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[RELEASE] Foothold

User is offline   Kyanos 

#1

http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag90/drek7/capt0000_zps788ffd28.png

Quote

======================================================================
THIS LEVEL IS NEITHER MADE BY OR SUPPORTED BY FRESCH.

Title : foothold
Filename : foothold.map
Author : Drek

Description : Those alien bastards are up to thier old
tricks. Duke, you must clear out the foothold
they have by the old hydro plant. Careful,
rumors have it a Battlelord has been spotted
in the area too.

======================================================================

* Play Information *

Single Player : Yes
DukeMatch 2-8 Player : No
Cooperative 2-8 Player : No
Difficulty Settings : Yes
Eduke32 Required : Yes
New Art : No
New Music : Yes
New Sound Effects : No
New .CON Files : No
Demos Replaced : Yes/No

=====================================================================

* Construction *

Base : New level from scratch
Level Editor(s) Used : Mapster32
Art Editor(s) Used : None
Construction Time : February, 2013 - March 2014 off and on
Known Bugs/Problems :

=====================================================================

*Important Information*

Installation : Unzip in your eduke32.exe folder and run

Important Notes : This map was original made for Beach CBP.
It was cut for being too shitty... j/k It's my
first Duke3D SP map and I had fun making it.
I hope you enjoy playing :blink:

======================================================================


View PostDrek, on 06 March 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

WYSIWYG I will not ever update this map. I made it for the CBP, it is what it is. I almost sat on it forever, I'm not happy with it, but today I decided to make the mini-boss the real deal and release it as is.

OK, I fixed the buggy door and made a liar of myself...
Thanks to Methy for the bug report.
Attached File  foothold.zip (2.87MB)
Number of downloads: 193

This post has been edited by Drek: 07 March 2014 - 07:58 AM

4

User is online   MetHy 

#2

I can't figure out what the button does in the room after you use the red key. Been around the map twice without seeing any change.
1

User is offline   Kyanos 

#3

It is supposed to open the door in the same room, just down the ramp, sometimes that door is already open?? sorry, it's fairly obvious what to do once you get in.
0

User is online   MetHy 

#4

Well, that door never opened. Spent at least 10mins trying to do everything possible in that map after that button (which I tried to press several times, too), you should have your map betatested, and if you know there is a problem with that door make sure it's fixed...
1

User is offline   Kyanos 

#5

The commander might just trigger the door by accident, you may not have to push the button, or maybe push it twice. There is a door like ten steps away so I thought most people would be fine with it, no need for a viewscreen here. It was sort of beta tested many times in development by the Beach CBP team, no one else had any problems there. I just remember one time I played and was like huh? this door is already open?? The door will open and close infinitely with the button. So you are not stuck or anything.
0

User is offline   Danukem 

  • Duke Plus Developer

#6

View PostDrek, on 06 March 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

The door will open and close infinitely with the button.


Sounds like the button needs to be changed so that only the player can access it, and only one time.
0

User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#7

Actually I don't think I ever managed to finish the section, when I got stuck near where I thought was the end, I just assumed it was meant to be tied into the next section. IIRC it also needed a bit of cleaning up and I'm not sure what you did between the CBP version and this as I haven't looked yet.

I agree that if you were going to release it as a standalone map you should have had it betatested again, preferably by someone who hasn't seen it before. I might try to check out the map this weekend.
0

User is offline   Kyanos 

#8

WYSIWYG I will not ever update this map. I made it for the CBP, it is what it is. I almost sat on it forever, I'm not happy with it, but today I decided to make the mini-boss the real deal and release it as is.

This post has been edited by Drek: 06 March 2014 - 03:35 PM

0

User is offline   Mark 

#9

Wow. First Eddy, now Drek. Artists sure are touchy. :blink:
0

User is offline   Jimmy 

  • 1776 World Wide

#10

"THIS LEVEL IS NEITHER MADE BY OR SUPPORTED BY FRESCH."

My sides. I love you.
1

User is offline   Kyanos 

#11

View PostMark., on 06 March 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

Wow. First Eddy, now Drek. Artists sure are touchy. :blink:

I'm not dropping out or nothing... Just this thing has been haunting me for a long time, Micky invited me to the CBP last February. I was considering making a full map out of it, once Beach CBP was finally released. Mainly I wanted to redo the interior areas, I've learned much in the year since I carved them out. Also, I definitely feel the map could have used a lot more detail/polish. However, I do not want to do it. Every time I opened this damn map I was hit with creative blocks or just plain distaste of mapster, I seriously deleted all of it once but managed to track down a fairly recent version I had on USB. Still I feel it's a fun map and was worth sharing with you all. No regrets.
1

User is offline   blizzart 

#12

View PostDrek, on 06 March 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

WYSIWYG I will not ever update this map. I made it for the CBP, it is what it is. I almost sat on it forever, I'm not happy with it, but today I decided to make the mini-boss the real deal and release it as is.


