Duke4.net Forums: Duke Being Put To Pasture? - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Hide message Show message
Welcome to the Duke4.net Forums!

Register an account now to get access to all board features. After you've registered and logged in, you'll be able to create topics, post replies, send and receive private messages, disable the viewing of ads and more!

  • 10 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Duke Being Put To Pasture?

User is offline   Toxic34 

  • 13

#1

Latest news from Jon St. John, stating emphatically that there are no new projects of any kind for Duke in the works, not even the proposed movie: https://screenrant.c...-not-happening/

Given how likely this is to be true, this could be a sign that Gearbox no longer considers Duke as a priority, especially with the intense focus to bring Borderlands 3 out at last. Which effectively proves that despite what Randy said back when the IP purchase was announced, it appears Gearbox effectively did buy Duke to complete DNF, and then just move on.

Is Duke being put down to fade away? Is there any way to bring Duke back? Should someone buy Duke from Gearbox's hands?
0

User is offline   gemeaux333 

  • 9

#2

Jon St. John is misinformed, considering he is informed in any way, he will not even be involved in the movie, so how do he know ?

This post has been edited by gemeaux333: 31 January 2019 - 12:31 PM

0

User is offline   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer
  • 3,593

#3

The decision not to develop more Duke games isn't causing him to fade into obscurity, it's an effect of him already doing so. The IP is just more trouble than it's worth for a company that wants a broad appeal. I guess the only possible good news about this is that JSJ is "very sad" about it -- which means he might be willing to cut the fans some sweet deals on VA stints. Of course, if we did have him record some new lines, he would just be doing a generic action character and totally not Duke Nukem *cough* *cough*


View Postgemeaux333, on 31 January 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

Jon St. John is misinformed, considering he is informed in any way, he will not even be involved in the movie, so how do he know ?


He would 100% be used for VA in any new Duke game, so he would definitely know if one was being developed.
0

User is offline   Kathy 

  • 1,244

#4

He probably wouldn't know until it'd be time to record. Plus there'll be NDA for that. Either way, right now doing Duke commercially effective would be too much work for Gearbox. They know it can be huge, but they also know it can't half-assed like they're used to do with this IP.

Windows incompatibility is a feature, not a bug.
1

User is offline   ryche 

  • 2

#5

The only movie that I could see working for Duke is an animated/CGI one. Real life actors just aren't needed in my opinion.
As far as games, I have fond memories of Duke3D and some about DNF so if Gearbox never comes out with a new game, I honestly won't care anymore. It's like Valve and Half-Life. Sure, it's a little disappointing that a sequel wont' come out but I enjoyed my time with the games that were released. Jon can be sad all he wants, I understand. It's his voice that helped give Duke life. I bet he feels like Duke the character is partly his baby in a way and since he's not being tapped to make more it's upsetting him. Honestly though, some of Jon's voice acting for Duke in DNF and the Bulletstorm stuff just didn't seem like it was the same as what he gave for Duke3D.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts. I don't anticipate much from Gearbox anymore after all that has happened with that company and Randy.

?machines have no conscience?
0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,262

#6

Perhaps it's better this way. Today's world can't handle the Duke.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
Latest release: Heretic SC-55 Music Pack (12/12/18)
*new* Buy the Mage's Initiation Original Soundtrack on Bandcamp by me!
Buy the P&C Adventure/RPG game Mage's Initiation on Steam, GOG, and Humble
1

User is offline   Duke Legacy 

  • 1,047

#7

I think it is time for people to let him go let Duke Nukem Rest In Peace.

Duke4 Supporter
2

User is offline   Hank 

  • 2,123

#8

I promised a better image ... for now, it has to do. :)
Posted Image

p.s. let 'him' go. There are millions of other games to play. :P

Ein sarkastischer Deutscher
2

User is online   Never Forgotten 

  • 241

#9

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 31 January 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Perhaps it's better this way. Today's world can't handle the Duke.


Isn't that exactly why we need Duke? Duke could shake things up, cause controversy (which could improve profit.) Duke is exactly what the modern era needs. Something that brings back old school, like Doom, but mixes in Duke's inappropriate lines, over-the-top violence, nudity, and big guns.

Also, I think a lot of people underestimate Duke's popularity, Trooper Dan said

Quote

The decision not to develop more Duke games isn't causing him to fade into obscurity, it's an effect of him already doing so.


