[Sanek]

Okay guys (James and Jimmy), I didn't want to look salty, I was just kidding.

I understand that fork will never be as good as EDuke32, considering that all present issues will be fixed and keeping in mind that people who work on it have many-many years of expierence (compared to Zahl, who... just started getting into it?), though the fork will really get more people into playing Build games. And as far as validation is concerned - I had my share over the years; right now I'll be just happy if map itself turns into something that reach my own expectation of what my own map should look like.

Yes Radar, we got it.

[Tea Monster]

Also, Doom has had multiple new games over the years which has had the general public playing a new generation of Doom on a regular basis. Thus Doom has been on shop shelves and in advertising in various forms since it came out. The idea and perception of Doom was kept fresh in the public mind over the decades. People would play Doom 3 and the community as a whole would be invigorated and kept fresh, even if modding for other versions never really took off in the same way.

Duke came out in 1996 and since then, all we heard was "WID" for over a decade. Bleh. After 15 years there was just "Hey remember Duke Nukem?" To which there was either an enthusiastic response or "Uh, no."

Another factor apart from the editors is the source code. Doom's code is clean and easily understandable and modable. It was built to be tinkered with. Duke - not so much.

[Mblackwell]

The next person to post about something other than the actual topic gets a 24h ban, because this is stupid. Take your personal grievances to PM.

[Fox]

I moved the unrelated posts. 💩

[Jimmy]

 Doom64hunter, on 07 February 2020 - 08:27 AM, said:

DECORATE is less powerful, but ZScript is at least as powerful, and way, way more usable, simply because it uses high-level language design, rather than this weird assembly-like syntax that CON has.

I can write CON, DECORATE, and ZScript code. CON is by far the easiest. You just have to want to learn how to use it. There's a steep learning curve, but once you got the basics down it's super easy to use. On a surface level DECORATE and ZScript might be easier to understand without learning, but all you have to do is learn how to use CON and then it's a breeze. Human minds are geared toward learning languages. You just have to want it.

 ReaperAA, on 07 February 2020 - 10:05 AM, said:

Doom's modding scene today is bigger than Duke's modding scene for a reason.

Because it has always been bigger and it came first. Duke's modding scene has always been kind of small because it was competing with the last gen (Doom) and the next gen (Quake, Half Life.)

[Player Lin]

 Jimmy, on 08 February 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

I can write CON, DECORATE, and ZScript code. CON is by far the easiest. You just have to want to learn how to use it. There's a steep learning curve, but once you got the basics down it's super easy to use. On a surface level DECORATE and ZScript might be easier to understand without learning, but all you have to do is learn how to use CON and then it's a breeze. Human minds are geared toward learning languages. You just have to want it.

That's good if you can write them all.
I think it's just subjective for which one is easiest...just like those modern program languages.


Same thing apply on the Build editor, too bad I just sucks at them all...can do some basic shit but nothing more than that...
Complain "It's too hard to learn" is easy but since no one do a better one so...well...nothing I can say at all.

[OpenMaw]

 Jimmy, on 08 February 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

Because it has always been bigger and it came first. Duke's modding scene has always been kind of small because it was competing with the last gen (Doom) and the next gen (Quake, Half Life.)

I don't wholey agree. Duke had a pretty substantial modding community from the 90s up to the early-mid 2000s. The problem for Duke was, as others said, there was never a follow up to Duke3D. Not a big drop that would have reinvigorated the community. The Doom community had a slump for awhile too, but Doom 3 and the Doom Movie and ROE, and then the rumblings for years that we would see another film and that Doom IV was in the works at id kept the communities fire up.

[Jimmy]

I mean I was there. Doom has always had a larger community. Yes, we once gave them a run for their money, but the amount of Doom content out there speaks for itself. Year by year, consistently larger output.

[ReaperAA]

From my initial testings, I have seen that while Raze have overall less performance in terms of frames per second, it feels much smoother due to better Vsync implementation. Can this Vsync implementation be ported to Eduke32?

[Jblade]

I think Dukeworld's death took a large toll on the community; PlanetDuke just didn't even remotely compare.

[Doom64hunter]

Raze's bug report forum has been very active lately and I suggest checking it out from time to time to see if any of the issues can be reproduced in eduke32, NBlood, Rednukem, PCExhumed or VoidSW respectively.

I think the boost in interest for Build games could be very positive for the community.

[OpenMaw]

 Jblade, on 10 February 2020 - 02:00 AM, said:

I think Dukeworld's death took a large toll on the community; PlanetDuke just didn't even remotely compare.

Losing Dukeworld basically triggered a big fracturing to take place. People split up between Totalconversions, 3D Realms, and Planet Duke.

[Kyanos]

What ever happened to kill jonof's forum?
Sorry for off topic but I've always been curious and it's never really come up.

[Player Lin]

 Photonic, on 10 February 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

What ever happened to kill jonof's forum?
Sorry for off topic but I've always been curious and it's never really come up.

https://webcache.goo...ent=firefox-b-d
(JonoF changed his site so I just take the google web cache page)

Quote

The forum is closed

It is with disappointment that I've closed the forum on this site. Spam bots made it impossible to keep it under control, and although there is some valuable content within its posts, it's just not worth my or the other moderators' time to maintain it.

I suggest you head over to the Duke4.net forums if you want to remain involved in the community.

Regards, JonoF

Late time I saw that forum still running was just totally Spamfest, spam posts everywhere... so I guess he just gave up and taken it down.