There wasn´t any mini-boss in what I played. :blink:

Anyways, nice map for a first release. I really liked the trees at the beginning.
And I don´t understand the problem with the switch/door in this specific place. It was more than obvious for me, where I had to go.
1

User is offline   Kyanos 

#13

View PostJimmy, on 06 March 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

"THIS LEVEL IS NEITHER MADE BY OR SUPPORTED BY FRESCH."

My sides. I love you.

I thought a few of you guys here would like that.


View Postblizzart, on 06 March 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

There wasn´t any mini-boss in what I played. :blink:

Anyways, nice map for a first release. I really liked the trees at the beginning.
And I don´t understand the problem with the switch/door in this specific place. It was more than obvious for me, where I had to go.



I've always hated maps where a switch here does something wayyy over there, or worse and go Duke Burger on people... I mean sometimes it works well, sometimes a view screen is in order. It's because of so many maps like this that he even considered looking all over the map "what did that switch do?" I don't blame him, in retrospect, I didn't even need to make a switch for that door.
0

User is offline   The Commander 

  • I used to be a Brown Fuzzy Fruit, but I've changed bro...

#14

View PostJimmy, on 06 March 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

"THIS LEVEL IS NEITHER MADE BY OR SUPPORTED BY FRESCH."

My sides. I love you.

:blink:
0

User is offline   Loke 

#15

Nice map for a first timer. The music choice was kinda strange and I also had issues with that door down the stairs that was supposedly already opened. But whatever, I had fun with it and the fog surrounding the map was really cool (something I'd like to see more of in maps).
0

User is online   MetHy 

#16

View PostDrek, on 06 March 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

you may not have to push the button, or maybe push it twice.


Now I'm pissed. Don't treat me like a retard, there is a problem with your map there, it made me waste 10 mins of my precious time going around the entire map twice, and yet I talked about that politely in my first post. I just tried again and after pushing the button once more the door opened, except that now it opened the door even though the button is in the 'off' position, the same position as it was before I pushed it in the first place (I even checked in mapster to make sure, it's the same position) so don't put that on me as if I'm a complete retard who doesn't know how to push a button. The door doesn't have an autoclose feature so it shouldn't do that.

This post has been edited by MetHy: 07 March 2014 - 06:54 AM

1

User is offline   Kyanos 

#17

View PostMetHy, on 07 March 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Now I'm pissed. Don't treat me like a retard, there is a problem with your map there, it made me waste 10 mins of my precious time going around the entire map twice, and yet I talked about that politely in my first post. I just tried again and after pushing the button once more the door opened, except that now it opened the door even though the button is in the 'off' position, the same position as it was before I pushed it in the first place (I even checked in mapster to make sure, it's the same position) so don't put that on me as if I'm a complete retard who doesn't know how to push a button. The door doesn't have an autoclose feature so it shouldn't do that.

Man, it's just a game... Honestly, I haven't any idea why sometimes that door does that. I'm sorry that my map caused you to waste your precious 10 mins. Thanks for trying to be polite about it yesterday, sorry if I offended you.
0

User is offline   blizzart 

#18

View PostDrek, on 07 March 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Man, it's just a game... Honestly, I haven't any idea why sometimes that door does that. I'm sorry that my map caused you to waste your precious 10 mins. Thanks for trying to be polite about it yesterday, sorry if I offended you.


Oh, that door was already open? I thought there was a timer which closed it after some seconds and I was just not fast enough. So I pushed the button twice and ran to it.

:blink:
0

User is offline   Kyanos 

#19

OK. I just looked into why that door opens, for real, not just speculation. Turns out opening the doors at the top of the elevator also activate the door in the red key locked room. I'm calling it a good ol' bug, as the tags are proper, it even does it if I change all the tags. Or maybe I did something wrong, the set in question have no tag while the problem door is switch activated, I don't see why the doors are linked.

Added:
Damn it, straight off the infosuite... oh well

Quote

"When I open one door, a door in a completely different area opens up!"
This means that the S sprites in each door sector are sharing the same Channel value. Assign the two S sprites unique Channel values.


This post has been edited by Drek: 07 March 2014 - 07:46 AM

0

User is offline   Kyanos 

#20

Fixed it, thanks Methy. Once again sorry bros. No hard feelings :blink:

Updated map in first post... despite my proclamation of WYSIWYG
0

User is online   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer

#21

View PostThe Commander, on 06 March 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

:lol:


View PostDrek, on 06 March 2014 - 02:02 PM, said:

The commander might just trigger the door by accident


The Commander, why did you triggered the door!? :blink: You broke the map's progression :blink:

This post has been edited by Mike Norvak: 07 March 2014 - 08:05 AM

1

User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#22

played it (the original before the door update)

i liked the layout, the environmental architecture, but the shading is horrible - there is almost none; especially outside

i skipped a big portion of the map on my first run. grabbed the steroids and jumped off the rock in the middle of the waterfall (above the underwater cave) to the cliff where the red card is, walked straight to the red lock.

