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Duke Being Put To Pasture?

User is online   Never Forgotten 

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#31

View PostZaxx, on 01 February 2019 - 07:56 PM, said:

Why? What is it that you don't like?


Duke should keep his red tank top, the other post suggested a red t-shirt... not too big a deal, but he's always worn a tank top. Duke doesn't have to have a character arc for it to work, make him a one-lining badass, instead of the douche he was in DNF. I also hate the 'personal struggle' trope that bogs down so many movies and games lately. It's cheap and overused. Duke doesn't have to have something like that motivate him, the aliens are fucking up his good time, that should be his motivation. Now I actually don't mind the hub idea, as I've mentioned it before. As much as I hate to say it... I agree there needs to be a recast. Jon is too old to portray the character correctly now, and we don't need a 40's-50's Duke.

The main thing is Duke isn't the type of character to expand upon too much. Look at Dutch from Predator, we get to know enough about him to understand who he is, and what kind of character he is, but we aren't bogged down by unnecessary exposition/personal struggle arcs. Things can be in it that expand on Duke's character like Graves, with Graves Duke's military background and early life could be explored, make Graves an old family friend, maybe even father figure to Duke. Maybe add Bombshell as someone Duke used to be on a unit with, there could be some back-and-forth with them. There are opportunities to do it, without forcing in a personal struggle story. I'm rambling now, in short Duke's story should be something along the lines of: They spilled his bear, took his babes, and worst of all they destroyed his motorcycle/muscle car. That would be motivation enough for Duke, in my opinion

I'm not trying to say everyone's idea sucks but my own, I've heard/seen plenty of great ones, but this one just didn't feel like Duke to me, mostly. Looking back I can see some thing I overlooked in my haste, like the hub, recasting Duke is Jon can't pull of the younger Duke, as well as the game taking place in L.A. Now with all this being said, I did enjoy seeing someone else's take on Duke, it's always refreshing to see what someone else could bring to the table, should they have the chance. Also, sadly enough, I know this would be better than what Gearbox would shit out... If I ever come off as rude with my opinions about Duke, I apologize, I've been a hug Duke fan for most of my life, being introduced around 1999 when I was only three/four, and Duke had a lasting impact on me. The character is very dear to me, and I hope we someday get to see him back on his throne. :dukeaffirmative:

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#32

@Zaxx, yuck.

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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#33

Topper Dan:

Sure, haters gonna hate but overall I think the gameplay matters the most when it comes to getting old fans on board: if you feel like you're playing a Duke game then you'll be more receptive to even more drastic changes. That's why I think that a good reboot should play a lot like Duke 3D and thematically resemble that game to some extent (a sort of grounded setting with horror elements spiced up with humour) but once the devs got that down they'd have a lot of freedom in trying different stuff. Duke could work wonderfully as the younger version of Hallenback from The Last Boy Scout (that's basically what I had in mind).

And really at this point the franchise is almost 30 years old so if it wants to live on then change is even expected. Every single iconic character changes with time in order to stay relevant, be it characters like James Bond, Batman or heroes you know from videogames like Doomguy or BJ Blazkowicz. If done well those changes make a character's history richer and the past never really disappears (for example if you look at a Daniel Craig Bond movie you still see hints of Sean Connery in that performance) and that's why I'd even support recasting Duke's voice if it's needed (the influence of JSJ will never really go away even if a different guy is doing the voice without imitating JSJ).

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 01 February 2019 - 10:15 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

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#34

Serious Sam didn't change.

Just sayin'.

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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#35

View PostNever Forgotten, on 01 February 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

Jon is too old to portray the character correctly now, and we don't need a 40's-50's Duke.

Yeah, that's why it occured to me too really: Jon is 58 years old now so he wouldn't work well in a new game I guess.

As for the personal struggle and all: I know, it's a trope really but keep in mind that it's Duke who's having the personal struggle so chances are he'd handle it differently. The idea is not that he should be miserable but that the story should have higher stakes than "fuck, aliens are ruining my fun". What I had in mind was something like he was in the army but he got court martialled, fired (for some shit like beating up a general or something = stuff that says that he doesn't like authority figures so he couldn't fit in really) and he's taking that badly. When the shit hits the fan he can prove himself and show it to the army guys that his ways are more effective.
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#36

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 01 February 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

Serious Sam didn't change.

