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Prodeus  "Another retro shooter that looks awesome"

User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #61

Here we go again, with pixelation and model view angle locking being used as pandering toward a "retro" aesthetic. Technical limitations are not a stand-in for art design and aesthetic choice.

If you're making a game where 3D models are being used in realtime and you want to eliminate some of the benefits that they provide, I would ask why you want to do that. The response might be "to evoke a feeling or a style", and my response would be "sure, if you're shallow". Let your game appear retro through your use of style, design, color, level of detail, lighting, etc, etc, etc. That's not even beginning to talk about gameplay. If you already have the models in-game then, frankly, pixels are cheap.

If this game wants to achieve a sprite-like look without the massive overhead of actually rendering and painting sprites, I would support that if they go all the way, such as by also limiting animations to instantaneous cuts between a low number of keyframes. Anything less is poseury.
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User is online   Outtagum 

#62

They could tone down the blood some. :unsure:

This post has been edited by Zor: 11 April 2019 - 01:20 PM

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User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor

#63

Too much blood and enemies seem too slow to react. It looks too easy to play.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • Buy Mage's Initiation!

#64

I think the tech is neat the way it portrays models as low-res low-framerate sprite animations, but to actually use it in the game to evoke "retro" is weird, yes.

Also, is it just me or are some of these retro-style games purposely using the Doom 'D' in their logo somewhere. Or at least that letterstyle on the first and last letters. I've seen it somewhere else too. That's mildly annoying. Once was cool. But if everyone starts doing it....

These retro style shooters are going to be a flash in the pan. It's a good thing Ion Maiden and Wrath were launched when they were. Any later and it would seem like copycatting. Wrath almost feels that way already, honestly. If it didn't look so interesting I might have thought the same about it. At first glance, mind you. Not after seeing it.
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User is online   Zaxx 

#65

 MusicallyInspired, on 11 April 2019 - 04:16 PM, said:

I think the tech is neat the way it portrays models as low-res low-framerate sprite animations, but to actually use it in the game to evoke "retro" is weird, yes.

It has multiple purposes though: you will be able to choose between the 2D sprite aesthetic and the original 3D models in the final game as shown here:
https://ksr-ugc.imgi...t&gif-q=50&q=92
And if you really look at it without being biased towards authentic retro graphics / a retro engine (that happens a lot around here to nobody's surprise :D) I think what you'll find is that the visuals make sense in the context of the game. The aim here is not to make a retro shooter but to make a nice indie FPS that mixes the old with the new. The level design is old school with hints of Doom 2016 (mainly the way they seem to handle enemy spawns and monster closets), the shooting is a mix of the "point-and-click" mechanics of old FPS and the ADS focused modern stuff etc., that sort of duality is what the graphics are going for too.

Not everything has to be 100% retro, as you've already pointed out that would get old real fast. I really like that they are going for what they want instead of abiding by the so-called rules. Rules are boring, let's break 'em!

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 11 April 2019 - 05:49 PM

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#66

View Postthricecursed, on 11 April 2019 - 11:36 AM, said:

Kai Kubicek
11 hours ago
Holy Shit!!! OMG, this makes Ion Maiden look like garbage, I wish I could refund it and give you the money I spent on it. Prodeus looks freaking incredible, you can totally tell you guys are not just Devs but are also hard core gamers for real / legit \m/ it show in the game. Man, the quality is off the chain you guys should be really God damn proud of what you accomplished. I am going to hard core pass the word around as much as I can, the proj deserves massive respect.

I think that "De gustibus non est disputandum", both the games are not completed yet and is too early to let out free considerationss (bad or good ones).Thx to a friend of mine, i had a nice taste of Ion Maiden 1 year ago or so, on his PC, as i remember it was in Beta and for me it was already quite completed and amazing as it was, fast paced, hard to play on the higest difficulty (sorry, i can't remember the name right now) and the Bombs were so damn funny to usehttps://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif and, imho it does not need modern graphics, look at Cuphead, it had a lot of success.
Instead, i had no chance to try Prodeus, but taking in consideration that it is in pre-alpha, it does not look that bad to me; that HUD is pretty big (useless the player is almost blind :P) enemies are a bit too slow, sounds and animations can surely be improved (i thought that those animations are less than 30 frames honestly lol).
Then both games can be improved even more (as Pre-Alpha the second one need a lot of improvments), but of one thing i am always sure, unfortunately nice graphics does not guarantee a nice game.

