[Aristotle Gumball]

I think what I enjoy most about these games is not even the gunplay as much as the freedom of movement and the environments. I had this idea of making my own retro shooter when I signed up here, but honestly my standards are way too high for what I was trying to pull off. Made one map for Quake that is kinda what I want (won't post here because of anonymity, but if you've played one of the map jams you might've played mine). Anyway it took me a fucking year for just one map, lol. Unrealistic to be making a whole game like that. I get why most of these games look crap now. You're having to be realistic with what one person can pull off and still be fun, so everything is a compromise. The games with teams end up better. I really admire Szymanski (Dusk dev) for how he seemingly found the perfect aesthetic for minimum amount of effort. I'm terribly OCD about everything and could never make anything ugly on purpose.

Tbf I know at least two other Quake mappers who spent a year (if not more) on their map for Arcane Dimensions. The latter is my standard pretty much. I'd rather have one giant and beautiful to look at map than a bunch of OK ones that you kinda breeze through, never spending much time marveling at anything. All my favorite shooters from back in the day were visual marvels. Even if they don't hold up today in terms of fidelity, there are still set pieces that are at least interesting to look at/walk through.

[Morpheus Kitami]

Found an interesting looking one today, DREAMWILD. Seems to be a cross between those claymation adventure games (though it isn't claymation I think) and ZAR, with some other bits thrown in. Definitely one of the weirder ones though.

[jkas789]

Morpheus Kitami, on 20 September 2022 - 05:11 PM, said:

TBH, I find I don't really care much about Youtuber opinions these days in general. They can be very entertaining, but don't offer very good critics of things, or that they're not very good at playing games.

Yeah, this days I find it better to try the game out. i still watch youtube reviews to form a idea before I _{pirate it} obtain it and confirm it myself.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Really hate that people are calling this a Blood clone. It plays more like a military shooter for most of it. Large open areas where you literally have to use a sniper rifle to take out enemies. It's got the look right, but gameplay is really different.

Also hate that gore is always a selling point now. All the enemies in these games explode in ridiculously spectacular ways that are interesting for the first few times you see it, but get old (and annoying ) fast. Brutal Doom has had a cancerous influence.

[Morpheus Kitami]

See, when I first saw that game, yeah, I dismissed it as a Blood-clone, because when it was first out you had a sawed-off shotgun and dynamite, along with cultist enemies. Everything about it screamed that the guy wanted to make a Blood expansion, but wanted to get paid for it. Everything about the presentation suggested the game was basically a knock-off. Even that guy you've linked points out how many obvious influences it has. But it is clear that it has something to offer that isn't just Blood, and I think it should have led more with that. This seems to be a problem with a lot of these games, that they don't really know how to present themselves outside of being boomer shooters. It doesn't help that practically none of these games are out yet either.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Agreed. The marketing is completely off and just a way to cash in on the fame of a bigger franchise while presenting whatever it is that the devs actually enjoy. I listened to an interview with the developer out of curiosity and the games he most mentions are much more modern than Blood. Tbh parts of it even play like Far Cry or something. You come across these bases a lot of the time that need to be liberated. I mean, they're still presented like levels, but it just has this modern open world shooter vibe that doesn't gel with an overall retro aesthetic I think. Even sniping these pixel guys from afar feels wrong somehow.

Also while the design elements themselves are not bad, that color filter that makes everything uniform gets on your eyes after a while. I dunno, it's all kinda ugly.

I wish a bunch of these lone wolf autists would team up with each other and make something actually coherent and worth paying money for. Different shades of the 'tism balance each other out.

[NightFright]

This washed out, dithered look makes it appear as if all graphics assets underwent flawed palette conversions. Strange design choice and honestly not really my style.

[Ninety-Six]

You can turn the color filter off, I'm pretty sure.

[NightFright]

After checking the Steam discussions, it seems you can indeed turn off color filtering. They knew this isn't for everyone.
Then my only nitpick is that it's just one episode and future episodes will be sold separately. I would have rather preferred to wait longer than getting these Telltale-style partial releases.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Those are the decisions the devs made creatively. I might not like a painting, but I'd never try to fix it.

[Aleks]

Aristotle Gumball, on 16 October 2022 - 04:23 AM, said:

Those are the decisions the devs made creatively. I might not like a painting, but I'd never try to fix it.