But it's not that Duke's fallen into obscurity, it's that Duke's fallen into irrelevancy. A lot of people, especially FPS gamers, know who Duke is. The problem is it's nearly been 10 years since a game was released, so there's nothing to talk about. If I go to a recent video talking about Duke, there are many comments made from people not on these forums saying how they loved Duke 3D, and also saying they need a new Duke game. Given the right game, and marketing for said game, Duke could been a success/profit, maybe not a huge one, but enough to succeed. Duke's still known, he's still a thing, just dormant. Fans are out there. Trust me. Gearbox just needs to realize it.

Who Loves Ya Baby?

Never Forgotten/Focus Gaming
0

User is online   Zaxx 

  • 437

#10

Randy, if you read this please do as I say: SELL THE FUCKING IP TO A FUCKING COMPANY THAT WILL DO SOMETHING WITH IT! Thx.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 01 February 2019 - 01:23 AM

5

User is offline   xMobilemux 

  • 1,139

#11

View Postgemeaux333, on 31 January 2019 - 12:30 PM, said:

Jon St. John is misinformed, considering he is informed in any way, he will not even be involved in the movie, so how do he know ?

He claimed on Facebook that Randy told him about the movie being canned.

As upset as I am about likely not getting another Duke game, I'd rather be able to look at and remember Duke as the awesome character he always was rather than risk Gearbox making me see him in the disgusted way I see Lara Croft and Kratos nowadays.

Posted Image
3

User is online   Zaxx 

  • 437

#12

View PostxMobilemux, on 01 February 2019 - 02:18 AM, said:

As upset as I am about likely not getting another Duke game

I really don't get why honestly. I'm playing the Resident Evil 2 remake now and it's fucking excellent, man: a true survival horror game in gameplay and difficulty and it's selling like hotcakes. After the success of Dark Souls, Doom 2016, Resident Evil 7 and now RE2 it's obvious that hardcore games are back in full force and a new Duke would print money if it's done well. Reboot the whole thing, remake / reimagine Duke 3D, I don't care, now would be the perfect time for Duke to come back.
2

User is offline   ReaperAA 

  • 22

#13

View PostZaxx, on 01 February 2019 - 03:59 AM, said:

I really don't get why honestly. I'm playing the Resident Evil 2 remake now and it's fucking excellent, man: a true survival horror game in gameplay and difficulty and it's selling like hotcakes. After the success of Dark Souls, Doom 2016, Resident Evil 7 and now RE2 it's obvious that hardcore games are back in full force and a new Duke would print money if it's done well. Reboot the whole thing, remake / reimagine Duke 3D, I don't care, now would be the perfect time for Duke to come back.


^This. If DOOM 2016 can succeed, then a well made Duke Nukem game can succeed as well. Gearbox is just too incompetent to make a "Doom 2016" out of Duke.


View PostMusicallyInspired, on 31 January 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Perhaps it's better this way. Today's world can't handle the Duke.


Forgive me as I am not sure if this is "can't handle" is referring to Duke being "too good for this world" or referring to "too politically incorrect". If its the latter, then I disagree. Despite how much the PC culture has grown, there is still a place for Duke to sell. Don't believe me, just look at GTA 5 (among the top 10 the best selling games).
0

User is offline   Duke Legacy 

  • 1,047

#14

I would love to see Gearbox sell it back to the new 3DRealms, I would love to see what they can do with Duke but the chances of that is zero, because gearbox is a dumshit they can't do anything right with the IP.

Duke4 Supporter
0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,262

#15

View PostReaperAA, on 01 February 2019 - 04:24 AM, said:

Forgive me as I am not sure if this is "can't handle" is referring to Duke being "too good for this world" or referring to "too politically incorrect". If its the latter, then I disagree. Despite how much the PC culture has grown, there is still a place for Duke to sell. Don't believe me, just look at GTA 5 (among the top 10 the best selling games).


I don't believe the world can handle him without changing his character entirely. And I don't believe he should change. There's just too much false information about him. I don't think there's anything inherently controversial about Duke and a lot of the criticisms of him being outdated are misinformed and completely off-base. But that's the "outrage first, ask questions later never" world right now and why we can't have nice things. I'd rather preserve what he was than change him around to appease a bunch of idiots who wouldn't play the game anyway. That's the only way it could go down and be successful at the same time. If he wasn't as well known as he has been maybe there'd be a chance. But too many people have the wrong idea about him and what he was and love to attack the big targets the most.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
Latest release: Heretic SC-55 Music Pack (12/12/18)
*new* Buy the Mage's Initiation Original Soundtrack on Bandcamp by me!
Buy the P&C Adventure/RPG game Mage's Initiation on Steam, GOG, and Humble

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 01 February 2019 - 06:27 AM

2

User is offline   Kathy 

  • 1,244

#16

Duke Nukem character is just a cherry on top of a cake. Give me the cake and I might not give a shit that it is without a cherry. But don't make cherry the main ingredient.

