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P.R. agency responsible for DNF threatens reviewers...

User is offline   Hank 

#31

View PostTwig, on 16 June 2011 - 03:47 AM, said:

But some them really genuinely didn't like it. It's not their fault, you can't force it. People like different things, there's no reason to censor anybody. It's already funny that the front page just cherry-picked the positive reviews. But it's like the positive reviews are right only because the co-align with some peoples own enjoyment. I have huge respects for rockPaperShotgun and TotalBiscuit but both really didn't like DNF. But I don't think their thoughts are slanted in any way, in fact TotalBiscuit said before playing the game that DNF is day 1 purchase for him, but was let down by the gameplay after he played DNF.

Not everybody. If you think the game sucks and can define what prompted your low score, fine. But that gives you no right to start trolling every other aspect of the game with provocative statements to get your readership up.
Also, what do you expect from a fan site? A Headline listing links to trolls?
Honestly, I don't follow critics. I hit the forums and use the average of gamers to give me a feel on what a game is like. So far, excluding the extreme fan and troll the game = 6.8.

added did not see it sorry

View PostTwig, on 16 June 2011 - 03:54 AM, said:

Meaning you should only review it if you like it? Not review it because the reviewer has interest in the medium and DNF is a part of gaming medium? A good reviewer reviews everything everything the medium he or she is interested in offers. The bad reviewers are exactly the niche reviewers who review everything from one single point - just like cod-reviewers missing the iron-sight in Duke game it's also bad to judge game positively only because it has Duke in it.


Meaning do not troll. I can critic without resorting to insults.

This post has been edited by Hank: 16 June 2011 - 04:09 AM

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User is offline   Twig 

#32

View PostHank, on 16 June 2011 - 04:03 AM, said:

Also, what do you expect from a fan site? A Headline listing links to trolls?


A fan is someone who keeps an eye on something or someone because he/she likes it and wants to see more of the same kind of awesomeness. But again, blind following is not the same thing, if anything, fans should be the first ones to respond and say if it is not the same and is, in fact, inferior. And I'm not seeing much trolling going on, so far I still see mostly just negative reviews being called trolling because they are negative, not if they are valid or not.

This post has been edited by Twig: 16 June 2011 - 04:20 AM

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User is offline   Twig 

#33

View PostHank, on 16 June 2011 - 04:03 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't follow critics. I hit the forums and use the average of gamers to give me a feel on what a game is like. So far, excluding the extreme fan and troll the game = 6.8.


I haven't seen that many reviews on DNF, some, true, are too much clinging on the "it's too old-school, times have moved forward" slogan and that is just rubbish. An old but fun design still remains fun if it's done right. DNF was not a horrible game, it was not a great game either. that 6.8 is about right. It's quite an ordinary game, which in itself is depressing because for all the "it's going to be the best game ever!" spouting George did, it just mimics all gaming fads that have been hip in the DNF gaming development years and seriously hampers itself by actually borrowing some of the worst aspect of new-school gaming. It lacks ambition and plays it too safe.

I would've loved to DNF have infinite sprinting, an egosystem that would heal on only shooting, levels free to explore and npc's not blocking your way every time developers want to make sure you are watching their handiwork. And I think lots of negative reviews are just dissapointed by this fact that it doesn't feel like Duke3D much and the traces of influences are too clearly seen.

This post has been edited by Twig: 16 June 2011 - 04:21 AM

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User is offline   Hank 

#34

View PostTwig, on 16 June 2011 - 04:09 AM, said:

A fan is someone who keeps an eye on something or someone because he/she likes it and wants to see more of the same kind of awesomeness. But again, blind following is not the same thing, if anything, fans should be the first ones to respond and say if it is not the same and is, in fact, inferior. And I'm not seeing much trolling going on, so far I still see mostly just negative review being called tralling because they are negative, not if they are valid or not.

Yes. Most do. A disappointed fan is usually the sharpest critic.
There is another thread about the IGN review. In it are two other critics links. You can read those and judge for yourself. http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif
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User is offline   Twig 

#35

View PostHank, on 16 June 2011 - 04:23 AM, said:

There is another thread about the IGN review. In it are two other critics links. You can read those and judge for yourself. http://forums.duke4.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif


IGN being not a very good place to read reviews? I'm shocked! :)
But really, IGN's problem is that it has become too big and now caters to mainstream market. Which is why I get my gaming news and reviews from a page like RockPaperShotgun.com, because those British gentlemen are really pc-gamers first and their oppinions algin more often than not with mine.

