[Mark]

I'm with-holding judgement on the hair until it actually has a texture on it. Seeing strands of hair instead of bare planes would make a world of difference.

[Lunick]

That "Beat cop" looks incredibly gay

[Jimmy]

I've come here to suck pig cock and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum.

[The Battlelord]

This Young Duke looks too much modern (IMO), the hair cut is quite out of place for that era and, personally, i think that the old Pig Cops from DN3D have a better and elegant crest than those hairs LOL.

[NightFright]

Young Duke looks like Gordon Ramsay. F'ing wrong!

[necroslut]

The Duke design is the worst thing I've ever seen. Good thing this was cancelled.

[Radar]

I really don't have a problem with Duke being handsome any more than I have a problem with girls being attractive in entertainment. Or I could be a left-wing godless puritan and advocate for everyone to look ugly out of spite or jealousy or something. I think that design would work really well for a 21-year-old Duke maybe. But honestly aesthetic probably isn't even the first thing to consider when developing a new Duke game. Even when Duke3D was developed, it's pretty clear the only constraint they had was a character that filled the cyberpunk setting, and the rest of Duke's "personality" was just an outgrowth of whatever they were making. Which again begs the question I've asked many times, when effectively the only requirement on a Duke title is to actually make it a good game, why would a developer even consider such a tainted IP at that point?

[Malgon]

Sorry for the necrobump, but stumbled across this video which Gregor just posted on his channel. Looks like more of the footage from the first post:

[Doom64hunter]

Why would a game called "Duke Begins" even involve Octabrains, Pigcops and all those Cycloid aliens anyways?

I'd prefer an original enemy roster.

[gemeaux333]

Seing the gameplay phases, It could be a great VR game...

[DisgustedGrunt]

Doom64hunter, on 07 August 2021 - 11:44 PM, said:

Why would a game called "Duke Begins" even involve Octabrains, Pigcops and all those Cycloid aliens anyways?

I'd prefer an original enemy roster.

Because they're iconic to the series, therefore it's gonna make the game sell. The same reason Bethesda put the Brotherhood of Steel, the Enclave and Super Mutants in Fallout 3, even though they should be nowhere near close to where the game takes place. The same reason the Star Wars sequel trilogy got the Empire 2: electric boogalo and Darth Loser.

[MusicallyInspired]

Malgon, on 07 August 2021 - 10:42 PM, said:

Sorry for the necrobump, but stumbled across this video which Gregor just posted on his channel. Looks like more of the footage from the first post:

I recall seeing this exact footage years ago from some artist's portfolio. Or at least most of it. (I don't remember the 4p co-op stuff)

[gemeaux333]

Lazy Dog, on 08 August 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:

The same reason Bethesda put the Brotherhood of Steel, the Enclave and Super Mutants in Fallout 3, even though they should be nowhere near close to where the game takes place.

You forgot Harrold the ghoul, he made his way to DC only to get stuck in a narrow valley because the tree on his head have become bigger than him , and make this narrow valley the only green spot of the place, and I can't pull into words how bad I felt to have to euthanazia him because... you know...


Scott Miller responded to the topic JSJ made on his facebook about this trailer : "This game was my idea…to tell the origin story for Duke. So I put together a deal for Gearbox to make the game for Take2, with 3D Realms producing it. But honestly, I was not happy with the direction that Gearbox was taking it so at the time I was glad it was canceled. "

[Yatta]

I hate how they make Duke look younger. It's a very deliberate "heY fELloW KiDs" and lame attempt at "relating" to the younger generation. DNF (in its mediocre final form) did the same thing.

If anything Duke should be even older than his (already old Duke3D self), a la Kratos in the PS4 reboot of God of War where Kratos looks to be 60+.

I mean, come on... In the Duke Begins trailer Duke doesn't even have armpit hair. (strip club scene)

[Ronin]

Interesting but that it's never going to happen is a good thing as Gearbox have shown nothing that would lead you to think they could do a Duke game justice.

[Yatta]

Ronin, on 08 August 2021 - 03:50 PM, said:

Interesting but that it's never going to happen is a good thing as Gearbox have shown nothing that would lead you to think they could do a Duke game justice.

Agreed.

I wish we could have a Duke game that shits on woke culture. Imagine an opening boss battle with a fat lesbian with pink hair who attacks you by virtue signaling, and you can only win by having Duke OD on steroids so he doesn't have to hear any more of her woke shit. (Basically she can't be hurt from being shot at, and so it'll be a "trick" boss that you can only defeat by "killing yourself" in reaction to being repulsed by her intersectionality.

