[ck3D]

Thanks people. If anyone has suggestions of stuff they would like to go down in the Star Fox level, I'm well open to them - I have this bunch of ideas involving uncommon use and/or combination of effects to spice the ride up that I have yet to experiment with for the most part really, but I really want to keep the player somewhat engaged the whole time (again think Star Fox 64 perhaps). I have spaceship chases and whatnot but monsters don't really work well there because of the scale and how shit the AI is really not recognizing the player from too much of a distance, or just wandering there passively and never attacking. I'm finding myself coding some monster variants that actually work better with the general set-up, but I also don't want the action to ever become redundant and so I can't exactly rely on those too much.

I'm a bit iffy about the autoscroller aspect. I've said it before but I always wanted to make this whole episode as interesting for speedrunning as for casual play, when the direction this level in particular is taking is fixed time (at least for a bit) but the challenge to get 100% kills (some enemies your ship will just zoom by if you're not reactive and quick enough). Maybe that's actually peak troll for 100% speedruns though, since it comes right at the end.

So yeah, I'm experimenting with this one - always knew I wanted those settings and aesthetics but the ship ride idea is pretty new, so ideas of scenarii are bubbling in real time right now. If someone ever contributes with one that I like and end up using, I'll obviously credit them. Parallaxed sky logic allows for a lot of quirky stuff, I'm still kind of learning my way around it as we speak, but there's a plethora of what otherwise would be odd-looking stuff that's implementable here, for instance I want to experiment with enemy ships that come up and down. Big restriction is to never break the track sector but with stretchable walls to be moved out of the way (which is another thing I want to try pulling off, perhaps to force the player to shoot at switches).

[Ninety-Six]

I admit I'm having trouble visualizing this in my head, so I can't make any suggestions to that effect.

I do have a surface-level ask, though. Do you think you could use Sector X for this level? That was always a personal favorite of mine, as it was quite dark and somber as you flew through the wreckage. Kind of fits the idea of flying through earth wreckage that had been blasted into space. That is, of course, assuming Nintendo doesn't throw a bitchfit.

Spoiler

It was also one of the only two songs in the original game that weren't hampered by the terrible instrument choice

[ck3D]

That's crazy, I was also thinking about a Sector X connection to this level, via an Easter egg or gameplay sequence or something really yet to be defined in form. That was always one of my favorite levels in that game too, with that crazy Spyborg boss obsessively asking for the creator (I was thinking of somehow referencing this particular line out of the whole level, to be especially accurate - would tie in with the ongoing lore). Those branching pathways, and those portals you need to shoot and speed through for the warp - the latter being a good representation of the exact type of action I want to try and emulate, which so far takes the form of trying to get 100% kills.

I'm not sure about using soundtrack from a different (and especially Nintendo, yeah) game, I prefer it when references are a tiny bit more subtle or at least indirect (saying that, but 'map 1' actually has one big ass niche Nintendo reference somewhere). But going for a Sector X vibe in general, for sure, and again it's funny how that already kind of was the plan. I'll look into finding similar music that comes close to the vibes and see how well that works alright!

Listening to that level theme for the first time independently from the game and its sound effects right now and holy shit you're right, it's pretty cool and unique. Challenge accepted to try and achieve something like that, it's not going to be easy but I'm keen on that groove.

Oh and for visualization, that's simple, for now at least the entire level is one big two-way (well, practically one-way) train ride from point A to point B where you're locked inside your cockpit and stuff happens on the way. Doesn't sound exciting at all which is part of why I want to see if I can make it that.

[ck3D]

Experimenting with ways of coming up with hopefully interesting gameplay on screens 1 and 2, look who's making a comeback on screen 3, and pseudo-Build porn on screen 4 (inaccessible in-game, but close enough to what you can see). I'm a bit less worried about gameplay options than I was earlier as I keep slowly finding out more stuff that works, making fine adjustments that all add up and still have multiple ideas I have yet to even attempt laying out; process is a bit all over the place as the format is new to me and exciting. I'm already at 12000 walls and so I figure this is very likely to just be a short transition map. One more reason to try and break the static shooting gallery style, but that's really not so easy.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 
• 

[ck3D]

Pig in space - oh noes!