IGN is just no page for me, but it does represent a big part of gaming community now. Some of them are really superficial gamers, gaming a phenomen itself is already cultivated deeply in to the culture of this generation, now there aren't jocks and nerds but gaming-jocks and gaming-nerds =D
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User is offline   Mikko 

  • Honored Donor

#36

View Postcoheed82, on 16 June 2011 - 12:49 AM, said:

I agree, the industry seems to care about profits more than genuine results in their hands that will go on to being "legends" like 3DRealms Duke3d.


Duke3D was a huge financial success, so your point is pretty moot. In fact, it was that financial success (those evil profits) that allowed them to spend (waste) over a decade working on DNF.

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Those days of great games that the developers can't wait to sell to us giving us everything we want and more than we expect are gone. Duke3d came with an editor & not to mention it had many levels, secrets including afew memorable secret levels.


If DLCs had been technically viable back then, the industry would have wasted no time adopting the concept. Instead, we got mission packs.
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User is online   TerminX 

  • el fundador

  #37

View PostHelel, on 16 June 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

Are you talking about that gay reviewer? That's just bullshit. He made one remark about women in review yet you still condemn him for disliking the game just because he's gay.


Who's parroting opinions as facts?

I'm talking about the shitty Ars Technica review and every other review that completely lacks objectivity. I'm paraphrasing here but more than one review pretty much said "if you like this game, you're dumb." It's bullshit. The Ars Technica review specifically even said things that were 100% fabricated for the sake of inciting more hatred, even going to the level of claiming that the Holsom twins beg for their lives in The Hive and that Duke is forced to shoot them to proceed. It's the exact same type of lies that were paraded as truth about Duke3D by the religious media outlets who claimed you got bonus points and items for shooting the strippers, except in this case it came from a huge site owned by the same parent company that owns Wired.

As for the gay guy, I didn't "condemn him for disliking the game just because he's gay", I merely pointed out that he isn't exactly the target audience either. It's a game about a total dick who gets more ass than anyone in the world. The whole game plays into the stereotype of the average teenage male fantasy; Duke is the stereotypical "alpha male" played to an extreme. While the average teenager spent his time wishing he could be the alpha male, I'm guessing this reviewer's teenage years involved sitting in a closet and pretending not to be gay. Call me an asshole if you want but you're lying to yourself if you think something like that wouldn't have an impact on how the game is perceived. If someone is completely unable to relate to the character in any way, of course they aren't going to think the character (and his entire universe which is portrayed in the same way) is funny.
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#38

The Duke-Bashing got way overboard and pretty much every reviewer jumped on it and forgot everything about trying to do a fair review. Pretty much everyone reviewed this game as if they expected it to be the second-coming of Jesus, but they've failed to notice that DNF had the most troubled development cycle ever in videogame history, so they've had to review it accordingly, which they didn't.
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User is offline   Twig 

#39

View Post3rdmillhouse, on 16 June 2011 - 07:16 AM, said:

The Duke-Bashing got way overboard and pretty much every reviewer jumped on it and forgot everything about trying to do a fair review. Pretty much everyone reviewed this game as if they expected it to be the second-coming of Jesus, but they've failed to notice that DNF had the most troubled development cycle ever in videogame history, so they've had to review it accordingly, which they didn't.


And COD is made because publishers demand the same gameplay that made the previous one popular. So let's condemn every review that says cod is too scritped, linear and samey. Because they haven't understood the poor developers, and we should still give them applause for a nonexistent merit because in a perfect world it would've been good. And we must judge according to that, not the final product.

This post has been edited by Twig: 16 June 2011 - 07:31 AM

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User is offline   Splat 

  • Eat Shit and...