The rest of the game can parody people who hate America. DNF was literally built on an American flag. It'd be fitting.

[Ronin]

That's indeed what's needed, with Gearbox in control it sadly doesn't matter who has the balls to do it. No deviation from the line is allowed.

[Ronin]

What recent badass moments in popular culture could Duke even try to parody? He'd have to go back to the 80's or 90's so Duke begins type thing in the 80's could work but Gearbox.

[gemeaux333]

Gearbox is pretty busy on the Borderlands franchise and always depended on bigger editors for AAA games, so they can only outsource the development of any Duke Nukem game, and it seems they get better results as publishers, the proof : Tribes of Midgard, developped by Norsfell, was released only a week ago and it already gathered more than 500k players, as I myself bough and play it I can say its definitly worth it, very adictive, you will spend many hours either on single or multiplayer in the game (despite some flaw on the multiplayer side that the devs are eagger and busy to solve) depending on your tastes for Rogue-lites

[Yatta]

Ronin, on 08 August 2021 - 04:06 PM, said:

What recent badass moments in popular culture could Duke even try to parody? He'd have to go back to the 80's or 90's so Duke begins type thing in the 80's could work but Gearbox.

There is a treasure trove of woke culture bullshit to parody today. Duke was all about parodying stuff from films and pop culture, right? Well, America today is all about woke culture ESPECIALLY in Hollywood film/TV, so there's your target.

All the Chinese CCP dick sucking going on, all the Covid bullshit, all the focus on transpeople participating against women in Olympic (and other sports) events, all the "America is bad and defund the police" bullshit from crazies like AOC, all this shit needs to be parodied. We need to cancel the "cancel culture" and Duke would be the perfect "All-American" character to do it shamelessly.

Imagine all the negative press and death threats the producers of such a magnificent game would receive, but all that bad attention would still generate controversy, which in turn would generate $ which is what these pussy-ass woke corporate bastards want in the first place, but are too cowardly and stupid to pull off.

[Ninety-Six]

As much as I despise woke culture and its strangling of free ideas, that direction sounds a bit too ham-fisted. For Duke, at least. While the parody nature has always been very present, it was always possible to ignore it, especially if you had never had any experience with what was being aped. For instance, I myself am not even close to what you would call big on movies. I've seen some, obviously, but not many.

Yet, I was able to enjoy Duke 3D and his other outings just fine, even if I missed the references until many years later. Even in some of the later games that had a sillier tone, they knew to avoid front-loading it all. That was one of DNF's bigger mistakes, in my opinion. It started to make that stuff completely unavoidable. The references and outdated memes were everywhere and the game made sure you almost never missed one. It detracted from the experience by a lot because it forced you to acknowledge DNF as a game that was made several years before it was actually released.


If a Duke game wants to dump all over woke culture, I'm not against it in concept. But it should do so in more subtly. If the world doesn't end up a draconian hellhole in the next few years and puts this woke shit behind it, then any Duke game that made itself completely anti-woke would only ever be able to be seen as a product of its time. And while some have said that about DN3D, that's only because they're idiots that see captured women and cry about it. As evidenced by the recent trickle of new fans to this place thanks to World Tour (where the fifth episode did go back to the more subtle approach the rest of the game had, albeit about as subtle as episode 4 was vs. the original 3), DN3D is able to stand the test of time even though a lot of those new fans are probably way too young to catch all the references.

The references and jokes weren't the main appeal, is my point. That gives the game a bit of a timeless quality. Not 100% timeless, obviously, but it can still be enjoyed years later by new people even 25 years later because the jokes were always just sort of there, but built around a solid game about an alien invasion. A concept that will probably never be outdated unless we do run across actual real-life aliens.

Any new Duke game that wants to attack woke culture should do so in a way where it, too, can be enjoyed a quarter of a century later by people who knew nothing about woke culture.

[Poorchop]

Yatta, on 08 August 2021 - 03:57 PM, said:

I wish we could have a Duke game that shits on woke culture. Imagine an opening boss battle with a fat lesbian with pink hair who attacks you by virtue signaling, and you can only win by having Duke OD on steroids so he doesn't have to hear any more of her woke shit.

This would never happen in a million years. Games aren't made for the sort of people who were alive long enough to remember a time when people could refuse to validate a pervert's fetishes without being labeled a bigot.

