy in Poison Heart etc.), although they're never directly centered around one thing. The same can be said about Merlijn's and Maarten's map, but not sure if these locations being just a part of bigger city and not necessarily super elaborated themselves is what you're looking for (and I'm sure you've played these maps anyway). I also have a huge sentiment for Independence Day's (Id4ver2.map), although it's a rather silly old map with all the design bugs you can expect, but there's a really cool amusement park and a bowling alley. Then maybe also Daniel Aashage's The Adventures of Poseidon set in a ocean museum will do the trick for you?

[ck3D]

Browsing through MSDN's hot maps real quick, trying to stay away from the most obvious but I feel like I'm really just repeating the same personal favorites I regularly bring up:

Freedom by Kevin Cools - mansion https://msdn.duke4.net/hotfreedom.php
Red Rock by Markus Schopf - canyon with a twist, pal 19 on all the cliffs actually makes the map feel special https://msdn.duke4.net/hotredrock.php
Slum Noir by oasiz - Blade Runner-type city https://msdn.duke4.net/hotslumnoir.php
The Flaming Shipwreck by Quakis - (elaborate) bar https://msdn.duke4.net/hotflaming.php
Decay by Radon - ruined city https://msdn.duke4.net/hotdecay.php
Dark Place 5 by taivo30 - otherworldly amusement/theme park https://msdn.duke4.n...tdarkplace5.php (a bit more timid, but DP3 also had the ski jump: https://msdn.duke4.n...tdarkplace3.php)
Red Sun by vanx - 'rusty' space station https://msdn.duke4.net/hotredsun.php

Also one of the most memorable locations out of all the random little areas here and there punctuating the Roch maps, one that I remember particularly impressed me with the texturing at the time was that building in construction, I think in Roch 8 (or perhaps 7). And for some reason, the Roch map with the most sense of location as a whole for me was always Roch 3, perhaps because it's rather concentrated and feels like a particularly coherent neighborhood.

 Ninety-Six, on 30 May 2021 - 08:31 AM, said:

I play through MM exactly as often as I play through the original game, being part of my regular rotation, so nah I actually recognize the first photo, too. As a matter of fact Dukenpark was one of the main inspirations for this topic, as it was really the first map I played (of a vanilla style at least, as opposed to a Roch-style) to make me go "wow, this is all entirely stock assets? Besides the occasional Crip door graffiti you wouldn't be able to tell." ACB Studios was the other map that served as the main inspiration. It's been stewing for a while, actually.

That's great, I actually remember having probably some of the most fun working on MM doing this map in particular, and in fact it was a little (one-day) exercise for me to try and grasp a better understanding on the stock textures to try and get satisfying- and classic-looking results instead of really going full surrealist and designing whatever however. MM in general was in essence but Dukenpark I remember finishing and thinking OK, this actually sort of resembles my vision of a base Duke 3D map more than the rest. Tons of differences in retrospect: confined outside areas, no proper dynamic lighting, some weird palette and sprite mash-ups subsisting, but still out of all the levels I think it was the one that made the most click for me. It taught me to actually watch which tones and styles were the most coherent with which others from one texture to the next (basically a step towards realizing that one could easily divide all the base tiles in just a few more or less compatible subcategories while assembling them, to create more coherent level subsections), when on the rest of the maps I made I was focusing on simple layouts and fast speed (given the pseudo-time restraint) a little bit more. I actually liked Dukenpark that much, for a minute I considered releasing it as a standalone user map, some time after MM dropped - but then figured what's the point, in reality, given its rather low ambitions, it's just perfect as a little treat hidden out there to reward the people playing the whole of MM. Also, I appreciate you playing that episode so much (still and after all these years).

[Ninety-Six]

 Aleks, on 30 May 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

There's also the churches/cathedrals thing (Arrovf's Cathedral).

Ah, of course. That reminds me:

The Monastery of Darkness (20th Anniversary Edition) by Schronzki - Indiana Jones-esque monastery

 Aleks, on 30 May 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

(kebab shop in Happy Hangover

I don't remember the kebab shop. I should maybe play HH again; it's been a while. Oddly enough I played it again more recently than I did Poison Heart yet I remember the pharmacy distinctly well.

 Aleks, on 30 May 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

The same can be said about Merlijn's and Maarten's map, but not sure if these locations being just a part of bigger city and not necessarily super elaborated themselves is what you're looking for (and I'm sure you've played these maps anyway).

