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Lower quality textures in full game than demo? (PC)

User is offline   viper3885 

#1

So I thought I noticed that the textures in the full game seemed lacking compared to the demo. I went and loaded up the demo and surely enough there's a fairly large difference between the texture quality with the demo being quite noticably better. I also saw the comparison video and screenshots on eurogamer.net between the consoles and pc and noticed that the pc version's textures looked worse. Is it like this for you guys to? If so, I hope there's a fix for it.
EDIT: Also, I'd like to note that I've turned on and off all the different video options and they don't make a difference. I've also loaded the game up on two different computers with the same results.

Full game:
http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9224/fullgame1.jpg
Demo:
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/4043/demo1dn.jpg

Full game:
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5700/fullgame2.jpg
Demo:
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9679/demo2n.jpg

Full game:
http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/7619/fullgame3.jpg
Demo:
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5762/demo3x.jpg

This post has been edited by viper3885: 14 June 2011 - 02:32 PM

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User is offline   Sebastian 

#2

It just looks like you switched off all the post processing filters to me. Can you show pictures of the same areas with the same video settings instead?
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#3

Absolutely not! All I see different from those pictures is that Demo uses post processing while in the full game you have it turned off.
Now that you have updated the pictures, I can clearly see differences in textures for the character models.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 14 June 2011 - 04:39 PM

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User is offline   viper3885 

#4

View PostSebastian, on 14 June 2011 - 01:39 PM, said:

It just looks like you switched off all the post processing filters to me. Can you show pictures of the same areas with the same video settings instead?


Edited the demo pics in my first post. Sorry, I forgot I had post processing turned off in the demo. As you can see it still makes no difference, I have all the effects on in both versions and all the settings maxed on both. You can notice a big difference on Duke's model in the third pic and also the difference in quality of the cycloid emperor's textures.

This post has been edited by viper3885: 14 June 2011 - 01:53 PM

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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#5

I think it's VERY hard to tell a difference in those screenshots. The cycloid emperor is too far away, and as for Duke, the lightling seems slightly different as his clothing and arms cast more shadows on themselves.
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User is offline   viper3885 

#6

View PostMicky C, on 14 June 2011 - 02:31 PM, said:

I think it's VERY hard to tell a difference in those screenshots. The cycloid emperor is too far away, and as for Duke, the lightling seems slightly different as his clothing and arms cast more shadows on themselves.


The first pic is hard to tell the difference, I agree. But I edited my post again so that the same screen shots are right next to each other. Look at pic 2 and 3 of both versions and there's clearly a good sized difference in the quality of the character textures, especially in the upper body of both models.

This post has been edited by viper3885: 14 June 2011 - 02:36 PM

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User is offline   Mad Max RW 

#7

The only one I can really notice the difference is the back of Duke's arms. You can clearly see the veins and muscles in the demo pic, while in the retail shot his arms are very smooth. Same with the pants. There's definitely an issue with the normal mapping.

This post has been edited by Mad Max RW: 14 June 2011 - 03:24 PM

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#8

View Postviper3885, on 14 June 2011 - 01:51 PM, said:

Edited the demo pics in my first post. Sorry, I forgot I had post processing turned off in the demo. As you can see it still makes no difference, I have all the effects on in both versions and all the settings maxed on both. You can notice a big difference on Duke's model in the third pic and also the difference in quality of the cycloid emperor's textures.

Yeah, now I can see a huge difference in Duke's texture quality.
It's outrageous how in the Demo you could see his veins and his muscle fiber while now you can't see shit anymore.
I am not sure why did you decide to compare textures with post processing turned on in both versions of the game.
If you want a pure texture comparison, go and disable all 3 check boxes, disable motion blur, noise and post processing and then compare the pictures.
If the pictures still show a difference in textures, then one of the versions either has texture compression enabled to a higher extent or the anisotropic filtering or texture lod are different for optimization purposes.
If you look at the pax demo screenshots, you will realize that the demo and the full version's graphics have been greatly reduced for the purpose of optimizations.
The pax demo looked at least 10% better than the final game, which is sad to know but that's life...
In the pax demo you can see more and better quality shadows, more dynamic light sources and there was even water in those 2 square bathtubs/jacuzzis from behind the toilet where you start the game while in the demo and the full game there is no more water in them...

