Duke4.net Forums: Your favorite Duke Nukem 3D conversions and clones? - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Your favorite Duke Nukem 3D conversions and clones?

User is offline   JohnBlade 

#1

Hi everyone,

I was wondering what are your favorite Duke Nukem 3D conversions or clones.

Obviously the ground zero for this is eDuke32 with textures pack - I guess everyone here played this.

For me the number one clone is the "Serious Duke 3D" - https://steamcommuni.../?id=1432570016

In my opinion it's exactly how a next gen conversion should look like - sticks with the core values and mechanics but extends a little bit. I would actually be willing to pay say US$50 (like for any great new game) for this if the levels from all 4 episodes were released.

The second nearest clone to Duke Nukem 3D for me always was SiN but it's getting a bit old (1998) and there is not even a texture pack available as far as I know... Hopefully the SiN Reloaded will be solid once it comes out one day: https://store.steamp...0/SiN_Reloaded/

The third one for me would be probably Bulletstorm where they even included Duke in it: https://store.steamp...lletstorm_Tour/

Anything else you can recommend? Any noteworthy conversions or clones of Duke in Quake 2, Quake 3 or Unreal engine?

I really wanted to like the Ion Fury unfortunately the pixelated graphics didn't resonate with me. For me to have a good gaming immersion I need graphics on level of Quake 2 or better. Or is there some sort of mod that would fix that?

Shadow Warrior remake was great in my opinion but not exactly Duke...

Thank you all for your recommendations.
0

User is online   Ninety-Six 

#2

Well, the original Shadow Warrior always looked like a spiritual sequel to Duke 3D itself, to me anyway. So there's that.


Of course what exactly can be defined as a "Duke clone" can be pretty tough to pin down, since Duke 3D was a lot of things. It was one of the first games to let you explore semi-realistic locations, it had a protagonist that dropped one-liners, it helped push the envelope for the kind of content you could get away with in games, there was the interactivity with the environment (which is still almost unparalleled to this day, with only Ion Fury to compete with)...

Really I guess I should be asking you this question: By what standards do you use to measure if something is or is not a Duke clone?
2

User is offline   JohnBlade 

#3

Fair point.

For me it's about the environment of the real city. That's why I liked DN3D EP1 and EP3, not so much the EP2. I like when games have "balls" ie. Red Light district environment in DN3D EP1LVL2 or anything controversial. To be honest the red light district part in Serious Duke 3D was extremely disappointing for me - I would really expect full nudity.

The one liners are not the most important thing for me really but it was nice addition to the game. Also the interactivity of DN3D was nice but not what "made it the game",

What is for me is the exact opposite of Duke is Call of Duty - super corridor shooter attracting masses... If I had to play a war FPS then I would play Far Cry 2 - that was pretty cool - the African conflict...

I sort of liked Half Life (1 and 2) but can't really get myself to replay it again, it's just not interesting enough...
0

#4

View PostJohnBlade, on 14 April 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

I like when games have "balls" ie. Red Light district environment in DN3D EP1LVL2 or anything controversial.


Yeah, likewise. You might like Postal 2 if you haven't already played it. Prob the next closest thing to DN3D although it goes a bit too far in places.
0

User is online   Ninety-Six 

#5

View PostJohnBlade, on 14 April 2021 - 09:33 AM, said:

For me it's about the environment of the real city. That's why I liked DN3D EP1 and EP3, not so much the EP2.


Then yeah, Shadow Warrior fits that, albeit for just part of the game like DN3D itself. Blood as well, to an extent.

An odd one would also be Chex Quest 2 and 3, which are both almost entirely going for that same semi-realistic urban style of level design.

The Left 4 Dead games have exploring zombie-infested cityscapes as one of the series' defining traits, but given the nature of the game it might not allow you to smell the roses.



Conversion-wise, if you'll pardon my heresy, just about anything Sgt. Mark IV has done in terms of mapping takes heavy cues from DN3D. Whether you like Brutal Doom or not, his maps are at least worth checking out (and BD is not really mandatory to play them). Especially in Extermination Day/Hell on Earth Starter pack. That second episode is pure Duke 3D. Even the secret levels are remakes of E1L1 and E1L2.

