
PC won't boot past POST
#1 Posted 05 March 2019 - 10:00 PM
My motherboard is an MSI P67A-GD65 (B3). One of those LGA 1155 sockets with a Sandy Bridge i7 2600K CPU. I've had it since I bought it and built my PC in 2011 (with some advice from many people here, actually). It has a UEFI BIOS. Some people online suggested updating the BIOS, but I can't even get to the BIOS. It just sits there with a solid cursor on the top left corner and the number "98" on the bottom right, which apparently means there's a "USB input connect issue." People suggested unplugging every USB device to see if it allowed a fast boot. Unfortunately, after unplugging not only every USB device but every internal SATA device as well, nothing different happened. I have a PS/2 keyboard, so I tried a USB keyboard. It simply beeps twice (one low note, one high note) every time I hit/release a key. The same beep it makes every couple minutes if I do nothing. I'm not sure what that means. Doesn't do that to my PS/2 keyboard which the system doesn't respond to at all. Also there are no lights on (like numlock) on either keyboard. I also tried the recommended action of unplugging everything but one HDD and one RAM stick but that didn't work either. I tried swapping RAM. Nothing. Course, I only have the two sticks but there's no reason that it would be the RAM. The beep pattern code is not consistent with that kind of problem. I even tried clearing the CMOS and removing the battery. Nothing.
Others who have had this problem in the past just got a new mobo. Unfortunately I can't afford that as I'd have to purchase a brand new copy of Windows 10. On Newegg, a new LGA 1155 mobo would set me back about $100ish CAD give or take. But again, that doesn't cover Windows 10. I upgraded from an OEM version of Windows 7 Professional which means that any Win 10 upgrade license doesn't get tied to the OEM serial but the hardware. Changing out the mobo would negate my Windows 10 license and I'd have to roll back to Windows 7. Unfortunately, because Windows 7 was also OEM that probably means that won't work either. So either way I'm screwed.
I bought the system 8 years ago ironically enough, with money I made from this game soundtrack contract. And now that my contract is complete, my mobo decides to not boot anymore. It's so maddening. Everything else works fine. By all accounts it should boot normally as being stuck on the "98" checkpoint code without any USB devices plugged in is not typical behaviour which means something is wrong.
Some people said they had to just let it sit there for a few minutes (up to a couple hours) and it would eventually boot. Or constantly restart and/or power off/on repeatedly until it managed to get into Windows. So far that hasn't worked for me. It's a shame to be left without your command center all the sudden. Now I'm trapped on this little laptop with no USB3.0 ports and like a measly 4 USB2.0 ports. I'm in no position right now to buy a new system or replacement parts so....I guess this is life now. Unless I can figure this out. I had a bunch more music projects I wanted to get to and now I can't. This also means that Hexen's SC-55 music pack is on hold for the time being.
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 05 March 2019 - 10:22 PM
#2 Posted 06 March 2019 - 02:37 AM
Still though, have you tried booting with different GPU? Surely you don't have another CPU for such socket, but there must be at least one old working GPU laying around somewhere? You could try and clean your PC from dust (including GPU), but yeah, the dust being a problem has its particular symptoms, though I could say the same about GPU.
This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 06 March 2019 - 02:38 AM
#3 Posted 06 March 2019 - 06:51 AM
unplugging your power cable from the PSU, pulling the CMOS battery off of the motherboard, then holding the power button for a minute - or move the cmos jumper & wait a minute. Once you've done this, reinstall the battery, plug the power cord back in, and try to boot.
or try these instructions
https://forum-en.msi...p?topic=31222.0
This post has been edited by Forge: 06 March 2019 - 06:53 AM
#4 Posted 06 March 2019 - 08:22 AM
Sledgehammer, on 06 March 2019 - 02:37 AM, said:
I had figured it was unrelated because unplugging those ports from the board yielded the same results (they're extra ports that plug into the board and the ports themselves fit into the PCI card bays). I think they stopped working because I kept plugging things into those ports upside down because it doesn't have much resistance when putting it in the wrong way (don't do a 'that's what she said' joke. please.) It was after that recently a few weeks ago that plugging them in the right way stopped working altogether, which led me to turning it off to see if the cable came loose. If I hadn't powered off the system would still be running now. Ugh.