Yeah, a town tends to not look super distinct (though I still respect them and enjoy them. There's just not usually much to make them stand out, in the same way military and space maps tend to be. But I love them the same as the latter. That's just outside the scope of this topic. That said, I will give extra special credit to Maarten's Woudrichem War for recreating a whole real-life city in a single map). Though that reminds me:

Red 2: Alien Occupation by the Oostrum Brothers - Town Hall (Obviously picking the revised edition here, but the original wasn't too different in that regard)
Brainwash Facility by underTaker - Mental Asylum

 Aleks, on 30 May 2021 - 12:05 PM, said:

I also have a huge sentiment for Independence Day's (Id4ver2.map), although it's a rather silly old map with all the design bugs you can expect, but there's a really cool amusement park and a bowling alley. Then maybe also Daniel Aashage's The Adventures of Poseidon set in a ocean museum will do the trick for you?

An ocean museum, eh? I'm intrigued enough to go check that one out ASAP. DC had an aquarium in the Smithsonian, and it's probably the most memorable part of the level for me. So I'm quite interested to see what a more dedicated map looks like using stock textures (though the DC one was like 90% stock anyway).

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

Slum Noir by oasiz - Blade Runner-type city https://msdn.duke4.net/hotslumnoir.php

This one was interesting since it tried to create a city environment using almost no city textures. The result was definitely unique, to say the least.

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

The Flaming Shipwreck by Quakis - (elaborate) bar https://msdn.duke4.net/hotflaming.php

Yep, fair enough, I should have included this one. I only played it once so alas my memory of it wasn't fantastic.

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

Dark Place 5 by taivo30 - otherworldly amusement/theme park https://msdn.duke4.n...tdarkplace5.php (a bit more timid, but DP3 also had the ski jump: https://msdn.duke4.n...tdarkplace3.php)

I forgot about this one, and I really shouldn't have. I only played through the entire DP series just a couple of months ago. Speaking of ski jumps, however:

2018 Final Beer Run by sT1LL_WAnTeD - Ski Slopes

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

Red Sun by vanx - 'rusty' space station https://msdn.duke4.net/hotredsun.php

I debated about mentioning this one, but I suppose its rusted look is worth at least a name drop. As a side note, the thing that impressed me the most about Red Sun is how easily I can buy the red-tinted earth as a red sun. It works surprisingly well.

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

one that I remember particularly impressed me with the texturing at the time was that building in construction, I think in Roch 8 (or perhaps 7).

Yeah, it was 8. I remember that, and also being impressed for the construction yard.

I was about to mention Construction Destruction from Duke Hard as another one I forgot about, but to be honest, like 80% of Duke Hard probably qualifies in its entirety.


Keep 'em comin', guys!

 ck3D, on 30 May 2021 - 01:26 PM, said:

Also, I appreciate you playing that episode so much (still and after all these years).

Mildly off-topic but yeah if a mod or mapset is of exceptional quality and I really enjoy playing them, then I replay them alongside the vanilla game and its expansions the next time I go in for a full playthrough of DN3D. So sets like MM, Duke Hard, Red, the ABBA trilogy, etc... just to name a few. There are others as well but that's a topic for another time, I think.

[NNC]

While The Lost Highway wasn't flawless, it certainly did a fantastic job to create impressive locations with stock elements. Not just Toxic Gas, but the secret level too with the alpine cable car setting, or the big dam level with the trainwreck (forgot the title). These are the types of levels which were the scope of the original game designers as well: with limited tools, creating a sense of a believable location in a rather high 3D scale.

Also has to mention Traffic Jam, which was an amalgam between Olivier Boucher's impressive parking tower with a very clever sense of 3D, and a nearby river area copied from LameDuke. Again, not perfect because of nuances, but it certainly captured the spirit of the game well.... oh wait, Traffic Jam used some LD stock textures and even stuff from SW. I still think it deserves a mention.

[MC84]

I'd add the castle map from the Daikarin series by Gabriele R. Giaminardis, I thought this was very nicely done.

Also Seb Luca's "Castle Ship" with nice forest scenery and a unique vibe all with standard tiles

And Ruin by Stanger - nice post apocalyptic/terminator vibe

[Ninety-Six]

 MC84, on 30 May 2021 - 11:29 PM, said:

I'd add the castle map from the Daikarin series by Gabriele R. Giaminardis, I thought this was very nicely done.

There's actually two of them. I'm not sure which one you mean but you're right, I overlooked them. In fact I kinda forgot the gothic/medieval type entirely, which is a bit strange since they are all, by default, maps using stock textures to create areas not visited in the vanilla game. The closest base DN3D had was the execution chapel.


Haven't heard of the other two you listed so I will have to check those out.