They Hunger, at least in the second episode, also takes similar ideas but with a much stronger coat of horror-themed paint. But seeing as it's a mod for Half-Life, there's a good chance it won't really change your mind about the game and I respect that. Still, give it a try maybe on a rainy day or something.

Doom 2 In Name Only is a mod for, take a guess, that attempts to make the levels more closely match their level names. This means the city levels much more closely resemble an actual city. That said, there are some issues with the way some of the levels are designed. Worst case scenario, play with no monsters on.

In a similar vein, the mod "Hellbound" goes for a similar thing, except all the levels are original. The beginning and middle sections are strongly based in having you in an urban location built entirely out of Doom 2 assets (with some Duke music to accompany you). Again though, there are some level design issues which result in the levels feeling a bit like a slog. If you play it I recommend you also use the "Final Doomer" gameplay mod, which has a selectable weaponset built specifically for play with Hellbound.


And of course, just about any Duke user map will have city locations. Special mention I will give out to Metropolitan Mayhem for trying to feel like the original game, while also creating some new locations out of stock assets such as a skate park, and Duke Hard, which tries to create a multi-story skyscraper for you to explore floor by floor. There is also Metropolitan Starlight, which is a city in low earth orbit.
2

#6

I actually found Doom 2's No Rest for the Living and Redemption of the Slain as really Duke-like experiences. Hell on Earth Starter Pack has too many hodjpodj elements, I never liked when graphics from different games belnd in one mod. It always feels wrong. The same problem bothered me with Serious Duke 3D. It's SS3, with DNF graphics and some redone Duke3D graphics, so the end result is just meh (albeit I enjoyed the Proton battle, it was a clear highlight).

And episode 1 and episode 2 in Duke have a lot more in common than episode 1 and episode 3. Stuff like pixel nudity doesn't make good levels if you are above 15.

This post has been edited by The Watchtower: 14 April 2021 - 01:47 PM

0

User is online   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#7

View PostImmanuel Cunt, on 14 April 2021 - 09:57 AM, said:

Yeah, likewise. You might like Postal 2 if you haven't already played it. Prob the next closest thing to DN3D although it goes a bit too far in places.

Postal 2 is only as sick as you want to be.
2

User is offline   ReaperAA 

#8

Since some folks are mentioning Doom wads, I would like to chime in and mention Heartland:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/120175-heartland-an-episode-for-the-eternity- engine/

https://i.imgur.com/vquqrjMh.png

https://i.imgur.com/qRXTuZah.png

https://i.imgur.com/r7NVsLSh.png
It is an Eternity Engine exclusive 7-level wad developed by Skillsaw. The levels are set in some sort of deserted industrial heartland. The levels have very Build-like style to them, with the very start of the wad is inside a moving train, windows/glass being breakable, slightly realistic looking areas and bridges that are made by using portal trickery.

This post has been edited by ReaperAA: 15 April 2021 - 01:09 AM

0

User is online   jkas789 

#9

View PostJohnBlade, on 13 April 2021 - 09:01 PM, said:


I really wanted to like the Ion Fury unfortunately the pixelated graphics didn't resonate with me. For me to have a good gaming immersion I need graphics on level of Quake 2 or better. Or is there some sort of mod that would fix that?



I mean... ok.

Anyways, I don't think that Postal 2 is a good clone of Duke Nukem 3D, perhaps in tone (not really but...) but not in gameplay, at least IMO.

Honestly if I had to recommend something with some DN3D DNA would be the the first Wolfenstein: The New Order. It has good shooting, you can take multiple paths to an objective, multiple guns that you can dual wield. Fuck it even has stealth. Funny, the more I think about it the more the gameplay of W:TNO feels like a evolution of DN3D, at least in spirit. Shame the series went down the drain after the second game.

Fuck current day american politics.

Another way to play Doom maps with a Duke Nukem feel would be to use the mod DN3DooM.

