[Forge]

the point is to discourage people from doing something that has the potential to kill other people.
driving is dangerous enough, deliberately driving impaired moreso

i don't agree with the current methods of discouragement.
other methods are intrusive, but not to the point of violating privacy and civil rights - an example would be to put breathalyzer ignitions in all vehicles.

fool proof? no.
but it would reduce the number of intoxicated drivers on the road.

[Jimmy]

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 08:31 PM, said:

Come back to me on that when people you care about die because of some retard who got behind the wheel drunk.

Why would I care if they were drunk? I would care that they killed someone. And as you mentioned, there are plenty of legal circumstances people engage in all the time that end up causing accidents all the time. An emotional argument is the WORST argument. Reckless driving and killing people are already illegal. Those are the crimes, and sober people do it all the time.

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 08:31 PM, said:

What's next? You're gonna tell me you'd be fine with some meth head running around waving guns at people? Probably not, because he's not fit to wield them in that situation any more than he's fit to drive (and I'm pro gun, before you start), a line simply has to be drawn somewhere.

Being high on meth is irrelevant. Threatening someone with a firearm is already a crime.

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 08:31 PM, said:

Do what you want on your own property, that's nobody's business. If you want to down a whole fridge worth of booze and operate your bandsaw, go ahead, but don't take a multiple ton machine out onto the public roads and put everyone else at risk because of your idiotic behavior, and don't expect sympathy when you wind up hurting yourself or losing your privileges to operate that machine again. Of course here, if you injured yourself, you'd get priority in the healthcare system, because they always put drunks towards the front of the line. If you get arrested for it, you'll get pushed even further up the line. If you're not native and especially if you tick the other two boxes too, then you go right to the front of the line.

Reckless driving is already illegal and sober people do it all the time. DUIs are an extortion scheme that uses the emotionality of people like you to exist.

Forge, on 27 July 2020 - 08:33 PM, said:

other methods are intrusive, but not to the point of violating privacy and civil rights - an example would be to put breathalyzer ignitions in all vehicles.

Ooops looks like you blew a 0.001, you've been selected for a prison sentence.

[Forge]

/Defiatron\, on 27 July 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:

Ooops looks like you blew a 0.001, you've been selected for a prison sentence.

don't be ridiculous
the limit is 0.08
and the vehicle simply wouldn't start. that's all

[High Treason]

/Defiatron\, on 27 July 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:

Why would I care if they were drunk? I would care that they killed someone. And as you mentioned, there are plenty of legal circumstances people engage in all the time that end up causing accidents all the time. An emotional argument is the WORST argument. Reckless driving and killing people are already illegal. Those are the crimes, and sober people do it all the time.

You'd care that they were drunk because they shouldn't have been driving in the first place and the situation could have been avoided.
I never made an emotional argument, I was merely providing an example of something that happens to people way more often than it should.

Quote

Being high on meth is irrelevant. Threatening someone with a firearm is already a crime.

So you don't think they should do that? Then why should an intoxicated person be allowed behind the wheel of a car?

Quote

Reckless driving is already illegal and sober people do it all the time. DUIs are an extortion scheme that uses the emotionality of people like you to exist.

Sometimes preemptive action is the best way. You don't let the burglar in before you lock your door, you don't stop the known terrorist after he blows up your airport (in theory, of course in practice it doesn't always work out this way), so why should we let the drunk driver run someone over before we stop him?

Quote

Ooops looks like you blew a 0.001, you've been selected for a prison sentence.

The limit is much higher, seems fair. Maybe next time you'll be more responsible.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Hendricks266, on 27 July 2020 - 03:47 PM, said:

I like to say that with regard to free speech, on Duke4.net you have the freedom to shoot yourself in the foot. Congratulations for demonstrating to the world that you are a creep.

You do not however have the right to shoot others, in the feet or otherwise. I forbid you to post any photographs of me on any platform, under penalty of immediate ban.

Note to others, I recall mention of this user engaging in stalking and death threats in another thread. If you still find these objectionable, or regarding future posts, please use the report feature.

Public image, my nigga. I didn't go on your facebook.

Stalking = public info freely divulged by the members in question that I didn't have to go anywhere special to get.

Finally - better a creep than a cuck.

Yeehaw.