[ck3D]

Ruin was a DM map, wasn't it? With Decay essentially being the SP counterpart. I think a while back Radon and Stranger were working on a map set together involving both of those that was scrapped and so the levels came out as standalone or something, which was commonplace in the late 90's/early 2000's not going to lie. Either way Decay was one of those first maps that left a wow impression on me when I first got Internet access and checked out what everyone else in the world had been doing for Duke 3D. Decay is very similar to Slum Noir except much older and perhaps a bit more conservative in its looks but the sense of scale is great, lots to learn from that piece, I would definitely recommend it.

Ditto on palette 2 easily selling Earth as some red sun or even Mars to me, Sand (which I just now realized was included in Duke!ZONE) also did it earlier:



I'll try to think of more, right now there's one on my mind that would definitely qualify and I haven't seen in forever, I actually can't seem to find it online but I know I have the file somewhere, a DM map called binn.map (or maybe thebinn.map) where a few flatmates somewhere had recreated their apartment building in Duke 3D 1.3d (complete with teleporters from floor to floor as opposed to real staircases/room-over-room) as well as the Wawa across the street that even got a mention in their .txt file, and although it was a pretty basic map technically I used to wander about it for longer than reasonable as a kid just because of the strength of the texturing. It made good use of the 1.3d assets that actually introduced some realism that sold the place, but would also occasionally get balls-in trippy, e.g.. I seem to remember one room from the inside of which where you'd reach a balcony, but in lieu of the outdoor scenery (that really wasn't present due to how all the floors were disconnected), you instead got into some short, otherworldly abstract section, and only just now 20 years later I'm catching myself wondering if that could have been based on how the guys would smoke weed on that balcony IRL or something. Myhouse.maps were always aplenty and dull for the most part but I remember as a kid I was fascinated with them, and every now and then you'd actually run into a gem. I remember another nighttime one with detailed texturing, clean looks, interesting secrets and some groovy new stuff such as a (playable?) piano as soon as 1996/1997. I should just dust off that old shovelware CD of mine one of these days, I'm rather nostalgic for a lot of people's creations on it.

Kebab spot in Happy Hangover is just after the drunken section and before you enter the abandoned warehouse (that was also based on a real-world one by the way), but I remember James pointing out that he had built (or seen) another one before. In mine, there is actually one minor, super cryptic visual storytelling bit that I know not many people have caught, binding together the kebab place and adult video store. There was a pharmacy in Poison Heart, or do you guys mean the market thing? I can only remember the one from the BR map 2 screenshots that I tried to build as an explicit pharmacy. Anarchy City X also had that supermarket with the portable medkits (and that one apartment with the expensive minimalist furniture that was rather fun to come up with), perhaps that's what you guys have in mind. The End of the World Pt. 1 also had a 7-Eleven, the only building still standing strong in the city correlating with the slogan, 'always there for you'.

[Ninety-Six]

 ck3D, on 31 May 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

In mine, there is actually one minor, super cryptic visual storytelling bit that I know not many people have caught, binding together the kebab place and adult video store.

After that long discussion we had after PH, I was all but certain that there was such stuff in HH. I'd have to play it again to see if I noticed it before or not.

 ck3D, on 31 May 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

There was a pharmacy in Poison Heart, or do you guys mean the market thing? I can only remember the one from the BR map 2 screenshots that I tried to build as an explicit pharmacy. Anarchy City X also had that supermarket with the portable medkits (and that one apartment with the expensive minimalist furniture that was rather fun to come up with), perhaps that's what you guys have in mind. The End of the World Pt. 1 also had a 7-Eleven, the only building still standing strong in the city correlating with the slogan, 'always there for you'.

I thought he was referring to the "pharmacy" that was undergoing a drug bust (I think it was actually a bank or something of the sort, if I remember right).

[Aleks]

Is it this moment in the thread when either ck3D or I mention Azneer Building with an exceptionally cool for 1996 recreation of real life building which belonged to a university (including a cool lecture class flooded with water with multiple SOS)? And when we're at the solid early classics and the thread has already wandered a bit off to the medieval team, what about Pompeii set up in, well, Pompeii town right before it was melted in lava? Besides a rather sloppy first segment which see Duke infiltrating a facility with time travel device (time travel mechanism alone is really cool though!), the map takes place in an ancient Greek town and sells the theme pretty well!

Also I should mention God of War TC, which uses some new art (but only weapons IIRC, so the textures are all still vanilla besides some signs etc.) and in 2 first maps (which are city themed) has some original locations, including another construction site, attorney's office (this one definitely uses new art for logo and besides that isn't really so original), a church and most notably, a furniture shop! Hell, I'd even argue that the themes of latter maps, despite being more in the hi-tech and space theme, are pretty original.

