[icecoldduke]

Trooper Dan, on 06 March 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:

How much more motivation to make an EDuke32 renderer do you need?

You know me too well .

[Phredreeke]

MARTYR, on 06 March 2020 - 07:30 PM, said:

>implying using BUILD/Ken's Labyrinth was a stupid idea
>required very little dev-time after 3D Realms scooped it up
>all costs furthering development recouped by licensing the engine to others
>three of the greatest FPS games ever made were on the BUILD engine + a handful of decent ones

>Instill overconfidence causing 3DR to bet it all on Duke Nukem Forever

[Jimmy]

Read Masters of Doom, Apogee was always over-confident. It's how they were so successful.

[Danukem]

Godwin's Law, DNF corollary: As an online discussion at duke4.net grows longer, the probability of the discussion shifting to Duke Nukem Forever approaches 1

[MusicallyInspired]

Trooper Dan, on 06 March 2020 - 03:58 PM, said:

How much more motivation to make an EDuke32 renderer do you need?

+1

[ReaperAA]

MARTYR, on 06 March 2020 - 07:30 PM, said:

>three of the greatest FPS games ever made were on the BUILD engine + a handful of decent ones

Among the greatest, but not at the top.

Doom > Any build engine game.

[Jimmy]

>implying the Holy Trinity isn't in the top 5
>implying Doom is better than Blood

Okay pleb

[Phredreeke]

By Doom, are we talking just the first game or both Doom 1&2 collectively? Although I'd say Blood still beats both.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, Doom is not the best. In fact I find it boring after ep1. Duke3D is fun all the way through. Even Ep2, though it is the low point. Actually I still have yet to play through SW and Blood.

[Phredreeke]

Yeah I love Ep1 of Doom. I think I honestly prefer Doom 64 to Doom 2 (although I've only played it on PC, if I had to play with a N64 controller it might be a different story)

SW is the weakest of the three main Build games for me.

[Radar]

The Build Trinity is better than Doom.

[NightFright]

Without Doom, there wouldn't have been a Build Trinity.

[DisgustedGrunt]

imo Doom episodes 1-3 are great, 4 is alright (Fuck Perfect Hatred), Doom 2 is ok until the Chasm, everytime i reach it i just loose the will to keep playing. Never cared about Final Doom.
Duke 3D is fun all the way thought, Blood is great (except Aqueducts), Shadow warrior is not as good as the other two, but still pretty good.

[Radar]

Neither would there be COD or Halo without Doom.

[ReaperAA]

MARTYR, on 07 March 2020 - 06:53 AM, said:

>implying the Holy Trinity isn't in the top 5
>implying Doom is better than Blood

Okay pleb

Just stating my opinion mate.

And in my eyes, SW is nowhere near even top 10 (it is barely in the top 20 imho). And as great as Blood is, I still believe Doom is superior. Especially in the core gameplay department (the level design is better in Blood tho).

NightFright, on 07 March 2020 - 10:50 AM, said:

Without Doom, there wouldn't have been a Build Trinity.

The truth has been spoken.

[axl]

ReaperAA, on 07 March 2020 - 01:09 PM, said:

And as great as Blood is, I still believe Doom is superior. Especially in the core gameplay department (the level design is better in Blood tho).

I must agree. Doom wins on the "gameplay" aspect. However, level-design is better in both Duke Nukem 3D and Blood.

The holy trinity in my opinion is Doom, Duke Nukem 3D and Blood.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yes, without Doom there would be no Build Trinity. But as the critic quote said back when it first came out: "Doom is dead. Long live Duke Nukem 3D!"

Doom has lasted longer because it's so easy to port and the engine isn't as complicated as Build apparently is. And it's got a huge following. But I feel like it's more of the "lowest common denominator" game than Duke which is a bit more complicated and layered. Still vastly prefer it to Doom.

[Jimmy]

Doom is great and a favourite of mine, but Doom 1+2 has plenty of trash filler levels.

[ReaperAA]

MARTYR, on 07 March 2020 - 04:42 PM, said:

Doom is great and a favourite of mine, but Doom 1+2 has plenty of trash filler levels.

Can't argue that. If there is anything in Doom that has "aged", it is the level design of the iwads. Custom pwads are the way to go for better level design.

[Fox]

Many of Doom levels are really bad, especially episodes 2 and 3. The design is awful, and the gameplay progression is a pain in the ass.

However, this is due to the developers using a map editor that only had a 2D view.

[NightFright]

Limbo is still my most hated Doom level of all the classic episodes. After all these years I still haven't figured out how to beat this shit without looking up through which one of these idiotic teleporters you need to go to end up in the right place to unlock the exit. Everything looks so similar and you need to memorize the teleporters. Guess it's easier if you use map markers, but it shouldn't be needed. A complete fail regarding level design, stops you almost dead. They should have let Romero make more levels, but I guess he was too busy playing deathmatch.

