[Ninety-Six]

fuegerstef, on 01 July 2019 - 02:08 PM, said:

Yes.

I always hated that setup, personally. Makes finer movement impossible because instead of lining yourself up for a jump or trying to maintain distance while circlestrafing, you blast off into the sunset and probably die.


It's not necessarily a bad movement system in of itself; it just needs a better way to trigger it, I feel.

[----]

It is actually really precise if you know the movement. UT2004 not only had dodging, but dodge-jumping, ramp-dodging, wall-dodging (which can be combined with a double jump or a jump-dodge-jump) and more. And it allowed for great movements. And in "close quarters" firefights you can easily use it to outsmart the opponent (which gets even more exciting if both have mastered it).

The downside upside: it kept the (filthy) casuals out of the game.

[Jimmy]

^This 100%

[DisgustedGrunt]

Ninety-Six, on 01 July 2019 - 03:39 PM, said:

I always hated that setup, personally. Makes finer movement impossible because instead of lining yourself up for a jump or trying to maintain distance while circlestrafing, you blast off into the sunset and probably die.


It's not necessarily a bad movement system in of itself; it just needs a better way to trigger it, I feel.

Needs a dedicated dogde/ dash key. Just press that and the directional key. (that's how Dark Souls rolling works, for example)

[----]

Lazy Dog, on 02 July 2019 - 06:50 PM, said:

Needs a dedicated dogde/ dash key. Just press that and the directional key. (that's how Dark Souls rolling works, for example)

Wouldn't work. An additional key while holding down 2 directional keys is cumbersome. It works fine if there is only dodging (and in slow games like the Shadow Warrioir reboot), not if you have stuff like jump-walldodge-jumping and dodging or dodge-jumping is the normal way to move around (imagine to press four keys at the same time contantly for moving).

[Ninety-Six]

But the alternative is never being able to position yourself the way you want quickly, because if you move shorter than you'd like and would like to go a bit further, you pretty much die. That's not a good system either.

[Jimmy]

Not at all. It's not that its "not a good system" but rather that you're not good at the system. I've never had a problem with this because in games like Doom with it's slippery feet or UT with it's tap dodging, I know exactly the mechanics of everything. I know the rhythm I must employ to nudge rather than dodge. And it's okay, I'm not talking shit if you're not good at this particular system. Dodging is a tool. Rocket jumping is a tool.

Every handyman has his own bag of tools, some carry more than others, some are better with them than others. Fucking way she goes boys.

[MrFlibble]

There have been some relatively recent updates (from roughly a month ago) for Caesar's Revenge:
http://pixelbarons.com

I must say that I like what they're doing, the game has a distinct style, and evidently a lot of research and love for Ancient Rome goes into it too. Some of the playing mechanics and weapons seem rather modern or retro-ish than "real" retro (those Sica reminded me of the dual sickles in Dusk for example), but that clip with priests resurrecting soldiers, especially the part when the player knocks out a priest who vanishes in a cloud of blue smoke, gave me a strong Marathon vibe.

I wonder why the project doesn't seem to be very visible at this moment, especially considering the overall trend.

[Sledgehammer]

[Zaxx]

I want to like this game, I really do because the concept is cool... but man is it ugly as hell. At the start of this retro shooter craze we had Doom and Quake graphics, now we're at Wolf 3D meets Minecraft, wtf. I'm sorry to say this about the first FPS I've ever played but Wolf 3D doesn't look good these days, it doesn't look good since Doom came out.

[Emmanuelexe]

Games like that are an insult to the classic retro fps We had Yes.
I could even play a C.O.D game instead, at least, COD doesnt insult directly our games (and there is still some work done on it)
The worst are the fanboys who defend these games till the end and talk like if they know what make a fps "a classic like the retro fps"
Well, i suppose some people will be desperate enough to buy it and praise it like for some others.
At least, some real goods are coming....

