[jkas789]

So Terminx was nice enough to boot up one of ye old mysterious betas and show us some screenshots of November 1995 beta. Of interest are the presence of the flamethrower (still sucks) destructible camera monitors and prison bars, a new trapped babe sprite and the usual level layout differences.

49 screenshots were taken were taken so I uploaded them to a imgur album. I also attached them to the post as a zip file if you want to download them together.

Album of the pictures

Zip File of the screenshots:  Duke Nukem 3D November 1995 Beta Screenshots - Taken by Terminx.zip (6.1MB)
Number of downloads: 365


There were also some interesting insights from the thread so for those who are interested here is the discord message link of the first post: https://discord.com/...039392435568691

Because I know some of the people here do not use Discord, I attached a text file with the thread messages as well.  DN3D Nov 95 Screenshot discord message thread.txt (16.37K)
Number of downloads: 261

The names of the screenshots files in the zip file are time stamped so if you are going along on the text file you are not gonna get so lost.

Cheers and thanks to Terminx for the sneak peak.

[ck3D]

^ Damn E1L2 layout used to look fucked up if that's what I'm seeing, so basically you used to be able to loop back to the main street after the bar if so you wanted? Makes sense and would have actually added some depth to those last few corridors (as well as more options in DM). If that's obviously not E1L2 I'm sorry, I'm not sober right now (rarely am in general, not necessarily advocating).

Very cool of you to share those screenshots, thanks! Haven't checked out the .txt so sorry if the layout topic was already covered.

[brullov]

Can't find my jaw. Amazing.

[Ninety-Six]

The Abyss looks hilarious with how flat it is. That said, it looks like there was more stuff involving the exterior of the ship in the older version. A firefight atop the ship, and a battle in the lava it was resting in; as opposed to a linear trek with some platforming. And the only lava battles were against a couple of octabrains in the caves instead of near the ship's base. Of course there's something to be said for a mostly quiet journey to the final battle, but even so. A gauntlet in the style of what we eventually got for Hollywood Inferno would have also been a climactic way to end the shareware episode.


Also I know it's old hat by now but this is actually my first time seeing the old shotgun. It's amazing how insanely close it resembles its DNF incarnation. I guess they were both based on the same model?

[jkas789]

ck3D, on 18 March 2021 - 06:16 AM, said:

^ Damn E1L2 layout used to look fucked up if that's what I'm seeing, so basically you used to be able to loop back to the main street after the bar if so you wanted? Makes sense and would have actually added some depth to those last few corridors (as well as more options in DM). If that's obviously not E1L2 I'm sorry, I'm not sober right now (rarely am in general, not necessarily advocating).

Very cool of you to share those screenshots, thanks! Haven't checked out the .txt so sorry if the layout topic was already covered.

You should really be thanking Terminx. He was cool enough to share this.

Also this is so interesting to see. I would have loved for the breakable bars and the babe sprite to have remained. DN3D has a lot of cut content that it would be cool if someone modded in.

[comorbidity]

There's a lot of real gems in there.

Thanks for sharing the screenshots with the rest of the world!

[necroslut]

I'm really confused by the editor screenshot of E1L2 -- I really can't place the locations shown in the screenshots there.
It's very interesting how much they changed the club area though -- simplified and shortened, even. You can see there's still a lot left of the LameDuke club (or clubs -- both merged into one).
Would absolutely love to see more of it or, dare I dream, play it.

[DNSKILL5]

Ninety-Six, on 18 March 2021 - 07:14 AM, said:

Also I know it's old hat by now but this is actually my first time seeing the old shotgun. It's amazing how insanely close it resembles its DNF incarnation. I guess they were both based on the same model?

They're both based on the Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun.

In DN3D's case, it is the actual shotgun being photographed into sprites. Obviously in DNF it's a 3D model rendition.

The shotgun is still the same gun in these beta photos and the final DN3D, as in it's the same model of shotgun being used to make the sprites.
ICYMI:

Spoiler

https://www.youtube....h?v=GUIx628Bxxw

[ck3D]

necroslut, on 18 March 2021 - 08:35 AM, said:

I'm really confused by the editor screenshot of E1L2 -- I really can't place the locations shown in the screenshots there.
It's very interesting how much they changed the club area though -- simplified and shortened, even. You can see there's still a lot left of the LameDuke club (or clubs -- both merged into one).
Would absolutely love to see more of it or, dare I dream, play it.

Redundant, but the more I look at it the more I'm puzzled by that connection from what looks like the end of the map back to the street area I was talking about earlier, now I'm wondering if it was done away with because although using the jetpack from E1L1 (did E1L1 even have the jetpack at the time?) to reach the apartment atop of the porn store could be deemed acceptable as a skip, flying straight to the end of the map was intolerable and yet technically an equal possibility. It also looks like the whole area around the destructible building really wasn't there yet.

On one of those other screenshots, I also appreciated what looks like one of the infamous teeth doors that eventually went unused (IIRC) amongst plenty of other neat things.