  #40

Balls of steel award goes to Redner Group for that tweet. :)

http://www.redsplat.net/ballssteel.png
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User is offline   Jhect 

#41

I can nearly feel that hand on my balls.
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User is offline   Ronin 

#42

View PostTX, on 16 June 2011 - 05:55 AM, said:


As for the gay guy, I didn't "condemn him for disliking the game just because he's gay", I merely pointed out that he isn't exactly the target audience either. It's a game about a total dick who gets more ass than anyone in the world. The whole game plays into the stereotype of the average teenage male fantasy; Duke is the stereotypical "alpha male" played to an extreme. While the average teenager spent his time wishing he could be the alpha male, I'm guessing this reviewer's teenage years involved sitting in a closet and pretending not to be gay. Call me an asshole if you want but you're lying to yourself if you think something like that wouldn't have an impact on how the game is perceived. If someone is completely unable to relate to the character in any way, of course they aren't going to think the character (and his entire universe which is portrayed in the same way) is funny.

Its certainly possible that the Duke character is simply just too badass for some people to accept. I did notice in a couple or reviews that the reviewer seems to hate Duke Nukem himself, saying things like "he comes off as a sick psycopath" and "who does he think he is slagging Halo and other superior games" not to mention "outdated character with no place in modern gaming".

This post has been edited by Ripemanewone: 16 June 2011 - 02:03 PM

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User is offline   LDraco 

#43

First off, let's get this out of the way: who took my name? There is only one Draco when it comes to 3DR, and that's me. :)

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 01:07 PM, said:

I did notice in a couple or reviews that the reviewer seem to hate Duke Nukem himself, saying things "he comes off as a sick psychopath" and "who does he think he is slagging Halo on other superior games" not to mention "outdated character with no place in modern gaming".


Can I ask why you're saying that the reviewer is "hating" on Duke Nukem himself? Your next sentence is a clear and concise explanation of the issues that a lot of reviewers and players have had with the character. It's not that people are afraid of someone being "so badass", its that what we're supposed to take on faith (Duke is a Badass Sex God Warrior Guy) isn't reflected in the actual gameplay. To regain health? Run away. Save women? Nope, they got all preg, make joke and then kill em.

It's 2011. One of the more iconic examples of a modern Badass Game Character doesn't even have sex. Doesn't even think about it, because that's not his job.

This post has been edited by LDraco: 16 June 2011 - 01:46 PM

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User is offline   Klapher 

#44

View PostJhect, on 16 June 2011 - 12:17 PM, said:

I can nearly feel that hand on my balls.

You are a gay idiot haha.

P.R agency need to take a shit on magazines for giving dnf 2 and 3.
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User is offline   Ronin 

#45

View PostLDraco, on 16 June 2011 - 01:37 PM, said:

First off, let's get this out of the way: who took my name? There is only one Draco when it comes to 3DR, and that's me. :)



Can I ask why you're saying that the reviewer is "hating" on Duke Nukem himself? Your next sentence is a clear and concise explanation of the issues that a lot of reviewers and players have had with the character. It's not that people are afraid of someone being "so badass", its that what we're supposed to take on faith (Duke is a Badass Sex God Warrior Guy) isn't reflected in the actual gameplay. To regain health? Run away. Save women? Nope, they got all preg, make joke and then kill em.

It's 2011. One of the more iconic examples of a modern Badass Game Character doesn't even have sex. Doesn't even think about it, because that's not his job.

Well now that all depend on how you play, you dont have to hide behind pillers and rocks all the time, you get rewarded for going Rambo by getting full health when you excute an enemy. So even though your under fire you still run through the crossfire to kick a Pig-Cops head off, thats badassery. Duke is funny and offencive, thats the way I like him to be even though I was kind of creeped out by The Hive level, but I like that its there its a serious mood changer.

Not liking a character is not a good enough reason to hate a game, I played GTA San Andreas even though the main character pissed me off because I hate that hip-hop gang culture bullshit. Im just saying that there seems to be a lot of hate for Duke as a character, you cant possibly believe that DNF deservers a 3? There must be something more than the gameplay, graphics, "story" ect to generate that kind of discust from these reviewers, it almost sounds personal.

I dont care too much about the bad reviews, but they are very suprising and anyone else who enjoyed the game will be thinking the same thing. It doesnt make sense.

What does it matter tha Master Chief doesnt like to get his rocks off, how does that make you badass?, He is a boring character and generic.