The worst is the fact it doesnt do that only for retro fps style yeah x) steam little games :v
I wanted try Hedon since it uses some mazes and puzzle apparently but the design just keep me out of the game, some enemies reminds me slenderman weird stuff than real characters.
These people should get a team before making a game, thinking they are some kind of god in the making of retro fps and do just this kind of stuff.

Even in the past we had some good big teams even if it was in the 90's and not because the engine was limited, designers, level designers, musicians, testers, game designers ect...sometimes 2 or 3 per category right?
Talented people who can make stuff alone are rare, not everyone is and has to a be a genius', this mode of people who make a fps alone :/

[Aristotle Gumball]

Manhs, on 17 July 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

Talented people who can make stuff alone are rare, not everyone is and has to a be a genius', this mode of people who make a fps alone :/

What I'm noticing is the people who decide to do that are more geared towards programming rather than art-creation. You can be good at one or the other, but it's unlikely you'll be good at both.

[Zaxx]

Manhs, on 17 July 2019 - 06:00 PM, said:

Games like that are an insult to the classic retro fps We had Yes.

I wouldn't call these games insulting because it really is okay to go in a different direction even when it comes to this "modern retro" stuff, it's just really fucking unfortunate that there was nobody on the team to make some good art.

And while Wolf 3D looks like shit nowadays I take back what I said earlier about Nightmare Reaper looking like it: the thing is that Wolf 3D at least had an art style that was there throughout the whole game. It wasn't a great art style, it didn't look super nice even in its own time but it had its purpose and its charm. NR has nothing of that, it looks like random stuff thrown together.

[Jimmy]

Also in Wolfestein's defense, it was cutting edge at the time. This Minecrafty shit is bottom of the barrel artistic direction. This game does not impress me. I'm expected to pay for this when I can download Doom mods made by random people on the internet for free that look 10x better? Nothing looks worse than this style of art + dynamic lighting by the way. AWFUL.

[Zaxx]

That's the mind boggling part, yes, that's it not even at the quality standard of a Doom mod with custom art. For example I'm playing the Ancient Aliens megawad these days and I don't love its art style too much but it looks significantly better than Nightmare Reaper.

[AlektorophobiA]

It has Capstone-tier graphics, if the author's intention was to replicate the looks of mediocre Doom clones, mission accomplished i guess?

[Aristotle Gumball]

I mean, it's literally just MS Paint graphics isn't it? Look at the gun. It also rips its story from American Mcgee's Alice.

[Tekedon]

AlektorophobiA, on 19 July 2019 - 08:02 AM, said:

It has Capstone-tier graphics, if the author's intention was to replicate the looks of mediocre Doom clones, mission accomplished i guess?

What game is that top one?

[fgsfds]

At least you can tell what the fuck is going on on the top screenshot. The bottom one is just a mess of pixels.

Quote

What game is that top one?

Corridor 7.

[necroslut]

Tekedon, on 19 July 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

What game is that top one?

Corridor 7: Alien Invasion. And honestly, Corridor 7:s graphics look much better.

[Zaxx]

necroslut, on 19 July 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

Corridor 7: Alien Invasion. And honestly, Corridor 7:s graphics look much better.

Of course it looks better, Capstone was the pinnacle of entertainment software.

[Tekedon]

necroslut, on 19 July 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

Corridor 7: Alien Invasion. And honestly, Corridor 7:s graphics look much better.

So true

[Sledgehammer]

thricecursed, on 19 July 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

It also rips its story from American Mcgee's Alice.

Thanks for reminding me, was thinking about it a lot, but couldn't really remember for some reason, especially when it comes protag who looks like Alice herself too, so it's not just the story but also aesthetics in some places.

Spoiler

And now I see that EA removed the game from Steam, kind of regret not getting it before.

[MrFlibble]

Zaxx, on 18 July 2019 - 02:55 PM, said:

And while Wolf 3D looks like shit nowadays

I wouldn't agree that the visuals in Wolf3D are per se dated. I'd say its main problem (that makes it kinda boring to play, for me at least) are the engine limitations that imposed serious restrictions on level design, coupled with a pretty low variety of enemies. There's just as much you can do with these assets. Doom was a whole new dimension when it came out in this respect.