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I looked up the signals and those beeps signify normal operation apparently. One long low beep and a variable number of high short beeps afterward signifies just registering all the USB devices that are plugged in because it's looking for possible boot devices. It gives a single beep when nothing is plugged in, though. And when I plug in a USB keyboard every hit/release of a key generates the same tone, which is strange. But I can't find an explanation for what that means anywhere. Also, besides this issue, my system works fine and has been incredible stable for a long time now. No memory issues or crashing/BSOD events. Nothing.
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There was a ton of dust (my case is a dust magnet). Cleared that all out though. I do not have another GPU actually. I gave my old one to my dad and it died shortly after. There's also no onboard video which is I didn't remember or expect because that was exactly the next thing I was going to test. I MIGHT have an old PCI card of some kind lying around....I don't think so, though. My old ones were all either ISA or AGP. I do have a Matrox Mystique card. Maybe I'll dig that out and give it a go. I don't think the GPU is the problem, though.
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I don't particularly care for getting a sliced and diced version of Windows 10, which is and online-dependent OS.
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 06 March 2019 - 08:37 AM
#6 Posted 06 March 2019 - 09:58 AM
#7 Posted 06 March 2019 - 12:43 PM
get the same model mobo and maybe your O/S won't notice.
#8 Posted 06 March 2019 - 04:23 PM
This tut is how to fix a monitor, but it's the same deal. If you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, see if anyone you know would be able to do it for you.
If it's a USB error, make sure you unplug the USB header cables from the motherboard that go to the sockets on your case.
#9 Posted 07 March 2019 - 06:59 AM
I found a replacement mobo of the same model being sold from Russia. Might be my last cheapest chance outside of getting a new license for Windows or building a new system from scratch (it's getting about that time, honestly).
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I unplugged almost everything, but probably not the front panel USB ports. I'll give that a try later today. If it's a capacitor issue that won't be fun.
#10 Posted 08 March 2019 - 05:05 AM
#11 Posted 08 March 2019 - 07:30 AM
Turns out I already did unplug all the USB ports that I could. I don't suppose the cables for the front panel buttons like reset, power, and hdd lights and stuff would make a difference?
At this point, I'm considering it kaput. My sister has been collecting PC parts over the months and she acquired them all and started building it the day after my computer died. She has everything except a GPU so last night after my last ditch attempt I decided to just loan her mine until she got a new one. Works fine on her machine. I'm getting along on my cheapo laptop, but I just can't produce anything beyond a chiptune or tracker MOD album and I can't play newer games.
#12 Posted 08 March 2019 - 08:13 AM
#14 Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:51 AM
There are some different solutions, and its up to you to decide
-As Forge pointed, get the same mobo model should work just fine, and personally i think is the most neat and safer solution.
-Maybe is just something we can't notice, a little bit of pro assistance will solve the problem spending something like 20$
-You can always mount the HDD on another PC and set it as Secondary HDD, so that you can access it and backup your most important files from there.
-The last solution that i can suggest is to try a heatgun reflow on the mobo, use this as last resource, ask someone that has some experience on this, if done correctly the mobo should work again for a while, 3 days, 1 week, 1 month. who knows, you should just have enough time to do a complete HDD backup using some professional tool, if you have one.
MusicallyInspired, on 05 March 2019 - 10:00 PM, said:
I think Acronis True Image with Universal Restore feature should not have any problem about this, so that you can restore your data wherever you want.
4-5 year ago I was able to recover my old 7770HD reflowing it, it worked for about 2 months, no bad.
#15 Posted 08 March 2019 - 12:24 PM
#16 Posted 08 March 2019 - 08:11 PM
Buy a laptop bottom with a Windows 7 key on it. Use the Windows 7 key to activate 10 during the initial setup (only time you can activate it, but you CAN use Win 7 to upgrade your Home edition later).
Very few of these keys were ever used to activate Windows 10. Everyone did the online upgrade for 10 a while back.
I have done this on TONS of computers. Some early Win8 systems don't have the key correctly stored in the BIOS, and need an entirely new key to install 10. Or maybe someone comes in with a Windows 7 system with a damaged key. No point in extracting the key from the OS since it's a VLK, not the key used on the bottom, can't activate it, gotta replace it.
Not one has failed to activate.
Trick is to find laptop models with cheap bottom covers that have the key behind the battery, they're always intact. I whip out a heat gun, remove them, then secure them to the new system with clear tape.
