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DNF #1
Duke 3D #1
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[RELEASE] Submachine "A new map intended for Polymost and newer EDuke32 snapshots"
#31 Posted 17 May 2021 - 10:01 AM
Thanks, man! Spoiler alert: if you haven't found the secret place with code the bonus content archive, you might want to skip reading spoiler part in Slacker's and mine posts.
#32 Posted 18 September 2021 - 07:03 AM
Really late (even later actually since I finished this a month ago), but it was this map's turn in my backlog.
I'll cut to the chase to say that I actually enjoyed the puzzley nature of the map quite a lot. It asks the player to think a lot more about the location they're in more than your typical duke map. You had to think of the underground complex as an actual place with purpose to figure out where you were and what you had to do. It really made the setting (underground EDF base) stand out, as neither theme tend to be my favorites otherwise. Similar story to the ultimate weapon sidequest. Kinda wish more maps had "sidequests" like that.
The interactivity also needs immense commendation, as it's to a level I don't think I've seen since the vanilla game. Just about everything was interactive, often for the sole sake of being interactive and no other reason. That makes it sound bad, but this is Duke 3D. Interactivity for the sake of interactivity is what helped put the game on the map. There's really nothing wrong with, and in fact is worthy of praise, to have things a player can mess with for its own sake. The secret radio, functioning water coolers (which is oddly unique in DN3D), the list goes on. I liked pressing things just to see what would happen. I also enjoyed the easter eggs, having noticed them even before reading the secret pdf.
Combat wasn't anything to write home about, but it had a few properly spicy sections that elevated it to above-par for me. Still not amazing, but a fun enough time.
And of course, it'd be remiss to not mention the strong visuals, especially the little tiny details that help sell the place more. The alien tentacle being able to be "damaged" and "bleed," the way the book and coffee mug retain inertia on the filing cabinet in the secret lab, the BobSP homage, the list goes on. Even the simpler stuff like the fallen jackhammer or regular hammer are worthy of mention here.
I do have a few small complaints though. The most prominent relate to the two trolley rides, and how damage on them seems to either be unavoidable (in the lab trolley's case unless you glitch out of the cab), or randomly fatal (on the curved track). In fact some of the scripted explosions in general seem a bit rude, like the protector drone cave and its random explosion pattern.
Speaking of that room, having 150 bullets in the center of a somewhat congested space proves troublesome since you can only max out at 200. I think it would have been better if the ammunition was in one of the corners of the room (still lit up, of course), just to reduce the risk of the player accidentally wasting ammo by picking it up when they don't need it. Considering just how mobile you have to try and be against the swarm, I've had a rather frustrating number of times where I would lose that precious ammo, which is still fairly tight by that point in the level.
Signage could have also been a bit better. Lab A3 in particular comes to mind. Sure, it has a sign outside the door in A2... which you whizz past on an exploding trolley. And unlike Lab A2, it doesn't have a sign of its own denoting it within the lab itself. As a result it's not as easily apparent that you have to backtrack to the room once you receive the distress call.
There was also the matter of the control panel for the weapon. Admittedly, this one is the result of being forced to play with the classic renderer rather than the ideal polymost, but I will mention it anyway for anyone stuck in the same boat as me and unable to use that renderer. It's almost completely invisible due to the sprite limitations, so I'm wondering if there couldn't have been some other kind of indicator, like how the lethal agent had the light beam.
Nonetheless, an all-around fantastic map. My first playthrough ended at 112 minutes, with all kills and all secrets. A good portion of that time was spent secret hunting (as well as running around all over the place looking for the invisible control panel). And a good portion of that time was spent trying to figure out how to break into lab B2. However my time has since reduced a lot.
Here is a playthrough I recorded just today. It took me a month to make, as I wanted to do it both deathless and to reduce the amount of time spent backtracking needlessly. Route optimization was not only paramount, but remembering every single step along the way.
So what is Part D4, anyway?
I'll cut to the chase to say that I actually enjoyed the puzzley nature of the map quite a lot. It asks the player to think a lot more about the location they're in more than your typical duke map. You had to think of the underground complex as an actual place with purpose to figure out where you were and what you had to do. It really made the setting (underground EDF base) stand out, as neither theme tend to be my favorites otherwise. Similar story to the ultimate weapon sidequest. Kinda wish more maps had "sidequests" like that.