I do like however that when you're playing Wolf3D you easily can identify your surroundings: here's the prison cells, here's the mess hall, the kitchen, storage rooms, offices and sleeping quarters. All created just with careful placement of a limited number of props. Of course this is far from being realistic but you get the idea very clearly. Doom on the other hand went in a different direction, playing around more with level geometry rather than pretensions at realism.

I also get this feeling that Wolf3D and even Doom were initially conceived to be way less fast-paced than they turned out to be. No complex inventory system like in contemporary adventures or RPGs but still, somewhere at the core in Wolf3D there's still that concept that you need to carefully proceed and accumulate resources rather than just run around guns ablaze, taking on entire armies. Not that this doesn't apply to the end product but it suddenly occurred to me that probably this more adventur-y kind of slower pace was envisioned. Or maybe it's just me getting such an idea as an afterthought of reading the supplied manuals of these games.

[MusicallyInspired]

Man, I always have a blast playing Wolf3D. Every time. I don't know what it is. The art style, the level design. It's just great. For the first 3 episodes anyway. 4th and 5th are ok I suppose, but episode 6 is a once-play and never again situation. I've been playing Wolf3D quite a lot lately, actually. Trying to get 100% on whole episodes.

[Ninety-Six]

MrFlibble, on 21 July 2019 - 11:41 AM, said:

I also get this feeling that Wolf3D and even Doom were initially conceived to be way less fast-paced than they turned out to be. No complex inventory system like in contemporary adventures or RPGs but still, somewhere at the core in Wolf3D there's still that concept that you need to carefully proceed and accumulate resources rather than just run around guns ablaze, taking on entire armies. Not that this doesn't apply to the end product but it suddenly occurred to me that probably this more adventur-y kind of slower pace was envisioned. Or maybe it's just me getting such an idea as an afterthought of reading the supplied manuals of these games.

You're not wrong, at least as far as Wolfenstein is concerned. Wolf3D was conceived as a followup to the original Castle Wolfenstein and Beyond Castle Wolfenstein games from the mid-80s by Silas Warner, which were the progenitors of the stealth genre. As I recall, Id wanted to basically remake the game from first person and were going to incorporate elements like hiding bodies and stealth mechanics, but found that shooting the enemies was way more fun and so made it the arcadey grandfather FPS we know it today.

I believe that's also why the games after it began incorporating stealth elements as a send-up to the original two games.

[Zaxx]

MrFlibble, on 21 July 2019 - 11:41 AM, said:

I wouldn't agree that the visuals in Wolf3D are per se dated.

They are though, I mean it's just cartoony and it sort of lacks any kind of authenticity as weird as that may sound. The nazis really don't look like nazis and the art style just has too much Keen in it so to speak. Even when it comes to mods with Doom you usually see the original art style being respected while with Wolf 3D everyone is just aiming to replace the color palette and the enemy sprites. And really the lack of floors and ceilings is just weird, I no longer believe that something is there like I did in the old days.

And yeah, sadly Wolf 3D's level design just doesn't hold up because of the engine's technical limitations. The game still has a fun gameplay loop but even that feels very dated because of the lack of weapon variety. That's why I was sad to see the Brutal Wolfenstein 5.0 project being cancelled: Wolf 3D would have really benefitted from expanded weaponry and Doom-like level design, the one episode we got is still the best "doomified" Wolf 3D I've ever played.

[Ninety-Six]

To be fair to Wolfenstein, as I recall that era of PC gaming had just made more colorful displays the standard and developers were throwing color around like it was the end of the world. Even Doom (the first one especially) had decidedly rainbow-decorated interiors. Though admittedly they were beginning to rein themselves in at that point, and by the time of Doom 2 (and '94-'95 in general) colors were used much more sensibly.

[DisgustedGrunt]

And then Quake went full brown.

[Zaxx]

And Quake looked good at being "full brown" just like No One Lives Forever looked amazing with all the colors in the world. What I'm getting at is that there was an inconsistency between the art style and game's theme in Wolf 3D.