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Command and Conquer Corner  "Building..."

User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#91

View PostMrFlibble, on 13 January 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

There's one in TS where you need to recover the Tacitus as Nod with a small force, that one I didn't like because it felt incomplete.

Considering the game was rushed it's not surprising (that's mainly what I meant by flaws in my post above), FS was more lucky in that regard however.

View PostMrFlibble, on 13 January 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

Emperor was an interesting experiment for sure, but after a while (I replayed the entire game several times for different Houses) those random missions would become basically just skirmish maps with scripted secondary objectives.

This was still pretty good feature for its time, although they could make it better. KW has something like that in a separate mode by the way (and the problem about it is that AI usually throw all its units on you which isn't fun).

That said, Emperor overall is quite easy game, especially if you're getting into it after previous Dune or any other Westwood game, I experienced less tension there for sure though I always expected some kind of a screw up and it has shitton of units which was surprising even (and still no classical Mammoth Tank). Still I enjoyed it a lot and loved soundtrack there especially with Harkonnen being my favorite. Also sandworms there are really huge:
Posted Image
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#92

View PostSledgehammer, on 13 January 2019 - 02:41 AM, said:

That's too early. With EA it should be "I believe it when I see it". They can easily ruin the game.

That said, are OpenRA devs working on it too? I swear I read somewhere that they're involved? I really hope they aren't on board. OpenRA is shit for one fact alone: they nerfed engineers because faggot developers were defeated by a guy who captured both their bases by engineer rush. It is why I don't want to bother with their so called "source ports" and I'm glad there is really no reason to bother with them thanks to the people who made patches for games. Imagine if Duke 3D weapons or Duke himself were nerfed just because someone knew how to play Dukematch better than source port devs.

Honestly I'm not worried about EA: Petroglyph (~the original Westwood guys) is developing the game and the producer who EA put on the project seems legit (the guys knows his C&C, he's absolutely a fan).

The OpenRA devs are not working on the game, EA just reached out to them (just like they reached out to CnCNet) as part of the C&C community so they will provide feedback and have a bit of a closer look on development. It's explained well here:
https://www.reddit.c...munity_council/
Apart from this OpenRA devs have no involvement and chances are you won't see much from OpenRA in the remasters since this is how Pretoglyph is approaching the project:

Quote

Is this a remaster or a remake?

This is a remaster. Our intention is to keep the story, script, and content as authentic as possible to the original games, while providing much higher fidelity with modern quality of life improvements. As Joe stated in his initial post, the Command & Conquer look and feel is incredibly important to us, and will be one of the benchmarks we judge every decision against.

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#93

View PostZaxx, on 13 January 2019 - 10:26 PM, said:

Honestly I'm not worried about EA: Petroglyph (~the original Westwood guys) is developing the game and the producer who EA put on the project seems legit (the guys knows his C&C, he's absolutely a fan).

They can have anyone on board, it doesn't change the fact that EA is still in charge and it's their call what to do or what not. They still can do whatever they want with their franchises and EA is very well known about their treatment of developers or their business practices, the most notable thing about EA is that they just love to rush projects, it's been like that for decades already. Not even Titanfall devs were safe from them and they're also independent company.

It's not a meme that EA is a shitty company, they were the ones who murdered C&C in the first place by their absolutely retarded decisions, they're the last company I would ever trust on anything until they prove their words by delivering a good product. If they deliver then this going to be a big surprise and one of a few modern games I buy with a big pleasure while will look forward for remaster of TS and possibly for true new C&C game, if they don't then whatever, it's not like they can do anything truly good and enjoyable nowadays besides maybe Sims 4 which has many flaws anyway and thankfully we still can play older titles with no problem thanks to dedicated community which is why C&C just like Kane lives, plus Frank Klepacki's ost definitely will not disappoint, even if remaster will be shit.

I hope C&C can be saved since it's my favorite franchise about which I'm really passionate, but I'm still realistic about it. One thing I don't understand though is why Petroglyph can't come up with something closer to C&C or even Dune, their closest successful attempt was 8-bit Armies and yet it's not as good.

View PostZaxx, on 13 January 2019 - 10:26 PM, said:

The OpenRA devs are not working on the game

Well, that's a very good thing.

By the way, can anyone tell me about Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak? What is it like? I know that it's not Homeworld game, but as stand alone thing it looks pretty interesting, I'm getting Dune vibe from it.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 14 January 2019 - 08:05 AM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#94

Trust me, I don't like EA at all (I think I haven't bought anything from them in the last 8 years) but I have a good feeling about this. Your concerns are valid for sure but even Blizzard was capable of remastering StarCraft in 18 months so there is nothing EA can rush here, really. What's most important to me though is that apart from their producer they are not involved in the development (even the outsourced art is being done by the company that remastered StarCraft's assets for SCR), it's a small project under the radar so I don't think anything could fuck this up.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 14 January 2019 - 08:13 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#95

Actually, the only regret I have is that its gonna be a remaster and not a remake (would have been more relevant in the scheme of things) !
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User is offline   axl 

#96

Is there a chance this would be released on Steam or GOG ? I prefer not to use Origins...
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#97

View PostSledgehammer, on 13 January 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

Considering the game was rushed it's not surprising (that's mainly what I meant by flaws in my post above), FS was more lucky in that regard however.