[Darkus]

Finally tested Raze. It's so weird seeing ZDoom menus in Build games, makes me feel it's a TC of some kind. Knowing that it's an alpha, and most of the issues below are reported in their forums, there are the pros/cons that I noticed the most:

- Raze don't have frame stuttering that EDuke has but...
- ... I can't enable VSync in Duke3D while it works in SW. Maybe related that I can't change resolutions in fullscreen(!?)
- In Duke3D, SFX quality is pretty bad, but the echo effects are improved, even in SW.
- There are texture filtering, but I miss the classic render.
- SW is still crashing randomly, after around +15 mins of gameplay. Like ProAsm port. Also like Jonof port. Also also like vanilla. I hope this get fixed for VoidSW.
- As for mod support... Maybe too early to think about it. But I'll stick with EDuke.

[Mark]

Hmm... I don't remember SWP crashing for me. I'll have to fire it up again and see. Are you running it in a clean folder and not part of anything else? Which version? IIRC there is 4.32 and 4.33

[Darkus]

I use 4.3.3, but it's completely random. Crash can happen after around 10 mins but sometimes nothing happens for hours. It's the same thing for all of the SW ports I played.

For Raze, it's the usual ZDoom crash window that pop-up, but it's blank.

For the DOS version, I get the granular limit something.

EDIT: Oh I still have the dated swp.crash.log:

Spoiler

Caught exception 0xC0000005 at 0x004A74DF: Access violation.
0x004A74DF : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004A8E63 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x0048463E : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x00424424 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004248B8 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004277EA : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x00429AD1 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x0056311D : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x0056FCED : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004013E2 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x7617336A : C:\Windows\syswow64\kernel32.dll : BaseThreadInitThunk
0x773B9902 : C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll : RtlInitializeExceptionChain
0x773B98D5 : C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll : RtlInitializeExceptionChain
Sat Jul 01 22:11:50 2017
---------------
Caught exception 0xC0000094 at 0x004ABDC5: {EXCEPTION}

Division entière par zéro.


0x004ABDC5 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004AB0DA : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x0048A5BD : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x00475F10 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004279DF : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x00427FDB : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004248D1 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004277EA : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x00429AD1 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x0056311D : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x0056FCED : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x004013E2 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x7574336A : C:\syswow64\kernel32.dll : BaseThreadInitThunk
0x77739902 : C:\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll : RtlInitializeExceptionChain
0x777398D5 : C:\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll : RtlInitializeExceptionChain
Fri Jul 07 13:48:20 2017
---------------
Caught exception 0xC0000005 at 0x0056C5CA: Access violation.
0x0056C5CA : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x0052D358 : C:\swp_433_beta3\SWP.exe : [unknown file]
0x773529CD : C:\Windows\SysWOW64\ntdll.dll : RtlQueryPerformanceCounter
Fri Jan 25 19:08:48 2019
---------------

EDIT2:

Quote

Division entière par zéro.

It says 'Integer division by zero'

[Morpheus Kitami]

Late to the whole Doom vs. Duke thing, but outside of the city maps, Duke is really bland. I'd give specific examples, but after the electric chair level I just zoned out of it. I mean, valley, underwater with the Octobrains, the space station...eh... I can't really say there was much outright bad in Doom, except E3M9...and maybe E2M3. Doom 2 can just shove off until the Suburbs, though.

[icecoldduke]

Zaxx, on 03 February 2020 - 04:23 AM, said:

I think he mentioned that he wants to make a new renderer but that will happen later. Guess he wants to salvage Polymer or at least some of its features.

Basically this is what he has:, He stripped the OpenGL bits out of Polymost and moved to another system, he hasn’t done much else beyond that yet graphically speaking.

I don’t think there is a modding scene for SW, which sucks but the bar of entry is learning C and going through that codebase isn’t straight forward.

As far as the doom vs duke3d, I liked the environments in duke32 because they were more dynamic then Doom. Once I played Duke3D I had a tough time going back to Doom 1&2.

[oasiz]

Let's not turn this in to a Duke vs. Doom thread pretty please, thank you.

[axl]

On topic... while Duke Nukem 3D, Blood and Redneck Rampage run very fluidly on Raze, Shadow Warrior does not. Mouselook feels very jerky. But I assume this has to do with the fact that VoidSW is not yet ready ?

[icecoldduke]

axl, on 11 March 2020 - 09:35 AM, said:

On topic... while Duke Nukem 3D, Blood and Redneck Rampage run very fluidly on Raze, Shadow Warrior does not. Mouselook feels very jerky. But I assume this has to do with the fact that VoidSW is not yet ready ?

EDuke32 and Raze run exactly the same for me, with Raze being a tad bit slower on the retail levels. However clcoast and other user maps do run significantly slower with Raze compared to Eduke32. My hardware is a Nvidia 2080 on a i9 with a 144hz ultra wide.

As far as Shadow Warrrior I wouldn’t blame Raze or Eduke32 for that, the original codebase was pretty janky,

[Phredreeke]