I don't fully agree with the idea that there is no bad publicity either. Even if someone managed to make a Duke game with amazing gameplay, a game that took a dump on woke culture would be written off as some bullshit like toxic masculinity or hate speech. The press would call it a vestige of the past and the product of aging, out-of-touch neo-Nazis. The generation to whom games are mainly marketed are indoctrinated enough that they would just call it "cringe" or whatever catchall buzzword happens to be popular at the time. I don't even know if there's a place for a character like Duke at all in any modern game unless the developers cut his nuts off and model his pecs into silicone monstrosities.

[ck3D]

Ninety-Six, on 08 August 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

As much as I despise woke culture and its strangling of free ideas, that direction sounds a bit too ham-fisted. For Duke, at least. While the parody nature has always been very present, it was always possible to ignore it, especially if you had never had any experience with what was being aped. For instance, I myself am not even close to what you would call big on movies. I've seen some, obviously, but not many.

Yet, I was able to enjoy Duke 3D and his other outings just fine, even if I missed the references until many years later. Even in some of the later games that had a sillier tone, they knew to avoid front-loading it all. That was one of DNF's bigger mistakes, in my opinion. It started to make that stuff completely unavoidable. The references and outdated memes were everywhere and the game made sure you almost never missed one. It detracted from the experience by a lot because it forced you to acknowledge DNF as a game that was made several years before it was actually released.


If a Duke game wants to dump all over woke culture, I'm not against it in concept. But it should do so in more subtly. If the world doesn't end up a draconian hellhole in the next few years and puts this woke shit behind it, then any Duke game that made itself completely anti-woke would only ever be able to be seen as a product of its time. And while some have said that about DN3D, that's only because they're idiots that see captured women and cry about it. As evidenced by the recent trickle of new fans to this place thanks to World Tour (where the fifth episode did go back to the more subtle approach the rest of the game had, albeit about as subtle as episode 4 was vs. the original 3), DN3D is able to stand the test of time even though a lot of those new fans are probably way too young to catch all the references.

The references and jokes weren't the main appeal, is my point. That gives the game a bit of a timeless quality. Not 100% timeless, obviously, but it can still be enjoyed years later by new people even 25 years later because the jokes were always just sort of there, but built around a solid game about an alien invasion. A concept that will probably never be outdated unless we do run across actual real-life aliens.

Any new Duke game that wants to attack woke culture should do so in a way where it, too, can be enjoyed a quarter of a century later by people who knew nothing about woke culture.

I think if the Duke universe were to ever be 'updated', then it should be updated to the current reality in general and not just to this or that aspect of said current reality in particular (the main mistake DNF made by pandering to meme levels of humor). At least Duke 3D (to me) never really felt biased a certain way in its interpretation and rendition of 1996 reality, it just took all of it and exacerbated literally everything. If you ask me, Duke 3D was a world of general excess. And that's one we're actually closer to in 2021 than we were in 1996 back when those gloomy, dystopian landscapes were imagined. So I think opportunities to update the Duke universe never really ceased being a thing that whole time, and may be even more obvious in the world we currently live in. Exaggerating 2021 reality all the while keeping a similar, sharp but basic level of social criticism to the one in Duke 3D should be easy, but require an actually good writer.

[Yatta]

Poorchop, on 08 August 2021 - 05:43 PM, said:

This would never happen in a million years. Games aren't made for the sort of people who were alive long enough to remember a time when people could refuse to validate a pervert's fetishes without being labeled a bigot.

I don't fully agree with the idea that there is no bad publicity either. Even if someone managed to make a Duke game with amazing gameplay, a game that took a dump on woke culture would be written off as some bullshit like toxic masculinity or hate speech. The press would call it a vestige of the past and the product of aging, out-of-touch neo-Nazis. The generation to whom games are mainly marketed are indoctrinated enough that they would just call it "cringe" or whatever catchall buzzword happens to be popular at the time. I don't even know if there's a place for a character like Duke at all in any modern game unless the developers cut his nuts off and model his pecs into silicone monstrosities.

The fact that I find ample logic in both of your points simultaneously gives me sadness and courage. Sadness that the transient nature of time truly means all good things must come to an end, but courage that it is all the more reason to be brave and make a game like that against all odds. This old video comes to mind:

https://www.youtube....h?v=r47UqYMDN2k

Video games don't have to be made for teenagers alone, and yellow journalism has always existed.