This post has been edited by jkas789: 15 April 2021 - 12:57 AM

1

User is offline   ReaperAA 

#10

Another Doom mod/mod combination I would recommend is "Nobody told me about id" and "Doom Re-Build-t"


4

#11

View Postjkas789, on 15 April 2021 - 12:56 AM, said:

Anyways, I don't think that Postal 2 is a good clone of Duke Nukem 3D, perhaps in tone (not really but...) but not in gameplay, at least IMO.

Honestly if I had to recommend something with some DN3D DNA would be the the first Wolfenstein: The New Order.


Yeah, I meant Postal 2 in terms of tone. It's stupid and you've got an edgy talking protagonist. The shooting mechanics hit the mark too in terms of the overall goof factor and creativity of the guns. Of course you've got the quests and an open world, but that's about the only difference I can see. Someone already mentioned Sin which is the real "spiritual successor" I guess, but if you've played that, there's really not much else.

TNO has a blonde dude kicking ass which is like DN3D if you can hang with the left wing bent it has overall. There's very little humor as well.
0

User is online   jkas789 

#12

Yeah, tone in W:TNO really has no relation whatsoever with Duke Nukem at all. Really the first game was all right though. It at least gave me hope for the series (Until the 2nd game at least).

I tried thinking about another game with similarities but honestly after those I'm kinda dry on ideas. I was hoping that a indie game would crop up as a spiritual successor to Duke Nukem 3D but for whatever reason people avoid this like the plague?

This post has been edited by jkas789: 15 April 2021 - 07:31 AM

1

User is offline   MrFlibble 

#13

View PostReaperAA, on 15 April 2021 - 01:08 AM, said:

Another Doom mod/mod combination I would recommend is "Nobody told me about id" and "Doom Re-Build-t"

That's an extremely clever concept and seems well done, judging by the video.

As for the OP's original question, I believe that in the past, there have been attempts to make Duke themed TCs or mods for various games including Quake engine based, but haven't they all been stamped out by 3D Realms at some point, even if said attempts were hardly more anything than single maps? I'm not even talking about Duke3D Reloaded (the Interceptor project -- did I remember the title correctly?).

This post has been edited by MrFlibble: 16 April 2021 - 11:24 AM

0

#14

View PostReaperAA, on 14 April 2021 - 11:20 PM, said:

Since some folks are mentioning Doom wads, I would like to chime in and mention Heartland:

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/120175-heartland-an-episode-for-the-eternity- engine/

It is an Eternity Engine exclusive 7-level wad developed by Skillsaw. The levels are set in some sort of deserted industrial heartland. The levels have very Build-like style to them, with the very start of the wad is inside a moving train, windows/glass being breakable, slightly realistic looking areas and bridges that are made by using portal trickery.


The problem with these kind of wads is that the classic Doom roster doesn't fit in this kind of environment. They are made for startan textured techbases (the cannon fodder class) or hellish environments.

This post has been edited by The Watchtower: 16 April 2021 - 01:34 PM

0

#15

View Postjkas789, on 15 April 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

I was hoping that a indie game would crop up as a spiritual successor to Duke Nukem 3D but for whatever reason people avoid this like the plague?


We can come up with the probable reason if we put our thinking caps on, lol. Maybe the guys who developed Hatred could get away with it. People who come from a cultural climate utterly different from Western liberal democracies.

Or... if you mean a talking protagonist a la Ion Fury I think mostly you're looking at budgetary constraints and a lack of original ideas. You can make an entire game in Unity without hiring outside talent, so people tend to go that route.
0

User is online   jkas789 

#16

View PostImmanuel Cunt, on 16 April 2021 - 02:13 PM, said:

We can come up with the probable reason if we put our thinking caps on, lol. Maybe the guys who developed Hatred could get away with it. People who come from a cultural climate utterly different from Western liberal democracies.

Or... if you mean a talking protagonist a la Ion Fury I think mostly you're looking at budgetary constraints and a lack of original ideas. You can make an entire game in Unity without hiring outside talent, so people tend to go that route.



