[johnnythewolf]

I am surprised there is not already a dedicated Borderlands thread (at least, one that is about the games and not just Randy's antics), so I am taking the liberty to create one.

So I just found out that Gearbox has released a whole new Borderlands 2 story DLC that is meant to bridge the gap between it and Borderlands 3.



Not going to lie, it feels really weird to go back to BL2 after so many years. But hey, the DLC is free for those of us who already own the game or the Handsome Collection. It also seems like Gearbox has salvaged some of the ideas (e.g. the plant mutant enemies) they had planned for that scrapped The Pre-Sequel DLC.

[Danukem]

Yeah I started playing that earlier today and will continue tonight. I've always liked the Borderlands series with the exception of Borderlands 1, and I think the series gets way too much hate around here.

[Danukem]

I've played through about 60% of the DLC now with my friend Batsuey (voice of Bombshell in AA) and it's good. It's a full-scale DLC, comparable to the pirate one or Dragon's Keep. It brings in characters from the Telltale game that most players don't know about, and sets the stage for Borderlands 3. It's essentially a $20 DLC that they are giving away for free, and the Handsome collection is free or nearly free on all platforms, so there's no reason not to try it.

[johnnythewolf]

Yeah, I am kind of amazed that Gearbox would release this for a 7 year-old game. I guess they could not do that with The Pre-Sequel because of story reasons, but still, given their track record, it is rather unexpected. From what I have seen so far, it does not look like something they quickly slapped together either, so it could not be just a PR stunt to make up for BL3's temporary Epic Store exclusivity.

I honestly cannot think of a company that has done that; the only example that comes to mind is Running With Scissors releasing a new expansion pack for Postal 2 twelve years after the original's release, but it was not free and it was done so because RWS were trying to distance themselves for the Postal III fiasco.

[Danukem]

johnnythewolf, on 10 June 2019 - 04:22 AM, said:

Yeah, I am kind of amazed that Gearbox would release this for a 7 year-old game. I guess they could not do that with The Pre-Sequel because of story reasons, but still, given their track record, it is rather unexpected. From what I have seen so far, it does not look like something they quickly slapped together either, so it could not be just a PR stunt to make up for BL3's temporary Epic Store exclusivity.

I honestly cannot think of a company that has done that; the only example that comes to mind is Running With Scissors releasing a new expansion pack for Postal 2 twelve years after the original's release, but it was not free and it was done so because RWS were trying to distance themselves for the Postal III fiasco.

This DLC has been remoured since late last year, when mysterious updates were discovered on Steam DB:



Recently when Gearbox released the free HD packs for Borderlands 2 and the Presequel, and released Borderlands 1 remastered, a lot of us lost hope and assumed that the mysterious Steam DB projects were all related to that. In fact that was the case for the Presequel, but for Borderlands 2 there was an additional project branch that turned out to be this new DLC.

When it comes to the Borderlands series, Gearbox has a good track record. You can argue that a few of the DLC over the years haven't been grat, but Borderlands is clearly the heart and soul of the company and it's where they do their best work.

[johnnythewolf]

Good to know.

If I have one major criticism of the DLC as of yet, it is that the main villain is just so boring and forgettable; maybe he will get better later on, but right now, he just comes across as The Pre-Sequel's Colonel Zarpedon all over again without the sympathetic personality and the understandable motives. None of the Borderlands 2's DLC villains were exceptional, but they tended to be more fun and memorable.

[Danukem]

johnnythewolf, on 11 June 2019 - 05:42 AM, said:

If I have one major criticism of the DLC as of yet, it is that the main villain is just so boring and forgettable; maybe he will get better later on,

He doesn't.

Having finished it now, I would put this DLC somewhere in the middle of the pack. Still good, though.

[johnnythewolf]

Do you remember what the counter with the brown icon of what looks like a '1' upside down above the Golden Key one in the Badass Rank screen stand for? It has been so long since I have played Borderlands, I have no idea what it is supposed to be.

[johnnythewolf]

Ah, nevermind. I just figured out what they are: Torgue Tokens. Man, I really need to replay the main game and the previous DLCs...

[Sledgehammer]

This is really hard to resist not to buy it. 610円=5.62 USD.

[johnnythewolf]

Has anyone been able to beat Lt. Hoffman on Ultimate Vault Hunter mode? He is the final mini-boss of the "BFFFs" sidequest and he seems to be simply impossible.