Just sayin'.

Apart from turning into a Saturday morning cartoon for Sam 2 and then a cursing, slightly more grounded version of himself that's part of the military in Sam 3? :D

Posted Image
Posted Image
Same guy, no change, you're right.

After SS2 Croteam did exactly what Gearbox should have done after DNF: they took away all the crazy shit from SS2 and they made a game that played like the first one but also looked a lot more realistic because Sam had to get his balls back. And he did.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 01 February 2019 - 10:45 PM

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#37

View PostZaxx, on 01 February 2019 - 10:34 PM, said:

Yeah, that's why it occured to me too really: Jon is 58 years old now so he wouldn't work well in a new game I guess.

As for the personal struggle and all: I know, it's a trope really but keep in mind that it's Duke who's having the personal struggle so chances are he'd handle it differently. The idea is not that he should be miserable but that the story should have higher stakes than "fuck, aliens are ruining my fun". What I had in mind was something like he was in the army but he got court martialled, fired (for some shit like beating up a general or something = stuff that says that he doesn't like authority figures so he couldn't fit in really) and he's taking that badly. When the shit hits the fan he can prove himself and show it to the army guys that his ways are more effective.


Okay, now that's not too bad. The way it registered in my head when I saw personal struggle was something along the lines of: Duke feels he's wasting his life away on booze and women, and wants a purpose in life, then finds himself when the aliens invade and he's forced to take action.

I actually like the idea of him being Court Martialled, fits with his character.

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#38

Yep but you're not exactly wrong with the "purpose in life" part: they way I see it Duke would want to join the army because he wants to kick ass so when he's fired he feels like shit... but then enforcers and pig cops turn up and it's party time. :D
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#39

His fundamental character didn't change. And when they went off the rails they came back on track. Which is what they need to do after the off-rails DNF.

But they won't.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 01 February 2019 - 11:03 PM

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#40

View PostZaxx, on 01 February 2019 - 10:49 PM, said:

Yep but you're not exactly wrong with the "purpose in life" part: they way I see it Duke would want to join the army because he wants to kick ass so when he's fired he feels like shit... but then enforcers and pig cops turn up and it's party time. :D


Eh, yeah, but I was worried you meant a step further by having him a miserable, tired of life, kind of character. That's what bothers me. I think I've been ruined by reading too many concepts for Duke where the people say: 'We need to take Duke out of the 90's, and make him a tragic character.'

Speaking of which, that's the term I've been trying to think of. I don't want Duke to fall into the tragic character trope, that's what really gets old.

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#41

View PostNever Forgotten, on 31 January 2019 - 11:04 PM, said:

Duke could shake things up, cause controversy (which could improve profit.)

If that were the primary motivation behind the new Duke game, I'd rather it never happened.

You can't measure a game by its selling potential, despite what the industry might want you to think.

Duke Nukem 3D was awesome back in 1996 because it was new and exciting in so many ways. But also it had a very vast modding and playing potential that immediately unfolded, and ensured its long-standing popularity. Duke3D didn't succeed simply because it had some cool gimmick features that made masses of uncritical players want to buy it.

I also don't believe that Duke's character has anything to do with his popularity anymore. Duke was appropriate in the mid-90 because he's the embodiment of that time's popular tropes. Now he's dear to us because of the fond memories and the good game(s) in which he stars. All the talk of how he's allegedly "politically incorrect" and "controversial" is the reflection of the modern Zeitgeist that has nothing to do with Duke's inherent character. It's almost certain that these mores will change some 10-15 years into the future and Duke will be viewed differently. But it doesn't mean you can't appreciate him for what he is, originally.

I think the more important and interesting question would be, what would the game really be if we wanted to directly continue the tradition of 1996, gameplay-wise?


This post has been edited by MrFlibble: 02 February 2019 - 12:38 AM

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#42

View PostMrFlibble, on 02 February 2019 - 12:35 AM, said:

If that were the primary motivation behind the new Duke game, I'd rather it never happened.

