[Mr.Deviance]

In a recent site update, Gearbox added a so called love letter addressed to the pc gamers that are supposed to buy Borderlands 2 when it comes out.
The so called love letter can be found here http://www.borderlan...om/loveletter?x
Now, we all know how much DNF was loved by the pc crowd, so I don't have to further detail that aspect.
We also know that many pc gamers were displeased with how the first Borderlands game was missing lots of basic features in the multiplayer part of the game and in other areas.
So what do you pc gamers think?
Is this a love letter where they want to express their love to us, or is this a poorly disguised attempt at ass kissing what they might assume is a naive bunch of people that are ready to forgive and forget what Gearbox did in the past and let themselves bribed by a silly message that intends to brag with basic features that should already be part of the game even without having to mention it in public.
Are we really at a point where bragging with normality has become a bonus factor to sell you games?
Yeah I guess we are there.
Boasting that the pc game will have support for the pc and is not going to be a crappy port, is an actual reason to brag about it these days...

I've beaten Borderlands and I am sick of it beyond acceptable levels and every time I see a screenshot or a video of it, I feel like I've had waaaay too much of it already, considering how repetitive it got after 1 week of playing it and it's dlc's...
So I personally don't give a shit about it's sequel, especially after seeing it's trailer and a few screenshots.
It doesn't look like a bad game but it just looks like more of the same and that is what I don't want anymore.

I just made this topic because I wanted to see a debate about this love letter from gearbox to the pc fans.

[TerminX]

Borderlands did get really repetitive... I beat it once, then did a couple of the DLCs, and then started a new game with the same character (to make everything more difficult) and couldn't stomach sitting through it all again. I had really just wanted to play only enough to unlock the fast transit system (so I could warp to the third DLC, play it and then warp back to the main area in case I wanted to play later) but I couldn't even get that far due to how boring it was.

[Tetsuo]

Well the FOV was a pain in Borderlands how you could hack it but it was stubborn so you had to pipe the FOV change with other functions in the game like movement. But then again I find that's true with DNF too.. like even after they patched in an FOV option I found that FOV option was stubborn as to want you to play with the FOV at 75 and reset every now and then to that. So I still have to pipe that in with other functions. In addition.. I can't edit my user ini that I'm actually using.. I had to back up and edit the default one that comes with the game for it to accept the changes I make. But in all honesty I don't think that's all Gearboxes fault... Epic makes the engine and many newer Unreal Engine games have similar characteristics no matter where they come from.

[Mr.Deviance]

Tetsuo, on 18 March 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

But in all honesty I don't think that's all Gearboxes fault... Epic makes the engine and many newer Unreal Engine games have similar characteristics no matter where they come from.

It's Gearbox fault... Trust me on that one.
It's not unreal engine's fault.
Go play with the UDK, it gets updated monthly and it's free to fuck around with however you like.
You can even make DNF from scratch if you have the time, manpower and dedication and a reason to.
It is absolutely not related to the unreal engine.
All the other games that have the same problem, have it because they are most likely console ports made in a rush like they all usually are.

[Jblade]

Kinda cool, but also kinda sad that pretty much everything on that list is stuff PC gamers should be getting anyway; saying they're extra is like saying break lights are extras on a car. Still if they implement it well than that's good news for everyone.

[Mr.Deviance]

James, on 18 March 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Kinda cool, but also kinda sad that pretty much everything on that list is stuff PC gamers should be getting anyway; saying they're extra is like saying break lights are extras on a car. Still if they implement it well than that's good news for everyone.

That's what I just wrote in the first post.

[thatguy]

Tetsuo, on 18 March 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

Well the FOV was a pain in Borderlands how you could hack it but it was stubborn so you had to pipe the FOV change with other functions in the game like movement. But then again I find that's true with DNF too.. like even after they patched in an FOV option I found that FOV option was stubborn as to want you to play with the FOV at 75 and reset every now and then to that. So I still have to pipe that in with other functions. In addition.. I can't edit my user ini that I'm actually using.. I had to back up and edit the default one that comes with the game for it to accept the changes I make. But in all honesty I don't think that's all Gearboxes fault... Epic makes the engine and many newer Unreal Engine games have similar characteristics no matter where they come from.

The FOV is a console thing. Not a game engine thing.

[Jblade]

Yeah FOV has been getting narrower and narrower because it cuts down the amount of screenspace being rendered so they can put more power into graphics.....the consoles we have now are horribly horribly outdated. I have to admire how much devs can squeeze out of the consoles though even though they're pretty much 2005-ish hardware.