Placeholder sprite though, I want some new Pigcop variations in general and even this one here is more of a joke than anything. Still fine-tuning whatever there is of gameplay as I go and getting satisfying results there, but that's most likely going to need some of the new enemies to work at its best.

But I'm almost done with this 'level', 1400 sectors/14000 walls, about to start designing the last sequence which I think will be the most welcome variation and change of pace from the ship ride, I think I've found the song too. After that it's boss map and secret map time, all the while getting the new enemy art done would align perfectly for finalization and testing sometime over this or the next semester. Anyway, level design should be a pretty casual ride from this point on.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[Ninety-Six]

hype is beginning

[ck3D]

I always appreciate your posts, 2022 release is certain as this April will mark three years spent working on one project which to me is a long time (kinda cool though as that's how long a single user map used to take me), but also an investment I take seriously enough to want to avoid rushing anything out of the door, hence such leeway in the date. Sitting on what's starting to really resemble a playable product feels satisfying but there's also some stuff here and there in the past maps I have yet to finalize or fix, and while most of the code is there (the changes are really basic) I have no idea when Jay will be available to help with the new enemy art, but I'd venture the guess of throughout spring. Summer release would be neat-o.

I also have yet to try converting this huge scrapped A.W.O.L. map into a Duke map and see if that plays well enough to fit as one more secret map in there.

[Ninety-Six]

ck3D, on 15 January 2022 - 10:14 PM, said:

this April will mark three years spent working on one project

Holy crap. I didn't realize it had been that long already. Feels like only a few months ago you started showing this off in the What Are You Working on thread.

[ck3D]

OK so map 11 is structurally complete - thought that was the case last night already after I had designed the end of the ship ride, but that semi-abrupt ending was boring; so today I went and designed a proper finale for the level, also to break the monotony from the shooting gallery phase and add at least some randomness for speedrunning any %. About 500 sector effectors later I think I pulled off something that's kinda cool (or so I hope because I had been willing to make something like that for a while now), not going to spoil in detail but here's a collage of screenshots and maybe you can figure out what exactly I did - nothing too crazy but at the core lies a fun little gameplay mechanic I haven't really seen.

Map basically needs some ambient sounds and an extra door or two but I'm ready to tackle one of, if not both the last two maps I'm certain I still want - so boss and secret.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[ck3D]

I'm having way too much fun with the boss map - started it yesterday, currently at 175 sectors/800 walls/3000 sprites and only bound to keep growing fast - break from the project whilst working on A.W.O.L. was as great as expected for perspective and so I already know how to make everything. I'm only going to spoil so much of the finale but yeah, here's an early, tiny bit. The surrounding black walls are just for a e s t h e t i c s - soon enough there will be stuff.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 
• 

[ck3D]

Been expanding map 12 a bit, not just laterally but also even more vertically. Looking a bit rough still but this one should be fun times (and also metal).

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 

[Dynamo128]

Very nice screenshots! Glad to see it is proceeding at a brisk pace And yeah, I've always wanted to see a pigcop in a space suit (for example the suit that was supposed to be a powerup in the duke3d beta which later became a simple prop), but alas, many pigcop variants have been made but not that particular one to my knowledge.

[ck3D]

Well I want exactly a Pigcop in a space suit (just for this brief little section too), so if things go according to plan you might finally get to at least see one! Pigcop is basically the only enemy variant I really want different versions of, too, so that won't be the only new one - and I think you can expect some funky ones from Jay if he ends up doing them because I really dig his style.

Thanks for the regular comments, by the way, I'm really looking forward to you experiencing this. And yeah progress has resumed for good it seems, I'm 500 sectors into the boss map right now and having a blast designing it (no wack pun intended). Only worry is I'm also struggling to keep up with tons of work and responsibilities on the side to the point where mapping or even posting right now almost feels unreasonable but hey, one's gotta relax sometimes. Can't wait to finalize everything and start working with Jay on the art to really wrap things up, that's more and more imminently the next step now besides the secret map(s). Cheers!