[Yatta]

Ninety-Six, on 08 August 2021 - 05:12 PM, said:

As much as I despise woke culture and its strangling of free ideas, that direction sounds a bit too ham-fisted. For Duke, at least. While the parody nature has always been very present, it was always possible to ignore it, especially if you had never had any experience with what was being aped. For instance, I myself am not even close to what you would call big on movies. I've seen some, obviously, but not many.

Yet, I was able to enjoy Duke 3D and his other outings just fine, even if I missed the references until many years later. Even in some of the later games that had a sillier tone, they knew to avoid front-loading it all. That was one of DNF's bigger mistakes, in my opinion. It started to make that stuff completely unavoidable. The references and outdated memes were everywhere and the game made sure you almost never missed one. It detracted from the experience by a lot because it forced you to acknowledge DNF as a game that was made several years before it was actually released.


If a Duke game wants to dump all over woke culture, I'm not against it in concept. But it should do so in more subtly. If the world doesn't end up a draconian hellhole in the next few years and puts this woke shit behind it, then any Duke game that made itself completely anti-woke would only ever be able to be seen as a product of its time. And while some have said that about DN3D, that's only because they're idiots that see captured women and cry about it. As evidenced by the recent trickle of new fans to this place thanks to World Tour (where the fifth episode did go back to the more subtle approach the rest of the game had, albeit about as subtle as episode 4 was vs. the original 3), DN3D is able to stand the test of time even though a lot of those new fans are probably way too young to catch all the references.

The references and jokes weren't the main appeal, is my point. That gives the game a bit of a timeless quality. Not 100% timeless, obviously, but it can still be enjoyed years later by new people even 25 years later because the jokes were always just sort of there, but built around a solid game about an alien invasion. A concept that will probably never be outdated unless we do run across actual real-life aliens.

Any new Duke game that wants to attack woke culture should do so in a way where it, too, can be enjoyed a quarter of a century later by people who knew nothing about woke culture.

So I totally see your point, and there is something special about making art that is timeless. But what's wrong with making something that is, indeed, a product of its time as you said? Then again, I also don't see anything wrong with the game being more subtle. However, my point is that at least SOME content in such a game would have to be egregious enough to "trigger" the right folks and generate controversy. My whole point was to cause at least some segment of the population to get triggered, as "sinister" as that might be. Good art innately generates controversy sometimes, and people have also made social commentary through their art in all of history.

Triggering people in this context wouldn't be intended maliciously, of course. The point would be to bring attention to the game, and in turn, to bring attention to a problem in society that the game tries to capitalize on. Games have matured since Duke3D came out, after all.

[Ninety-Six]

Yatta, on 08 August 2021 - 06:21 PM, said:

at least SOME content in such a game would have to be egregious enough to "trigger" the right folks and generate controversy.

With things the way they are, literally everything will trigger those lunatics if given enough time. Sadly we all know that's not exaggerated in the slightest. Hell, simply releasing anything with the Duke Nukem name will cause a meltdown, and again we know that's not exaggerated. You don't have to try...at all to trigger those people. I mean Christ, doucheworld just banned someone for saying the word "woke."

...I'm not sure what that says about either of our standpoints, to be perfectly honest...


It's not about whether the triggering is malicious or not, at least not in my case. I don't care that much. Which leads me to the point you and ck brought up:

Yatta, on 08 August 2021 - 06:21 PM, said:

But what's wrong with making something that is, indeed, a product of its time as you said?

To be perfectly truthful, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. I agree that sometimes it's even necessary.

My concern, at least as far as Duke goes, is that if an entry is so heavily tied to its era of release, it will make it tougher for newer audiences to go back to. And if such a game releases (especially after a 10 year hiatus like Duke has been in), it will set an expectation that further games in the series be in that same style, at least until the next hiatus.


If it were a new IP I wouldn't put up any sort of fuss. But for Duke... maybe I just care too much about this franchise that is so near and dear to my heart, but since the franchise is already bordering on forgotten, I wouldn't want to see new releases contribute to an even worse form of obscurity in the future, where it wouldn't even get the trickle that we're seeing now since it would be too alien (pun not intended) to audiences years from now.

To put it another way, I just want to make sure future audiences have the chance to go back and discover the series for themselves and maybe find out they enjoy it and get as passionate as we do. I want future audiences to be able to return for entertainment's sake, and not in a stuffy academic sort of way like Shakespeare or Citizen Kane (Not that I'm saying I hate either, it's just that they're both so academically studied and forced that their entertainment value has been stripped away. In my eyes that's a fate worse than obscurity).