It's a factor though, especially nowadays when a lot of games are expected to be politically correct. Duke purposely not being that is one of the things that could make him relevant in today's market.
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#43

View PostMrFlibble, on 02 February 2019 - 12:35 AM, said:

If that were the primary motivation behind the new Duke game, I'd rather it never happened.

You can't measure a game by its selling potential, despite what the industry might want you to think.



What I meant by that is the fact that Duke hasn't been made, movie or game, because no one sees a profit since it's not something people talk about. That's the sad fact, but what they don't realize is that if they put the effort into make a solid game, it'd be a profit, simply because Duke's name does mean something, but no one talks about it because there's nothing new. Eight years is a long time to go without any kind of news, especially for a franchise that already spent nine years (MP to Forever) without seeing a release. When it comes to Gearbox, it's all about the profit, even if they manage to make a solid game, it won't be without their eyes on profit. If they make a solid Duke game, it would attract immediate attention from Duke fans. If it's as good as it should be, then positive word of mouth spreads, inviting new players. Plus if controversy does arrive, that would attract new players too (Think of how SJWs reacted to one line Doom Eternal.) Thus it should be a no brainer for Gearbox to make it. Profit shouldn't be the mindset for Duke, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about. No one wants to take a chance anymore, the sad fact is that Duke is one worth investing in because, given the game is actually good, it'd be a good seller. Maybe not a huge success, but enough that Gearbox could realize the potential, and make another Duke game, hopefully just as good (or better), and maybe... just maybe the franchise could come back to its full potential.

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#44

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 01 February 2019 - 11:02 PM, said:

His fundamental character didn't change. And when they went off the rails they came back on track. Which is what they need to do after the off-rails DNF.

I get what you're saying but SS2 had a bit more drastic effect on the franchise: SS2 is the reason why both SS3 and SS4 are prequels to the first game instead of being sequels to SS2 (hell, SS4 will be the prequel to SS3 so it's the prequel of the prequel :D). Croteam basically disowned that game, they publicly stated that it was a mistake, that it turned out bad because 2K Games had too much of an effect on development and the plan is to fully remake it into a new game that will erase the original version from existence.

Now compare that to Randy "it's a 7 out of 10 game" Pitchford and you'll see how fucked we are. :D In case of Duke I think a reboot is necessary for the same reason why Croteam wants to remake SS2: DNF fucked up so bad that the original "universe" is done for, you can't make a sequel to that... but instead of disowning DNF Randy is working on a DNF collection because that's what we need. Yay, let's remaster the game that killed Duke for PS4 and Xbox One too!

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 02 February 2019 - 01:10 AM

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#45

A reboot to the Duke3D years... Great !

But a reboot of the character ? I dunno. Duke Nukem is a pretty simple, yet effective character reminiscent of the 80s and early 90s action stars. He's tough, mean, grumpy, likes to kill alien scums and likes beautiful women while telling some jokes and oneliners. That's it.

What DNF did totally wrong, in my opinion, is the the emphasis on sex... Sure, there was some nudity in Duke Nukem 3D, but it was only featured in a handful of levels... Of the 39 levels only 3 (!) actually featured explicit adult content (Hollywood Holocaust, Red Light District and XXX stacy)...

What Duke 3D did so well, was the excellent gunplay, great level design and variety with a character that is a fun, hard as nails, wise-cracking son of a bitch. It's like Doom but with a character that is a mix of Ash Williams, Dutch (Predator) and Snake Plissken.

This post has been edited by axl: 02 February 2019 - 03:17 AM

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#46

View Postaxl, on 02 February 2019 - 03:14 AM, said:

But a reboot of the character ? I dunno. Duke Nukem is a pretty simple, yet effective character reminiscent of the 80s and early 90s action stars. He's tough, mean, grumpy, likes to kill alien scums and likes beautiful women while telling some jokes and oneliners. That's it.

I dunno, I feel like I need more than that now. One of my issues with DNF was that Duke felt awkward as hell when interacting with other characters because all he did was tell one-liners and his personality was not fleshed out at all.

"Duke, we got your green power armor here ready to go!"
"PHower armor is for pHussies UHHH!"
"Umm, well okay then."