Windows incompatibility is a feature, not a bug.
1

User is offline   Ninety-Six 

  • 140

#17

View PostKathy, on 01 February 2019 - 07:04 AM, said:

Duke Nukem character is just a cherry on top of a cake. Give me the cake and I might not give a shit that it is without a cherry. But don't make cherry the main ingredient.


I must respectfully disagree. He's a bit more than just a cherry. The main ingredient? Probably not. But I would still argue it is an essential one. Like it or not, Duke Nukem's character is an integral part of the franchise's identity now. A game can be perfectly mechanically sound and fun, but if Duke isn't Duke Nukem, it's felt. It will be lacking that special something that only Duke can provide. I think a perfect is example is Manhattan Project. Now don't get me wrong, it's a fun game, but at it's core it's not much more than a relatively simple platformer. I think the reason the game is still remembered fondly is because Duke himself made up the difference. There was a solid if basic core, and then Duke added the Nukem charm.


To put it another way, the number of people who play with Duke talk off in any given game is an extreme minority. It's like the violence and gore of the Mortal Kombat series. While without it the games are functionally identical with nothing mechanically lost, you'd be hard-pressed to find people who would say it's better off that way. Because it's just a part of the identity.


I think at that point it can't be considered mere setdressing any longer. MK and Duke both present a somewhat rare circumstance in which something other than pure mechanics form part of the series' core identity. And that's style. Not graphics, not radness, but a unique way it does things.

When it's done wrong, it feels wrong. And when it isn't done at all, then it's just another game, so why even call it Duke Nukem at that point?
4

User is offline   axl 

  • 177

#18

Duke Nukem is a gaming icon and a household name.

It just takes one talented company to bring him back.
0

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 3,262

#19

It won't happen unless they reboot and fundamentally change his character. Not in this day and age.

And if you want the main ingredients "without the cherry", that's what Ion Maiden is for (and it's doing a great job, above and beyond that. I don't want to imply that it's merely a Duke clone because it's not).

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
Latest release: Heretic SC-55 Music Pack (12/12/18)
*new* Buy the Mage's Initiation Original Soundtrack on Bandcamp by me!
Buy the P&C Adventure/RPG game Mage's Initiation on Steam, GOG, and Humble

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 01 February 2019 - 10:14 AM

0

User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor
  • 2,822

#20

Resolution of the graphics, use models or sprites, more of the same or take Duke in a different direction or somewhere in between, amount of weapons able to carry, weapon strength, frequency and type of jokes, maps linear, nonlinear or some of both...the list goes on and on and there are people with varied wants or opinions on all of those things. You're never going to please everybody and some of the very passionate fans will not be happy because they tend to be very picky. Its also human nature that some people will still be disappointed even after getting what they asked for. Maybe they didn't really know what they wanted. So trying to walk that line of pleasing as many as possible isn't something I would like to be responsible for.

Now lets say you are an exec at a multi-million dollar gaming company and have access to all the surveys and other marketing research about the industry and it's fans. Its no longer only about what you want in the new game. There are many other variables that now become part of the decisions made. Where will the industry be 2-3 years from now when we release the new game. Where will the tech be. Is there a certain direction that player's wants and hopes are going that we can cater to. What's this going to cost and what is the expected return.

So, walk a mile in the other guy's shoes and you'll see why things move so slowly or not at all. But I will agree with you guys that the game makers are far from faultless. But that wasn't the main point of my post. My opinion is today its too difficult to please enough fans to make a major Duke game highly profitable. Including an editor might help turn that around. ;)

This post has been edited by Mark: 01 February 2019 - 10:18 AM

0

User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 388

#21

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't care about Duke Nukem. I care about the Build Engine, which along with the Doom Engine became a pool for talent and creativity as far as mapping goes. Mapping is a form of art, and I care about this art, not the playable character. I want Build Engine games like Ion Maiden, Doom wads like Sigil, and couldn't care less about a pretentious Duke Nukem game with shitty 90s style jokes. I also don't care about modern Doom games. The only Duke related thing that would interst me are new levels and episodes for Duke 3D, particularly from the legendary creators. Many things went wrong with World Tour, but the idea of new levels by Blum/Levelord wasn't part of it. Just do the right way next time.
3

User is offline   Kathy 

  • 1,244

#22

View PostNinety-Six, on 01 February 2019 - 07:25 AM, said:

I must respectfully disagree. He's a bit more than just a cherry. The main ingredient? Probably not. But I would still argue it is an essential one. Like it or not, Duke Nukem's character is an integral part of the franchise's identity now. There was a solid if basic core, and then Duke added the Nukem charm.