The interactivity also needs immense commendation, as it's to a level I don't think I've seen since the vanilla game. Just about everything was interactive, often for the sole sake of being interactive and no other reason. That makes it sound bad, but this is Duke 3D. Interactivity for the sake of interactivity is what helped put the game on the map. There's really nothing wrong with, and in fact is worthy of praise, to have things a player can mess with for its own sake. The secret radio, functioning water coolers (which is oddly unique in DN3D), the list goes on. I liked pressing things just to see what would happen. I also enjoyed the easter eggs, having noticed them even before reading the secret pdf.
Combat wasn't anything to write home about, but it had a few properly spicy sections that elevated it to above-par for me. Still not amazing, but a fun enough time.
And of course, it'd be remiss to not mention the strong visuals, especially the little tiny details that help sell the place more. The alien tentacle being able to be "damaged" and "bleed," the way the book and coffee mug retain inertia on the filing cabinet in the secret lab, the BobSP homage, the list goes on. Even the simpler stuff like the fallen jackhammer or regular hammer are worthy of mention here.
I do have a few small complaints though. The most prominent relate to the two trolley rides, and how damage on them seems to either be unavoidable (in the lab trolley's case unless you glitch out of the cab), or randomly fatal (on the curved track). In fact some of the scripted explosions in general seem a bit rude, like the protector drone cave and its random explosion pattern.
Speaking of that room, having 150 bullets in the center of a somewhat congested space proves troublesome since you can only max out at 200. I think it would have been better if the ammunition was in one of the corners of the room (still lit up, of course), just to reduce the risk of the player accidentally wasting ammo by picking it up when they don't need it. Considering just how mobile you have to try and be against the swarm, I've had a rather frustrating number of times where I would lose that precious ammo, which is still fairly tight by that point in the level.
Signage could have also been a bit better. Lab A3 in particular comes to mind. Sure, it has a sign outside the door in A2... which you whizz past on an exploding trolley. And unlike Lab A2, it doesn't have a sign of its own denoting it within the lab itself. As a result it's not as easily apparent that you have to backtrack to the room once you receive the distress call.
There was also the matter of the control panel for the weapon. Admittedly, this one is the result of being forced to play with the classic renderer rather than the ideal polymost, but I will mention it anyway for anyone stuck in the same boat as me and unable to use that renderer. It's almost completely invisible due to the sprite limitations, so I'm wondering if there couldn't have been some other kind of indicator, like how the lethal agent had the light beam.
Nonetheless, an all-around fantastic map. My first playthrough ended at 112 minutes, with all kills and all secrets. A good portion of that time was spent secret hunting (as well as running around all over the place looking for the invisible control panel). And a good portion of that time was spent trying to figure out how to break into lab B2. However my time has since reduced a lot.
Here is a playthrough I recorded just today. It took me a month to make, as I wanted to do it both deathless and to reduce the amount of time spent backtracking needlessly. Route optimization was not only paramount, but remembering every single step along the way.
So what is Part D4, anyway?
#33 Posted 19 September 2021 - 12:26 PM
Thanks for the elaborate opinion/review/feedback, Ninety-Six! I'm glad you enjoyed the map and actually it's really gratifying for me that you'd choose to spend so much time on it and explore it so thoroughly!
I was experimenting a bit with this "sidequest", but I've always liked things like this and it might be my personal favourite thing in the map actually. In the future I'm planning more levels that would be even more strongly based around such "mission based"/collecting concepts.
Really glad you dig it and picked up all these little things by yourself. The working radio was actually first made in an older version of EDuke that had a bit bugged sounds, but it was possible to make it a lot easier then - wanting to keep it turned out in a lot of experimenting with very complex workarounds to nail it (probably could have been made easier way as well).
After "Back in Business", I decided it would be better to keep the combat at a less challenging level not to distract from puzzles/design/immersion, but to also keep it at a fun level, especially in larger open spaces.
Hah, wasn't sure anyone would notice the ability to "damage" the tentacle, but I really wanted it to feel more organic. It's surrounded with IIRC like 60 invisible cactuses for this effect.
That's a fair point with the explosions, IIRC they actually got toned down a bit during the beta-testing phase. As for the dark cave with protector drones, that's one of the rooms I had a lot of doubts about and I'm not perfectly satisfied with it myself. It was done mostly somewhere over the years when I didn't really map a lot and felt a bit uninspired, even if I tweaked it a lot since. The fight with new beasts got surprisingly positive feedback from my testers though, although I guess the location of ammo might be a matter of strategy taken against them. The wall explosion in that room might be especially unfair as it's not really indicated what would go off at that point.