View PostLazy Dog, on 11 April 2019 - 09:28 AM, said:

what's up with the giant hud?


Maybe he pretend to be Iron Man? Get back to work you JARVIS :P.

This post has been edited by The Battlelord: 11 April 2019 - 08:23 PM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • Buy Mage's Initiation!

#67

View PostZaxx, on 11 April 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

It has multiple purposes though: you will be able to choose between the 2D sprite aesthetic and the original 3D models in the final game as shown here:
https://ksr-ugc.imgi...t&gif-q=50&q=92
And if you really look at it without being biased towards authentic retro graphics / a retro engine (that happens a lot around here to nobody's surprise :D) I think what you'll find is that the visuals make sense in the context of the game. The aim here is not to make a retro shooter but to make a nice indie FPS that mixes the old with the new. The level design is old school with hints of Doom 2016 (mainly the way they seem to handle enemy spawns and monster closets), the shooting is a mix of the "point-and-click" mechanics of old FPS and the ADS focused modern stuff etc., that sort of duality is what the graphics are going for too.


Ahh. To be honest, that lessens my weird cheap vibes. Having options like that is neat. Sorry, Hendricks, I like it. lol

That link doesn't seem to work, though.

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 11 April 2019 - 09:27 PM

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User is online   Hendricks266 

  • Weaponized Autism

  #68

If people like the aesthetic they're presenting, that's fine. Not everything meets highbrow standards for taste. I'm not saying you shouldn't like it, I'm saying they can do better. What I see puts image over substance.

Not to take shitpost bait, but I'm also not arguing for a strict interpretation of "retro" or "accuracy" to existing retro material. I'm arguing for merit in design choices, and that it's better to try less to appear retro when you're doing it in shallow ways.

Of course, shallow things can be widely attractive for the wrong reasons, and I would not be surprised to get bashed for challenging a general populace who are satisfied by shallow things.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#69

Jesus, from this video it looks like they are going for a Doom 2016 clone with low-quality GFX filters. That really doesn't go together.

It's like doing this to Doom Eternal:

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: doom_eternal-retro.jpg


This post has been edited by NightFright: 11 April 2019 - 11:14 PM

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#70

Giving you the option to essentially turn off the "retro stuff" makes it even cheaper to me, like they're not even confident in their own product, and the extent of the retroness is a couple of shaders. You can turn the giant HUD off as well, how great. Why not have it be normal in the first place? It just shows a level of "we don't really know wtf we're doing" on the part of the devs.

Anyway, without the garbled graphics it just looks like budget Doom 2016.
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User is offline   xMobilemux 

#71



Sure it doesn't look like it's gonna knock my socks off, but it's interesting enough for me to back it, which makes it the 2nd game I've backed on Kickstarter.
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User is offline   Maisth 

#72

Looks like an interesting game but. There's too much crap going on in the screen for me to know what i'm shooting.
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User is online   Zaxx 

#73

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 11 April 2019 - 09:27 PM, said:

That link doesn't seem to work, though.

Oh, here it is then:
https://i.imgur.com/rlDyztg.jpg
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#74

I watched the alpha footage a bit (not all of it) and had a rather strong impression that what the devs are making is essentially a stand-alone version of Brutal Doom. Save for the excessive amount of cranberry juice and combat that feels rather slow (in that video, at least), I think it could actually work more or less nice. At least, the level design itself seems to have potential.

If the developers really know what they're doing and take off the Doom/BD platform I suppose this could at least turn out to be an interesting take on the genre if nothing else.
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User is online   Zaxx 

#75

View Postthricecursed, on 12 April 2019 - 12:00 AM, said:

Giving you the option to essentially turn off the "retro stuff" makes it even cheaper to me, like they're not even confident in their own product, and the extent of the retroness is a couple of shaders. You can turn the giant HUD off as well, how great. Why not have it be normal in the first place? It just shows a level of "we don't really know wtf we're doing" on the part of the devs.