I feel the more we move away from 1996 the more character becomes the basic core. It probably already is. I just wish for a Duke game that would dial back that. A lot.

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 01 February 2019 - 10:14 AM, said:

It won't happen unless they reboot and fundamentally change his character. Not in this day and age.And if you want the main ingredients "without the cherry", that's what Ion Maiden is for (and it's doing a great job, above and beyond that. I don't want to imply that it's merely a Duke clone because it's not).

And it's no coincidence that you mention it. That's exactly my point. Playing Ion Maiden was filling the void that DNF couldn't. And it was without Duke. Maybe it's just nostalgia, I can't completely deny that, but it was still refreshing to play a Duke game without all the recent baggage of Duke's character.

Windows incompatibility is a feature, not a bug.
1

User is offline   Master O 

  • 81

#23

View PostZaxx, on 01 February 2019 - 01:23 AM, said:

Randy, if you read this please do as I say: SELL THE FUCKING IP TO A FUCKING COMPANY THAT WILL DO SOMETHING WITH IT! Thx.


And re-instate Duke Nukem: Megaton edition on GOG, too! :lol:
0

User is offline   hismasterplan 

  • 93

#24

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 31 January 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Perhaps it's better this way. Today's world can't handle the Duke.


Maybe not DNF/Gearbox Duke, but 1996 Duke is tame compared to what I see on TV and movies or other games these days like GTA. This probably isn't a popular opinion but I would even go for the Duke 64 tone.
0

User is offline   Duke Legacy 

  • 1,047

#25

View PostMaster O, on 01 February 2019 - 02:42 PM, said:

And re-instate Duke Nukem: Megaton edition on GOG, too! :lol:


No

Duke4 Supporter
0

User is offline   conoklast 

  • 28

#26

View PostNancsi, on 01 February 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't care about Duke Nukem. I care about the Build Engine, which along with the Doom Engine became a pool for talent and creativity as far as mapping goes. Mapping is a form of art, and I care about this art, not the playable character.


Nailed it. 100% agree. My 12 year old self loves Duke but as a 34 year old dude what got me back into the duke scene was the creative possibilities of the build engine.
2

User is online   Zaxx 

  • 437

#27

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 01 February 2019 - 10:14 AM, said:

It won't happen unless they reboot and fundamentally change his character. Not in this day and age.

They should change his character though in the sense that you know, Duke should have an actual character with an arc. :D

This may be an unpopular opinion here but when it comes to storytelling the original Duke just has nothing in him, really: he's just a cool guy telling jokes and I want more than that. Ideally I think the franchise should be rebooted and here's how:

- A game that takes place in the early 90s and where Duke is around 30-35 years old. When it comes to games 90s nostalgia is great, just look at the visual design of Black Mesa (or even the RE2 remake for that matter).

- Duke has a serious background and his character design is simplified to its basics so he looks something like this (with his jeans, occasional shades and blonde hair of course):
Posted Image
The idea is that the guy doesn't look like a comic book character, he's just wearing his usual clothes when the shit hits the fan and he gears up gradually as the story progresses.

- Duke is a nobody (and he's not doing roids), he is going through some kind of a personal crisis (he is drinking, hangs out in strip clubs etc.) and when it comes to his character arc the game's story revolves around getting himself out of there... by killing a lot of things of course. :D

- The game takes place in LA / Hollywood during an "apocalyptic" event that turns most of the city into a warzone with a sort of "quarantine area" serving as a hub where Duke can interact with other characters and gear up for missions. This also means that while Duke still has his one-liners a lot of the humour is coming from character interaction.

- The idea of "people are turning into monsters" from the 2001 version of DNF gets explored properly with a bunch of enemies coming from that (on top of your usual pigs of course) AND the game is aiming for a horror atmosphere a lot of the time. The humour is a bit like what you'd get from movies like An American Werewolf in London: actual horror stuff but handled with a lot of levity.

- Apart from the Wolf TNO-style hub area the gameplay is done in the style of Duke 3D: large maps with complex layouts, secrets and backtracking. Keyhunting exists but keycards are toned down (they are only featured where they are appropriate), instead Duke has to progress with his simple inventory (blowing up doors and walls with explosives, finding actual keys instead of cards etc.).