That was kind of part of the plan, to be honest. Lab A3 is still under construction, so there isn't much stuff on the walls, but I assumed people would figure which one is it through navigating.
I admit the map wasn't extensively tested in classic mode (and I believe especially the floor-aligned sprites might look off in it due to the fact they would always render, especially in places where they are intended to be "cut" by sector walls), so had no idea about it. I remember with "Back in Business" making some almost last minute changes to adapt the maps at least to an acceptable degree to classic mode after reading that you and ck3D can't/have problems running Polymost.
Thanks for recording the video, gonna watch it in the following days - also best of luck if you'll be maintaining the YouTube channel adding more gameplay videos of random maps, noticed there's also "The Adventures of Poseidon". And thanks for the dedication, seeing these kind of comments is super encouraging and motivating for me as an author (and for most other mappers too I believe), it seems you kind of maxed out on the experience "the way it's meant to be played" (well, besides the Polymost, which is a shame, but that's on me)!
Actually, had to check in Mapster to make sure it's marked where I thought it was
It might be just a label on part of the ventilation shafts, part D might be ventilation altogether, or maybe there is/will be some further parts within the base? After all, there's still a bunch of corridors and doors (e.g. the collapsed corridor where you can get the first blue key) that we don't get to visit... 
Ninety-Six, on 18 September 2021 - 07:03 AM, said:
I'll cut to the chase to say that I actually enjoyed the puzzley nature of the map quite a lot. It asks the player to think a lot more about the location they're in more than your typical duke map. You had to think of the underground complex as an actual place with purpose to figure out where you were and what you had to do. It really made the setting (underground EDF base) stand out, as neither theme tend to be my favorites otherwise. Similar story to the ultimate weapon sidequest. Kinda wish more maps had "sidequests" like that.
I was experimenting a bit with this "sidequest", but I've always liked things like this and it might be my personal favourite thing in the map actually. In the future I'm planning more levels that would be even more strongly based around such "mission based"/collecting concepts.
Quote
The interactivity also needs immense commendation, as it's to a level I don't think I've seen since the vanilla game. Just about everything was interactive, often for the sole sake of being interactive and no other reason. That makes it sound bad, but this is Duke 3D. Interactivity for the sake of interactivity is what helped put the game on the map. There's really nothing wrong with, and in fact is worthy of praise, to have things a player can mess with for its own sake. The secret radio, functioning water coolers (which is oddly unique in DN3D), the list goes on. I liked pressing things just to see what would happen. I also enjoyed the easter eggs, having noticed them even before reading the secret pdf.
Really glad you dig it and picked up all these little things by yourself. The working radio was actually first made in an older version of EDuke that had a bit bugged sounds, but it was possible to make it a lot easier then - wanting to keep it turned out in a lot of experimenting with very complex workarounds to nail it (probably could have been made easier way as well).
Quote
Combat wasn't anything to write home about, but it had a few properly spicy sections that elevated it to above-par for me. Still not amazing, but a fun enough time.
After "Back in Business", I decided it would be better to keep the combat at a less challenging level not to distract from puzzles/design/immersion, but to also keep it at a fun level, especially in larger open spaces.
Quote
And of course, it'd be remiss to not mention the strong visuals, especially the little tiny details that help sell the place more. The alien tentacle being able to be "damaged" and "bleed," the way the book and coffee mug retain inertia on the filing cabinet in the secret lab, the BobSP homage, the list goes on. Even the simpler stuff like the fallen jackhammer or regular hammer are worthy of mention here.
Hah, wasn't sure anyone would notice the ability to "damage" the tentacle, but I really wanted it to feel more organic. It's surrounded with IIRC like 60 invisible cactuses for this effect.
Quote
I do have a few small complaints though. The most prominent relate to the two trolley rides, and how damage on them seems to either be unavoidable (in the lab trolley's case unless you glitch out of the cab), or randomly fatal (on the curved track). In fact some of the scripted explosions in general seem a bit rude, like the protector drone cave and its random explosion pattern.