[ck3D]

Boss map growth.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 

[Aleks]

Love the mix of "hu-man" and alien textures you use for the architecture there, especially on the 1st shot. Curious how will this look in the end. Just not sure about the sky texture - the pitch-blackness seems too radical at least from these screenshots (yeah I know it's the city skybox with pal 7), not sure how will it set the mood for the whole map tho and dunno if you're gonna keep it or still experiment.

[ck3D]

Thanks Aleks, honestly I'm curious about the outcome too! Pitch black walls are just me giving pal 4 to apparent texture 0 prior to taking the screenshots otherwise it just ruins the vibe since the sky is like two million z-units tall, if I didn't do that you'd see a lot of grey bricks that stick out (but now you're also missing out on some cool alien cliffs). I'm indeed not sure about the actual sky though, I might or might not keep it, just need a placeholder for the intended vibes as I keep working on all the rest. Cheers!

tl;dr I see a texture 0 wall and I want it painted black.

[ck3D]

Got some progress today, right now we be at around 920 sectors and 6500 walls and sprites, map is expanding in pretty much every way including in layers I'm not showing and most likely will keep growing fast till completion. (I'm going a tad in with the Duke Nukem I & II references, also pitch black walls in lieu of tile #0 again, and ship floor textures need realigning)

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 

[Aleks]

This is looking better with each screenshot and the more I look at it and all your DN1/DN2 referencing, the more I think the black walls might not be the worst idea to keep at the end. I remember there were some levels in 3rd episode of DN1 with completely black background and based completely on platforming over some hanging platforms, the navigation was a nightmare ever in these, but at least they were quite memorable.

The 3rd screenshot is my favourite from these, whole architecture looks wonderful on all, but here the platforming "stairs" really look awesome, and that little globe is a cool idea, love it!

[ck3D]

Yeah, again the pitch black walls really are something I'm doing real quick for the screenshots but of course I wouldn't if that meant a departure from the intended final look; I'm actually not 100% decided (may or may not turn things around last minute) but still pretty sure I want a rather dark look so that all the platforms and lights pop out. The backgrounds in both Duke 1 & 2 have been inspirations for sure, I'm low-key trying to see how close I can get to honoring those vibes in 3D Duke for fun.

Some more progress on map 12/boss, it's getting pretty big now, also in terms of things to do (the mini Queens are leftovers from a testing session, please don't take them for granted). I also sunk a first twenty minutes into porting my scrapped A.W.O.L. map to Duke - textures have been converted in bulk so everything is still misaligned and off (screens 4 & 5) but that may be going somewhere too.

[Mike Norvak]

Ninety-Six, on 16 January 2022 - 09:31 AM, said:

Holy crap. I didn't realize it had been that long already. Feels like only a few months ago you started showing this off in the What Are You Working on thread.

Same here, what universe is this, again?

[ck3D]

Ah yeah, please don't remind me, haha. Project is a legit slice of life at this point, going to feel great once out of the way and in the hands of people.

I keep considering being a bit quieter with screenshots but then the map just keeps growing extra dimensions each day, it's a particularly exciting theme to work with. Red cliffs to be turned into actual red cliffs instead of flat walls soon, I'm thinking of enclosing this portion of the map already, off the top of my head I'm at about 10000 walls so a bit over halfway done.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 

[ck3D]

The cliffs are now real and I've been peppering a lot of new locations around the map - learned a new effect from the Build porn thread too, which I'm stoked on. Screen 3 is a bonus showing a new basic cave section with some strong contrasted shading and dynamic lighting everywhere, aka. The Best. Aesthetics are getting closer to final so I think I really will keep this particular level low-key from now on, I feel like I've shown just the right amount of skin. Oh yeah - by the way - this will be a pretty hard map.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 
• 
• 

[Dynamo128]

I really like the colored stripes the buildings have, which I imagine are animated... Also, those stacked turrets are straight up vicious

[ck3D]

Dynamo128, on 05 February 2022 - 03:14 AM, said:

I really like the colored stripes the buildings have, which I imagine are animated... Also, those stacked turrets are straight up vicious

Yes, a lot of those textures are animated, there's a lot you can do with stretching the base animated textures all the way down or to the side and then playing with repeat values (to show different patterns every time) and/or palettes. That's something people have been doing for a long time, stretched textures looking good are the exception vs. the norm though but here I'm trying to explore the idea a bit and find the best possible happy medium between moody aesthetics and tolerable practice. Again theme is a nice little opportunity to go a bit wilder, my only restraint is not breaking away from the style in the other maps that I have established.