[Aristotle Gumball]

As for death threats, I must let you know I have contracted this man to carry out the hit(s). Never mess with a stereotypical (in every way) Marxist-Communist.

If you find this objectionable, please use the report feature.

[Jimmy]

Forge, on 27 July 2020 - 08:41 PM, said:

don't be ridiculous
the limit is 0.08
and the vehicle simply wouldn't start. that's all

>asking the government to be reasonable

M A X I M U M K E K

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

You'd care that they were drunk because they shouldn't have been driving in the first place and the situation could have been avoided.
I never made an emotional argument, I was merely providing an example of something that happens to people way more often than it should.

No, I wouldn't care. "If somebody you loved died" is an extremely emotional argument because it forgoes logic for feelings. My aunt had a random seizure with no history of seizures before while driving and hit a tree and died. Driving is an inherently dangerous activity by it's very nature. The world is an imperfect place, screws fall out all the time. Sober people die driving, sober people kill other people while driving. Drunk people live driving, drunk people kill nobody driving. Again, reckless driving is already illegal, why create a separate charge for the same thing? Oh yeah, so the state can extort money out of people.

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

So you don't think they should do that? Then why should an intoxicated person be allowed behind the wheel of a car?

You come from a commie cuck country that doesn't have a gun culture so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt: You only point guns at people you intend to kill, and people who have guns pointed at them are only left to assume they will be killed. That's why that soyboy in Houston got fucking clapped. He fucked around and he found out. Drunk drivers for all their lack of judgement don't intend to kill people. If a drunk driver gets home safely and no one is hurt, what crime has been committed? Oh yeah, the state lost some money.

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

Sometimes preemptive action is the best way. You don't let the burglar in before you lock your door

You don't know me, motherfucker. I'm not locked in with the burglar, he's locked in with me.

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

so why should we let the drunk driver run someone over before we stop him?

LMAO. Dude your country lets muslims run people over every week.

High Treason, on 27 July 2020 - 10:38 PM, said:

The limit is much higher, seems fair. Maybe next time you'll be more responsible.

Who are you, or the state, to arbitrate what is responsible? What is the metric that determines this?

[Danukem]

/Defiatron\, on 27 July 2020 - 11:46 PM, said:

You come from a commie cuck country that doesn't have a gun culture so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt
...
LMAO. Dude your country lets muslims run people over every week.

Earlier: gameaux333 gets shirty about the USA

Jimmy: hold my beer

[High Treason]

Guy didn't even really try to counter my points and went on some rant about countries or something. Not sure if troll, drunk or just plain dipshit. I've dealt with pissheads before, my city is full of them, they're always right and they're always just as entitled as the larping commies and about ten times as stupid, no point trying to argue with them because they just bring you down to their level. Whatever, live with your delusions, I thought your country was de-funding the cops anyway, so what is there to worry about?

And people still wonder why their cars end up with an indent of my boot in the side of them.

[Jimmy]

Danukem, on 28 July 2020 - 12:52 AM, said:

Earlier: gameaux333 gets shirty about the USA

Jimmy: hold my beer

I thought this was a bant thread.

High Treason, on 28 July 2020 - 01:21 AM, said:

Guy didn't even really try to counter my points

Lie detected.

High Treason, on 28 July 2020 - 01:21 AM, said:

I've dealt with pissheads before, my city is full of them, they're always right and they're always just as entitled as the larping commies and about ten times as stupid, no point trying to argue with them because they just bring you down to their level. Whatever, live with your delusions

Peak projection.

High Treason, on 28 July 2020 - 01:21 AM, said:

And people still wonder why their cars end up with an indent of my boot in the side of them.

inb4 tire treads in the side of you

Bicyclists are the absolute dumbest fucking people on the road. Public transit bus drivers are second.

[High Treason]

/Defiatron\, on 28 July 2020 - 01:25 AM, said:

Lie detected.

High Treason, on 28 July 2020 - 01:21 AM, said:

I've dealt with pissheads before, (...) they're always right and they're always just as entitled as the larping commies and about ten times as stupid.

Quote

Peak projection.

Dude you don't fucking know me wahahhauhahfankenike (pukes on floor).

Quote

inb4 tire treads in the side of you

Bicyclists are the absolute dumbest fucking people on the road. Public transit bus drivers are second.