This post has been edited by Ripemanewone: 16 June 2011 - 02:22 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#46

I like how other forums are mocking you guys for defending the Redner Group's bullshit with blacklisting websites. If there's one thing DNF did right is expose the hypocrisy in every corner of the video game industry. From the developers to publishers to reviewers to PR companies to the fans themselves.
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User is offline   LDraco 

#47

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

So even though you're under fire you still run through the crossfire to kick a Pig-Cops head off, that's badassery.


I'm not going to dispute your subjective opinion of badassery, so I'll respond by asking a question: Given that Duke Nukem's form of badassery is approximately twenty years old, and most gamers have grown up on different types of Badass, how did you expect people to react?

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

Duke is funny and offensive, that's the way I like him to be


That's fine, but surely you can understand why a significant percentage of reviewers and players have found the game's humor to be so offensive it was uncomfortable and unfun. There's a meta component to it: someone wrote the jokes and the point is for us to find it funny.

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

Not liking a character is not a good enough reason to hate a game


Did you play the same game as I did? The game is covered in messages that we should intend to not only like Duke, but worship him. We see women wanting to throw themselves at him, we see men fainting around him, we see children begging for autographs. Given this setting, and the character winds up being seen as not likable, why wouldn't you take that into consideration?

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

, I played GTA San Andreas even though the main character pissed me off because I hate that hip-hop gang culture bullshit.


The difference being, is that none of the GTA games ever portray the characters as likable people. Vice City makes it regularly clear that Tommy Vercetti is not a likable guy. SA makes it clear that CJ is a common street thug who, for all his talk, is a common street thug. Niko Bellic tells people in-game that for all his desires to be free of his former violence-and-crime filled life, he knows he'll never have it. The moment he does begin to think it, one of his loved ones dies as a result of his actions.

Contrast with Duke, who spends a significant percentage of its playtime trying very hard to convince you that Duke is one Bad Ass Warrior Man Who Defines Himself By Large Muscles And Screwing Chicks. In 2011, this isn't the kind of character that your general audience finds impressive. It's the kind of character that people don't like.

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

I'm just saying that there seems to be a lot of hate for Duke as a character, you can't possibly believe that DNF deserves a 3?


DNF's average MetaCritic score is 54, so a 3/10 is a low outlier, but nothing drastically so.

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

There must be something more than the gameplay, graphics, "story" etc.to generate that kind of disgust from these reviewers, it almost sounds personal.


Don't go down the route of conspiracy. The game isn't well liked, for many reasons, and the scores reflect that. There's not some international review cabal behind making DNF's scores drop so low. The way people have naturally reacted to it has done that. If I may be so bold, I would argue that you are taking the Personal route with this. A game you're very fond of, and a character you're very fond of, is being absolutely shellacked.

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

I don't care too much about the bad reviews, but they are very surprising and anyone else who enjoyed the game will be thinking the same thing. It doesn't make sense.


It makes perfect sense. They are surprising to people who enjoyed the game. The ratings are not surprising for anyone who doesn't enjoy the game.

View PostRipemanewone, on 16 June 2011 - 02:17 PM, said:

What does it matter thatMaster Chief doesn't like to get his rocks off, how does that make you badass?


Not to turn this into a Duke Vs MC argument, but John is a relatively-quiet soldier whose actions, not his words, justify the way the people in the universe respect him. He was integral to a war effort, but consistently considered himself simply one soldier among many, and many of his successes were on the back of other's efforts. The only monument to John's abilities is a simple 117 scrawled into a memorial.

EDIT: cleaned up some tags.

This post has been edited by LDraco: 16 June 2011 - 03:21 PM

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User is offline   Ronin 

#48

lol :)

This post has been edited by Ripemanewone: 16 June 2011 - 03:26 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#49

View PostTX, on 16 June 2011 - 05:55 AM, said:

While the average teenager spent his time wishing he could be the alpha male, I'm guessing this reviewer's teenage years involved sitting in a closet and pretending not to be gay.