Oh and yeah I second (or third) the mention of Flaming Shipwreck considering how elaborate the bar is and really how it original is the application of textures - was going to mention it in my first post too!

And what about Legends 1 & 2 by Mike Beaulieu? As for first super-impressive stuff, I think these 2 maps did the job for me, as a kid I was sure there's new textures in it. Mostly would fit them in this thread for being probably one of the first maps which recreated a forest area and sold the concept so well.

Edit: You're right, guys - I somehow mixed the screens of pharmacy in one of BR maps and Shop'n'Bag in Poison Heart (which was very distinct with its horroresque stuff in it).

[ck3D]

 Ninety-Six, on 31 May 2021 - 03:33 AM, said:

After that long discussion we had after PH, I was all but certain that there was such stuff in HH. I'd have to play it again to see if I noticed it before or not.

I thought he was referring to the "pharmacy" that was undergoing a drug bust (I think it was actually a bank or something of the sort, if I remember right).

Ah yeah, there was the Christmas tree place where in the back room they really duct-tape weed onto wooden sticks, getting busted at the same time as the insurance company next door that they have all kinds of connections with, but none of them really are obvious until you stop and look at the place of the detail in the bigger picture, good times. Sorry for bringing up my own maps so much by the way, it's just that I was always very much into the exact principle this thread runs on too and so I always liked the idea of playing around with it myself. Otherwise I'd say it also was/is the most interesting aspect in Merlijn, Taivo Maripuu and then Gambini's works in general. I also always liked how William Gee would use textures and stretch them onto large surfaces.

 Aleks, on 31 May 2021 - 03:41 AM, said:

And what about Legends 1 & 2 by Mike Beaulieu? As for first super-impressive stuff, I think these 2 maps did the job for me, as a kid I was sure there's new textures in it. Mostly would fit them in this thread for being probably one of the first maps which recreated a forest area and sold the concept so well.

You just reminded me of PsyCHosE's Psydead: https://msdn.duke4.net/hotpsydead.php

Victor's Killing Time I always thought was interesting in its approach too: https://msdn.duke4.n...killingtime.php as well as Reginukem's levels (whose vehicles I always liked in particular).

Re: confusion regarding those locations, well if anything that's just saying a lot about how strong that wall texture used in E1L2's Forbidden Videos & Books really is.

Edit - and let's not forget Robert Travis' Anslem: https://dnr.duke4.net/maps/Anslem.html and Aztec: https://dnr.duke4.net/maps/Aztec.html

[NNC]

 Ninety-Six, on 30 May 2021 - 11:56 PM, said:

There's actually two of them. I'm not sure which one you mean but you're right, I overlooked them. In fact I kinda forgot the gothic/medieval type entirely, which is a bit strange since they are all, by default, maps using stock textures to create areas not visited in the vanilla game. The closest base DN3D had was the execution chapel.


Haven't heard of the other two you listed so I will have to check those out.

It's weird that most medieval themed maps are using exclusively the grey and brown marble (and their frame) textures from tiles013, which are built for the city levels in Shrapnel City, and give those levels a distinct look from other cities. For example when people said Sewer and Sweeney don't look like the levels of Shrapnel City, it's because they are lacking the tiles013.art.

While these textures work well for the medieval theme, I think Duke's other assets are a pretty bad fit (ie. enemies like pigcops), and generally Duke works much better in futuristic, human built environments due to the game's grey oriented palette, and the Build Engine's blockiness.

[Ninety-Six]

 Aleks, on 31 May 2021 - 03:41 AM, said:

what about Pompeii set up in, well, Pompeii town right before it was melted in lava? Besides a rather sloppy first segment which see Duke infiltrating a facility with time travel device (time travel mechanism alone is really cool though!), the map takes place in an ancient Greek town and sells the theme pretty well!

An ancient Greece map using only stock assets? I gotta see this...

 Aleks, on 31 May 2021 - 03:41 AM, said:

Also I should mention God of War TC, which uses some new art (but only weapons IIRC, so the textures are all still vanilla besides some signs etc.)

That brings up a good point. Yeah, if the art assets used are just new art for the weapons or skins for the enemies, or something like that, something not baked into the map itself, it qualifies.

Custom skies should also be acceptable, I think, as long as that's the only new art in the map.