Speaking of that room, having 150 bullets in the center of a somewhat congested space proves troublesome since you can only max out at 200. I think it would have been better if the ammunition was in one of the corners of the room (still lit up, of course), just to reduce the risk of the player accidentally wasting ammo by picking it up when they don't need it. Considering just how mobile you have to try and be against the swarm, I've had a rather frustrating number of times where I would lose that precious ammo, which is still fairly tight by that point in the level.
Speaking of that room, having 150 bullets in the center of a somewhat congested space proves troublesome since you can only max out at 200. I think it would have been better if the ammunition was in one of the corners of the room (still lit up, of course), just to reduce the risk of the player accidentally wasting ammo by picking it up when they don't need it. Considering just how mobile you have to try and be against the swarm, I've had a rather frustrating number of times where I would lose that precious ammo, which is still fairly tight by that point in the level.
That's a fair point with the explosions, IIRC they actually got toned down a bit during the beta-testing phase. As for the dark cave with protector drones, that's one of the rooms I had a lot of doubts about and I'm not perfectly satisfied with it myself. It was done mostly somewhere over the years when I didn't really map a lot and felt a bit uninspired, even if I tweaked it a lot since. The fight with new beasts got surprisingly positive feedback from my testers though, although I guess the location of ammo might be a matter of strategy taken against them. The wall explosion in that room might be especially unfair as it's not really indicated what would go off at that point.
Quote
Signage could have also been a bit better. Lab A3 in particular comes to mind. Sure, it has a sign outside the door in A2... which you whizz past on an exploding trolley. And unlike Lab A2, it doesn't have a sign of its own denoting it within the lab itself. As a result it's not as easily apparent that you have to backtrack to the room once you receive the distress call.
That was kind of part of the plan, to be honest. Lab A3 is still under construction, so there isn't much stuff on the walls, but I assumed people would figure which one is it through navigating.
Quote
There was also the matter of the control panel for the weapon. Admittedly, this one is the result of being forced to play with the classic renderer rather than the ideal polymost, but I will mention it anyway for anyone stuck in the same boat as me and unable to use that renderer. It's almost completely invisible due to the sprite limitations, so I'm wondering if there couldn't have been some other kind of indicator, like how the lethal agent had the light beam.
I admit the map wasn't extensively tested in classic mode (and I believe especially the floor-aligned sprites might look off in it due to the fact they would always render, especially in places where they are intended to be "cut" by sector walls), so had no idea about it. I remember with "Back in Business" making some almost last minute changes to adapt the maps at least to an acceptable degree to classic mode after reading that you and ck3D can't/have problems running Polymost.
Quote
Nonetheless, an all-around fantastic map. My first playthrough ended at 112 minutes, with all kills and all secrets. A good portion of that time was spent secret hunting (as well as running around all over the place looking for the invisible control panel). And a good portion of that time was spent trying to figure out how to break into lab B2. However my time has since reduced a lot.
Here is a playthrough I recorded just today. It took me a month to make, as I wanted to do it both deathless and to reduce the amount of time spent backtracking needlessly. Route optimization was not only paramount, but remembering every single step along the way.
https://www.youtube....h?v=ROwuA0CGfGE
Here is a playthrough I recorded just today. It took me a month to make, as I wanted to do it both deathless and to reduce the amount of time spent backtracking needlessly. Route optimization was not only paramount, but remembering every single step along the way.
https://www.youtube....h?v=ROwuA0CGfGE
Thanks for recording the video, gonna watch it in the following days - also best of luck if you'll be maintaining the YouTube channel adding more gameplay videos of random maps, noticed there's also "The Adventures of Poseidon". And thanks for the dedication, seeing these kind of comments is super encouraging and motivating for me as an author (and for most other mappers too I believe), it seems you kind of maxed out on the experience "the way it's meant to be played" (well, besides the Polymost, which is a shame, but that's on me)!
Quote
So what is Part D4, anyway?
Actually, had to check in Mapster to make sure it's marked where I thought it was
It might be just a label on part of the ventilation shafts, part D might be ventilation altogether, or maybe there is/will be some further parts within the base? After all, there's still a bunch of corridors and doors (e.g. the collapsed corridor where you can get the first blue key) that we don't get to visit... #34 Posted 19 September 2021 - 06:03 PM
Aleks, on 19 September 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:
The fight with new beasts got surprisingly positive feedback from my testers though, although I guess the location of ammo might be a matter of strategy taken against them. The wall explosion in that room might be especially unfair as it's not really indicated what would go off at that point.