Yeah, nah, car drivers are total pussies, they smirk until you get off the bike, then they lock themselves in and try to hide under the steering wheel. They'll miss anyway because they're driving drunk, apparently. Kinda hard to catch a bike in a city, there's traffic and I can sail by it because filtering is legal here, there's literally nothing to stop me doing 40 along the edge of the opposing lane if the road is wide enough.

[Aristotle Gumball]

High Treason, on 28 July 2020 - 01:21 AM, said:

Not sure if troll, drunk or just plain dipshit.

Just spineless.

[Forge]

/Defiatron\, on 27 July 2020 - 11:46 PM, said:

>asking the government to be reasonable

>wants the government out of the driver harassment business
>refuses to make compromises to put the responsibility back on the driver


In actual topic related news; despite gemgoo's soap-boxing about how superior the eu is, Europe is experiencing a huge resurgence in covid19 cases. Guess the smug cloud wasn't enough, prepare your anus for more draconian measures.

[Radar]

While I agree with Jimmy on principle, I think some things are just a matter of culture. There's a good argument to be made that driver's licenses are a restriction on personal freedoms. But they're accepted as a way of life in every civilized country and they probably help make the roads safer. Probably.

[Forge]

R A D A Я, on 28 July 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

While I agree with Jimmy on principle,

i don't completely disagree with him
what i do disagree with is complaining about a problem, then automatically rejecting every possible solution short of burning the entire thing to the ground.
Might as well join the drum-circle at the portland courthouse

[Danukem]

R A D A Я, on 28 July 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

While I agree with Jimmy on principle, I think some things are just a matter of culture. There's a good argument to be made that driver's licenses are a restriction on personal freedoms. But they're accepted as a way of life in every civilized country and they probably help make the roads safer. Probably.

You'll probably be saying this about masks in 10 years.

[hismasterplan]

R A D A Я, on 28 July 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

But they're accepted as a way of life in every civilized country and they probably help make the roads safer. Probably.

Similar to masks. *runs away from thread giggling*

[gemeaux333]

Universal healthcare is not perfect, but have at least the merit to allow everyone to get cured when he is sick and not asking his credit card prior, for the good reason that everybody is human and dignity and security always comes first, its more like how every single insurance should work because, after all, true life is about what you give, not what you get !
"We don't pay for the others" ? Thats an individualist vision of the society ! Once UK had a policy where firemen were limiting their interventions to houses where peoples where posing a special plate against their walls, but that was utterly absurd and deeply stupid, because when an house is burning all the neighbouring houses burns too no matter how many plates there are, and its the same for healthcare, not curing sick peoples when they come up is like encouraging sickness to expend and do always more damages !
And besides, there is a matter of "Healthcare is socialised in nature in the army" too...

Mickael Moore "SICKO" say it all better that anybody, especially if you listen the interviews of peoples who participate
PS: I don't always agree with Mickael Moore, he have a problem with objectivity, but if he say the sky is blue I won't say its red, and if he say the grass is green I won't say its blue

[Radar]

Danukem, on 28 July 2020 - 06:28 AM, said:

You'll probably be saying this about masks in 10 years.

hismasterplan, on 28 July 2020 - 06:33 AM, said:

Similar to masks. *runs away from thread giggling*

lmao except masks don't actually do anything.

[Radar]

gemeaux333, on 28 July 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

Universal healthcare is not perfect, but have at least the merit to allow everyone to get cured when he is sick and not asking his credit card prior, for the good reason that everybody is human and dignity and security always comes first

Liberty comes before security. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

gemeaux333, on 28 July 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

Universal healthcare is not perfect, but have at least the merit to allow everyone to get cured when he is sick and not asking his credit card prior, for the good reason that everybody is human and dignity and security always comes first, its more like how every single insurance should work because, after all, true life is about what you give, not what you get !

That's not how insurance works. In what other industry do you insure against routine consumption as opposed to disaster? That is literally why prices are astronomical. Catastrophic insurance is the only health insurance that should exist.

gemeaux333, on 28 July 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

"We don't pay for the others" ? Thats an individualist vision of the society !

gemeaux333, on 28 July 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

Once UK had a policy where firemen were limiting their interventions to houses where peoples where posing a special plate against their walls, but that was utterly absurd and deeply stupid, because when an house is burning all the neighbouring houses burns too no matter how many plates there are, and its the same for healthcare, not curing sick peoples when they come up is like encouraging sickness to expend and do always more damages !
And besides, there is a matter of "Healthcare is socialised in nature in the army" too...