 The Watchtower, on 31 May 2021 - 04:47 AM, said:

It's weird that most medieval themed maps are using exclusively the grey and brown marble (and their frame) textures from tiles013, which are built for the city levels in Shrapnel City, and give those levels a distinct look from other cities. For example when people said Sewer and Sweeney don't look like the levels of Shrapnel City, it's because they are lacking the tiles013.art.

I dunno. Maybe I just came across a string of strong coincidence, but almost every medieval map I've played actually makes extensive use of the green brick texture from Launch Facility. To the point where I can't actually play LF without my brain going "oh yeah the medieval walls."

 The Watchtower, on 31 May 2021 - 04:47 AM, said:

While these textures work well for the medieval theme, I think Duke's other assets are a pretty bad fit (ie. enemies like pigcops), and generally Duke works much better in futuristic, human built environments due to the game's grey oriented palette, and the Build Engine's blockiness.

While I agree that Duke's other stock assets don't mesh with a medieval theme, in terms of architecture alone I'd say that Duke was still quite capable of making convincing maps in that style. Moreso than even Doom was able to pull off (at the time, anyway), despite gothic/hellish motifs being that game's bread and butter. The fact that it could get as close as it does already is a testament to how versatile all those textures are. Sure, the geometry could be a little blocky at times, but show me a game engine at the time that wasn't blocky. Even the Quake engine wasn't above being blocky at times. I'd argue it wasn't until Unreal 1 that FPS map design was able to escape the blocky nature of its original engines (and to a lesser extent, GldSrc, which really didn't get to showcase it much in Half-Life until Surface Tension and then later on in Xen).

 ck3D, on 31 May 2021 - 03:59 AM, said:

Sorry for bringing up my own maps so much by the way

Nah, don't be sorry. I mean, setting aside the part where a sizable chunk of active posters here are mappers themselves (and therefore self-promotion is inevitable, intentional or not), this thread exists to document and list all the maps out there that fit the criteria. If your own maps happen to fit that criteria, then they belong here. Go nuts, dude.



I'd like to say that so far there's actually way more maps in this category than I thought there was, and I am really happy about that. This thread has already far exceeded my expectations. Let's keep it going!

[Aleks]

 Ninety-Six, on 31 May 2021 - 05:57 AM, said:

An ancient Greece map using only stock assets? I gotta see this...

You should! It's a 1996 map I think and it shows, although the further you go, the better the design gets (with volcano part itself being especially well done), so don't get turned off by the chaotic/random first part before the time machine. And yeah, the green brick texture is especially prominent there (also using the sewer manhole lids as shields decorating the walls is such a neat idea!). Unfortunately, the map comes without any txt file, so no idea who's the author (maybe it would be worth checking inside the map for some signature?).

As for the thread itself, I think the scope is really vast here, which is cool - as this turned out into an interesting talk on the versatility of Duke's stock textures, which is always welcome! To be honest, almost every city map tried to have some original and unusual type of location from what I can tell, just it wasn't always very pronounced.

[ck3D]

Speaking of Markus Schopf, perhaps it's Alpha/Beta City that I should have been mentioning, I just now remembered about it. Nothing particularly crazy or central but his way of assembling full bright sprites in otherwise dark city environments really impressed and influenced me as soon as the AMC days (the style also reminds me of Perro Seco's maps, but these are more recent) and once again, would make his level feel special. Really helped his urban environment convey a bigger metropolis at night kind of vibe over the typical deserted L.A. slum. I guess he has a knack for taking established, basic themes but then giving them his own unique twist all the while not really touching the base assets but in in-editor ways which is always interesting.

4:10 and then 8:10:



Plus most of part 2 with a sweet destruction sequence at the very start:

[Ninety-Six]

I don't think they qualify for the purposes of this thread, but yeah the way the lighting works is absolutely gorgeous. The screenshots alone are what drew me in, especially when I learned all the point lights were completely fake and rendered using nothing but a palette change and diminishing brightness. I am a total sucker for good lighting in basically any game and Alpha City was phenomenal.


Also I just as of this moment learned there was a sequel. I need to play that, too.

[ck3D]

For the record, I don't think Beta City really was a sequel per se, more like the exact same map just with some enhancements (and honestly I could never really tell the final differences in between both).

[MC84]

 ck3D, on 31 May 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

Ruin was a DM map, wasn't it? With Decay essentially being the SP counterpart.

Well unless there was a title change Ruin as I played it was a SP map. Heavy use of sentry drones, with keycards etc. But to be honest it probably would make a good multiplayer map for 6-8 people. But yeah it's not listed on MSDN.