Yeah, I like the fight itself. Chaingunning drones is always a good time. It's really just the ammo placement and explosions I have issue with. Otherwise it's a fun fight. The parts where you get to squeeze on the trigger with the chaingun or the devastator against the newbeasts are some of the highlight battles for me.
Aleks, on 19 September 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:
I admit the map wasn't extensively tested in classic mode (and I believe especially the floor-aligned sprites might look off in it due to the fact they would always render, especially in places where they are intended to be "cut" by sector walls), so had no idea about it. I remember with "Back in Business" making some almost last minute changes to adapt the maps at least to an acceptable degree to classic mode after reading that you and ck3D can't/have problems running Polymost.
And I appreciate that. I fully realize it's because of the less than ideal renderer so I don't hold it against the map too much. But I figured it was worth mentioning for future reference.
one day ill get a computer that plays nice with polymost
one day
Aleks, on 19 September 2021 - 12:26 PM, said:
Thanks for recording the video, gonna watch it in the following days - also best of luck if you'll be maintaining the YouTube channel adding more gameplay videos of random maps, noticed there's also "The Adventures of Poseidon". And thanks for the dedication, seeing these kind of comments is super encouraging and motivating for me as an author (and for most other mappers too I believe), it seems you kind of maxed out on the experience "the way it's meant to be played" (well, besides the Polymost, which is a shame, but that's on me)!
Thanks. Since I already wanted to demonstrate how you were meant to figure out the answers (lest someone just see the answers only and wonder how you got there), I figured it wasn't that much more of an ask to show off some of the neat stuff and and interactive bits. Especially since the map did add in a lot of those tiny details. It would be kind of a waste to not show it off since I think that sadly only us hardcore Dukers even remember that the vanilla game prided itself on such, much less a user map.
And thanks for the encouragement for me, too. I was requested to start doing these and I figured I may as well. There really aren't that many Duke mod/map videos out there anyway, so anyone who gets stuck playing the game doesn't have access to the same kind of resources that, say, doom gets.
This post has been edited by Ninety-Six: 19 September 2021 - 06:05 PM
#35 Posted 01 May 2022 - 04:22 PM
It just occured to me while talking with ck3D that today marks the 1st anniversary of Submachine release, which seems like a good opportunity to "declassify" and publish the exclusive bonus content PDF. I've already uploaded it to ModDB, but also dropping it here if someone would like to take a look at that, but never bothered with finding the secret password.
EXCLUSIVE BONUS CONTENT.PDF (5.2MB)
Number of downloads: 261
EXCLUSIVE BONUS CONTENT.PDF (5.2MB)
Number of downloads: 261
#36 Posted 02 May 2022 - 03:33 AM
Seeing this on the front page while lazily looking through forums got me quite interested, so I've spent my night trying to play through this map. I'm gonna preface this by saying I haven't actually completed the map. I've nearly done so, I'm at the split yellow key path, but my only save has become kind of unplayable and I don't think I want to spend another 45 minutes on this map trying to retrace my progress. That's on me for not using multiple saves though, I'll learn for next time. My condolences to Aleks.
I'm writing this to just get some thoughts down, because this is a very interesting map that I've got a lot to talk about with.
First, all of the good things: Like literally everyone has said beforehand, this map looks fantastic. This underground base is vibrantly detailed, bursting with aesthetic touches everywhere and is clearly a product of someone who is extremely experienced in Build. Some of my favourite features include the sector-drawn valves and chairs used in place of sprites and the sliding glass doors. It succeeded in really leaving an impression on me. The building suspense as I took the first elevator down and saw the glowing red eyes off to the side. The caves with green crystals you can see your reflection in and are required to use the Shrinker on to progress. Construction tools and broken items strewn about the place. The puzzle elements of the map with the mass amounts of switch and key hunting weren't too bad either, they were relatively easy to solve, they flowed well and the hints for most of the puzzles always provided enough so that the only time I was stuck was trying to find where the next switch was or where I would find the next key.