Map has been growing again since that last post, I'm playing around with coming up with a sector/wall boss section à la Zaxtor out of all things, trying to see if I can make a convincing one that doesn't feel too static. If I can get that sequence to work then it'll stay, so far so good though! I have something like 5000 walls left, hope I won't run out (been a little while since I last had that worry, ha). Once I'm done with that then I'm getting ahead on the secret maps, hopefully as Jay's schedule frees up to help work on the new enemy art as well, but all should sync up. Thanks again for the continued interest!

Oh and those turrets don't shoot... yet. I do need to come up with a way to make them more distinguishable from the red turrets I've coded in as an actual enemy in the meantime though.

[ck3D]

ck3D, on 05 February 2022 - 09:08 AM, said:

Map has been growing again since that last post, I'm playing around with coming up with a sector/wall boss section à la Zaxtor out of all things, trying to see if I can make a convincing one that doesn't feel too static. If I can get that sequence to work then it'll stay

A handful of hours later, I can confirm the sector boss thing is staying (miniboss, not final). Was half a joke at first, then one idea led to another and now I think it's one of my favorite sequences I've ever built, hopefully people will dig it!

[Merlijn]

Looks really good, I get a lot of Zaxtor vibes from those latest screenshots (and that's even without the wall boss you mentioned).
Only thing I'm not sure about is the city background. I don't know the full context, but I saw chunks of city being blasted into orbit in the previous map. So having an intact city skybox in the last map seems a bit off to me.
Perhaps you should just go with a black void haha. But again, I don't know the complete context and I'm sure you have your reasons for choosing this particular skybox.

[ck3D]

Merlijn, on 07 February 2022 - 08:33 AM, said:

Looks really good, I get a lot of Zaxtor vibes from those latest screenshots (and that's even without the wall boss you mentioned).
Only thing I'm not sure about is the city background. I don't know the full context, but I saw chunks of city being blasted into orbit in the previous map. So having an intact city skybox in the last map seems a bit off to me.
Perhaps you should just go with a black void haha. But again, I don't know the complete context and I'm sure you have your reasons for choosing this particular skybox.

I'm actually so very glad you posted exactly this - means part of my plan is working. Very astute catch!

[ck3D]

I mapped all night so late I'm getting hit by early morning urgent work emails but here's a quick update before I move on, map is about 1500 sectors/11500 walls/8500 sprites, I basically 'only' have the last third to design (but it's supposed to be a pretty ambitious one), progress is going well, I'm stoked. Here's a random screenshot from a playtesting session.

Attached thumbnail(s)

• 

[Maarten]

Love the unique vibe your episode is going, ck3d!
I'm too lazy to read all the stuff, but this is promising. Are you inspired by Billy Boy? I've played your recent released map as well and it really felt special/on it's own..and I enjoyed it!

[ck3D]

Thank you Maarten, and I'm glad you liked the new map as well! I'm only inspired by Billy Boy in that I don't exactly try and make stuff that would look like his style, but over the past few years I've developed a more personal taste for Duke maps and authors and Billy Boy and Zaxtor (R.I.P.) have become two of my top favorite mappers for sure. Not so much for how readable their levels were (I'm trying to focus on flow a bit more), but the scale they used to plan on paired up with effect selection (basically more focus on the 'practical' ones that actually enhance gameplay with concrete mechanics, and less on cosmetics), and the speed at which they used to build (especially in Zaxtor's case) are definitely references of mine. Billy Boy in particular was good at taking the strengths the original Duke 3D had (physics, Build engine quirks etc.) and taking them to another level (when Zaxtor's approach was arguably a bit more convoluted).