If there's an option, I'd go for it if it made playing the game smoother/easier on the eyes. I mean, devs also leave bullshit such as motion(sickness) blur or noisy filmgrain as default settings, while allowing an option of turning them off. I kinda suspect this is just to encourage players into opening the options menu at all, can't believe anyone sane would prefer to play with that throughout the whole game.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Motion blur is the usual one I turn off, but come on, that's such a minor inconvenience compared to a filter that affects the whole visual aesthetic. And I haven't seen what that looks to see if it's any better. I also heard you can make the models in Prodeus look like models instead of sprites, but hey, that's where they went. The other thing is I don't want to support games that seem to be created by people with questionable judgment. I feel easily disgusted by ugly incoherent visuals and play styles.

Any time I watch someone play Cultic, there are so many other issues that would affect my enjoyment (and I played the demo) that it's just not for me. I don't want weapon upgrades, weird seemingly random slow downs (they often happen when you're too far from an enemy to notice anything), the sliding mechanic that you can abuse the shit out of in order to move faster, but that makes the game seem goofy, the mixture of 3D models and voxels. It's those little incongruencies of styles (visually and gameplay-wise) that almost seem to attack my own concept of what an old school shooter is and should be. Maybe that isn't a criticism as much as a personal issue, but eh, Hrot and Ion Fury were spot on. Practically perfect I think. Dusk looked like shit, but not in an odd way.

[Ninety-Six]

Aristotle Gumball, on 16 October 2022 - 04:23 AM, said:

Those are the decisions the devs made creatively. I might not like a painting, but I'd never try to fix it.

That analogy falls kind of short because unlike paintings, most games aren't...painted. They aren't usually completely static and unchanging.

An options menu isn't like grabbing your own bucket of paint and doing what you want with it. An options menu is like...something that doesn't exist for paintings, because there is nothing analogous to it. It's something inherently unique to gaming. After all, the devs had to put the options menu in the game themselves. And if they did that, then they intended for people to use it. If changing options equates to drawing mustaches on the mona lisa, then how far does that line get drawn? Is changing the game volume in the options menu equatable to "fixing" a masterpiece? How about games where the difficulty can be changed in the menu, going either up or down?

What about mods? You can maybe make a case that those are "fixing it yourself," but what if it fixes a bug? That's inherently not a "creative decision" but rather an unintended side effect not meant to be seen.


My point here is that the line between "creative decision" and "player convenience" is very blurry at times, and again for Cultic the devs had to program in that option themselves, so they knowingly put that in for people to use.

[Aristotle Gumball]

Ninety-Six, on 16 October 2022 - 05:15 AM, said:

Is changing the game volume in the options menu equatable to "fixing" a masterpiece? How about games where the difficulty can be changed in the menu, going either up or down?

These are really stupid examples and I know you know that that's not what I'm talking about. Not gonna argue over my personal quirks.

It's about the fact that they chose a specific presentation for their product that I find odious. That's it. I can't get over it. And it goes deeper than that. So many other things would need to be changed that I'd rather play something else.

[Aleks]

Aristotle Gumball, on 16 October 2022 - 05:09 AM, said:

Motion blur is the usual one I turn off, but come on, that's such a minor inconvenience compared to a filter that affects the whole visual aesthetic. And I haven't seen what that looks to see if it's any better. I also heard you can make the models in Prodeus look like models instead of sprites, but hey, that's where they went. The other thing is I don't want to support games that seem to be created by people with questionable judgment. I feel easily disgusted by ugly incoherent visuals and play styles.

Any time I watch someone play Cultic, there are so many other issues that would affect my enjoyment (and I played the demo) that it's just not for me. I don't want weapon upgrades, weird seemingly random slow downs (they often happen when you're too far from an enemy to notice anything), the sliding mechanic that you can abuse the shit out of in order to move faster, but that makes the game seem goofy, the mixture of 3D models and voxels. It's those little incongruencies of styles (visually and gameplay-wise) that almost seem to attack my own concept of what an old school shooter is and should be. Maybe that isn't a criticism as much as a personal issue, but eh, Hrot and Ion Fury were spot on. Practically perfect I think. Dusk looked like shit, but not in an odd way.

I can see where you're coming from, and just to be clear, from the little that I've seen Cultic doesn't feel like something I'd have any incentive to play/watch someone play at all (and you're talk about the combat feeling like a "military shooter" only strengthens this feeling). I mean, if you consider removing the filter as "changing the aesthetic", then I can relate here - there's some stuff that should be left for the players to choose to their liking, but then if I e.g. map that is supposed to be moody, dark and with a rain, I wouldn't like there to be a "sunny" alternative of it either, as that indeed either messes with the creative vision or is a proof of being confused and unsure of what you're trying to achieve/impress upon the players.