Then there's some things I'm on the fence about. Firstly, the music. Lee Jackson's "Megamusic" is great for the first 20 minutes and then it started to grate on me quite a bit. It works well for the combat setpieces but I wish that there was a part of the song that quietened down to give my ears a break, especially when I was wandering around like a lost dog or trying to solve the god damned second red key sequence. Speaking of the combat, it's also something that I found to be quite hit and miss. To begin with, I'm not a huge fan of the blatant, frequent use of teleporting health and ammo. It breaks my immersion and it always made me think about how much I could have appreciated those supplies the first time I visited that area. At least most of the combat is pretty enjoyable. I appreciate the absence of Pig Cops and Enforcers, I wouldn't have wanted to deal with squads of hitscanners this late into the night for me. My favourite fight out of the ones I got to play was the one immediately after picking up the yellow key. The flood of Protector Drones is exciting, lightning fast, gruesomely satisfying with the Devastator and it's not as big of a cakewalk to clear with the Devastator as I initially thought. What I don't like as much are the several Battlelords. Without the Shrinker, a Medkit or more armor pickups each Battlelord became a game of peekaboo, peppering them with the limited shells and Chaingun bullets I had and not being able to make many mistakes, lest I get eaten alive by the Battlelord's chaingun.
Truthfully I feel a little bad for saying I have things I don't like about this map, but unfortunately I do. As implied before, ammo in general is pretty stingy. There were multiple times throughout my play session where I wished I had a few extra shells, bullets, Freezethrower ammo or some pipe bombs before the ones that teleported in the vents. The other definite red flag for me is the sequence required to collect the second red key. The mechanism used to power the conveyor is undoubtedly really cool and must have been a royal pain in the ass to set up correctly, but it's the type of thing that would be better if it was saved for an important secret item or as the gimmick of a secret map, not a required item to progress through the map. The fact that you get encouraged to pause the conveyor and save the map is a bit of a teller for what was definitely the worst part of my experience with this map. Lastly, the security camera message logs were great environmental story beats, but as gameplay elements they aren't really executed well in my opinion. They made eDuke chug immensely each time I activated them for one, though this is definitely a fault on my end and it's probably not the map's issue. Activating the security camera that starts the side-quest made my game unplayable and I had to reload the map, skipping out on the quest in the process. I'm not too sure on how to fix this personally. The only one I really take issue with were the instructions for the red key conveyor, which were definitely too complicated and drawn out for what you're actually tasked to control.
Submachine is a statement of high brow Build wizardry. I can greatly appreciate the time and effort that was put into this map. And despite me having more negative or iffy things than positives in this review, I can truthfully say I still had a lot of fun. I liked a lot of the combat, it looked fantastic, it has good music and there's a lot of unique, creative ideas that could be expanded upon in the near future to make them much more fun and fluid. It's not perfect at all, but I'd say my night was well spent.
8.5/10.
I'm writing this to just get some thoughts down, because this is a very interesting map that I've got a lot to talk about with.
First, all of the good things: Like literally everyone has said beforehand, this map looks fantastic. This underground base is vibrantly detailed, bursting with aesthetic touches everywhere and is clearly a product of someone who is extremely experienced in Build. Some of my favourite features include the sector-drawn valves and chairs used in place of sprites and the sliding glass doors. It succeeded in really leaving an impression on me. The building suspense as I took the first elevator down and saw the glowing red eyes off to the side. The caves with green crystals you can see your reflection in and are required to use the Shrinker on to progress. Construction tools and broken items strewn about the place. The puzzle elements of the map with the mass amounts of switch and key hunting weren't too bad either, they were relatively easy to solve, they flowed well and the hints for most of the puzzles always provided enough so that the only time I was stuck was trying to find where the next switch was or where I would find the next key.
Then there's some things I'm on the fence about. Firstly, the music. Lee Jackson's "Megamusic" is great for the first 20 minutes and then it started to grate on me quite a bit. It works well for the combat setpieces but I wish that there was a part of the song that quietened down to give my ears a break, especially when I was wandering around like a lost dog or trying to solve the god damned second red key sequence. Speaking of the combat, it's also something that I found to be quite hit and miss. To begin with, I'm not a huge fan of the blatant, frequent use of teleporting health and ammo. It breaks my immersion and it always made me think about how much I could have appreciated those supplies the first time I visited that area. At least most of the combat is pretty enjoyable. I appreciate the absence of Pig Cops and Enforcers, I wouldn't have wanted to deal with squads of hitscanners this late into the night for me. My favourite fight out of the ones I got to play was the one immediately after picking up the yellow key. The flood of Protector Drones is exciting, lightning fast, gruesomely satisfying with the Devastator and it's not as big of a cakewalk to clear with the Devastator as I initially thought. What I don't like as much are the several Battlelords. Without the Shrinker, a Medkit or more armor pickups each Battlelord became a game of peekaboo, peppering them with the limited shells and Chaingun bullets I had and not being able to make many mistakes, lest I get eaten alive by the Battlelord's chaingun.