Wow...just...wow. If one of the mods/admins at the Gearbox forums said that he'd be out of there so fast. If one of the forumgoers posted that he'd be banned without any warning. Yet you get +rep for saying it. I dare you to make that comment anywhere else without your admin powers. If the Gamespot reviewer wrote that article in the context of him being a "gay gamer" and listed reasons why gays would hate it, then you'd be right. But he didn't, which makes you come off as far more mean-spirited than you claim the reviewers to be.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 16 June 2011 - 05:39 PM

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#50

View PostLDraco, on 16 June 2011 - 03:17 PM, said:




Damn, replying to every sentence he said is just like raping his post.
I've read your post and i think you misunderstood Duke Nukem Forever.

First of all, you have to understand that Duke Nukem is a fictional character, his world is his world, you can't compare it to our world, it's a video game.

Second of all, i think you misunderstood the Duke Nukem character, he represents a macho from 80's action movies, his comedy is nothing meant to be like comedians you see on tv.
One time he makes fun of himself, the other time he makes fun of other character of other known video games.
This game was clearly meant to be for the fans that wanted a sequel to Duke Nukem 3D, it was never meant to be like CoD, Battlefield or Halo.
It's a standalone game, only Duketards understand his humor, his world and Duke Nukem.

You shouldn't compare Duke Nukem to other video game characters, that's really the last thing you should do.

Also, don't you ever wonder why the Call of Duty games are always praised by reviewers, even though it is the same game every year except for the levels, weapons and characters ?
If one FPS doesn't follow the footsteps of Call of Duty, they are immediately stomped into the ground.

This post has been edited by themaniacboy: 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM

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User is offline   LDraco 

#51

View PostMad Max RW, on 16 June 2011 - 05:34 PM, said:

Wow...just...wow. If one of the mods/admins at the Gearbox forums said that he'd be out of there so fast. If one of the forumgoers posted that he'd be banned without any warning. Yet you get +rep for saying it. I dare you to make that comment anywhere else without your admin powers. If the Gamespot reviewer wrote that article in the context of him being a "gay gamer" and listed reasons why gays would hate it, then you'd be right. But he didn't, which makes you come off as far more mean-spirited than you claim the reviewers to be.


He posted it on Something Awful and was probated (unable to post) for violating basic forum rules. He has yet to return; I'm saddened. I miss ol' TerminX.

View Postthemaniacboy, on 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

I've read your post and i think you misunderstood Duke Nukem Forever.


I correctly understand Duke Nukem Forever. It's a drastically sub-par game with with across-the-board poor scores, based on an unlikable protagonist, unfunny (and awkwardly uncomfortable jokes) and poor gameplay and pacing issues.

View Postthemaniacboy, on 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

Second of all, i think you misunderstood the Duke Nukem character, he represents a macho from 80's action movies


Perhaps you should reread my post, as I cover this. Are you cognizant of how outdated the Macho From 80s Action Movie is to your audience in 2011? How it is a source of mockery? The trope was on its way out in the age of Duke 3D; it's dead now.

Were you unaware that The Expendables performed extremely poorly? That Rambo did fairly poorly as well? How could you, or a developer, believe that reveling in said concept would resonate with reviewers and gamers? Did they believe that if we walked through levels which screamed DUKE IS TOTALLY AWESOME AND EVERYONE LOVES HIM, we would?

I bring this up because you, like the earlier poster, are confused that the comments across-the-board have Duke as unlikable. I'd be confused if he wasn't considered likable. Gaming, and the people that play it, have grown up. Kids that preordered DNF have gone through grade school, high school, college, got a career, married, and now have kids of their own.

View Postthemaniacboy, on 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

One time he makes fun of himself, the other time he makes fun of other character of other known video games.


In DNF's case, he's making fun of games which have higher commercial and critical success than his own. Are you aware of the term "don't reference a better movie in your own movie"?

View Postthemaniacboy, on 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

This game was clearly meant to be for the fans that wanted a sequel to Duke Nukem 3D, it was never meant to be like CoD, Battlefield or Halo.


How can you rationalize this statement with large amounts of cutscenes, regenerating-through-hiding health, and a limited weapon loadout style which forces players to choose between two guns? One of the most consistent criticisms of DNF is that it tries to be a throwback to a bygone age of gaming, yet latched onto so many modern gaming traits that it doesn't know what to do?

View Postthemaniacboy, on 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

It's a standalone game, only Duketards understand his humor, his world and Duke Nukem.