Like the previous mini-bosses in the quest, he has a very strong regenerating shield and can down my lvl 75 Psycho in a couple of shots, so close combat is simply out of question. I cannot get a clear shot from afar either, as the fight is taking place in a horribly-designed area where he always has the higher ground and there is no way to flank him. What is worse is that his AI keeps getting reset if I attack him from afar and as such whatever damage I managed to inflict to his shield gets instantly repaired. It is truly infuriating.

[Danukem]

[Danukem]

Borderland 3 launches in 45 minutes. I will be playing it.

[Zaxx]

I won't:

Seriously what the fuck is this? I can't believe that a DRM like this could exist, please be a bug.

[Danukem]

Dunno, I'm playing on console.

[Zaxx]

Well, the PC port looks like a real treat:
https://www.vg247.co...ce-issues-bugs/

[Danukem]

Hmm, reading that it sounds like the issues go away when people turn their settings down. 1st day of wide release, bug fixes and optimizations to come no doubt.

On console, I played coop with Batsuey for about 5 hours so far. We have a setup with 2 consoles in one room, one of them a PS4 the other PS4 Pro. Performance on regular PS4 is barely acceptable imo; it feels like it runs at 25-30 fps. On the Pro it is noticeably better but still felt like it was under 60.

We only encountered one bug -- after entering a certain area on Pandora, Claptrap starts a tutorial dialogue about how to open a special door. He keeps repeating the dialogue even if you never even see the door and leave the area. He eventually stops if you start a new story chapter, but it's pretty hilarious and annoying to hear him keep repeating it even as you do other quests. I assume that quitting and restarting would also alleviate it. But that was the only bug we found.

Visuals, gunplay, movement and the gun variety are all good and improvements over BL2. The biggest improvement for me is the enemies, especially all of their animations and physics reactions to getting shot. The gore is nice, too. The story and NPCs are typical Borderlands, nothing too spectacular but good enough. I'm not far enough along to comment on the quality and diversity of the locations, but so far so good. Some of the optional side quests are kind of lame. The worst one so far involved re-doing an area but with a graphical filter because it was "virtual reality".

I'm not sold on the new Sanctuary. Navigating the ship does not feel intuitive and I'm still getting lost. Also the fast travel system feels clunky now, like they overcomplicated the navigation. The inventory screens are about the same -- no better, no worse.

[Radar]

Why would any shill play Borderlands.

[Putrid Pete]

Remember when you were a kid, and in the playground, the park or at school you'd see other kids playing with a toy that required some minor skill or understanding of it, such as a Yo-yo or a Hacky sack? You'd see them having massive fun with them and you couldn't wait to try them out yourself to get some of that fun, but finally once you got to try them you couldn't do anything with them and you were just sad that you couldn't do what others did with them. That's sort of how I feel every time I play a Borderlands game: I see everybody else having tons of fun with them, and they are simply able to get all this fun out of BL games, and that gets me excited to try them out, and once I do... I just don't get the same feeling. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just doing things wrong: maybe it's because I've only played solo or because I'm just not that into the looter-shooter aspects of it. Maybe its because when I think of RPG + Shooter I expect something more like Deus Ex or System shock. Whatever it is I just don't seem to get the same fun out of Borderlands that others do. Also, am I the only one that just doesn't follow whatever the fuck is going on in BL's story and/or lore? I finished BL 1 and got about 70% into Borderlands 2 and if somebody ask me what the story was about, I don't think I can explain it to them.

Anyway, seems like most people tend to play it with friends, so maybe at some point I'll have to try it like that to see if the experience is any better. The Division, for example, was mad boring for me when I started playing because I was doing it solo, but after my buddies got it and we started playing together I had a lot of fun in it despite it's flaws. Perhaps the same will happen to me with BL. Either way for BL3 if I'm ever going to get it, I'll wait for a release in another platform since I don't care for the Epic Store.

[Danukem]

Putrid Pete, on 13 September 2019 - 06:03 AM, said:

maybe it's because I've only played solo or because I'm just not that into the looter-shooter aspects of it. Maybe its because when I think of RPG + Shooter I expect something more like Deus Ex or System shock.

Putrid Pete, on 13 September 2019 - 06:03 AM, said:

The Division, for example, was mad boring for me when I started playing because I was doing it solo, but after my buddies got it and we started playing together I had a lot of fun in it despite it's flaws. Perhaps the same will happen to me with BL.