Kinda bummed I didn't get to catch that stream, I assume there was some kind of no video capture policy which everyone obviously respected, but screenshots were fine? Or is the video still replayable somewhere and I'm out of touch? No, it's the kids who are wrong.

[jkas789]

ck3D, on 18 March 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

Kinda bummed I didn't get to catch that stream, I assume there was some kind of no video capture policy which everyone obviously respected, but screenshots were fine? Or is the video still replayable somewhere and I'm out of touch? No, it's the kids who are wrong.

Terminx unfortunately did not stream it, I assume because of legal reasons. He basically was playing the first episode and he was taking screenshots of parts that caught his interest.

I would love for him to make a video on it, but I don't think it's worth it if Gearbox is gonna come at him like a pile of rocks.

[ck3D]

Oh yeah no for sure. I had misunderstood your original post originally and assumed that a quick basic playthrough had been streamed somewhere during which you yourself would have taken those still screenshots, all makes sense now. Really cool to see this regardless.

[OpenMaw]

This is great! Is there any chance we could see the footage? I'd love to see some of this stuff actually moving around.

[Lunick]

I'm not sure if it was the same build but you missed including this screenshot of Hollywood Holocaust

[Ninety-Six]

Interesting version of that wall texture, there. It has some cracks and signs of decay not present in the version shown in the final.

Also was this build before the stretching and warping of textures was a thing? It's odd to see them tile so visibly.

[jkas789]

Lunick, on 18 March 2021 - 04:42 PM, said:

I'm not sure if it was the same build but you missed including this screenshot of Hollywood Holocaust

Not the same Build afaik, but still pretty fucking cool!

[Fox]

I'm surprised they made the cinema flat in the final version. Even a simple slope would make it without adding any more walls. >_>

[NNC]

They badly fucked up Red Light District for the final version. Honestly, I used to say that Launch Facility is the weakest map in LA Meltdown, because it has many empty rooms, and doesn't have the sense of place of the other maps, but at least the map has a great layout, and the shading adds a nice foreboding atmosphere to it. The only thing that bothers me now is the actual rocket launch, that didn't age too well, and it looks like an explosion instead of an actual launch.

Nowadays, I have to say Red Light District is the weakest map in the episode. Sure it had its strippers, which makes it popular, but the daylight brightness level of the streets, the questionable texturing (I'm looking at you, tile 346), and the fucked up layout in the bar clearly put it at the bottom of the barrel for me. The way they placed the actual bar next to the pool table in screenshot #7 makes more sense (not to mention the much more believable bar in the Lameduke L6 level), while in the final version everything is separated nonsensically through large corridors. That doesn't resemble any real place IMHO, and isn't good gameplay wise either. Also it's sad that the street got emptier, I really miss the traffic lights for example, and the garage start, which still exists in the v0.99 beta should have been there too.

I don't think we lost too much value from the rest, The Abyss certainly was changed for the better, maybe some of the lost Hollywood Holocaust details and rooms like the toilet should be good addition, but the map still looks great even after 25 years.

[Fox]

The Watchtower, on 18 March 2021 - 11:08 PM, said:

it looks like an explosion instead of an actual launch.

It is an explosion. You can see the remains of the rocket.

The Watchtower, on 18 March 2021 - 11:08 PM, said:

Nowadays, I have to say Red Light District is the weakest map in the episode. Sure it had its strippers, which makes it popular, but the daylight brightness level of the streets, the questionable texturing (I'm looking at you, tile 346), and the fucked up layout in the bar clearly put it at the bottom of the barrel for me. The way they placed the actual bar next to the pool table in screenshot #7 makes more sense (not to mention the much more believable bar in the Lameduke L6 level), while in the final version everything is separated nonsensically through large corridors. That doesn't resemble any real place IMHO, and isn't good gameplay wise either. Also it's sad that the street got emptier, I really miss the traffic lights for example, and the garage start, which still exists in the v0.99 beta should have been there too.

I don't think we lost too much value from the rest, The Abyss certainly was changed for the better, maybe some of the lost Hollywood Holocaust details and rooms like the toilet should be good addition, but the map still looks great even after 25 years.

Many of the changes were due to performance. I suppose they also wanted to make the gameplay more straightforwards.

Edit:

I had seen that ending of E1L2 before

[NNC]

Actually, with exactly 2 minutes of Build hacking you can interconnect the pool area and the bar in the final version.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[TerminX]

The Watchtower, on 19 March 2021 - 12:41 AM, said:

Actually, with exactly 2 minutes of Build hacking you can interconnect the pool area and the bar in the final version.

That one was changed because clipping problems in the engine at the time were letting the LIZTROOPs clip through the fence.

[NNC]

TerminX, on 19 March 2021 - 03:59 AM, said:

That one was changed because clipping problems in the engine at the time were letting the LIZTROOPs clip through the fence.

So actually I got it right. Thanks for the insight, TX.

I always thought this area is weird, because no real bar looks like this. With the fences, it makes much more sense, even the side wall can be changed to a fence, and you will get a properly looking club. I'm wondering how many similar cuts and changes were made through the levels, maybe it deserves its own list. In the original L6 level, even the stripper area was integrated with the rest of the level, but I guess it needs a complete overhaul in the final version to make them interconnected.