He felt retarded at trying so hard to be badass and funny. There should be parts in a modern Duke game where the guy is, you know, just talking, discussing strategies against the aliens or something like that, argue with General Graves, anything, really. Rebooting the character shouldn't be that big of a deal though: the same Duke, just with a bit of a deeper character.

Edit: And as for the voice actor: again, wishing a change in voice actor is coming from DNF for me. I felt like I'm playing as a 50 year old dude in DNF and the game did nothing to even acknowledge that so it was awkward. Who knows, maybe it was just the bad writing but I'm honestly curious to see what a new voice actor could do with Duke. For example Steve Blum would be interesting (interestingly enough he's the same age as JSJ :D):


This post has been edited by Zaxx: 02 February 2019 - 03:42 AM

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#47

View PostZaxx, on 02 February 2019 - 12:47 AM, said:

Duke purposely not being that is one of the things that could make him relevant in today's market.

This is what I find really appalling, that the character is being measured by potential sales.

There's no denying that video games are a product where marketing plays an even more important role than anywhere else. Spin it the right way, and the audience will buy anything. But I think that we're degrading the artistic value of video games if we, the players, subscribe to only this view, or put it forward as the only one that is important.

View PostNever Forgotten, on 02 February 2019 - 12:54 AM, said:

What I meant by that is the fact that Duke hasn't been made, movie or game, because no one sees a profit since it's not something people talk about. That's the sad fact, but what they don't realize is that if they put the effort into make a solid game, it'd be a profit, simply because Duke's name does mean something, but no one talks about it because there's nothing new.

I believe that we as players should never ever put on the marketing mindset when in any way approaching the games we play and love. It's a sad fact that the future of the IP is decided by people who do measure its value by its profitability, but I find it deplorable that discussions in a fan forum degrade to a similar form of discourse.

It's not money that makes Duke more than just a number of one-liners and a set of low-resolution, 8-bit images. There was creative effort when he was being made, and that resonated with the audience, giving life to the character. Whatever "IP holders" decide to do with the "franchise", it's ultimately us who make Duke alive, no matter what.

I don't envy any video game or video game character if a huge number of players bought this game on the hype wave and never played it, even if the publisher received a generous profit from this.

If the community continues to produce excellent new content Duke will never be "put to pasture".

Sorry if this is all to idealistic.
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#48

View PostTrooper Dan, on 01 February 2019 - 08:05 PM, said:

Duke's in a tough spot for sure, because almost any changes made to the character or his world will be interpreted as done to appease SJWs. To be fair, there would be tremendous pressure to do just that, so it's not without reason that people are concerned about it happening. Meanwhile, the haters are gonna hate regardless, so there's no point in trying to please them.



Just as Parzival said in Ready Player One : "A fanboy know how to recognize a hater !"

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 02 February 2019 - 08:55 AM

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#49

View PostMrFlibble, on 02 February 2019 - 05:36 AM, said:

I believe that we as players should never ever put on the marketing mindset when in any way approaching the games we play and love. It's a sad fact that the future of the IP is decided by people who do measure its value by its profitability, but I find it deplorable that discussions in a fan forum degrade to a similar form of discourse.
......
If the community continues to produce excellent new content Duke will never be "put to pasture".


Of course us players should never put on the marketing mindset when approaching the game we love, but the cold hard fact is that Gearbox does. So in the context of the conversation, yes if Duke is to come back with new, I mean completely new, content then there has to be a profit seen. I'd love a Duke game made with just passion and fans in mind, and not money, but that just won't happen while it's in Gearbox's hands. What I'm trying to point out is the fact that Randy is blind to the fact Duke would make money. The audience that he's probably afraid of offending doesn't play games, and the controversy Duke might stir up would only draw more real gamers to the game. Put the game itself in the hands of one who cares, and Gearbox could let them make the game, release it, and profit off of it, meanwhile us Duke fans would get to enjoy a nice 100% Duke game. Everyone wins. Sure, there's a chance it could bomb, but at the very least there'd be some form of profit.