Exactly. You have to like looter shooters and it's best played with friends. The gunplay is actually pretty decent now, too.

You don't sound like one of the haters, you are just somone who isn't into the game. There's no reason why you need to force yourself to play, you are probably never going to like it very much, and that's fine.

What I find funny is how some people seem to revel in their hatred of the series and want to share that hatred with everyone. They could just, you know, not play the game and not worry about it.

[Putrid Pete]

Yeah, I don't hate borderlands as a franchise but maybe it's just not for me, like you said. I still think I should at least try it with a group of friends at some point so I won't give up on it entirely. I like the colorful graphics, energetic mood on the characters, and I don't remember hating the gunplay in either game I played.

[Danukem]

Minireview. Still have not finished the game on any character, but have played with multiple characters about halfway into the game and have watched plenty of gameplay and analysis.

The Pros:

• The core looter shooter gameplay is better than ever. Gunplay feels good, player movement feels good. There are bazillians of guns with lots of cool new gimmicks and genuinely fun ideas. Caveat: not so fun if you are underleveled!
  
• Visuals are nice, with all the physics and lighting improvements one would expect in a 2019 game.
  
• A large and environmentally diverse game world.

The Cons:

• Performance is disappointing at launch for many players, partly due to DRM on PC. Game is barely playable on base model PS4/Xbox One. You need the upgraded models or a beefy PC to get a good experience right now (this may change with patches).
  
• Characters. story and VA are meh overall. The game lacks a Handsome Jack --there's no central character with gravitas. Pretty much all the characters are annoying or just bland. The story is forgettable and is just an excuse to get the player to go from point A to B to C.
  
• While there are various incremental improvements over BL2, BL3 does nothing to fundamentally advance the genre. If you don't like BL2, you won't like BL3. Some aspects do not even have incremental improvements: for example, the inventory management feels slightly worse. Fast travel is changed so that you can do it anywhere now, but the clunky interface makes it feel worse overall.

My preliminary conclusions: Borderlands 3 is a solid, fun game for those who like looter shooters. The technical issues at launch will be ironed out and it will become a smoother experience. This is THE flagship title for Gearbox and they will work hard to make it better. I think the progression we will see is something like in Destiny 2, where people dumped on it shortly after launch for its shortcomings, but then Bungie worked hard and now it is quite respectable. This will definitely NOT be a situation like with Anthem, where the game suffered from too little content and the devs ignored player complaints until it died. BL3 will be well supported for at least a year, with a steady stream of improvements and quality DLC.

However, the long-term appeal of BL3 is still somewhat limited compared with, say, Destiny. There are several fundamental things about the game that will limit it. The endgame is kind of tacked on with special difficulty modes, rather than having rich endgame activities for dedicated players. Also, the way that difficulty scaling works gives rise to some issues. It's a bit complicated to explain, but essentially enemies get spongier and drop better loot, and everything gets more chaotic. The result is you get players getting too many legendaries too quickly, but not necessarily feeling powerful in the process. In addition to endgame shortcomings, the overall aesthetic does not appeal to everyone. Also, the characters and humor are annoying to a lot of people.

[Zaxx]

Quote

This is THE flagship title for Gearbox and they will work hard to make it better.

That's kind of the thing though: Borderlands 3 is not a flagship title because in order to choose a flagship you need a fucking fleet. They have absolutely nothing else that matters one bit and they still manage to release a game that's "just more Borderlands" with a bunch of technical issues.

This gives the impression of a company that just lost its edge (though it's debatable if they ever had an edge).

[NightFright]

Yeah, basically the Borderlands series is the only thing that keeps Gearbox above sea level right now. No Borderlands, no Gearbox. They couldn't screw up this one - which they did for me due to being Epic exclusive for one year.

Whether I'll get it on Steam will depend on several factors:
- Performance improvements
- DRM removal
- Pricing (not gonna pay full price for waiting)
- Which other games are available in 1 year

I want to play it, but I have become sceptical when it comes to Gearbox. I know, it's basically just Randy who is a jerk, the rest of the company is probably OK, hard-working and knows what they are doing. But well, the fish usually stinks from the head. We'll see next year.

[Zaxx]

I'm not a fan, I always thought that Borderlands is a dumb proto FPS people only play because they get hooked on the progression loop and so what would be dogshit in itself becomes enjoyable because of the positive psychological feedback it's giving you. Borderlands is basically the ugly woman in the bar only drunk people will fuck, it's just that numbers are your booze here. And what's with the fucking cringe humor, seriously?