[DisgustedGrunt]

My experience with Cultic is only with the demo but yeah, it plays nothing like Blood.

[Ninety-Six]

I'm like 99% sure those mugshot sprites are Doomguy edits. Like, not just "same style" but actually built off of those sprites.

I mean I could be wrong but every sprite matches way too closely IMO.

[MrFlibble]

Yesterday I learned of The Last Exterminator, which I believe I've never heard about before:

There are some very obvious Duke3D vibes there.

A playable demo is available from Steam.

[MrFlibble]

I just took a tour of the demo, and I'm really digging the Duke vibes in there. It's almost exactly how I imagined a game that would expand on 3DRealms' approach to level design (poke around buildings and streets, find secret areas etc.).

[Morpheus Kitami]

MrFlibble, on 30 September 2023 - 09:19 AM, said:

Yesterday I learned of The Last Exterminator, which I believe I've never heard about before:

There are some very obvious Duke3D vibes there.

A playable demo is available from Steam.

I gotta say this trailer doesn't do a good job of selling the game. The animations feel awfully slow and don't feel right for something going for an old-school arcade vibe. The sounds of the weapons sound weak. That's not to say it doesn't look like a fun game, but the animations take their sweet time going for things and that can affect how the game plays.

[Ninety-Six]

I dunno, I actually think the animations look fairly snappy, at least when they die.

I'm also impressed by the engine. I swore it was Build unitl I saw the stairwell. Then I thought maybe Quake because of the particles and more simple destruction (vs. Build anyway), but no it's completely custom. The fact that I thought it was an old engine is impressive.


I also dig that trailer song.

[MrFlibble]

Morpheus Kitami, on 03 October 2023 - 08:07 AM, said:

I gotta say this trailer doesn't do a good job of selling the game. The animations feel awfully slow [...] the animations take their sweet time going for things and that can affect how the game plays.

I have completed the demo and I've not noticed any adverse effect of the animations on gameplay. Overall it feels very Duke Nukem 3D-ish to me, both in terms of visuals, level design and actual gameplay. Enemy variety is a bit on the low side though, but there seems to be a good emphasis on exploration and just roaming around, which is how I like Build levels.

[Phredreeke]

If you want to play the Last Exterminator better do it soon, because linguini lawyer Mark Kaminari is taking the game to court for looking too much like Duke Nukem.

[NightFright]

Geez, here we go again. Some people can't enjoy a game, they want to feel offended by it. Can somebody please tell that guy what an hommage is? Ah, don't bother. He'd be too stupid to understand the concept.

Maybe we should show this guy some stuff from the early Serious Sam era. I think Croteam is in for a juicy lawsuit, making bucks with cheap ripoffs unpunished for so long...

[Mark]

Mark K has a valid argument. Both games are first person shooters. Both have a HUD. Both have the player shooting a pistol and shotgun. Both have you shooting at aliens. WAKE UP PEOPLE!! Its so obvious that Last Terminator is a clone of DN3D. ( sarcasm )

I don't really know who this guy is other than what I see in posts here occasionally about him. I hope not many people take him seriously.

[Phredreeke]

Mark K's last words before getting banned from Duke4 discord

Quote

Ahhh well it is as I thought then , the usual conspiracy against me , gone all to hell!

[Morpheus Kitami]

Maybe the animations just don't seem all that great in the trailer, but work better in gameplay.

Phredreeke, on 05 October 2023 - 08:54 AM, said:

If you want to play the Last Exterminator better do it soon, because linguini lawyer Mark Kaminari is taking the game to court for looking too much like Duke Nukem.

markfutanari.jpg

Of all the games to try to take to court, he picks the one that only takes (non-copyrightable) gameplay concepts and vague alien concepts from an earlier game? While we're at it, we might want to involve Topps, they might want to sue Gearbox for making a game with an alien whose head looks like a brain!

[NightFright]

If I were one of the dev guys in the Last Exterminator team, I'd be afraid now. Very, very afraid. Of dying due to excessive laughter.

[Reaper_Man]

I hope to one day have the same amount of self-confidence in all of my endeavors, that Mark Kaminari clearly has in all of his.

[ck3D]

Phredreeke, on 06 October 2023 - 05:54 AM, said:

Mark K's last words before getting banned from Duke4 discord

The irony being he got banned in part for getting mad when explicitly denied the authorization to rip and spread Ion Fury's .art assets.