Duke is always going to be around as long as we the fans keep him around, but the fact of the matter is that no new games can be made without Gearbox's say-so. And that ain't gonna happen without some guaranteed cash. Foreseeable profit = new Duke game. Sure Randy might one day say 'Fuck it, if it bombs it bombs, I'm making Duke Nukem.' But I highly doubt it. Money is his motive, and there's money to be made with Duke, he just needs to OPEN HIS EYES and see it.

Side note on the chance Randy reads this: Put in the effort to make a quality Duke Nukem game, not some half-assed re-release/throwing him into another game's remaster. An actual game, with Duke's attitude, big guns, babes, and alien dismemberment. Put in the effort and you will be repaid, I can guarantee everyone here would buy a new Duke game if an effort was made, and with Doom's recent success there's a whole list of newcomers who would grab it because it might look like Doom. Please, I think I speak for everyone when I say: Give us the real Duke back!

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#50

View PostMrFlibble, on 02 February 2019 - 05:36 AM, said:

This is what I find really appalling, that the character is being measured by potential sales.

There's no denying that video games are a product where marketing plays an even more important role than anywhere else. Spin it the right way, and the audience will buy anything. But I think that we're degrading the artistic value of video games if we, the players, subscribe to only this view, or put it forward as the only one that is important.

While I agree with this somewhat overall I think that "sales potential" was always part of Duke since Duke 3D: remember, Duke 3D was the game a lot of kids started playing because they heard stuff like "duuude, you can tip strippers". That "edginess" was part of the charm and it sure helped to move a lot of copies.
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#51

View PostNever Forgotten, on 02 February 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

yes if Duke is to come back with new, I mean completely new, content then there has to be a profit seen.

That's probably where our standpoints differ then probably, because to me, Alien Armageddon and other community projects are perfectly "completely new content".

View PostNever Forgotten, on 02 February 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

I'd love a Duke game made with just passion and fans in mind, and not money, but that just won't happen while it's in Gearbox's hands. What I'm trying to point out is the fact that Randy is blind to the fact Duke would make money.

View PostNever Forgotten, on 02 February 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

Foreseeable profit = new Duke game.

View PostNever Forgotten, on 02 February 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

Side note on the chance Randy reads this: Put in the effort to make a quality Duke Nukem game, not some half-assed re-release/throwing him into another game's remaster. An actual game, with Duke's attitude, big guns, babes, and alien dismemberment. Put in the effort and you will be repaid, I can guarantee everyone here would buy a new Duke game if an effort was made, and with Doom's recent success there's a whole list of newcomers who would grab it because it might look like Doom. Please, I think I speak for everyone when I say: Give us the real Duke back!

I'm completely unfamiliar with Mr. Pitchford to feel qualified even for speculative judgement on these matters, but I'm generally highly sceptical that any amount of begging on the part of the community and/or pointing out that if the proposed game is made to be such and such it will be extremely profitable, will result in any decision on the part of the copyright holders.

That is in part because of the corporate mindset we've been talking about. Who do you think the decision makers will listen to (provided they even hear your requests): some forum users hidden behind invented nicknames, or industry "experts" who provide paid market intelligence and forecasts? Big game companies are almost certainly guided by market analysts, whether in-house or third-party, and what's more they won't simply invest resources in any project that promises to be profitable. Preferably, you need some solid projections of how much the revenue will be, measured against production, marketing and sales costs as well as the overall company performance, its market share, potential competition etc. etc.

A project this big like a new Duke game (it has to be big, right? considering the character's popularity) would probably also need to be approved by the board of directors or at least some people in the senior management, it can't be a one-person decision, if only because of the number of people who will be eventually involved. Can you imagine a company CEO making a presentation to the board of directors or the shareholders and stating that the proposed game is expected to be profitable because some forum users said so?

Again, this is what conventional wisdom suggests, as I'm not even remotely aware of the inner workings of Gearbox Software. But it does seem a likely scenario to me.

I'm not even talking about how demeaning it is, in my opinion, both to us as fans and to Duke as a character to stoop down to the "profit talk" level and beg for the franchise to be revived based on these alleged profits, all the while making unflattering remarks about Randy Pitchford and his business practices. What is expected to be achieved by that?