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 14 June 2011 - 03:31 PM

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User is offline   viper3885 

#9

View PostMr.Deviance, on 14 June 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

Yeah, now I can see a huge difference in Duke's texture quality.
It's outrageous how in the Demo you could see his veins and his muscle fiber while now you can't see shit anymore.
I am not sure why did you decide to compare textures with post processing turned on in both versions of the game.
If you want a pure texture comparison, go and disable all 3 check boxes, disable motion blur, noise and post processing and then compare the pictures.
If the pictures still show a difference in textures, then one of the versions either has texture compression enabled to a higher extent or the anisotropic filtering or texture lod are different for optimization purposes.
If you look at the pax demo screenshots, you will realize that the demo and the full version's graphics have been greatly reduced for the purpose of optimizations.
The pax demo looked at least 10% better than the final game, which is sad to know but that's life...
In the pax demo you can see more and better quality shadows, more dynamic light sources and there was even water in those 2 square bathtubs/jacuzzis from behind the toilet where you start the game while in the demo and the full game there is no more water in them...


Well I've tried with post processing on and off as well as other settings on and off, all yield the same result. The character textures in the demo are just much higher quality. I have a hard time believing they deliberately made the quality worse because I also have the full game on 360 and Duke's character model and textures as well as the Cycloid Emperor's model and textures are the same quality as the PC demo.

This post has been edited by viper3885: 14 June 2011 - 03:39 PM

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#10

View Postviper3885, on 14 June 2011 - 03:38 PM, said:

Well I've tried with post processing on and off as well as other settings on and off, all yield the same result. The character textures in the demo are just much higher quality. I have a hard time believing they deliberately made the quality worse because I also have the full game on 360 and Duke's character model and textures as well as the Cycloid Emperor's model and textures are the same quality as the PC demo.

I don't know what the fuck they are doing man, I am about to give up on trying to understand wtf is in their heads...
Everything seems to be fucked up and broken about this game.
Too bad that a game with so many great ideas and mechanisms suffers from such rushed execution.
Each time I watch one of the pax demos or Jace Hall clips, I face palm at how much shit used to work back then compared the full game release.
Bullet holes in npc's only show up if you shoot their necks after you've beheaded them and the blood decals and some dynamic shadows are said to only show up on some textures while not showing in others...
It's messed up. If we get some sdk or something, then we could fix them I guess.

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 14 June 2011 - 04:12 PM

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User is offline   viper3885 

#11

View PostMr.Deviance, on 14 June 2011 - 03:50 PM, said:

I don't know what the fuck they are doing man, I am about to give up on trying to understand wtf is in their heads...
Everything seems to be fucked up and broken about this game.
Too bad that a game with so many great ideas and mechanisms suffers from such rushed execution.
Each time I watch one of the pax demos or Jace Hall clips, I face palm at how much shit used to work back then compared the full game release.


Hopefully some mods will come out for this game in the near future, like getting rid of the 2 weapon limit. I would love to be able to put the original 3d realms duke model in the game as well. After watching the 2009 trailer, that model looks so much better. Anyway, here's to hoping that a patch or fix or something comes out for the textures, because IMO the game wasn't all that bad looking with the demo textures.

This post has been edited by viper3885: 14 June 2011 - 04:06 PM

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User is offline   randir14 

#12

Yeah now that you mention it...when I played the full version I noticed the Cycloid looked blurry. Wtf?
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User is offline   ReaperMan 

#13

The lower quality textures could be due to compressing the game down. However, some of this looks like they just changed the lighting effects.
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User is offline   Klapher 

#14

Wow, what the hell... Duke Nukem's back and arms look so smooth and lack hundreds of details now...
This is not good at all...............................
-3

#15

View PostKlapher, on 14 June 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

Wow, what the hell... Duke Nukem's back and arms look so smooth and lack hundreds of details now...
This is not good at all...............................