Buy whatever motherboard you want now...In all honesty though, a Ryzen 3 will whip that chip's ass. It'll also beat my 4.5GHz 25-2500k on most benchmarks, including gaming.
Sandy/Ivy Bridge lack AVX2 instructions. You're talking about an FPU that is now doing much less per clock cycle, so they are at a major performance disadvantage compared to newer chips. The integer unit is decent (not great) but the FPU is sorely lacking now.
Now that companies have optimized for AVX2, on some benchmarks my chip is ALMOST as fast as an i5-4690k, which is a full one gigahertz slower.
https://www.ebay.com...rsAAOSwo4pYk09U
This post has been edited by Person of Color: 08 March 2019 - 08:19 PM
#17 Posted 09 March 2019 - 01:26 AM
Btw. I had an issue like you have now with my old i7-2600k system but I got lucky and only one of the memory sticks went to shit instead of the mobo. The thing is that a 2011 build is old as balls and parts these days usually don't have the build quality they had back in the day so you can expect that stuff will just break on you at this point. It's insane but interestingly most of the computers I bought after 2008 all had stupid issues like this past the warranty while my 1998 and 1995 (!) PCs still work.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 09 March 2019 - 01:32 AM
#18 Posted 09 March 2019 - 12:07 PM
And yeah. I have a 486 that's just fine. And a Pentium 1st gen MMX that works just fine.
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 09 March 2019 - 12:08 PM
#19 Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:07 AM
Have you tried stripping the PC down & doing a clean / rebuild?
#20 Posted 26 March 2019 - 02:29 PM
I had unplugged everything, took everything out and put/plugged it all back in, however. Same result.
#21 Posted 27 March 2019 - 10:51 AM
This post has been edited by High Treason: 27 March 2019 - 10:51 AM
#22 Posted 27 March 2019 - 05:56 PM
#23 Posted 01 April 2019 - 09:03 AM
High Treason, on 27 March 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:
I don't know what kind of liquid comes out of High Treason's taps but if it isn't 99% Isopropyl Alcohol you don't put it under the tap. Tap water will definitely destroy your motherboard. There are too many minerals in tap water, when it dries it will just short something out.
Upon searching the net with your motherboard model, this problem you mentioned about a 98 showing during POST in the bottom right hand corner seems to be a common theme with this particular board. Try cold booting PC without any mouse/keyboard or joystick connected. The error I keep reading about relates to input devices causing the 98 error. Does this motherboard have a Single PS/2 port? Perhaps the fuse for the PS/2 Port has blown or malfunctioned. Even if these ports aren't being used this fuse can still fail causing this type of an error. Would also explain why you can still use your computer when your system boots normally and on older motherboards this should be a surface mounted fuse near to the PS/2 port making it a serviceable component.
Additional things to do :
Ideally, when faced with what appears to be a motherboard problem you're best removing the Motherboard from the case and setting it on some cardboard to troubleshoot the problem.
Make sure the CPU Heatsink and fan are making proper contact with the CPU or re-seat the CPU and remove first the old heat sink compound. When reapplying new thermal paste it should not be slopped on it just takes a thin layer applied over the surface. With minimal hardware connected, disconnect all main hard-drive/optical drives/USB devices except the VGA monitor connect. In fact, remove all RAM and POST to see if the POST code changes to recognize no Memory is connected. This will test the logic of the board.
Here is the AMI BIOS code manual to help identify any POST codes you may be receiving.
ftp://ftp.ts.fujitsu...s_Codes_PUB.pdf
If you are able to get it to POST one more time try disabling any onboard devices like NIC\Soundcard\Parallel port\Serial Port\ Etc.. Change the boot order so that the intended bootable drive is second in the list after removable media. Disable the PS/2 Port if that is a visible option.
I'm a fan of Asus motherboards.
This post has been edited by Paul B: 01 April 2019 - 10:24 AM
#24 Posted 01 April 2019 - 03:33 PM
This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 01 April 2019 - 03:33 PM
#25 Posted 01 April 2019 - 07:01 PM
MusicallyInspired, on 01 April 2019 - 03:33 PM, said:
If you are unable to identify the fuse you're best taking your motherboard to an electronic's repair shop. Make sure they don't bridge the fuse, they should replace it if found to be faulty. The fuse can be found in the 5V line to the PS/2 port which sort of looks like a little resistor or capacitor but the symbol/part no. is silk screened next to it which will either have a tilde (~) mark or the letter F (for fuse) followed by a number (often F1) - there can be both the ~ and F#. It shouldn't cost much to repair. You'll probably want to confirm if this fuse is a Polyfuse (self resetting fuse) found in newer boards and are reset after a reboot or when they cool off.