View PostZaxx, on 02 February 2019 - 11:22 PM, said:

While I agree with this somewhat overall I think that "sales potential" was always part of Duke since Duke 3D: remember, Duke 3D was the game a lot of kids started playing because they heard stuff like "duuude, you can tip strippers". That "edginess" was part of the charm and it sure helped to move a lot of copies.

Won't argue with that for sure! But it was only one of the factors, and also indeed times were different. Duke3D was advanced in so many other ways than just being "controversial", and after all, let's be honest here: the people who created the game were genuinely "into" making an awesome title they themselves would enjoy playing, based on their own playing experience with existing games.

I'm afraid this kind of developer attitude just doesn't work with big game dev companies these days, and indeed perhaps it can't, considering that back then, teams like Apogee/3DR and id were real pioneers of the industry while today the big players mostly exploit (no pejorative sense here) what others have explored before them.

It is also quite possible that no other Duke Nukem game, if it ever happens, will be as groundbreaking as Duke3D, simply because of the can't step into the same river twice logic. My personal interest here is: what if the next Duke game after 3D were made on the Quake engine for example? No big company will probably try to explore that, but the community could via mods. Yesterday I watched a video of Hollywood Holocaust Rethinked, now that's a very interesting experiment. I'd be interested in more community content exploring that direction for sure!
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User is offline   ReaperAA 

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#52

View PostMrFlibble, on 03 February 2019 - 02:17 AM, said:

Who do you think the decision makers will listen to (provided they even hear your requests): some forum users hidden behind invented nicknames, or industry "experts" who provide paid market intelligence and forecasts? Big game companies are almost certainly guided by market analysts, whether in-house or third-party, and what's more they won't simply invest resources in any project that promises to be profitable. Preferably, you need some solid projections of how much the revenue will be, measured against production, marketing and sales costs as well as the overall company performance, its market share, potential competition etc. etc.

A project this big like a new Duke game (it has to be big, right? considering the character's popularity) would probably also need to be approved by the board of directors or at least some people in the senior management, it can't be a one-person decision, if only because of the number of people who will be eventually involved. Can you imagine a company CEO making a presentation to the board of directors or the shareholders and stating that the proposed game is expected to be profitable because some forum users said so?


Pretty much explains why we (forum users/ passionate fans) can never have something we want.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#53

View PostMrFlibble, on 03 February 2019 - 02:17 AM, said:

I'm afraid this kind of developer attitude just doesn't work with big game dev companies these days, and indeed perhaps it can't, considering that back then, teams like Apogee/3DR and id were real pioneers of the industry while today the big players mostly exploit (no pejorative sense here) what others have explored before them.

I think that's true when it comes to innovation but if you look at something like Mortal Kombat's fatalities you can see that Netherrealm Studios can walk a fine line between creating really good games and controvery. The newer MK games are amazing, deep fighting games where the mainstream attention created by fatalities is separate from the actual gameplay.

In other cases the developers failed to walk that line, like for example in DNF there is a whole level where you don't get to shoot anything and instead you're searching for condoms for strippers. Duke 3D on the other hand had that fine balance where the controversy did not stand in the way of the "art" so to speak so a better dev team could get back to that place.
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User is offline   Kathy 

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#54

Since when Gearbox became a public corporation? Pitchford can do precisely whatever the fuck he wants. Just like Broussard did.

Windows incompatibility is a feature, not a bug.
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#55

If you look at the history of Gearbox what you'll find is that most of their decisions are driven by financial purposes and that's the case nowadays too. For example I saw one of the podcasts where Randy was talking about Duke with Jon St. John and my impression was that GBX is not making a new Duke game because:

- They don't want to self finance its development so they want to get a publisher.
- They don't think that Duke Nukem is viable in today's industry by itself: they want a successful movie to happen first because that could re-establish some of Duke's relevancy.

Basically: they don't want to risk spending a lot of money on a new Duke, instead they do what's financially safe and just work on Borderlands 3. Randy is a business man first and a game developer second.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 03 February 2019 - 05:20 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#56

On a side note here's what I don't get: Randy's obsession with the AAA market even though the obvious low risk move would be to make a new Duke game on a moderate budget. It doesn't have to be flashy, they could just take Unreal Engine 4, a piece of tech they know super well at this point and make a cheap retro shooter with classic Duke gameplay and charm. If done well that would re-establish Duke's reputation and if it sells well they can move up to AAA again even without an AAA publisher.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

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#57

View PostKathy, on 03 February 2019 - 05:03 AM, said:

Since when Gearbox became a public corporation? Pitchford can do precisely whatever the fuck he wants. Just like Broussard did.