I'm not talking only about the censorship issue but rather the gameplay itself. Other than Ion Fury (for obvious reasons) there are not a lot of games (if at all) that try and imitate the style, structure and flow of Duke Nukem's gameplay (and for that matter, the rest of classic Build Games)
0

User is online   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#17

99% of artists are cowards who would rather follow the crowd than be blacklisted for having different ideas.
3

User is offline   ReaperAA 

#18

View PostThe Watchtower, on 16 April 2021 - 01:33 PM, said:

The problem with these kind of wads is that the classic Doom roster doesn't fit in this kind of environment. They are made for startan textured techbases (the cannon fodder class) or hellish environments.

I think they work pretty well here though https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif. The textures are not any higher resolution than they are in vanilla Doom and the enemies also have a very slightly darker tone to them (mostly due to slight palette change with the reds being a little bit darker).

I know you're not a fan of custom textures. But in Heartland's case, I would say "Don't knock it until you try it" as you might manage to like it due to the strong Build-ism present in this mapset.

This post has been edited by ReaperAA: 16 April 2021 - 10:37 PM

0

#19

View Postjkas789, on 16 April 2021 - 03:37 PM, said:

I'm not talking only about the censorship issue but rather the gameplay itself. Other than Ion Fury (for obvious reasons) there are not a lot of games (if at all) that try and imitate the style, structure and flow of Duke Nukem's gameplay (and for that matter, the rest of classic Build Games)


I think Build games are exemplified by attention to detail and it's hard to replicate that as one person or a small indie studio. The guy who can feasibly code an entire game and come up with the systems and AI is not going to be equally talented at coming up with interesting levels and art assets. The recent slew of retro shooters have all been done by one or two people, right?

Another issue is, Duke 3D was a real innovation in many ways. There is more excitement when you know you're creating something that's never been seen before, so you go all out. Working together with other people in a studio is also important. Someone can walk over to your desk and point out something funny or interesting that'll end up in the game. Hard to replicate that online.

It's the value of friendship I guess. Strongly bound people all working towards the same goal of making something amazing are much more likely to actually succeed at it. Everyone's all clustered and alienated nowadays, which is reflected in their creative products.

This post has been edited by Immanuel Cunt: 17 April 2021 - 03:32 AM

3

User is offline   JohnBlade 

#20

I had tried both Postal 2 and Postal 4 and I found both games kind of dull - they tried to make it controversial and funny I don't think it sadly comes even close to the DN3D.

How is Redneck Rampage? I remember I tried it really long time ago but I didn't find it super interesting.
0

#21

View Postjkas789, on 15 April 2021 - 07:30 AM, said:

I was hoping that a indie game would crop up as a spiritual successor to Duke Nukem 3D but for whatever reason people avoid this like the plague?


I've long questioned why nobody ever did. So far as I know, Duke3D sold as well as, if not better than Quake in its time, so why did everyone copy Quake and not Duke? Probably because Quake is dumb and oversimplified by comparison, so if they could make that normal to people, they could do less work and still get paid for it.
3

User is online   Ninety-Six 

#22

View PostHigh Treason, on 18 April 2021 - 12:52 AM, said:

I've long questioned why nobody ever did. So far as I know, Duke3D sold as well as, if not better than Quake in its time, so why did everyone copy Quake and not Duke? Probably because Quake is dumb and oversimplified by comparison, so if they could make that normal to people, they could do less work and still get paid for it.


I think it's a bit more complicated than that. The engine probably had a lot to do with it.

It's a very similar problem to why Quake is talked about historically more often than any of the Build games. Quake brought in true 3D, and was a revolution for it, as well as its multiplayer networking. Of course I would argue that one of the reasons it's always talked about for those two things and not the actual single-player campaign is indeed for that simplicity. A simplicity that was already overcome in Build, and arguably even in the Doom engine when looking at Hexen.


1996 was a fascinating year in gaming, as everyone was focused on the leap to true 3D gaming. But as a result of that rush, games that instead maximized the tech that had been present beforehand were forgotten about. I think that is a part of it as well: the maximized tech (for the era) within sector-based engines was significantly more complicated than the more simple and rudimentary true 3D systems. It was a lot easier to build a platform over a floor in 3D than it was to build a Sector-over-Sector that took much more careful planning and arrangement of the scene to look convincing.