Are you being serious or ironic with that statement?
I hope you realize that Duke's back is not the only area of Duke or of DNF's characters that lacks those details.
I agree that it's not something to get obsessed over but it just proves the point of the op and yet again shows that gearbox reduced the quality of the graphics a bit more.
For ex. the quality of the graphics was slightly higher in the 2010 pax videos than in the FAC demo and the first level had more light sources and even had water in those 2 bathtubs from behind Duke when you first start the game.
As they've gotten closer to releasing the final game, it seems they've gradually cut finer details and traded finer details for performance...
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User is offline   viper3885 

#16

View PostReaperMan, on 14 June 2011 - 05:01 PM, said:

The lower quality textures could be due to compressing the game down. However, some of this looks like they just changed the lighting effects.


It may be the bump mapping. I actually replaced some of the files in the textures/compiled folder of the full game with the demo version (bumpmapdirectory.dat, bumpmaps000.dat-003.dat) and then viola you have the high quality version of duke. Unfortunately a whole slew of other textures that are only in the full game and not the demo look extremely low quality after doing so. Now if there were a way to break down those .dat files and inject only certain files from the demo into the full games texture .dat's.

This post has been edited by viper3885: 14 June 2011 - 05:34 PM

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User is offline   viper3885 

#17

View PostKlapher, on 14 June 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

Wow, what the hell... Duke Nukem's back and arms look so smooth and lack hundreds of details now...
This is not good at all...............................


It's not just Duke's character model, it's pretty much every model in the game. I also noticed it with the pigcop's model. But the pics I posted were just a quick comparison to show that they either lowered the quality of the bump mapping from the demo or this is just a possible bug that isn't truly enabling the "ultra" texture/lighting setting in the game (hopefully it is a bug or something that will be fixed seeing as the console versions of the game still retain the higher quality textures/bump mapping/whatever it is).
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User is offline   randir14 

#18

View Postviper3885, on 14 June 2011 - 05:33 PM, said:

It's not just Duke's character model, it's pretty much every model in the game. I also noticed it with the pigcop's model. But the pics I posted were just a quick comparison to show that they either lowered the quality of the bump mapping from the demo or this is just a possible bug that isn't truly enabling the "ultra" texture/lighting setting in the game (hopefully it is a bug or something that will be fixed seeing as the console versions of the game still retain the higher quality textures/bump mapping/whatever it is).


Wait...how do you know this? Are you saying the console versions have better textures than the PC?
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User is offline   viper3885 

#19

For the character models the consoles do. I have the full game on 360 and PC. That's where it ends though all the other graphics are definitely better on PC besides character models. Check out eurogamer.net they have comparison pics and videos between the versions.
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User is offline   randir14 

#20

Wow, what the hell. Yeah hopefully they fix that in a patch.
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User is offline   Namssorg 

#21

Interesting. I just saw another thread where someone was complaining about the bumpmaps in the demo being higher quality than in the final game. They'll probably fix that in an update.

... I really love playing games on consoles, but man. There's no way in hell I was going to play a game that had 12 years of development intended for PC on a console. I did try the PC demo with a 360 controller though. Felt nice!

View Postrandir14, on 14 June 2011 - 06:26 PM, said:

Wow, what the hell. Yeah hopefully they fix that in a patch.

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User is offline   DavoX 

  • Honored Donor

#22

How on earth did you get the EXACT SAME ANGLE on two different programs? I call bullshit on this one.

Also were is the goddamned demo? it just dissapeared from my PC.

This post has been edited by DavoX: 14 June 2011 - 09:40 PM

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User is offline   VinsaneOne 

#23

View Postviper3885, on 14 June 2011 - 05:27 PM, said:

It may be the bump mapping. I actually replaced some of the files in the textures/compiled folder of the full game with the demo version (bumpmapdirectory.dat, bumpmaps000.dat-003.dat) and then viola you have the high quality version of duke. Unfortunately a whole slew of other textures that are only in the full game and not the demo look extremely low quality after doing so. Now if there were a way to break down those .dat files and inject only certain files from the demo into the full games texture .dat's.