Truthfully I feel a little bad for saying I have things I don't like about this map, but unfortunately I do. As implied before, ammo in general is pretty stingy. There were multiple times throughout my play session where I wished I had a few extra shells, bullets, Freezethrower ammo or some pipe bombs before the ones that teleported in the vents. The other definite red flag for me is the sequence required to collect the second red key. The mechanism used to power the conveyor is undoubtedly really cool and must have been a royal pain in the ass to set up correctly, but it's the type of thing that would be better if it was saved for an important secret item or as the gimmick of a secret map, not a required item to progress through the map. The fact that you get encouraged to pause the conveyor and save the map is a bit of a teller for what was definitely the worst part of my experience with this map. Lastly, the security camera message logs were great environmental story beats, but as gameplay elements they aren't really executed well in my opinion. They made eDuke chug immensely each time I activated them for one, though this is definitely a fault on my end and it's probably not the map's issue. Activating the security camera that starts the side-quest made my game unplayable and I had to reload the map, skipping out on the quest in the process. I'm not too sure on how to fix this personally. The only one I really take issue with were the instructions for the red key conveyor, which were definitely too complicated and drawn out for what you're actually tasked to control.
Submachine is a statement of high brow Build wizardry. I can greatly appreciate the time and effort that was put into this map. And despite me having more negative or iffy things than positives in this review, I can truthfully say I still had a lot of fun. I liked a lot of the combat, it looked fantastic, it has good music and there's a lot of unique, creative ideas that could be expanded upon in the near future to make them much more fun and fluid. It's not perfect at all, but I'd say my night was well spent.
8.5/10.
#37 Posted 02 May 2022 - 04:39 AM
I didn't play the map but WOW it looks awesome in the screenshots. The attention to lighting and shadows, creative spritework, good texture choices and architecture.
#38 Posted 02 May 2022 - 12:46 PM
Thanks a lot for the detailed comment/review, Quacken, I really appreciate your time spent both playing the map and writing this. It's great to see people still playing and enjoying the map after such a year
As for stingy supplies and the music, I wanted to convey a bit of horror/survival atmosphere there. I'm actually glad you mentioned the no enforcers/pig cops (well there are a bunch of enforcers at the very end actually), in fact I was thinking a few minutes ago on how creative avoiding certain enemy types can sometimes get in the maps in order to achieve the desired type of gameplay (not in the context of Submachine, but something I've been beta-testing recently). Glad to know the map flowed well for you and you didn't have problems, besides the cameras (no idea what's that about, but there's been a bunch of new EDuke versions in the meantime, so that might have something to do with that). Also one of the cameras in the secret side quest thing shows a rotating view of the machine you are supposed to assemble, with heaps of transluscent sprites, so that might be quite heavy on the renderer.
The red key puzzle, well, here I'm prepared to take all the critique on my chest, it's something quite bald which I really wanted to make and I knew it would put off many players, but still was sure to include it.
Thanks again for your comments, good to know you had a good time with the map. I'd recommend you my newer The Conundrum episode, but since you didn't like the red key puzzles... Not sure if that would be a good idea
Needless to say, my next map will definitely be more straightforward and combat-oriented, whenever I'll finish it that is.
@Mark thanks for the kind words! Hope you'll also try playing the map yourself someday
As for stingy supplies and the music, I wanted to convey a bit of horror/survival atmosphere there. I'm actually glad you mentioned the no enforcers/pig cops (well there are a bunch of enforcers at the very end actually), in fact I was thinking a few minutes ago on how creative avoiding certain enemy types can sometimes get in the maps in order to achieve the desired type of gameplay (not in the context of Submachine, but something I've been beta-testing recently). Glad to know the map flowed well for you and you didn't have problems, besides the cameras (no idea what's that about, but there's been a bunch of new EDuke versions in the meantime, so that might have something to do with that). Also one of the cameras in the secret side quest thing shows a rotating view of the machine you are supposed to assemble, with heaps of transluscent sprites, so that might be quite heavy on the renderer.