[Kathy]

Is that a joke? Not the letter itself(it obviously is), but the list of so-called PC features. Mouse usable menus and remappable keys? Whoop-de-fucking-do!

It is really sad they advertise stuff like that as features. It's like saying 360 version would support gamepad. PC-features that worth mentioning are moddability, map editor etc. Everything else should have been on PC anyway.

Did they really go beyond any comprehension that thought writing a "love letter" with default PC features was clever? "Honey, I love you! Not only that, but I also won't sleep with other women."

"Push To Talk"

James, on 18 March 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

Yeah FOV has been getting narrower and narrower because it cuts down the amount of screenspace being rendered so they can put more power into graphics.....the consoles we have now are horribly horribly outdated.

Not exactly. It also has to do with an angle. Unless you sit really close to TV having high FOV would only squeeze everything in a low angle. Having both walls visible from the corner is not good. That being said, FOV slider should be an option in SP at least.

Quote

I have to admire how much devs can squeeze out of the consoles though even though they're pretty much 2005-ish hardware.

It's called "optimization". The same thing PC games sometimes forget about.

[rasmus thorup]

Yea, that list is really weird o.O I mean, push to talk? Where is the Rain effect support

[thatguy]

Burnett, on 18 March 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Not exactly. It also has to do with an angle. Unless you sit really close to TV having high FOV would only squeeze everything in a low angle. Having both walls visible from the corner is not good. That being said, FOV slider should be an option in SP at least.

Exactly. People tend to get more sick playing a console FPS at a higher FOV than lower. Both more room for graphics and accessibility to console gamers is logically good for the devs.

[trustn0!]

I have to say im happy but im also sad at the same time.
I agree we have really reached the point where shit that would be considered default 6 or more years ago have to be included as features.

FUCK SC2 doesnt even have lan support!
I mean come the fuck on.
But you know what at least they are fucking trying

Name me more than 5 major multiplatform releases that werent either PC centric or indies back in 2011 that came included with a FOV slider because all i can think of is DE:HR and BF3 and both of those were PC centric
Does this forgive them of the lies of the first BL1 port?
Who knows,at least it looks like they acknowledged the problems and seem to be rectifying them instead of simply ignoring the issues.
To me BL2 seems to be what BL1 was supposed to be with all of the gameplay and story issues resolved which is the exact same feeling i had with Diablo 2 when compared to Diablo 1
I loved Borderlands even if i had to do a bunch of workarounds in order to be comfortable playing it and it looks like ill love BL2 even more

[Kathy]

trustn0!, on 18 March 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Name me more than 5 major multiplatform releases that werent either PC centric or indies back in 2011 that came included with a FOV slider because all i can think of is DE:HR and BF3 and both of those were PC centric

In case you didn't know, PC-version of DE was outsourced to another studio while the main developer was doing 360/PS3 versions. So it was hardly "PC centric".

[trustn0!]

Burnett, on 18 March 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

In case you didn't know, PC-version of DE was outsourced to another studio while the main developer was doing 360/PS3 versions. So it was hardly "PC centric".

Thats even worse!
It just proves my point even further >_>

[Jblade]

Quote

It's called "optimization". The same thing PC games sometimes forget about.

Yeah, but with a console they're dealing with one set of hardware that doesn't change compared to the hundreds of different kind of configurations you can have on a PC. All 360s are the same specs so it's infinitely easier to optimise for a single set of hardware than it is for PC where every person has a different computer.

[MusicallyInspired]

I really couldn't give Gearbox a second thought. I don't care what they do from here on out. I was never interested in Borderlands anyway. They haven't been respecting PC gamers in ages and this is no different to me.

[Mad Max RW]

About this "love letter" to PC gamers, Randy Pitchford promised the same stuff before Borderlands was released. They even used it as an excuse for delaying the PC version a few weeks. We all know how that turned out. What could have been an A+ game turned into a B-rate throwaway console port. Good, but nowhere near the greatness it could easily have been if they truly cared. Borderlands 2? Meh. Even with the basic features they missed last time around the game itself doesn't look like enough of an improvement for a day one purchase.

[Hank]

Dear Gerabox, my beloved angel in the heaven. I love you dearly on my Xbox, those fun games need no keyboard or a mouse, just a pad. Yet, you tempt my heart as PC user. Just enable ~ and let me tinker, I'll figure out the rest; give me access to the code, I'll give the actors new roles; give me access to the set, I'll make them like never seen before. My love, my honey pumpkin, you see, when I'm on the PC, I use my brain and imagination because I love to use them once in a while. Thus, if you want my love through the PC , you need to understand otherwise our hot love will go down the sewer.