[Blzut3]

 ReaperAA, on 10 February 2020 - 01:58 AM, said:

From my initial testings, I have seen that while Raze have overall less performance in terms of frames per second, it feels much smoother due to better Vsync implementation. Can this Vsync implementation be ported to Eduke32?

I am not directly involved with Raze's code, nor do I know much of anything about hardware rendering so my knowledge is very limited here. From what I understand there's nothing wrong with EDuke32's vsync implementation per se. Instead it has to do with the use of legacy/deprecated OpenGL features which are emulated with inconsistent performance on modern drivers. That and, on nvidia drivers at least, a driver issue with creating texture IDs sometimes causes a wait for vblank.

[TerminX]

 ReaperAA, on 10 February 2020 - 01:58 AM, said:

From my initial testings, I have seen that while Raze have overall less performance in terms of frames per second, it feels much smoother due to better Vsync implementation. Can this Vsync implementation be ported to Eduke32?

You should try a newer build of EDuke32 as the entirety of the VSync implementation was replaced less than a week ago.

[Striker]

 Sanek, on 06 February 2020 - 03:34 AM, said:

I don't understand.
Is this mostly GZDoom-powered port with some of the EDuke32's code thrown in that allows you to insert .ART, .MAP and .CON formats into Doom but you have to use Doom level edtor in order to make user maps? And there's multiplayer too?

Nope, it's a EDuke32-powered port with GZDoom menus/console, input code, sound, and rendering, basically. Same map and asset formats. TL;DR it's EDuke32 in a new shell. No multiplayer, just whatever EDuke32 had at the revision they forked it from.

[ReaperAA]

 TerminX, on 10 February 2020 - 08:50 PM, said:

You should try a newer build of EDuke32 as the entirety of the VSync implementation was replaced less than a week ago.

Just gave it a try now. Vsync does feel a bit better than in previous Eduke32 builds, but Raze with Vsync still feels smoother.

Also do you recommend to use in-game Vsync or the one from GPU control panel?

[TerminX]

Whichever works better for you. Try turning the one in the control panel off and setting the in-game option to "KMT". You might also try the auto option for the framerate limiter... that's new, too.

In what way does Raze feel smoother?

[Player Lin]

 TerminX, on 11 February 2020 - 02:15 AM, said:

In what way does Raze feel smoother?

I tried both Raze 0.4.2 alpha and EDuke32 r8641, Vsync = ON(everything else just went a lot of screen tears, but in Raze with VSync = ON I still got some screen tear, no screen tears on EDuke32, and I have MSI Afterburner 4.6.2.15658 with RivaTunerStatisticsServer 7.2.3.20599 installed, used its FPS limiter to 60 FPS, not sure related or not)

I found this is very hard to explain...looks like in Raze, each frame update is smoother than EDuke32...It's still smooth enough in EDuke32 but feel just very, very little jitter but I can't explain why/what's that jitter from...

[ReaperAA]

Pretty much what Player Lin said. There appears to be slight jitters in Eduke32 where Raze does not have any.

[Putrid Pete]

After playing Raze and EDuke32 back to back and really paying attention to the difference in 'smoothness', the biggest thing I could see is that EDuke32 has a sort of jitter going on, particularly when looking around. I hardly notice it myself, but I have a monitor with a high refresh rate. Others who don't could experience it more.

The feeling is a bit hard to describe like others have mentioned, but I guess the best comparison I can make, is that looking around has a 'shaky' feel to it, as if the camera 'bumps' along when moving.

[VGA]

If there is jitter while moving then it is probably better described as frame pacing problems. For me, BloodGDX is the best Blood port but has really bad frame pacing and VSync is unusable

eDuke32 used to always feel bad for me but some months ago things improved with a series of commits related to increasing aiming accuracy/resolution. Before Ion Fury's final release I think, when things were getting optimised.

[Radar]

Whichever one you prefer, you are basically choosing between 2 flavors of EDuke32.

[ReaperAA]

 VGA, on 11 February 2020 - 10:13 AM, said:

If there is jitter while moving then it is probably better described as frame pacing problems. For me, BloodGDX is the best Blood port but has really bad frame pacing and VSync is unusable

Maybe you're right about describing it as frame pacing problem. Also I have the same experience with GDX. In GDX, the frame pacing problem was even more pronounced (at least when I tried it a few months ago).

 Radar 100 Watts, on 11 February 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

Whichever one you prefer, you are basically choosing between 2 flavors of EDuke32.

Okay Radar, we already know that

[Player Lin]

 Radar 100 Watts, on 11 February 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

Whichever one you prefer, you are basically choosing between 2 flavors of EDuke32.

Sure, but I want both and nobody can stop me.

[Master O]

 Player Lin, on 12 February 2020 - 03:00 AM, said:

Sure, but I want both and nobody can stop me.

*stops Player Lin.*

[Kyanos]

Quote

Since the RedNukem frontend code is now capable of running Duke I am closing this - as all other bugs inherited from EDuke32. If they get it fixed, fine, but I've come to the point that I prefer to use the more compatible code to play Duke by now, it surely causes less surprises.

This is interesting, does rednukem keep much of EDuke32s modding features...? Off to check it out.

added: ouch.

cons\defs.con:9: error: expected a keyword but found `gamevar'.

2nd edit: looks like it's an optional setting, not default or only.

[Jimmy]

Rednukem perfectly ports the 1.5 DOS exe.

[MusicallyInspired]

 Master O, on 12 February 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

*stops Player Lin.*

Master O; aka "nobody."