[ck3D]

 MC84, on 31 May 2021 - 11:05 AM, said:

Well unless there was a title change Ruin as I played it was a SP map. Heavy use of sentry drones, with keycards etc. But to be honest it probably would make a good multiplayer map for 6-8 people. But yeah it's not listed on MSDN.

Actually you're right, although it is on MSDN, here: https://msdn.duke4.net/dmruin.php where Mikko does describe it as a DM map originally (it's even listed as such, but it's a review from the early 2000's), with monsters added to spice it up. But in reality, it does seem to be its own SP level with the ability to stand on its feet as such. In fact I must have played it myself forever ago, but the wording in Mikko's review of Decay makes the exact parallel with Ruin sound a bit misleading: https://msdn.duke4.net/hotdecay.php and so the way I understand it, they're essentially sister maps. Decay is even similar in its use of sentry drones, from what I can gather from your post.

[gibfrag]

Two more recent maps from 2020 using stock textures and sprites that were based off real locations and by the same author, elandy:

Flag Memorial: Based off the Monumento a la Bandera of the Argentinian city of Rosario.

Rosario1: Based off the city itself. Has a lot of different attractions including an art museum.

Perhaps these would qualify your conditions.

[Ninety-Six]

 Gerolf, on 31 May 2021 - 05:34 PM, said:

Two more recent maps from 2020 using stock textures and sprites that were based off real locations and by the same author, elandy:

Flag Memorial: Based off the Monumento a la Bandera of the Argentinian city of Rosario.

Rosario1: Based off the city itself. Has a lot of different attractions including an art museum.

Perhaps these would qualify your conditions.

Sure sounds like they would. First one for certain.

[slacker1]

 ck3D, on 31 May 2021 - 03:05 AM, said:

Ruin was a DM map, wasn't it? With Decay essentially being the SP counterpart. I think a while back Radon and Stranger were working on a map set together involving both of those that was scrapped and so the levels came out as standalone or something, which was commonplace in the late 90's/early 2000's not going to lie. Either way Decay was one of those first maps that left a wow impression on me when I first got Internet access and checked out what everyone else in the world had been doing for Duke 3D. Decay is very similar to Slum Noir except much older and perhaps a bit more conservative in its looks but the sense of scale is great, lots to learn from that piece, I would definitely recommend it.

Ditto on palette 2 easily selling Earth as some red sun or even Mars to me, Sand (which I just now realized was included in Duke!ZONE) also did it earlier:



I'll try to think of more, right now there's one on my mind that would definitely qualify and I haven't seen in forever, I actually can't seem to find it online but I know I have the file somewhere, a DM map called binn.map (or maybe thebinn.map) where a few flatmates somewhere had recreated their apartment building in Duke 3D 1.3d (complete with teleporters from floor to floor as opposed to real staircases/room-over-room) as well as the Wawa across the street that even got a mention in their .txt file, and although it was a pretty basic map technically I used to wander about it for longer than reasonable as a kid just because of the strength of the texturing. It made good use of the 1.3d assets that actually introduced some realism that sold the place, but would also occasionally get balls-in trippy, e.g.. I seem to remember one room from the inside of which where you'd reach a balcony, but in lieu of the outdoor scenery (that really wasn't present due to how all the floors were disconnected), you instead got into some short, otherworldly abstract section, and only just now 20 years later I'm catching myself wondering if that could have been based on how the guys would smoke weed on that balcony IRL or something. Myhouse.maps were always aplenty and dull for the most part but I remember as a kid I was fascinated with them, and every now and then you'd actually run into a gem. I remember another nighttime one with detailed texturing, clean looks, interesting secrets and some groovy new stuff such as a (playable?) piano as soon as 1996/1997. I should just dust off that old shovelware CD of mine one of these days, I'm rather nostalgic for a lot of people's creations on it.

Kebab spot in Happy Hangover is just after the drunken section and before you enter the abandoned warehouse (that was also based on a real-world one by the way), but I remember James pointing out that he had built (or seen) another one before. In mine, there is actually one minor, super cryptic visual storytelling bit that I know not many people have caught, binding together the kebab place and adult video store. There was a pharmacy in Poison Heart, or do you guys mean the market thing? I can only remember the one from the BR map 2 screenshots that I tried to build as an explicit pharmacy. Anarchy City X also had that supermarket with the portable medkits (and that one apartment with the expensive minimalist furniture that was rather fun to come up with), perhaps that's what you guys have in mind. The End of the World Pt. 1 also had a 7-Eleven, the only building still standing strong in the city correlating with the slogan, 'always there for you'.