It's not about that, these options are the result of audience feedback, people wanted them so they got implemented. A 3D indie / retro FPS has to meet different standards than for example the 2.5D goodness of Ion Maiden: retro 3D usually reminds people of Quake so they want their "configs" while in the case of Build people just want the authentic Build engine feel.
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User is online   Zaxx 

#76

It's funny that they reached Kickstarter goal hours after Gggmanlives released his video. :) Sonny Jim has influence it seems.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 12 April 2019 - 12:00 PM

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#77

View PostZaxx, on 12 April 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

It's not about that, these options are the result of audience feedback, people wanted them so they got implemented. A 3D indie / retro FPS has to meet different standards than for example the 2.5D goodness of Ion Maiden: retro 3D usually reminds people of Quake so they want their "configs" while in the case of Build people just want the authentic Build engine feel.


I realize they are there as a result of feedback (gee, wonder why) and I'm saying it looks dumb when you can tone down your original vision like that, eliminating basically most of the "retro" in the process. Really reveals the aesthetic for what it is - a superficial attempt at disguising what would otherwise be a pretty bland looking modern shooter with enemies made of jam.

But, don't get me wrong - if this is someone's dream to make a game like Prodeus then I wish them all the success.
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User is online   NightFright 

  • The Truth is in here

#78

If you want a Doom 2016 clone, wait for Doom Eternal. It will cost more than Prodeus, but it will also be better. And there's always Steam sales for those who can wait.

I currently fail to see where they are trying to go with this game. A low budget version of a popular shooter you can already buy for a low budget price? With filters that make it look worse but not classic in any way since the artistic approach simply doesn't allow that? A questionable adaptation of the "retro wave" idea for sure.
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User is offline   Tekedon 

#79

Gggmanlives previewed the game:

Watch

This post has been edited by Tekedon: 13 April 2019 - 01:10 AM

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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#80

View PostNightFright, on 12 April 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

I currently fail to see where they are trying to go with this game. A low budget version of a popular shooter you can already buy for a low budget price? With filters that make it look worse but not classic in any way since the artistic approach simply doesn't allow that? A questionable adaptation of the "retro wave" idea for sure.

Well, the official website says this:

Quote

Prodeus is the first person shooter of old, reimagined using modern rendering techniques. It reaches the quality you expect from a AAA experience while adhering to some of the aesthetic technical limits of older hardware.

To be fair, the developers are entitled to interpret "aesthetic technical limits of older hardware" any way they choose, especially since they do not set a concrete time frame. (I mean, someone might like their sound effects at 8 kHz accompanied by bleeper music, who is there to judge them?)

Personally I'm getting more and more convinced that the term "retro" is becoming increasingly inadequate because the definition of "retro" is totally subjective. If anything, the tech that renders true 3D models as low-resolution sprites is a novel gimmick which I gather is getting pretty popular:

That alone however is not a reason to blame the developers of Prodeus though, the desire to try out something new is quite natural. What I wonder is if there are any practical applications beyond simple novelty for this. Perhaps this tech can create sprites that do not suffer from pixellation when zoomed in? I suppose that given enough system resources back when sprite-based first-person games were prevalent, their developers would opt for object and actor sprites at as a high resolution as possible to preserve maximum detail even at extreme close-ups. Maybe the model-to-sprite method could help accomplish this and actually maintain the sprite equally crisp at any distance?
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#81

Today in "stretch goals that don't inspire confidence":

https://i.imgur.com/TYZbNLJ.png

This post has been edited by Doom64hunter: 23 April 2019 - 02:47 AM

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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental

#82

After hearing Gmanlives and Civvie 11 take a crack at it... I honestly still feel the same. It looks like it would be fun, but I honestly don't see anything in there mechanically to inspire me to buy it. It literally is a mash up of Doom and Doom 3 and Brutal Doom with a... Almost Bulletstorm/Rage vibe to some of the designs. IE: it doesn't really feel like it's identity is anything of it's own.

.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#83

 Commando Nukem, on 10 May 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

IE: it doesn't really feel like it's identity is anything of it's own.

But if a game project successfully combines elements from other, popular games and the result is fun/playable, is it bad that it lacks a great degree of originality in the end?
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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental

#84

 MrFlibble, on 11 May 2019 - 01:58 AM, said:

But if a game project successfully combines elements from other, popular games and the result is fun/playable, is it bad that it lacks a great degree of originality in the end?


In this case, yes. It's not blending, it's just borrowing and it doesn't stand out. It's bland. Why play this over one of the Doom games? What does this do that that game series doesn't do?
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