- The whole thing should be done with fan service in mind but not with a blind love for the character or Duke and that comes to everything: for example if Jon St. John can't pull off a younger, slightly more grounded Duke then he should be recast so he doesn't come off as a perverted grandpa like he did in DNF (much like how the voices for the RE2 remake were recast because even though a lot of fans liked the original voice actors they played their parts too cartoony even for a B movie feel).

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 01 February 2019 - 06:08 PM

-2

User is online   Never Forgotten 

  • 241

#28

View PostZaxx, on 01 February 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

They should change his character though in the sense that you know, Duke should have an actual character with an arc. :D

This may be an unpopular opinion here but when it comes to storytelling the original Duke just has nothing in him, really: he's just a cool guy telling jokes and I want more than that. Ideally I think the franchise should be rebooted and here's how:

- A game that takes place in the early 90s and where Duke is around 30-35 years old. When it comes to games 90s nostalgia is great, just look at the visual design of Black Mesa (or even the RE2 remake for that matter).

- Duke has a serious background and his character design is simplified to its basics so he looks something like this (with his jeans, occasional shades and blonde hair of course):
Posted Image
The idea is that the guy doesn't look like a comic book character, he's just wearing his usual clothes when the shit hits the fan and he gears up gradually as the story progresses.

- Duke is a nobody (and he's not doing roids), he is going through some kind of a personal crisis (he is drinking, hangs out in strip clubs etc.) and when it comes to his character arc the game's story revolves around getting himself out of there... by killing a lot of things of course. :D

- The game takes place in LA / Hollywood during an "apocalyptic" event that turns most of the city into a warzone with a sort of "quarantine area" serving as a hub where Duke can interact with other characters and gear up for missions. This also means that while Duke still has his one-liners a lot of the humour is coming from character interaction.

- The idea of "people are turning into monsters" from the 2001 version of DNF gets explored properly with a bunch of enemies coming from that (on top of your usual pigs of course) AND the game is aiming for a horror atmosphere a lot of the time. The humour is a bit like what you'd get from movies like An American Werewolf in London: actual horror stuff but handled with a lot of levity.

- Apart from the Wolf TNO-style hub area the gameplay is done in the style of Duke 3D: large maps with complex layouts, secrets and backtracking. Keyhunting exists but keycards are toned down (they are only featured where they are appropriate), instead Duke has to progress with his simple inventory (blowing up doors and walls with explosives, finding actual keys instead of cards etc.).

- The whole thing should be done with fan service in mind but not with a blind love for the character or Duke and that comes to everything: for example if Jon St. John can't pull off a younger, slightly more grounded Duke then he should be recast so he doesn't come off as a perverted grandpa like he did in DNF (much like how the voices for the RE2 remake were recast because even though a lot of fans liked the original voice actors they played their parts too cartoony even for a B movie feel).


In other words: Here's what not to do with the character, unless you're aiming to alienate nearly every single fan and make a huge bomb.

Who Loves Ya Baby?

Never Forgotten/Focus Gaming
4

User is online   Zaxx 

  • 437

#29

View PostNever Forgotten, on 01 February 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:

In other words: Here's what not to do with the character, unless you're aiming to alienate nearly every single fan and make a huge bomb.

Why? What is it that you don't like?

I'm a huge Duke fan and Duke 3D is one of my favorite games of all time BUT there is something we just have to accept: thanks to DNF the character aged in a really fucking bad way so a new game should do everything in its power to distance itself from that interpretation. In DNF Jon St. John is giving a shitty performance, Duke looks ridiculous and he comes off as a retard most of the time = the character was absolutely destroyed, they pushed him right into a wood chipper.

The solution: go back to the roots of Duke 3D and rethink that concept (lose the douchy attitude that was so frequent in DNF, lose the ridiculous golden guns, the colored gloves, just keep the stuff that's symbolic) so that it pleases old fans and today's audience at the same time (and by today's audience I don't mean SJWs, just sayin' before somebody jumps to that conclusion). Because you know, this sucks ass:
Posted Image

This on the other hand is awesome as fuck if modernized well because it's simple and badass:
Posted Image

But sure, let's keep it dumb and bad because that's how it was back in the day and let's not give Duke the reimagination and hero's journey he deserves.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 01 February 2019 - 08:01 PM

0

User is offline   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer
  • 3,593

#30

Duke's in a tough spot for sure, because almost any changes made to the character or his world will be interpreted as done to appease SJWs. To be fair, there would be tremendous pressure to do just that, so it's not without reason that people are concerned about it happening. Meanwhile, the haters are gonna hate regardless, so there's no point in trying to please them.
3

Share this topic:


  • 10 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks are property of their respective owners. Instead of reading this text, you could be playing Ion Maiden! ;) © 2018 Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options