This is as politely as I can put this.

[Jimmy]

Welcome to 1997.

[Ronin]

Mad Max RW, on 18 March 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

About this "love letter" to PC gamers, Randy Pitchford promised the same stuff before Borderlands was released. They even used it as an excuse for delaying the PC version a few weeks. We all know how that turned out. What could have been an A+ game turned into a B-rate throwaway console port. Good, but nowhere near the greatness it could easily have been if they truly cared. Borderlands 2? Meh. Even with the basic features they missed last time around the game itself doesn't look like enough of an improvement for a day one purchase.

No, there is no amount of pc optimization that could have saved Borderlands from being a pretty boring game, it is what it is. And that love letter is just trying to cock rub casual pc gamers so they make a bit more money out of a tiny bit of effort, nothing more, they are not trying to appeal to the hardcore crowd.

[MusicallyInspired]

My brother was into Borderlands. Until he got to the apparently immensely disappointing ending.

[rasmus thorup]

For a game that seems to be pretty sucky, Borderlands sure got a lot of attention

[thatguy]

rasmus thorup, on 19 March 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

For a game that seems to be pretty sucky, Borderlands sure got a lot of attention

and money and fans....

[Bloodshot]

Is this a joke? I see what they think they are doing, but seriously? So being able to remap our keys means our version got more love? The only good thing I see in there that is actually worth mentioning is Offline lan support - that's been missing from a lot of games for a long time.

[DUKEvsS.H.O.D.A.N]

rasmus thorup, on 19 March 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

For a game that seems to be pretty sucky, Borderlands sure got a lot of attention

That is how it is these days. Mass effect, Gears of war etc. They sell like hotcakes and they are some of the worst games I have ever played. At least Borderlands was more of a game than those two though. Dont blame consoles though there used to be plenty of fantastic games on consoles including plenty of Duke Nukem games. Blame the people that develop and publish them, they are the sole reason games today suck.

[Kathy]

Why not blame people who play/buy them?

[Mad Max RW]

Burnett, on 20 March 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Why not blame people who play/buy them?

In most cases they're too stupid and young to know when they're being taken advantage of.

[Kathy]

Putting your broad answer aside, aren't they still to blame for being stupid?

[Mad Max RW]

Burnett, on 20 March 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

Putting your broad answer aside, aren't they still to blame for being stupid?

Sure, but it has to do with the environment. Not everybody can be a PC gamer. The masses go for the quick and easy. Quick and easy is also designed for the stupid. For example, when I was a kid all my friends and all the kids in the neighborhood had a NES and a Gameboy. My dad hated video games, but he worked with computers and loved building them. So while learning from my dad how to build computers he let us buy a game (fond memories of waiting for those Commander Keen episodes flooding back) through one of his tech magazines then made sure we beat it. Not only was I being educated in something useful, but I felt like I was rewarded at the end. Meanwhile everybody else is a spoiled console brat who has no idea what to do when their overpriced out-of-the-box computer breaks down. At that point it's easier to be lazy and stupid than make any effort to change.

[Ronin]

Why are people stupid just because they don't know how to build their own machine? That is simply a very specific set of skills that you either learn or you don't it has nothing to do with intelligence, by your logic Mike Tyson should be strutting around calling everybody stupid because they can't beat the shit out of everyone they meet, he learned how to fight and put the work in, others do other things well, you can't assume that everybody should be as dedicated to their hobby as you are and if not they're stupid or lazy, that is a mild form os aspergers syndrome to think that way.
There has to be two sides to the coin, and that is what we have, there are those who want to pick up and play a ready made gaming experience then move on, and there are those who want to play that game then tinker with the settings and modify it after to their liking and create rich communitys that last. This is what we have now, the industry would have difficultly making much profit if it only catered to hardcore pc heads as they are nearly never happy.
Some may not like it but they need to realise that they are not the only one in the world whos opinion matters, I don't like the dumbed down stuff either but it has its place and some people like it, probably more people than the other side but it would be completely unrealistic to expect game companys to appeal to the minority.
We have indy devs and such and modders and people who will always shake things up and create new experiences, its not all doom and gloom in pc gaming. People should be happy that they have extended knowledge of computer systems instead knocking those who don't. Using expressions like "console kids" and the like makes people sound like a kids. Pc gaming is still, even with the modern short commings still vastly superior to console gaming, fashions come and go, eventually we will see a new era of creativity and I think it is close because even the COD guys are waking up.