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Are you guys going to make a new Shadow Warrior source port?

User is offline   malvado 

#1

Really wish you would. Redux doesn't run well for me and glitches out frequently.
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #2

In April, Striker and I restored the VoidSW source code that has been in the EDuke32 SVN repository for years to a buildable state. The input handling is stubbed out so that it builds, so it needs to be redone to match EDuke32's way of doing it, which itself is being redone as part of Ion Fury's development. Beyond that it only needs implementation of EDuke32-like features such as autodetection of Steam installs.
6

User is offline   Phredreeke 

#3

I can't seem to find the post, but I recall Terminx or Hendricks saying that Deadly Kiss will be Voidpoint's next release after Ion Maiden, presumably that will coincide with the release of their eduke32-based SW port
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #4

No, VoidSW will come first.
8

User is offline   Phredreeke 

#5

Great news - looking forward to it
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User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#6

If Deadly Kiss is a VoidPoint project, does that mean it will get a retail treatment akin to Ion Fury?
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #7

Lowercase p. And no, it will be a freeware release like WD and TD. I have already stated this elsewhere.
4

User is offline   Ninety-Six 

#8

This is all great news. (news to me anyway, at least).
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User is offline   Master O 

#9

 Hendricks266, on 19 July 2019 - 10:33 AM, said:

Lowercase p. And no, it will be a freeware release like WD and TD. I have already stated this elsewhere.


Is it going to be included with SW Redux on GOG or as a standalone download? Can I assume the latter?

This post has been edited by Master O: 20 July 2019 - 06:47 AM

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User is offline   Phredreeke 

#10

I think that's up to Devolver. On one hand, it would complete the package.

On the other hand, VoidSW renders Redux redundant, and unlike Duke the base game can be freely downloaded on Steam and GOG.
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User is offline   Wild Dog 

#11

View PostPhredreeke, on 20 July 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:


On the other hand, VoidSW renders Redux redundant, and unlike Duke the base game can be freely downloaded on Steam and GOG.

While is true that the original Shadow Warrior is free to play which means that with VoidSW you will be able to play Shadow warrior with Eduke style improvements in the other hand
if you are somewhat an achievement freak, then you will want redux, just for the achievements.
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User is offline   ReaperAA 

#12

I am glad to hear that VoidSW is Hendrick's next goal after Ion Fury. It would mean that SW will finally get a "Good" port because both ProAsm and Redux have issues.

However, there is one thing I wondered. Wouldn't it be better to try implement SW support in Eduke32 rather than trying to maintain 2 different ports.
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User is offline   Phredreeke 

#13

It's in a similar situation to NBlood. While all three games use the Build engine their gameside code is completely different.
1

User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#14

View PostPhredreeke, on 06 August 2019 - 03:21 AM, said:

It's in a similar situation to NBlood. While all three games use the Build engine their gameside code is completely different.

This.
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User is offline   Photonic 

#15

View PostPhredreeke, on 06 August 2019 - 03:21 AM, said:

It's in a similar situation to NBlood. While all three games use the Build engine their gameside code is completely different.

View PostStriker, on 06 August 2019 - 03:22 AM, said:

This.

The SW Build engine is descended from Duke3Ds, 3DR doing both games. Bloods build engine is forked before Duke3D and has more differences. And yes game code is unique for all three, unlike NAM and WWII GI which are based on Duke3D game code.
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User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#16

One of the tricker elements of combining the ports is the scripting language. I would have thought that it'd be extremely difficult making the full con scripting system work for SW and Blood.

P.s. I hope the actual first priority after Ion Fury would be fixing the clipping bugs that have cropped up since their big overhaul https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif That and multiplayer https://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/ninja.gif

This post has been edited by Micky C: 06 August 2019 - 10:26 PM

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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#17

View PostPhotonic, on 06 August 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

The SW Build engine is descended from Duke3Ds, 3DR doing both games. Bloods build engine is forked before Duke3D and has more differences. And yes game code is unique for all three, unlike NAM and WWII GI which are based on Duke3D game code.

SW Build Engine is not a descendant of Duke3D's. There's very little in common between the two in the game logic either. SW was developed in parallel to Duke3D, just like Blood, Powerslave, and whatnot. It's history goes back pretty far.