Sand definitely caught my attention when I first saw it back in the day. The outside section is great looking for the time. The interior of the map is a bit of a let down though, but with all the really early maps, it's forgivable as mapping was quite new.

Also, you are absolutely correct on your memory binn! I for some reason always thought that map was called "Wawa" because of the convenience store section of the map. It also stuck in my head after all these years for some reason. As soon as you started describing it, it was like a far distant memory came flooding back in my head.

I actually have a copy of it (attached to post if you want to replay it). It's part of 1500 map Duke Assault CD. I spun it up quick before typing out this message and it doesn't hold up as great as I remembered it. It's very cramped but it was fun to re-explore it after all these years.

Another one from that time that was "My house" style map that was really good was jenn-apt.map. That was a very well done early map that I remember there being a bunch of different modded versions of floating around. I think that's still easy to come by on the web, if not, I can post it too.

Attached File(s)

•  binn.zip (51.91K)
  Number of downloads: 177

[ck3D]

^ You really made my day (as soon as I woke up) by posting Binn.map, saved me the headache of searching around the house for my Come Get Some! CD in the hope that it would still work (I've actually seen its contents available online in full, including on Moddb: https://www.moddb.co...s/come-get-some just now looking it up, but I never really trust random downloads, that's my late grandfathers' side), I'm sure it will be a let down to an extent looking at it again now but that map has sentimental value to me and I'm really hyped to hear someone else could ever feel me on that one. From what I could gather from online information, Come Get Some! was rather similar to Duke Assault in concept (just like many similar 'initiatives' at the time), just more popular/better distributed in Germany and France. That was my only source for Duke user content circa 1996-2003 and so I studied the heck out of all my favorite works on that CD, also to learn how to map. The real mindfuck in The Binn for me was the sloped parallaxed sky to simulate the sloped roof of the house even though you could enter it - took me what feels like ages in retrospect to realize that's how they did it, even though the trick was always used in basic space maps, I just wasn't really looking at those or at least thinking urban application. The teleporters were stupid but I thought worked with the trippy style and added to the charm of that map IMO so much, I tried to replicate the style in my own levels for a minute (out of my old, old, old released stuff, Tours - Rives Du Cher comes to mind).

I do remember Jenn-apt.map quite well, also from either .txt files or perhaps even a mapping tutorial (Gmoser's? Breuer's? Itterheim's?) that were really, really hyping it up in particular ("best leval ev0r"), but then later I found and launched it and wasn't that impressed - it was a solid piece for its time for certain and one of the best Myhouse.maps, but didn't feel that special to me, I had seen more impressive ones at this point. Speaking of a relative let down (but still a good map), if I can be honest I remember feeling the same regarding Gmoser's map that he released (perhaps alongside his FAQ too), I think because I had checked his FAQ first and basically learned Build from it and so when I did launch that map later myself I thought wait, is this really from the guy who just taught me about aligning textures for a year straight and now look at them messy bricks? But basic design issues aside it really wasn't that bad, especially for the time period. Played rather well and showcased all the basic effects IIRC. You know, I will still try and find the other Myhouse.map I was talking about from that CD, the one with the piano. I remember finding out about that one super late (just because it had the most random filename and folder placement on the CD) and actually being blown away by it with the strength I expected from Jenn-apt.map after all the hype (although it probably came out much later, and Jenn-apt.map had already established itself as one of the first legit-looking house maps, hence its subsequent, arguably disrespectful modding). IIRC it was also full of secret passage ways, including E1L1-styled hidden apartments meant as DM sniper spots all around the city block surrounding the house, and used colored lighting vs. darker night theme to a great extent for the time period, in fact it might be relevant to this thread.

As not to derail the thread any further: Flag Memorial and Rosario1 were interesting maps, although in my opinion they only qualify so much (they are closer to something like Roch or the Tamduke maps the way I see them). Rosario1 in particular due to not being set around a particular center piece. The texturing on the memorial in Flag Memorial was also a bit lazy or at least could have done with a lot stronger wall shading, I remember it looking pretty flat despite its good architecture which was a shame (the author was literally just a few + and - key presses away from doing something awesome) - I remember lighting and shading looked like this author's Achilles heel in general, when the actual design was their forte. The maps also really used not just flipped but rotated textures, a relatively recent Mapster feature that is really great on paper but also generates a map format that's unreadable by all the previous eDuke32 builds, and so in my opinion those are in a subcategory of their own. I would still like to see more maps from elandy, they seemed like a promising mapper and without the funky shading and visibility everywhere, their works would already be top-notch.