I disagree; I think a lot of people understand the humor that was intended, but found it unfunny and downright offensive. The poor critical and user ratings bear this out.

View Postthemaniacboy, on 16 June 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

If one FPS doesn't follow the footsteps of Call of Duty, they are immediately stomped into the ground.


As DNF has, critically.

This post has been edited by LDraco: 16 June 2011 - 06:27 PM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#52

View PostMad Max RW, on 16 June 2011 - 03:08 PM, said:

I like how other forums are mocking you guys for defending the Redner Group's bullshit with blacklisting websites.

Give us some links please. I want to read that. :D

View PostMad Max RW, on 16 June 2011 - 05:34 PM, said:

Wow...just...wow. If one of the mods/admins at the Gearbox forums said that he'd be out of there so fast. If one of the forumgoers posted that he'd be banned without any warning. Yet you get +rep for saying it. I dare you to make that comment anywhere else without your admin powers. If the Gamespot reviewer wrote that article in the context of him being a "gay gamer" and listed reasons why gays would hate it, then you'd be right. But he didn't, which makes you come off as far more mean-spirited than you claim the reviewers to be.

No-no. The only explanation to this bad review is him being gay. I mean, straight guys wouldn't give DNF a negative review. Thus ALL THOSE REVIEWERS ARE FUCKING FAGGOTS. Call me an asshole, but that's just the way it is because only people who are still siting in the closet can't understand this game being every male's fantasy. They aren't even males strictly speaking.

:)
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User is offline   Twig 

#53

View PostHelel, on 16 June 2011 - 08:44 PM, said:

Give us some links please. I want to read that. :D


No-no. The only explanation to this bad review is him being gay. I mean, straight guys wouldn't give DNF a negative review. Thus ALL THOSE REVIEWERS ARE FUCKING FAGGOTS. Call me an asshole, but that's just the way it is because only people who are still siting in the closet can't understand this game being every male's fantasy. They aren't even males strictly speaking.

:)


Not wanting to be a caveman thug equals bein gay? But ofcourse, world is black and white, where men are men, women are women, throwing themselves at mens and gays are just there in their corner to be sneered at. FU, the world is so much more a diverse place then you make it out to be. It's not a common male fantasy but a common fantasy of a immature twelve year old. If you still long for days of your boyhood and facing the hardships of being a responsible adult man is too much for you, then that's your personal tragedy, no reason to abuse other people for having their own oppinion.

edit: dammit,failed to see the rolling eyes smiley :D Ok, but the sad thing is that some people here really think so :/

This post has been edited by Twig: 16 June 2011 - 09:19 PM

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User is offline   Kathy 

#54

View PostTX, on 16 June 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

I read the review, Googled the guy's name, saw that he was very openly gay and made the honestly rather valid assumption that he probably got picked on by the "alpha male" type of person a lot in school (as most anyone who is different is, unfortunately) and that it could have a legitimate effect on whether or not he finds humor in or "gets" that type of character.

Your assumptions go way too deep. Are we really going to question some reviews because reviewer in the past might have some problems with being picked on by at school?

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It's not some sort of mean-spirited attack on gay people--who most of the time are nicer than the average person and much more open to treating others who are different with respect due to being disrespected themselves so much on an almost daily basis--but rather just commentary on how upbringing and life experiences can have an effect on one's resulting opinions. People who grow up in the ghetto constantly being harassed by police tend to dislike police figures their entire lives, even in the context of media. I find it perfectly plausible that similar harassment by any other certain type of figure would elicit the same response, even in the context of media.

That is true. That is the reason why reviews are a subjective matter. Because people have different past and different perception towards various things. Yet you've just picked gay guy even when his review criticize way more than just a "character".

Btw, he gave Witcher 2 9/10. Isn't Geralt also have a thing towards lots of women? I've played the first one only, though. And DA2 has a less 8/10 from him when player, as I've heard, can have several possible gay relations. Shouldn't he gave it 10/10? You can't just slap the sticker "gay review" on his DNF contribution when there is no pattern with his other reviews and his points about the game not that different from other reviews.

Quote

Hell, many of his points about the game are really perfectly valid criticisms, they're just things that a lot of people can glaze over, again, because they like the character or are able to "get" the humor.