If you want take a close up picture of your actual motherboard and post it so I can look at it, there may be leaky caps on the board which may have resulted in this problem.
This post has been edited by Paul B: 01 April 2019 - 07:58 PM
#26 Posted 10 April 2019 - 11:26 AM
https://www.youtube....h?v=V6iXOrZPWG4
The end result;
https://youtu.be/JCZirb1J8qo?t=285
And I'm not the only one who does it that way, so long as you're careful to make sure nothing is left under dense SMD parts it should be fine, I tend to blow any remaining water out of those just to be sure. Furthermore, what do you think they do at the factory? Making large PCBs is a dusty process, followed by flux and glue going all over the place, do you think the board makers have some secret magic process to make it all shiny and clean ready for when you open the box? No, they use a PCB cleaning machine, or so they call it, but to all intents and purposes it's just a large dishwasher with 'PCB Cleaning Machine' written on it, you'll be able to find these in your favorite search engine. Occasionally you might even get a board (SuperMicro ones used to be prone to it) with stickers left on referring to this process, a fair number of P6DGU boards were shipped with such a sticker still over their overheat buzzer.
Naturally I do understand the concern though, it does run counter to everything we're told about electricity to introduce water and there are definitely risks involved. Nonetheless, I've actually seen a few previously dead components come back to life after a good wash, as if a piece of dust underneath something was conductive enough to prevent it from running.
This post has been edited by High Treason: 10 April 2019 - 11:57 AM
#27 Posted 24 April 2019 - 02:28 PM
High Treason, on 10 April 2019 - 11:26 AM, said:
https://www.youtube....h?v=V6iXOrZPWG4
The end result;
https://youtu.be/JCZirb1J8qo?t=285
And I'm not the only one who does it that way, so long as you're careful to make sure nothing is left under dense SMD parts it should be fine, I tend to blow any remaining water out of those just to be sure. Furthermore, what do you think they do at the factory? Making large PCBs is a dusty process, followed by flux and glue going all over the place, do you think the board makers have some secret magic process to make it all shiny and clean ready for when you open the box? No, they use a PCB cleaning machine, or so they call it, but to all intents and purposes it's just a large dishwasher with 'PCB Cleaning Machine' written on it, you'll be able to find these in your favorite search engine. Occasionally you might even get a board (SuperMicro ones used to be prone to it) with stickers left on referring to this process, a fair number of P6DGU boards were shipped with such a sticker still over their overheat buzzer.
Naturally I do understand the concern though, it does run counter to everything we're told about electricity to introduce water and there are definitely risks involved. Nonetheless, I've actually seen a few previously dead components come back to life after a good wash, as if a piece of dust underneath something was conductive enough to prevent it from running.
I wouldn't recommend just anyone cleaning a motherboard as you suggested as it requires more experience than the average person has. I am also willing to bet his motherboard is no where near as dirty as the system you were cleaning and the chances of it being a dust accumulation problem would be like 1 and a billion. He might just have better luck finding the exact same board for sale on Ebay and replacing it rather than trying to fix it. However, typically when these type of problems surface it's a good indicator to just move on and upgrade for most people it's not worth the time or the effort.
You sir are the only person I know of that would spend time refurbishing a 486SX. It would probably work more in your favor to melt it down and extract the gold.
This post has been edited by Paul B: 24 April 2019 - 02:33 PM
#28 Posted 28 April 2019 - 06:40 PM
There are a good number of people who would spend time on a 486SX, given the FPU of the DX is rarely if ever used by anything. This particular one was only fixed for demonstration purposes, to explain the harsh reality of owning a computer in that time generally involving lower spec systems, before it retired and the chassis was used for a very particular 386DX/387 setup instead. Besides, I already have a 486SX anyway which can run rings around a good few DX2-66 machines, in fact it was the best performing single-clock SX known in the world a few years ago, but may have been beaten since. I say this largely to point out that there exists a sizable community out there who still play with these things, though unfortunately a large chunk of it is full of snowflakes and OEMfags who hoard Packard Bells and shit.
#29 Posted 29 April 2019 - 04:52 AM
This post has been edited by Paul B: 29 April 2019 - 05:30 AM