PS. regarding Taivo's knack for seeing possibilities in the basic tile set, I always thought Just Another Christmas was a good representation as well, I remember design-wise it sort of blew my mind when I first played it, we might be straying a bit for the original subject of the thread as it's also lacking a central theme (unless snowy city block qualifies, but since you're exploring more than one just main location in there I don't think it does), its design in general is very creative although some stuff like the flipped switches or occasional unnecessary palette is a bit much for me nowadays:

[Ninety-Six]

Yeah I remember playing that one, too (Tavio has more or less become "that author" for me, as far as being behind a lot of maps I played without realizing he had made them). But you're right, I'd say it's probably not quite fitting for this thread.

[Aleks]

 ck3D, on 01 June 2021 - 04:16 AM, said:

I do remember Jenn-apt.map quite well, also from either .txt files or perhaps even a mapping tutorial (Gmoser's? Breuer's? Itterheim's?) that were really, really hyping it up in particular ("best leval ev0r"), but then later I found and launched it and wasn't that impressed - it was a solid piece for its time for certain and one of the best Myhouse.maps, but didn't feel that special to me, I had seen more impressive ones at this point. Speaking of a relative let down (but still a good map), if I can be honest I remember feeling the same regarding Gmoser's map that he released (perhaps alongside his FAQ too), I think because I had checked his FAQ first and basically learned Build from it and so when I did launch that map later myself I thought wait, is this really from the guy who just taught me about aligning textures for a year straight and now look at them messy bricks? But basic design issues aside it really wasn't that bad, especially for the time period. Played rather well and showcased all the basic effects IIRC. You know, I will still try and find the other Myhouse.map I was talking about from that CD, the one with the piano. I remember finding out about that one super late (just because it had the most random filename and folder placement on the CD) and actually being blown away by it with the strength I expected from Jenn-apt.map after all the hype (although it probably came out much later, and Jenn-apt.map had already established itself as one of the first legit-looking house maps, hence its subsequent, arguably disrespectful modding). IIRC it was also full of secret passage ways, including E1L1-styled hidden apartments meant as DM sniper spots all around the city block surrounding the house, and used colored lighting vs. darker night theme to a great extent for the time period, in fact it might be relevant to this thread.

Haha, I think the Gmoser's map you meant is CBBG, I played it recently too and expected something, well... better than what I got. Also I remember Jenn-Apt and I think it was mostly meant for DM, with just a few monsters thrown around, it had secret passages but no progression/nukebutton at all. This was probably the case with most "MyHouse.maps" back then. Two that I can remember which worked well would be Clarkst and especially Axe10 - the 2nd one, according to the text file, was author's "dream" house and it indeed was a neat mansion with spritework floors and nice texturing, also lots of glasses. There's been some monsters and even a Battlelord to finish off the level IIRC!

Technically, I don't think all the Christmas/snowy maps are out of the scope of the topic here, as there was actually no snow in Duke (besides sloppy Nuclear Winter) anyway, so it's really all about re-using the moon textures - which means all maps like Dukebert's XXX-Mas 98 or Kuffi's Christmas series would fit this topic.

[Merlijn]

Great topic! I think ADG06 deserves a mention for recreating the skyline of Rio de Janeiro.
Also, that map really nails the look and feel of a modern apartment complex, which differs quite a bit from the 'cosy' look of the original game.

I think Mikko's damn Hoover Dam map for DNF 2013 was mostly done with vanilla textures as well, so I guess that also deserves to be mentioned.

[Ninety-Six]

 Merlijn, on 01 June 2021 - 11:31 AM, said:

Great topic! I think ADG06 deserves a mention for recreating the skyline of Rio de Janeiro.
Also, that map really nails the look and feel of a modern apartment complex, which differs quite a bit from the 'cosy' look of the original game.

I didn't forget that map, but I didn't think it counted. Still, you have a point, especially regarding the modern (and fully explorable) apartments.

You've convinced me.

 Merlijn, on 01 June 2021 - 11:31 AM, said:

I think Mikko's damn Hoover Dam map for DNF 2013 was mostly done with vanilla textures as well, so I guess that also deserves to be mentioned.

I was torn on this one, since all the custom textures I recall seeing were not a part of the dam itself. They were mostly the smaller side-buildings, though I think the cars at the bottom of the dam used custom textures too?

[Dr.Panico]

 Merlijn, on 01 June 2021 - 11:31 AM, said:

Great topic! I think ADG06 deserves a mention for recreating the skyline of Rio de Janeiro.

Mild correction: ADG06 was set in Puerto Madero. It's the sequel that was meant to be set in Rio.