That's the thing. Reviewers shouldn't glaze over the gameplay, level design etc. just because they like the character(Duke Nukem). And he didn't. For whatever reasons actually.

This post has been edited by Helel: 16 June 2011 - 11:35 PM

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User is offline   Twig 

#55

View PostTX, on 16 June 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

I read the review, Googled the guy's name, saw that he was very openly gay and made the honestly rather valid assumption that he probably got picked on by the "alpha male" type of person a lot in school (as most anyone who is different is, unfortunately) and that it could have a legitimate effect on whether or not he finds humor in or "gets" that type of character.


So only a person who picks on other for being different "gets" Duke?

View PostTX, on 16 June 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:


Anyway, I'm sorry if some of you are gay and I offended you by not just fleshing out what I was saying in the first place.


Ofcourse, if I don't like the fact that you call persons who didn't like Duke gay, then I must be a gay myself. Because not liking putting some people in a vast group and denying their individuality for their oppinion - unheard of! No way I can't be straight if I can defend gay people, because we are not all individual and all different humans but just groups that must have the 'us or them' mentality. The herd mentality.

And The Hive really was serious lapse of taste. "You're fucked!" Really?
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User is online   TerminX 

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  #56

View PostHelel, on 16 June 2011 - 11:34 PM, said:

Your assumptions go way too deep. Are we really going to question some reviews because reviewer in the past might have some problems with being picked on by at school?

What, there's something wrong with wondering why someone vehemently hates something you enjoy?

Quote

That is true. That is the reason why reviews are a subjective matter. Because people have different past and different perception towards various things. Yet you've just picked gay guy even when his review criticize way more than just a "character".

That's exactly my point. Reviews should be objective, not subjective. I picked "gay guy" because he happened to be the guy that decided a huge site's rating of the game would be 3.5 based on his clearly rather strong personal opinions. If a reviewer can't be objective enough to at least separate their existing beliefs and opinions from the product they're reviewing they don't really have any business trying to influence others by writing the review in the first place.

For example, saying the graphics in DNF are dated is rather objective because it's simply a factual statement--most of the content is from a few years ago. In contrast, saying the game completely sucks ass because you personally hate raunchy humor and over the top characters is a very subjective comment to be making and the kind of thing that shouldn't even be part of a "professional" review that is intended in some way to guide a mass amount of people who will all have wildly differing opinions. I think a "review" should be just that: an informative overview of something's contents, not a listing of all the things some guy somewhere hates about it. It might help if some of these reviews on big sites were done by several people who all compared and combined their personal scores... like Metacritic but with a predetermined scale. I seem to recall this being pretty common in some of the gaming mags of the 90's and I have no idea why it's not done everywhere. There's a reason you don't tend to see contests and the like with a single judge.

Don't get me wrong, giving DNF a 10/10 just because someone already liked previous Duke games would be just as big a load of shit as giving it 3.5. That kind of crap belongs in blog postings, not on mainstream sites.


View PostTwig, on 16 June 2011 - 11:52 PM, said:

So only a person who picks on other for being different "gets" Duke?



Ofcourse, if I don't like the fact that you call persons who didn't like Duke gay, then I must be a gay myself. Because not liking putting some people in a vast group and denying their individuality for their oppinion - unheard of! No way I can't be straight if I can defend gay people, because we are not all individual and all different humans but just groups that must have the 'us or them' mentality. The herd mentality.

It's almost not even worth wasting my time replying to this because you're clearly just taking whatever meaning you want to take out of what I write instead of reading and comprehending what I clearly stated the meaning behind my words was. Oh well. Seriously, what you're saying is so far from anything I'm thinking that it's not even funny. I'm actually kind of speechless and REALLY not sure how you came to the conclusion that I think anyone who doesn't like Duke is gay and that if you don't like it you must be gay yourself. Wow.
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User is offline   Kathy 

#57

View PostTX, on 17 June 2011 - 12:12 AM, said:

What, there's something wrong with wondering why someone vehemently hates something you enjoy?

You've made lousy assumptions about school etc. You don't know whether or not he had those.