[MusicallyInspired]

The current state of society definitely needs to be parodied. In the most over-the-top ridiculous eye-gougingly ham-fisted way possible. It needs to be in your face and totally and laughably cheesy, but witty and undeniably true. Like a Mel Brooks film. People need to be shown how ridiculous all this stuff can get and learn to laugh at themselves and not take everything so seriously all the time. They need to be BOMBARDED with ridiculous silliness so much so that they just have to burst out laughing. Everyone needs a release of laughter. This is exactly what happened in the past with overbearing religion. The New Religion needs the same thing to happen to it. People will be offended, but that is necessary so the masses can say "It's not that bad, it's just comedy. Chill out." There can't be any subtleties or eggshell-walking. It's gotta come in like a freight train. But a really flashy fancy looking one so people won't just ignore it and also with balloons and clown horns. Just to make the usual suspects falter for a second and hesitate from the sheer absurdity. To the point where they can't even understand it. (but the younger generation will)

We need a new counter culture to rebel against this downer "serious business" world whose comedians can't get too risqué against the line lest their livelihoods be taken away. Which means an already established AAA company/studio is not going to be the one to do it, despite Duke Nukem being the perfect vehicle to deliver the message. It's gotta be someone with nothing much to lose who doesn't have a reputation to uphold. Some upstart who's going to dare to change things because the establishment won't (because they depend on it) and win the hearts of the next generation who are always poised to rebel against the former. Like Rock and Roll.

People have been complacent for a long time now. People are starting to get tired of the same old thing. People need something to "out-hip" the current establishment because they've only survived this long on the notion that they're the latest thing and crying "down with the old, in with the new". Well they're getting old now too. I don't know when or how it's going to happen but it will. It's inevitable.

Or not.

[gemeaux333]

A source of inspiration - you can call it : "Duke versus Google/Youtube, introducing Fred and Seb from Le Joueur du Grenier"
https://forums.duke4...-nukem-forever/

[Danukem]

The character model and animations in the Duke Begins footage really miss the mark for me. He looks like a stiff middle-aged man wearing a toupee.

As for the current debate: Duke just being Duke is quite anti-woke enough for me. I don't want to have my immersion in the game world broken by seeing the hands of the developers reach up into the characters and puppet them to express their political views or make them into straw men of their enemies. Just make the game you want to play and let messages arise organically. When you start deliberately shoving messages into the game it compromises the art, makes it less fun, and it demonstrates that the people you are attacking are living rent-free in your head.

Edit: heh, I need to think about that second paragraph some more.

[Aleks]

Quote

The current state of society definitely needs to be parodied. In the most over-the-top ridiculous eye-gougingly ham-fisted way possible. It needs to be in your face and totally and laughably cheesy, but witty and undeniably true. Like a Mel Brooks film. People need to be shown how ridiculous all this stuff can get and learn to laugh at themselves and not take everything so seriously all the time. They need to be BOMBARDED with ridiculous silliness so much so that they just have to burst out laughing. Everyone needs a release of laughter. This is exactly what happened in the past with overbearing religion. The New Religion needs the same thing to happen to it. People will be offended, but that is necessary so the masses can say "It's not that bad, it's just comedy. Chill out." There can't be any subtleties or eggshell-walking. It's gotta come in like a freight train. But a really flashy fancy looking one so people won't just ignore it and also with balloons and clown horns. Just to make the usual suspects falter for a second and hesitate from the sheer absurdity. To the point where they can't even understand it. (but the younger generation will)

While I completely agree with this as for the principle - i.e. people in general need to get some damn distance, ability to laugh at themselves and not take themselves too seriously - I don't think Duke is the right guy you're looking at. In fact the fat pink hair lesbian boss reminds me pretty closely of another franchise, which would fit much better to that purpose, and it's Postal.

As far as new Duke game goes, I tend to lean more towards what ck3D and Ninety-Six wrote. Duke isn't about politics and taking stance, he kicks alien ass. Any potential new product involving Duke should just be about having a kickass gameplay, style and mood, which is really what made DN3D so great, without shoving the opinions of developers down everyone's throats. The fact that it's Duke speaks volumes for itself. After all, isn't Duke the ultimate feminist, fighting for the liberation of green slime-entrapped women from the patriarchy of male pigs (literally!)?

The bottom line is, with the properly witty writing, Duke could bypass any kind of woke censorship with a smile and showing them the middle finger at the same time. People in the Eastern block perfected laughing in the face of communist censorship (which was far more oppressive than the current cancel culture) with their art over the years, so it can't be that hard.