the battlelord hovers over the door keeping the player from getting out and using the yellow key so the only real option is to sit back in the cave and shoot the boss to finish the level
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User is offline   Kyanos 

#23

Yeah, you don't even need steroids to do that jump a well timed strafe jump will get you up there, it's intentional for replayability, I can get to the boss in like 5 minutes. About the boss fight, you may backtrack a little and come at him from up the waterfall if he blocks the door and you're outta ammo, there is a ton of rpg ammo spawned up there to help deal with him.
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User is online   MetHy 

#24

View PostDrek, on 07 March 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Fixed it, thanks Methy. Once again sorry bros. No hard feelings :blink:



Yeah okay no problem.

I also liked the overall environment but that was that was the only thing I REALLY liked. The size of the map and the theme were cool because it's pretty rare to have this kind of stuff in duke3D. But as far as design goes, most things feel unfinished, as if you only built the rough sketch of the map and called it done : generally blocky looking environment, overstretched textures, lack of detailing, lack of shading...
Gameplay just doesn't work in many ways : the turret on top of the building can't hit you from most angles and is hard to be hit, too. Some octobrains got stuck in the sky and would NEVER come down and couldn't be shot at, either. Same thing for a drone but this time got stuck in the water at the bottom of the waterfall. Half of the respawn you put at the end actually get there before you pick up the key, so if you backtrack for health you'll find them before expected. In that room with the yellow key I also kept bumping into some invisible blocking thing. Like Forge, the BLord doesn't really work, plus if you do kill him you'll feel like you've missed a part of the map because you haven't used the yellow key at all. I also thought there was a definite lack of health for the BLord, but then again, the only thing you can do against a BLord in this kind of room is hide behind the corner while he's shooting so you can spam him while he's shooting the wall.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#25

i wouldn't label it as "replayability". more like an exploit (and there are several places to do it besides the waterfall - like that waterfall overlook after the player passes the yellow locked room the first time and gets back into the river).

i'd lower that first rock a couple ticks to prevent that jump and move the steroids to the room where the yellow key is - that would give the player the option of sitting back and killing the boss or using the 'roids to make a run for the exit

This post has been edited by Forge: 07 March 2014 - 08:33 AM

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User is online   MetHy 

#26

But well, I somehow enjoyed the map for what it was but I hope you take more time to polish your next maps. This one didn't feel like it was finished both in terms of design and gameplay.

This post has been edited by MetHy: 07 March 2014 - 08:30 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#27

the general "blockiness" and minimal detailing probably could have been overlooked if there was some nice contrasting wall shading and the addition of sector shading outside. the indoor areas needed a light source and the same considerations for lighting/shading and maybe some pal implementation. and yeah, the stretched textures looked pretty bad too.

layout exploits and enemy placement could also use some improvement as well.

it's enjoyable enough, but could have been much better. a little more consideration for the environmental aesthetics and beta-testing would have gone a long way to improve the overall quality.

maybe someday you'll revisit this map and give it the face lift it needs
0

User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#28

I think we can all agree that once a mapper's skill has improved a considerable amount during the construction of a first/second map, that they should simply abandon the map and start something fresh and done properly from the ground up. It's much better than iterating the same thing over and over while still ending up with an at-best average product with the worst time invested to quality ratio ever.

Drek must have made the vast majority of this map over a year ago, and has definitely had practice since then, at least making DM maps. Obviously you guys listed a lot of noobish issues, so it makes sense that instead of spending the large amount of time doing these tedious fixes, he could work on something new 10 times better and faster.

Also it's difficult implementing shading on a fog map, because larger shades just mean more fog, which doesn't necessarily look good having contrasting fog in different sectors/walls.
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User is offline   LeoD 

  • Topic #3513

#29

I liked it. Thanks for releasing. Worth to be kept for later replay. Can't add on the previous comments except that I liked the gameplay (quite tough for me on DukePlus). Looking forward to your next SP map. :blink:
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User is offline   Forge 

  • Speaker of the Outhouse

#30

View PostMicky C, on 07 March 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

I think we can all agree that once a mapper's skill has improved a considerable amount during the construction of a first/second map, that they should simply abandon the map and start something fresh...etc

Also it's difficult implementing shading on a fog map, because larger shades just mean more fog, which doesn't necessarily look good having contrasting fog in different sectors/walls.

apparently we all don't agree

A ) the map is worth fixing once said skills are improved (ala Red 1)
B ) the fog effect is only strong from long distances - of which there are only a couple places to get that kind of view - so it doesn't look good right now without any shading

-says one self proclaimed mapping expert to the other who speaks for everybody else
bam!

This post has been edited by Forge: 07 March 2014 - 03:57 PM

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