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That's exactly my point. Reviews should be objective, not subjective. I picked "gay guy" because he happened to be the guy that decided a huge site's rating of the game would be 3.5 based on his clearly rather strong personal opinions. If a reviewer can't be objective enough to at least separate their existing beliefs and opinions from the product they're reviewing they don't really have any business trying to influence others by writing the review in the first place.

I don't know whether reviews can be objective. Maybe only from the technical standpoint. But it was not a technical review of the game.

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I seem to recall this being pretty common in some of the gaming mags of the 90's and I have no idea why it's not done everywhere.

Yep. Because saying "PC Gamer rated it 80 and Destructoid gave 2/10" sounds wrong since it was Dan and Jim who gave those ratings, not the site's review staff itself.
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User is online   TerminX 

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  #58

They might be lousy assumptions to you, but they pretty much reflect the status quo and paint an unfortunately accurate picture of how things tend to go. It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that the kind of horrible treatment by assholes that happened to the other 99.9% of gays happened to this guy too. Just as an example, even today for every one gay kid who gets to be prom king or prom queen, there are 100 schools that would rather cancel it altogether than even let someone with a date of the same sex attend... and this guy grew up something like 20 years ago if I'm remembering the brief bit of information I read on him correctly.

It's total bullshit how these guys get treated but that's neither here nor there as it's not really the subject of this thread and this is getting WAY off topic.
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User is offline   Twig 

#59

View PostTX, on 17 June 2011 - 12:12 AM, said:

It's almost not even worth wasting my time replying to this because you're clearly just taking whatever meaning you want to take out of what I write instead of reading and comprehending what I clearly stated the meaning behind my words was. Oh well. Seriously, what you're saying is so far from anything I'm thinking that it's not even funny. I'm actually kind of speechless and REALLY not sure how you came to the conclusion that I think anyone who doesn't like Duke is gay and that if you don't like it you must be gay yourself. Wow.


http://imgur.com/B6BYY
Judge yourself. Not only you assume that being gay would the reason he didn't like it (not that he didn't like the gameplay, regardless of his sexuality), but you assume that being a gay male is exactly the same thing as being a woman. I'm not saying that you think anybody who doesn't like Duke is gay, what you did say, was that bein ggay was the reason he didn't like Duke, invalidating his oppinion and saying "He doesn't like it only because of his sexuality, no reason to take his oppinions seriously."

The point is that his sexuality doesn't matter. And when it was brought up, you said "Anyway, I'm sorry if some of you are gay and I offended you by not just fleshing out what I was saying in the first place." implying the only reason for anybody to calling you out on using the gay-card as something that invalidates, is that he is a gay himself. I'm straight but I was still offended by claim that he can't like Duke, because he's gay! I say, sexuality doesn't matter, just like race or ethnicity, it doesn't mean that every one who belong to this or that group inherently has the same attributes. It's wrong to assume anything of someone only because he is gay, or black, or white, or short, or skinny, or anything. People are completely unique and everyone should be considered on their unique differences, not put in a group.
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User is offline   X-Vector 

#60

View PostTX, on 16 June 2011 - 10:24 PM, said:

I hope my explanation makes sense to you guys and you can see that I'm not just being some bigot asshole.


You're the one snidely equating homosexual males with women: http://forums.duke4....dpost__p__95385
Any way you slice it, playing armchair pschycologist by inferring a hidden agenda based on a feeble assumption rather than discussing a reviewer's arguments is asinine.

Not only that, but there's this quote from the GS review:

Quote

You might hope that Duke could at least pep up the proceedings with some trademark raunch--maybe a bit of nudity, some misogynistic humor, and the occasional wagging of a middle finger. You get all of these things, but Duke Nukem Forever's attempts to recapture that old filthy magic aren't funny--just sad. About halfway through, Duke makes a pit stop to visit his strip club. This is the least sexy strip club you could imagine, because there's no stripping, though you do receive a lewd proposal: a lady friend offers a lap dance if you find her three objects, including a battery-powered device designed for her pleasure. And so your visit to a strip club is characterized not by a rush of sexual energy or a ridiculous riff on Duke's sexism, but by a fetch quest. One that involves popping popcorn in a microwave oven. Really.


If anything, big gay Mr. Gamespot reviewer complaint is that there's not enough (hetero-)sexual tension.
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