As I said above my post on corporate decisions was based on "conventional wisdom", not facts which I am not privy to (nor am I interested in). Sorry if this was a massive miss, never intended to mislead anyone.

Also the fact that they're not a public company doesn't mean they don't have a development and growth strategy, and a product pipeline. It's hard to conceive that a large and successful industry player (which I'm assuming Gearbox is) would dance to the whims of a fan community of one of several franchises that it happens to own.

My main point however is that it isn't becoming of fans to beg the copyright holders to do so and so with the franchise. The fans are entitled to Duke's character in a way no copyright law can provide for. Thankfully there's also a huge leeway for creativity with what we have. But if there's no established interaction between Gearbox and the community that could potentially steer franchise development in the "right" direction, random posts and rants are useless IMO.

View PostZaxx, on 03 February 2019 - 05:27 AM, said:

On a side note here's what I don't get: Randy's obsession with the AAA market even though the obvious low risk move would be to make a new Duke game on a moderate budget.

Does Randy/Gearbox want to make a new Duke game though?

There was a comparison drawn with Serious Sam earlier in this thread, but Serious Sam is Croteam's flagship character/product. So was Duke to 3D Realms but not to Gerabox as far as I understand.

View PostZaxx, on 03 February 2019 - 05:19 AM, said:

Basically: they don't want to risk spending a lot of money on a new Duke, instead they do what's financially safe and just work on Borderlands 3.

Actually that makes perfect sense from the business standpoint. For one, at this moment they might not have the resources needed for the development of even your "obvious low risk move". Do you know the company's balance? If they need to take out a loan to finance this project (even if low budget it won't be done for free), is it a good time to do so in the current financial climate? Will they be able to get enough revenue out of the result to make it in the positive digits? The "risk" here is not only about sales or "profit" being not as good as expected, there's a lot more variables in the equation that affect company performance.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

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#58

I'm sure they are not in a position to develop any kind of Duke game now: they had no big releases in a while, Duke World Tour was a flop, Bulletstorm Full Clip certainly was a flop too and We Happy Few got received badly too (basically their whole Gearbox Publishing initiative is a giant failure). If Borderlands 3 does well maybe there will be some light at the end of the tunnel.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 03 February 2019 - 08:41 AM

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User is offline   hismasterplan 

  • 105

#59

Here's a thought, DNF took 13 years after announcement (1998-2011). Four years from now will be 12-13 years from DNF to Duke 5, assuming it comes out 2023/2024.

In a sense, Duke 5 is DNF all over again but with no hype and no announcement which is the only positive side in all this because expectations are low. The lack of direction, desire for perfectionism, lack of results is eerily similar. History doesn't repeat, it rhymes! I'll bet that the ambulance metaphor Randy used to save DNF, will happen again, only this time another developer will save Duke 5 from Gearbox.
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User is offline   gemeaux333 

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#60

That a product have to be profitable (even if not so much profits are made) is the rule, because the alternative would be deficits, and what comes next is obvious : employees being laid of (because employees can't be paid to do nothing, assumingly they can be paid for regular work) at best, and the compagny getting backrupcy at worst, so yes we would always be more happy if a company make profits than the contrary...

If its a financement issue, why not making like more or less indie devs are doing : A kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign ?
This way at least the project is mainly financed by those who have interest in it, and this there is not enough at the end of the campaign, the message is clear...

When it comes to the so called "expert", it is like Sun Tzu said : "Experts are only experts when it comes to commenting whatever is perfectly obvious to anyone" !

When it comes to representation, as Nintendo said : "A petition gathering 100k signatures doesn't mean there will be 100k copies sold for this game"

P.S : Duke Nukem Forever was profitable beyond expectations, as 2K Games attested it !

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 03 February 2019 - 09:35 AM

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