The red key puzzle, well, here I'm prepared to take all the critique on my chest, it's something quite bald which I really wanted to make and I knew it would put off many players, but still was sure to include it.
Thanks again for your comments, good to know you had a good time with the map. I'd recommend you my newer The Conundrum episode, but since you didn't like the red key puzzles... Not sure if that would be a good idea
Needless to say, my next map will definitely be more straightforward and combat-oriented, whenever I'll finish it that is.@Mark thanks for the kind words! Hope you'll also try playing the map yourself someday
This post has been edited by Aleks: 02 May 2022 - 12:46 PM
#39 Posted 02 May 2022 - 01:49 PM
Aleks, on 02 May 2022 - 12:46 PM, said:
Thanks again for your comments, good to know you had a good time with the map. I'd recommend you my newer The Conundrum episode, but since you didn't like the red key puzzles... Not sure if that would be a good idea
I lol'd because yes, the Conundrum is essentially the red key puzzle in Submachine times a hundred. Would definitely recommend Back in Business to anyone who likes Submachine though, it's a pretty memorable experience and the maps share copious similarities with it in both gameplay and visual style, the last couple being my personal favorites (but the first one is also really good).
That design document is fantastic and I wish more people did stuff like this, it's 2022, kills a wee part of me how we never moved on from the classic notepad authoring templates till now, as much as I absolutely love those, the format itself is well overdue for an update.
This post has been edited by ck3D: 02 May 2022 - 01:49 PM
#40 Posted 02 May 2022 - 03:15 PM
despite grinding the level for like a month and a half for the sake of a good video, I somehow never noticed the lack of pigs and Enforcers...
#41 Posted 02 May 2022 - 06:25 PM
I tried to find the "key" to this bonus content by myself, tried really hard but didn't make it since the map was so exhausting to finish as it is, without even searching for some super secrets xD.
So thank you Aleks for releasing this stuff for everyone to see, it was a fascinating read!
So thank you Aleks for releasing this stuff for everyone to see, it was a fascinating read!
#42 Posted 02 June 2022 - 06:42 AM
Same applies to what I said in the BiB thread. Played on CGS. Some brief comments, nitpicks and observations:
Spoiler
#43 Posted 02 June 2022 - 11:54 AM
quakis, on 02 June 2022 - 06:42 AM, said:
Exploration, taking in the sights and observing all the small mechanical feats gave this an adventourous feeling I didn't mind at all we were stuck indoors for a significant chunk of gameplay. Everything had me hooked, figuring out where to go next and what mischief I'll be causing next. Just going in blind and figuring things out along the way worked out fine, trusting the player to add two and two together. I typically enjoy this particular style of objective-focused gameplay over the linear ones, a little more freeform and hands off with the occasional guidance where warranted.
...and thanks for your comments on this one as well! Glad you liked it and reading your comments, I'm satisfied since once again you seemed to experience it just how I'd intend it.
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When I saw that curved path with that sloped-sprite trolley, my first words were before even activating it was "you showoff!". Afterward the sequence I just laughed. Good ol' Build trickery all put to good use.
Took me a really long time to produce a scene that lasts for like 3 seconds, but I guess it was worth it
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That red key conveyer puzzle wasn't as frustrating as I feared. I can stop the movement, that alone made the whole puzzle feel fair, but very tricky to perceive depth properly.
Good to hear that as well, that's probably the boldest thing I've done (besides The Conundrum) in terms of potential players' reactions, but in the end it seems it served its purpose. It was one of the things I had planned really early on, but had no idea on how to approach it until much later, ended up being done in like the last 10-15% of the map.
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Had a bit of a "duhh" moment after getting hold of the shrinker. Couldn't figure out what else to do while passing by those mirrored walls in the caves at least twice, and a small opening just nearby. Took a good moment before I stopped and screamed internally at myself for being such a dunce.
Shrinker recharger thing, on the other hand, was one of the first things made in the whole map (along with another overly elaborate effect with the skycar in the labs), lasting like 12 years before the release. I kinda wanted a bombastic presentation of this to make sure the player realises it's an item required for progression (same with setting the unnaturally long flickering light coming from the small opening where you're supposed to crawl to properly indicate it).
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Like BiB, I'll probably be replaying this when commited to a review, when I'll be able to articulate my thoughts more cohesively. In time.
There's not gonna be any changes in this one, so definitely looking forward to it