And even on console it's this bad:

At this point I simply can't blame only Randy anymore, this is the usual "eh, it's good enough" fuckup you do when you couldn't keep up with changing industry standards. This shit is running like PS3 or 360 games used to run back in the day where "close enough" was your target framerate. Close enough is not good enough anymore, Randy and co. because your game looks like a polished up previous generation title. Like what could explain that Gears 5 is running on the same engine, it looks 3 times better and also provides a mostly solid 4K 60 fps on Xbox One X? After all the goddamn time it took to get BL3 out the door I can only come up with one thing: GBX are a bunch of hacks.

[Danukem]

Zaxx, on 15 September 2019 - 06:33 PM, said:

That's kind of the thing though: Borderlands 3 is not a flagship title because in order to choose a flagship you need a fucking fleet. They have absolutely nothing else that matters one bit and they still manage to release a game that's "just more Borderlands" with a bunch of technical issues.

This gives the impression of a company that just lost its edge (though it's debatable if they ever had an edge).

There's just nothing like a full release to expose problems. Keep in mind there were hundreds of hours of gameplay of the finished game uploaded and streamed by hundreds of youtubers and twitch streamers going back for months now, and none of that showed the technical issues. But of course streamers are going to have the best gaming rigs, so that's a biased sample; there's no conspiracy here but it looks like Gearbox fucked up by not doing enough testing on a wide range of hardware.

Having played the game a lot now, it looks to me like they did pour a ton of work into the game for years, but they should have tightened their focus more on performance and the overall user experience during the last six months or so. The game has oodles of quality content. Most side quests are detailed with their own voice acting and often big, detailed map areas devoted to them. They even had a whole team that did nothing but make guns, and it shows. But, for an average player, all that don't mean much if the game isn't running smooth. One example of a poor decision in my opinion was including split-screen couch coop for consoles. I mean, that made sense when porting BL2 to the current generation of consoles, but not for a 2019 game on an aging gen of consoles.

EDIT: Gameplay in Gears 5 happens mostly in smaller contained environments, no? There is travel outside, but that's not where most of the action happens. Borderlands has always been in huge outdoor maps with lots going on.

[Zaxx]

Trooper Dan, on 15 September 2019 - 10:28 PM, said:

EDIT: Gameplay in Gears 5 happens mostly in smaller contained environments, no? There is travel outside, but that's not where most of the action happens. Borderlands has always been in huge outdoor maps with lots going on.

Yeah, sure but you know, usually those large open world games can only run at 30 fps on consoles because they demand a lot from the CPU while in the case of Borderlands that aspect is not really there. It's a large game but it's not Assassin's Creed or GTA. There are no massive enemy numbers on the screen, the complexity of the environments is still at the level of the previous generation, there is no generational leap to speak of in terms of the game design here really. When the first trailers came out I was almost certain that the game looks so dated in design because they are targeting a high framerate, oh boy how wrong I was...

[Danukem]

Zaxx, on 15 September 2019 - 08:53 PM, said:

I'm not a fan, I always thought that Borderlands is a dumb proto FPS people only play because they get hooked on the progression loop and so what would be dogshit in itself becomes enjoyable because of the positive psychological feedback it's giving you. Borderlands is basically the ugly woman in the bar only drunk people will fuck, it's just that numbers are your booze here.

Well if that's right then no one of discerning taste should like the series. Not that having "bad taste" is necessarily anything to be ashamed of. We are allowed to like pop music and fast food and games that hook us on progression loops if it helps us get through the day.

But I actually think that there is real quality in the gameplay and guns. There are people with discerning taste who recognize the quality. Take this guy for example, a Destiny player/ youtuber who plays mostly competitive and does lots of weapon review videos:



But yes there is plenty of cringe when it comes to the characters and dialogue. I don't know if it's gotten worse, or if it's the same and people are less tolerant of it. I think it's about the same, but the problem in BL3 Is that there is no Handsome Jack or other interesting character to focus on.

[Zaxx]

This is "great":

Now I'm not the conspiracy theorist type and I refuse to believe a lot of the nonsense that's flying in Epic's direction on the internet but this version of Denuvo seems so creepy that I would never ever install a game that's using it.

[Radar]

Pound me harder Randy!