Fire departments, police, and military have nothing to do with socialism. These institutions have existed since America's founding and well before Marx was even around. They're meant to protect property and life in case of externalities. The police stop you from harming others. The fire department stops burning homes from destroying the entire neighborhood. But there are no externalities to bad health. That is your own responsibility.

gemeaux333, on 28 July 2020 - 06:49 AM, said:

Mickael Moore "SICKO" say it all better that anybody, especially if you listen the interviews of peoples who participate
PS: I don't always agree with Mickael Moore, he have a problem with objectivity, but if he say the sky is blue I won't say its red, and if he say the grass is green I won't say its blue

The irony of a 350 pound American lecturing about healthcare.

[Fox]

[Aristotle Gumball]

[Danukem]

R A D A Я, on 28 July 2020 - 06:54 AM, said:

lmao except masks don't actually do anything.

They do, but they certainly aren't foolproof, and they differ in quality.

Also, just saw this today: https://www.msn.com/...y?ocid=msedgntp

Essentially it says that there is evidence that even if you get it with a mask on, chances are the mask reduces the viral load because it blocks the larger droplets. So, if you do get infected you will probably have a milder case because your body has more time to come up with an effective response before the virus numbers get overwhelming. This makes sense and it also explains why when we hear about younger people dying of it, they are more likely to be healthcare workers or others explosed to large quantities of the virus. So hey, maybe masks are like a proxy for the vaccine we have been waiting for -- we still get herd immunity over time, but we don't get as sick.

Also, you do realize that we have accepted all kinds of regulations and inconveniences that don't offer much protection, right? People put up token resistance at first, then they give in and accept it. That's why I half-joked that in 10 years you will be saying that the mask requirement is fine.

[MusicallyInspired]

My wife and sister work in healthcare. My wife as a homecare worker and my sister as a nurse. They say that masks don't protect you from anything, they protect everyone else from you.

[Fox]

I'm not an expert, but it looks obvious to me that a barrier in front of you is going to protect you.

[Radar]

How do you think oxygen travels through a cloth mask? It's a permeable material.

[ck3D]

MusicallyInspired, on 28 July 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

My wife and sister work in healthcare. My wife as a homecare worker and my sister as a nurse. They say that masks don't protect you from anything, they protect everyone else from you.

Which is equally important, isn't it?

[gemeaux333]

MusicallyInspired, on 28 July 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

My wife and sister work in healthcare. My wife as a homecare worker and my sister as a nurse. They say that masks don't protect you from anything, they protect everyone else from you.

It protect both you and the other peoples, it work in both ways, at least when its a proper surgical equivalent mask and not a traversty of some kinds (especially some chinese junk)

R A D A Я, on 28 July 2020 - 07:53 AM, said:

Liberty comes before security. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Dead wrong, security is the very first freedom/need (after physiological needs of course), as Maslow"s hierarchy of needs attest it :



And when it comes to "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.", its definitly when a little of both safety and freedom are involved in the equation and not otherwise !

R A D A Я, on 28 July 2020 - 07:53 AM, said:

Fire departments, police, and military have nothing to do with socialism. These institutions have existed since America's founding and well before Marx was even around. They're meant to protect property and life in case of externalities. The police stop you from harming others. The fire department stops burning homes from destroying the entire neighborhood. But there are no externalities to bad health. That is your own responsibility.

When you want a public service to be efficient in anyway, then you "socialize" it by degrees, its all paid by the taxes money, otherwise no public service of any kind, and there is always someone who come up to local authorities to ask them to improve their everyday life with services in exchange of taxes, and if/when there is no taxes involved the citizen behave like a customer to the greatest dismay of all !

R A D A Я, on 28 July 2020 - 01:12 PM, said:

How do you think oxygen travels through a cloth mask? It's a permeable material.

Air pass thru it, but not anything bigger/heavier such as droplets, viruses or diverse pollution particles !

[gemeaux333]

https://www.facebook...52413788347909/

[Radar]

Sounds like communist propaganda but ok.