You might be on to something and could get the console working as well. But, and it's a big one...that dark Cloud still over our heads on Steam. The files won't match though I've read you can work around that. Also raises the question if you can intergrate the demo files with the full game, what would you load it to run as, 'demo' or the 'full' game? Think maybe that cloud will be so confused trying to load what would end up being 'DNFFGD' (dnf full game demo), it throws down a bolt of lightining and the game crashes with a clap of thunder!
It might take some time, but I'm sure someone here will find a way. Always bet on Duke's Community! :D

@Davox:How on earth did you get the EXACT SAME ANGLE on two different programs? I call bullshit on this one.

It's not. Look where the mirror frame is next to Duke's right arm, they're in different places.

This post has been edited by VinsaneOne: 14 June 2011 - 09:52 PM

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User is offline   Stabs 

#24

converge on GBX forums boys

give them fucking hell for this incompetence
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#25

View PostDavoX, on 14 June 2011 - 09:38 PM, said:

How on earth did you get the EXACT SAME ANGLE on two different programs? I call bullshit on this one.

Also were is the goddamned demo? it just dissapeared from my PC.

I've made the same tests. It takes lots of time and patience but you can do it.
Check my topic about bumpmaps being raped and you will see some interesting comparison animations made by me, to showcase the damage that was done to the bumpmaps in the full game...
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User is offline   Kathy 

#26

View PostDavoX, on 14 June 2011 - 09:38 PM, said:

How on earth did you get the EXACT SAME ANGLE on two different programs? I call bullshit on this one.

You might wanna check this site then. :D
http://www.lensoftru...hot-comparison/

Btw, PS3 version still has a 360 gamepad in Duke's hands?
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#27

View PostHelel, on 14 June 2011 - 10:32 PM, said:

You might wanna check this site then. :D
http://www.lensoftru...hot-comparison/

Btw, PS3 version still has a 360 gamepad in Duke's hands?

Am I missing something?
That site is completely useless to pc gamers and it's also disrespectful for acting as if a PC version doesn't even exist, by comparing the 360 and ps3 versions only...
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User is offline   Kathy 

#28

Quote

Am I missing something?

Yep. I was mainly replying to his suprise about taking identical screens from a PC game when people are doing that with consoles.

Quote

That site is completely useless to pc gamers and it's also disrespectful for acting as if a PC version doesn't even exist, by comparing the 360 and ps3 versions only...

Because there is almost no point in comparing PC versus consoles.
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#29

Wow, such a DESASTER!
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#30

View PostDI-MeisterM, on 14 June 2011 - 11:22 PM, said:

Wow, such a DESASTER!

It's not a DISASTER it's an outright nuclear holocaust of hatred man... I haven't seen so many different people agreeing on a disaster in a long LONG fucking time...
I am desperately trying to defend this game with all of my fanboy reserves that I've stacked during all these 14 years of anticipation and I still feel I'm being overwhelmed by negativity and by the bugs and lack of features that I am personally discovering.
I just can't properly defend this game and my fanboy motivation is burning down like it runs on petrol...
I am not even talking about the popular game sites reviews because then I would really just go into Ultra Violet Nuclear war of venomous hate which is so fucking bad that I don't even dare to talk about...
I am under a strange impression that the accumulated hate for this game is so fucking bad that it's going to destabilize Gearbox itself and cause massive skepticism for it's future games, due to the fact that most people hate them for removing or toning down lots of features that seemed to work back when the game was at 3drealms.
I initially expected this game to be a stable polished mediocre game but it seems that's not the case at all.
It seems there are lots of bigger reasons to put the blame on gearbox at this point in time, for simply fucking the the technical part of the game and releasing it in a seemingly beta state...

This post has been edited by Mr.Deviance: 14 June 2011 - 11:38 PM

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