Btw. they should have used liztroop stayput instead of traditional liztroops if they were fearing about this issue.

[Ninety-Six]

Fox, on 18 March 2021 - 10:43 PM, said:

I'm surprised they made the cinema flat in the final version. Even a simple slope would make it without adding any more walls. >_>

It might have been for the fight in that room. Since entering from the emergency exit is the normal path through the level, the player would have been at a disadvantage being lower down than their targets. And while true that there are lizards in the air and on the theater ledge in the final, the key difference is that your line of fight to them isn't blocked, which it would have been with the slope thanks to the rows of higher-stacked chairs.

And yeah I know it's been done in user maps and isn't ever all that bad, but don't forget: this was level 1 of the shareware episode. If they made the introduction to the introduction to their game needlessly frustrating they might have lost some people.

[necroslut]

The more I look at the mapster shot, the more confused I get. Are they really from the same version? That image of the bar shouldn't be able to exist in that map.

Also, where is the pool table in the mapster shot? And the pigcop monster closet outside the strip club door?

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[jkas789]

necroslut, on 19 March 2021 - 07:08 AM, said:

The more I look at the mapster shot, the more confused I get. Are they really from the same version? That image of the bar shouldn't be able to exist in that map.

Also, where is the pool table in the mapster shot? And the pigcop monster closet outside the strip club door?

My bad, you were right (I think).

This is the context of that picture.

[necroslut]

jkas789, on 19 March 2021 - 07:58 AM, said:

My bad, you were right (I think).

This is the context of that picture.

Ohh that explains it then. Man, I'm starting to feel like E1L2 went through a Seppuku Station and, as good as the map is, actually might have been better originally.

ck3D, on 18 March 2021 - 03:18 PM, said:

Redundant, but the more I look at it the more I'm puzzled by that connection from what looks like the end of the map back to the street area I was talking about earlier, now I'm wondering if it was done away with because although using the jetpack from E1L1 (did E1L1 even have the jetpack at the time?) to reach the apartment atop of the porn store could be deemed acceptable as a skip, flying straight to the end of the map was intolerable and yet technically an equal possibility.

It looks like it was a destructible wall, so skipping ahead shouldn't be a problem if it can only be blown out from the inside.

[Aleks]

Great screens, thanks TerminX for sharing them and Jac for collecting them into a single archive!

Some of the ideas from these sound pretty cool, but I guess most stuff has been changed for the better. These "monsters in the closets" look kinda cheap, particularly it's relieving to know how nicely it was changed in Red Light District for the guys jumping in. New podgirls look interesting, kinda more advanced than the ones we have in game, would probably work better story-wise (even at the "Nobody steals our chicks... And lives" ending screen of E1, as a way to transport them on the alien ship). Not sure about having more breakable stuff like bars or viewscreens though.

E1L1:
Glad that tile #783 (texture on the walls of the cinema) was changed, so it doesn't tile vertically, also glad it was changed for curtains in the cinema room. However, I would love to see #742 (cinema ceiling) with a square option, would probably use it myself a lot more often then.

E1L2:
I wouldn't go as far as saying E1L2 would have been a better level like that. While the bar might look better with the fence, for gameplay purpose it's more logical to have it room-by-room like it was kept in the original game. Also I did visit a lot of bars which had strange connections like that, passing from a room to room etc., so it doesn't feel that much out of place now that I give it more thought. The interconnection from the end would be cool for multiplayer and make more sense than the teleporter in the bathroom.

E1L5:
The flat beginning of the level looks a bit poor indeed, but I'm more concerned about the later part, as it seems to be missing the essence - all the weird puzzles before the lava rocks open up, which is my favourite part! Not to mention how much better the end result of the ship's interior looks like.

The Watchtower, on 18 March 2021 - 11:08 PM, said:

(I'm looking at you, tile 346)

It's a very versatile texture, though, but yeah, it's definitely overused especially in the bar in E1L2 (and often poorly aligned). I love Red Light District, but yeah, I can agree it's probably the weakest level of E1.

[NNC]

necroslut, on 19 March 2021 - 10:02 AM, said:

Ohh that explains it then. Man, I'm starting to feel like E1L2 went through a Seppuku Station and, as good as the map is, actually might have been better originally.

At this moment I would say the quality rank of episode one looka like this IMHO: L1 > L3 > L5 > L4 > L6 > L2

[duke3d.exe]

What's the backstory on this? how did Terminx get access to this beta? how many people got access to it? How many unreleased betas are out there?

[Lunick]

duke3d.exe, on 19 March 2021 - 03:31 PM, said:

What's the backstory on this? how did Terminx get access to this beta? how many people got access to it? How many unreleased betas are out there?

It is a mystery!

[OpenMaw]

duke3d.exe, on 19 March 2021 - 03:31 PM, said:

What's the backstory on this? how did Terminx get access to this beta? how many people got access to it? How many unreleased betas are out there?

The only beta that is "out there" is the v0.99 beta. All the versions shown by the guys at VP/3DR are unreleased versions.