Spoiler

Either way, there's still a lot of work to be done. Input code needs to be redone, anim.cpp needs to be rewritten to make use of animlib in MACT, and OSD commands will need to be set up (at least, I think). Then there's lower-priority things like polymer stuff, etc.

I did what I could to get things to compile, the main menu works, but anims are dark and you can't get in-game because it doesn't respond to input yet, since our Build engine doesn't handle input in quite the same way (in other words, much more gracefully, but it requires some changes on the game's side of things to work).

This post has been edited by Striker: 07 August 2019 - 08:39 AM

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User is offline   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#18

I'd have to search old backup drives or CDs to be sure, but I seem to remember having a folder for GLDuke or something similar. Damn, now I'm curious enough that I'll have to dig them out and look. <_<

Never mind. A google search shows it existed.

This post has been edited by Mark: 07 August 2019 - 08:32 AM

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User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#19

Very nice graphs, but World Tour is clearly placed where it is to stay in Gearbox's good graces. So Gearbox couldn't even develop a decent episode, but within the same timeframe developed a windows native source port with a 32-bit renderer and dynamic lighting, all from the original source code. Yeah, ok.
-1

User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#20

Yeah, I remember GLDuke. This old thing: https://sourceforge....jects/glduke3d/

View PostRadar, on 07 August 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

Very nice graphs, but World Tour is clearly placed where it is to stay in Gearbox's good graces. So Gearbox couldn't even develop a decent episode, but within the same timeframe developed a windows native source port with a 32-bit renderer and dynamic lighting, all from the original source code. Yeah, ok.

Nerve developed the port itself, not Gearbox. Same people who made the XBLA ports of Doom 1 and 2. Gearbox just hired them, and got the old crew together to make the maps and commentary.

To save time though, and I imagine to keep compatibility with already made maps, it does use the same sector effector numbers and properties for point lights as EDuke32. However, as far as we know, there's no actual code shared between World Tour and EDuke32.

This post has been edited by Striker: 07 August 2019 - 08:50 AM

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User is offline   oasiz 

  • Dr. Effector

#21

Yeah, if the game has CON then it is based on duke3d, otherwise it uses it's own branch.
Witchaven might be the only game that actually used it for more than one game outside of the duke branch ones.

A scripting language that covers all will be a challenge, one step would be to abstract many of the formats to cover various uses and sort of rewrite a bunch of this to be more general purpose.
BUILD map format was pretty cool for it's time as it basically had those hi/lo/extra tags you know that were actually more like memory slots for sprite/wall/sectors that the devs could hijack in to and repurpose those numbers to mean whatever they want to. In some cases they ended up hijacking more as they ran out of those slots. Many aren't really needed in the end and can be "restored" during map load while giving few precious free bytes for additional attribute storage.

However with BUILD the map format also did fulfill it's memory purpose by acting practically as RAM ingame and describing the state of many internal things, along with it's limitations :)
Many objects and functions kind of assume this game specific language/dialect when communicating and you will need to re-label many internal fields and functions to just simply assume less. Additional tags and game specific things should exist as real unique data fields rather than simply blindly pointing from one thing to another.

However I think that this project also requires quite huge understanding of the other games and the engine quirks to be worth it, along with allowing expansion from the get go.
You might be able to bolt in LUA or whatever to the game but it won't be portable as it will again just function against one system.

Currently CON is the closest to achieving this but it still is severely limited by Duke baggage and old decisions.
2

User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#22

 Striker, on 07 August 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

Nerve developed the port itself, not Gearbox. Same people who made the XBLA ports of Doom 1 and 2. Gearbox just hired them, and got the old crew together to make the maps and commentary.

To save time though, and I imagine to keep compatibility with already made maps, it does use the same sector effector numbers and properties for point lights as EDuke32. However, as far as we know, there's no actual code shared between World Tour and EDuke32.


I'm sure those graphs were made to the best of Hendricks' knowledge. But I will add that even XBLA's JFDuke3D base was an accidental discovery. For a long time it was assumed to be an original work.
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User is offline   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #23

View PostRadar, on 07 August 2019 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm sure those graphs were made to the best of Hendricks' knowledge. But I will add that even XBLA's JFDuke3D base was an accidental discovery. For a long time it was assumed to be an original work.