That in of itself is also a draw. Less effort was necessary to create what seems to be simple scenes. Duke 3D's film projector room overlooking the theater that had proper floor beneath it was a beautiful example of how far sector-based engines had been pushed. But it took a lot more effort to get right than doing the same thing in Quake, and to someone without an interest in game engines (and especially from a modern lens), it doesn't look anywhere near as impressive in Build as it actually is. To that kind of person, that room in the Build engine seems like too much work for far too little pay.

Of course, what I think was the real strength of the sector engines c. 1996 is that for as impressive as all that was, it was mere novelty. The engines had become robust enough to do a lot more interesting things within the levels and actual gameplay rather than the sheer tech. Duke 3D's interactivity, Hexen's heavy blend of action and RPG with hubs and levels that maintained states between visits, etc. Not that everything attempted was perfect, of course; what I'm trying to say is that the developers were much more confident in both the engines they were using as well as what they themselves could do with them. They were able to trust confidently what these engines could do, because they'd had a lot of experience by then in learning the ins and outs of sectors, what limits were present, and what limits could still be bent.

Meanwhile, true 3D engines were brand new. Full strengths unknown. Entirely unexplored limitations and techniques. Developers were more or less starting over from scratch, having to learn an entirely new school of game design. It's why 3D games were a lot simpler. General game design principles could be carried over into the new generation, but techniques and that confidence in their own experience could not be. Unfortunately, because it was 1996 and because of the True 3D Revolution that everyone was so focused and obsessed on, anything that fell outside of true 3D gaming, no matter how refined, was ignored.


I realize I'm talking in circles; I'm just having a hard time trying to put to words what I want to say.
3

#23

I think a big factor in Quake's success relative to Duke is that Quake is the successor to Doom. I am not surprised at all if it had a larger impact, but Duke did pretty well for itself too all things considered. I suppose the masses enjoyed simplicity over interactivity in the end, and the focus shifted to multiplayer, which is something where the Build engine could never compete.
0

User is offline   MrFlibble 

#24

View PostNinety-Six, on 18 April 2021 - 01:25 AM, said:

It's why 3D games were a lot simpler.

But were they? My knowledge of late 90s Quake mods/TCs is very limited, but I have the impression that, in fact, many modders almost immediately tried to push Quake beyond the original limits; I believe it was part of John Carmack's philosophy to give the players a base for their own creativity, kind of like a sandbox really. And soon after followed games like Half-Life which started to put greater emphasis on narrative as the new engine features provided the necessary tools to create cutscenes and scripted events on a much greater scale than any Build engine would allow to within its original limitations. IIRC certain Doom source ports also followed suit (I think SMMU was one of them) in adding camera views outside the player's POV and scripted scenes.

In fact, it has always puzzled me a bit that there were no direct "Quake clones" in the same sense as the many "Doom clones" that exist (if you don't count CHASM that is). I guess that a more or less straightforward copy of Quake would feel aged not in terms of tech, but in terms of concept, should it have come out in 1997 or later. Hey, even the more innovative shooters like Gunmetal got overlooked and smacked down as yet another attempt to cash in on the popularity of Quake by critics.

I guess that you could call Hades 2 (1999) a crossover between Duke3D and Marathon of sorts, using an engine similar to Build:


On another note, does anyone remember those cancelled Duke-themed Quake maps/TCs? I only remember reading about them (IIRC there was more than one, although not necessarily all for Quake) a long while ago, and that they were all C&D'd by 3D Realms.

I also wonder if there are/were any TCs for Quake or later games that would follow some of Duke3D's design aesthetics without actually being Duke-themed.

UPD: OK, I quickly looked up the forums here for Duke-themed TCs for non-Duke games, but so far only found this project for Half-Life - looks like his one was not simply C&D'd but straight out damnatio memoriae'd as there appear no surviving videos or screenshots. I vaguely remember something like E1L1 recreation in Quake (?) but not finding it here right now.
1

User is offline   Kerr Avon 

#25

Surely Duke Nukem: Zero Hour, the Nintendo 64 exclusive, is the best and most Duke-ish game that followed DN3D? Not only is it a really good game, game-play wise, but it does everything right by Duke too, displaying his ego, his sarcasm, his fearlessness, and his eagerness to face the enemy. The game is atmospheric, with lots of innuendo-laden posters and shop signs and so on, and via the mysteries of time travel you visit several different time periods and world locations (such as Victorian England, and the wild west), complete with both period specific weapons and people native to that time. It's a third person shooter, but you can play it in first person mode, activated either by the push button cheats, or by unlocking the first person mode as an in-game rewards. There are secrets to be found, many human and alien weapons for you to wield, and it even has weather effects (rare for a 1999 game, especially on the humble old N64).

Here's a fair review of the game:



Though in that review, the game looks ugly as it's been stretched to widescreen, despite it being strictly a 4:3 game, and the colours looked washed out. Not that you'd expect a twenty-two year old game running on a 4MB 1996 console to look good nowadays, of course. Still, if you play it on an emulator, then you can use much higher resolutions than the N64 itself could produce, and N64 games do tend to look reasonably nice in modern resolutions when used with a decent emulator.


Note that despite the time travel theme, being third person, and a few other similarities, this is an entirely different game to the Playstation's Duke Nukem: Time to Kill. Time to Kill isn't a bad game, but Zero Hour is *much* better, plus they are two different game types really, with DN:ZH being a third person shooter, whilst DN:TTK is more of a Tomb Raider style game, having much more platforming and climbing than Zero Hour has.
1

#26

View PostKerr Avon, on 23 April 2021 - 11:56 AM, said:

It's a third person shooter, but you can play it in first person mode


Huh, interesting. Here's what that looks like:


1

User is online   ck3D 

#27

I was dying to get Duke Zero Hour as a kid, but I think the game was either poorly distributed here or just came out too late but I could never find it anywhere. IIRC it's a Build game as well, runs on a modified version of the engine. I posted a video of someone converting the first map into Duke 3D not so long ago and then Jimmy said he had been ripping Zero Hour art and sharing it before. Always thought it would be cool to get some kind of official unofficial .art pack, I think it may be the Duke game that's stayed the more authentic to the vibe of the originals since Duke 3D. I never played Time To Kill either but that game always looked off to me and like people say a Tomb Raider clone, but I always thought it was funny how they reused the whole time travel shtick in the N64 game.

This post has been edited by ck3D: 23 April 2021 - 12:36 PM

0

#28

Love Life's a Beach!
1

User is offline   Hank 

#29

May I add ???

Mark’s Grave Yard
https://forums.duke4...ease-graveyard/
and (Tea Monster and Mark)
Duke Rethinked
https://forums.duke4...page__p__285663

Maybe not much, but like the OP asked, what almost breaks the boundaries of EDuek32. Catch? Simple. EDuek32 is very hard to understand, programing wise, let alone trying to improve its looks. AND!! I love Mark. and Tea Monster for their hard work, and feel it's fair to place them in this thread.

p.s. both would do much better in joining, CryEngine or even Unity 3D, with their awesome talents, but they choose to stick with EDuke32.
0

User is offline   JohnBlade 

#30

View PostHank, on 23 April 2021 - 06:18 PM, said:

May I add ???

Mark’s Grave Yard
https://forums.duke4...ease-graveyard/
and (Tea Monster and Mark)
Duke Rethinked
https://forums.duke4...page__p__285663

Maybe not much, but like the OP asked, what almost breaks the boundaries of EDuek32. Catch? Simple. EDuek32 is very hard to understand, programing wise, let alone trying to improve its looks. AND!! I love Mark. and Tea Monster for their hard work, and feel it's fair to place them in this thread.

p.s. both would do much better in joining, CryEngine or even Unity 3D, with their awesome talents, but they choose to stick with EDuke32.


Duke Rethinked was really nice - thanks a lot. So sad it was so short...
1

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks not owned by Voidpoint, LLC are the sole property of their respective owners. Play Ion Fury! ;) © Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options