These graphs were made with evidence. XBLA was never assumed to be an original work because JonoF is listed in the credits, with name misspelled at that. Likewise, we wanted Gearbox to use EDuke32 for World Tour but they told us they were going to start over, and the port clearly shows that they did.

Your antagonistic attitude is polluting the community. Don't make me take out the trash for a second time.
4

User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#24

Hendricks, I'm sorry I misremembered the history of XBLA. It's been 10+ years since I read those threads on 3DR so my memory was clearly hazy. I'm not being antagonistic. I just have a certain way of talking. I know I complain about warps and stuff but I only have admiration and support for the EDuke32 team. I bought Ion Fury twice. I only wish you guys success.
2

User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#25

View PostRadar, on 07 August 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

Hendricks, I'm sorry I misremembered the history of XBLA. It's been 10+ years since I read those threads on 3DR so my memory was clearly hazy. I'm not being antagonistic. I just have a certain way of talking. I know I complain about warps and stuff but I only have admiration and support for the EDuke32 team. I bought Ion Fury twice. I only wish you guys success.

Glad this could come to a positive conclusion.

The main issue that came up with the XBLA port was because they didn't release sources despite using JonoF's code, which, by rule of the GPL, they should have released; unless they got specific permission from JonoF to keep it closed for some reason.

This post has been edited by Striker: 07 August 2019 - 12:44 PM

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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#26

View PostHendricks266, on 07 August 2019 - 10:26 AM, said:

Your antagonistic attitude is polluting the community. Don't make me take out the trash for a second time.

Dude you gotta stop watching Feminist Frequency.
1

User is offline   Photonic 

#27

View PostStriker, on 07 August 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

SW Build Engine is not a descendant of Duke3D's. There's very little in common between the two in the game logic either. SW was developed in parallel to Duke3D, just like Blood, Powerslave, and whatnot. It's history goes back pretty far.


That infograph refers to games, the Build engine itself used for Blood and Shadow Warrior are post Build used for Duke3d, as described on Ken Silvermans site. Voxel support and ROR are examples.

Quote

...
03/28/1995: Serial/modem code in Ken's Build game declared bug-free
04/16/1995: Added 2D texturized MAP VIEW mode
04/26/1995: HI-RES modes now supported in all resolutions
06/07/1995: Designed GROUP file system (.GRP files)
08/29/1995: Finally added SLOPES!
09/14/1995: Added support for VESA 2.0 linear modes
09/14/1995: Designed LRU/MRU-style caching system
12/31/1995: First tested player movement code with no lag over a modem/network
12/31/1995: Ken changes working status from employee to consultant
01/29/1996: Duke Nukem 3D 1.0 Released
02/08/1996: Added VOXEL support (.KVX files)
04/2?/1996: STACKED SECTORS (room over room) first demonstrated in the Build engine
12/31/1996: Ken terminates consulting services with Apogee Software peacefully, and by mutual agreement
01/19/1997: Ken returns to Brown University after a 3-year leave of absence
03/07/1997: Blood 1 Released
05/13/1997: Shadow Warrior 1.0 Released
...

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User is offline   Striker 

  • Auramancer

#28

View PostPhotonic, on 07 August 2019 - 02:14 PM, said:

That infograph refers to games, the Build engine itself used for Blood and Shadow Warrior are post Build used for Duke3d, as described on Ken Silvermans site. Voxel support and ROR are examples.

Date doesn't mean much. Sure, there's stuff that's shared later down the line, but they weren't necessarily based on one another chronologically single-file. Still, it's irrelevant to the work that still needs to go into VoidSW.

Spoiler


This post has been edited by Striker: 07 August 2019 - 04:35 PM

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User is offline   Jim Rockford 

  • Banned on Rigel

#29

View PostStriker, on 07 August 2019 - 04:30 PM, said:

https://i.imgur.com/COgbGzA.png
Really?

That response was loaded with estrogen and Radar is a beloved and cherished member of this forum.

Also don't you ever post Pozzed Sonic ever again.

This post has been edited by BlitZ: 07 August 2019 - 10:32 PM

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User is online   Radar 

  • Banned on TheGearPage

#30

>pozzed sonic

Dude you're the best poster ever.
0

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