Yes, that's what I keep thinking about these two. I remember reading an article by one of the devs (I think it was this one but not sure ATM) who went into a lot of detail about how the game was rushed and many features were cut or only half-implemented.

View PostSledgehammer, on 13 January 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

That said, Emperor overall is quite easy game, especially if you're getting into it after previous Dune or any other Westwood game, I experienced less tension there for sure though I always expected some kind of a screw up and it has shitton of units which was surprising even (and still no classical Mammoth Tank). Still I enjoyed it a lot and loved soundtrack there especially with Harkonnen being my favorite.

Oh, Emperor indeed is not a hard game overall, I think this was in part because you could level up the units to get regenerating health and boosted features. The average maps though felt rather small for the scale of prolonged combat that you could theoretically have. The generic random missions also removed this feature of the other C&C titles where you'd be often able to find a backdoor into the hand-crafted enemy compound (similarly the AI could be scripted to attack from behind too!). This contrasts with the few scenario hand-made levels.

And I loved the soundtrack as well, all three sides are just marvelous. I probably liked the Ordos one most but the other two are great in their own right.

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#98

View PostZaxx, on 14 January 2019 - 08:13 AM, said:

it's a small project under the radar so I don't think anything could fuck this up.

Will see, the time will tell for sure.

View PostMrFlibble, on 15 January 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

Yes, that's what I keep thinking about these two. I remember reading an article by one of the devs (I think it was this one but not sure ATM) who went into a lot of detail about how the game was rushed and many features were cut or only half-implemented.

Yep, that's the one, at least it reads like one. TS was supposed to be on the level of FS except probably better, it was supposed to be very ambitious C&C game judging by this article alone.



View PostMrFlibble, on 15 January 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

And I loved the soundtrack as well, all three sides are just marvelous. I probably liked the Ordos one most but the other two are great in their own right.


It's a crime they didn't release the entire soundtrack because listening to game rip is really meh, you can't even get acceptable mp3 quality aside from FK soundtrack. This is what I hate about Western industry, they never bother to make the whole ost unlike Japanese developers, I'd get the entire collection of Westwood games OST.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#99

View PostSledgehammer, on 15 January 2019 - 03:23 AM, said:

Yep, that's the one, at least it reads like one. TS was supposed to be on the level of FS except probably better, it was supposed to be very ambitious C&C game judging by this article alone.

Yes, that's definitely the same article.

While re-reading it I remembered another thing I dislike in TS, if only it's a very minor irritation yet actually it dented my impression of the game.

There are props showing "old" structures from the original Command & Conquer popping up in some missions, and in one Nod mission one such prop structure is a mission objective — you need to recover the original Temple of Nod. AFAIK the sprites for at least some of these structures (apart from the Temple there's a ruined Construction Yard, a Power Plant, a Refinery and a Weapons Factory) have been edited compared to their original C&C counterparts, mostly to add visible damage. However the problem is that they retain their original dimensions, and are as such exceedingly tiny compared to the new buildings. I'm not even talking about the aspect ratio thing here. I would have probably appreciated this if it were just an Easter egg of sorts in a mission or two, but this stuff is actually a mission objective and felt odd to me, in a kind of sloppy way. Also I'm generally not a fan of infantry animations in TS.

But the game is good and fun in spite of its shortcomings. While I like StarCraft more — and TS actually has a lot more in common with Blizzard's hallmark title than any other previous Westwood title — there are some cool features in TS that StarCraft never had. However at the same time SC feels a lot cleaner in design, probably not in the least due to the development difficulties that TS faced.

It also seems that there's the shadow of Dominion: Storm Over Gift 3 silently lurking in the past of both titles :)
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User is offline   ReaperAA 

#100

BTW, have u guys tried Twisted Insurrection.
https://www.moddb.co...ed-insurrection

It is a standalone Tiberian Sun TC. It completely redesigns the game with new art, new units, new OST and a new plot following an alternate timeline where the Brotherhood won the First War (Tiberian Dawn's Nod ending). It fixes most of the issues people had with tiberian sun and amplifies the TS atmosphere 10-folds. In addition to all this, it comes with a new client/launcher that allows easy access to multiplayer using CNCNET and adds RA2-onwards style skirmish/multiplayer options like choosing teams, starting locations and hundreds of high quality maps. And a bonus: It even comes with a Tiberian Dawn mode (where u can play with TD's units)




This post has been edited by ReaperAA: 16 January 2019 - 08:13 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#101

I think that EA had the best idea in 25 years by giving back the license to Petroglyph (former Westwood), but I still wonder why a remaster when a remake would have been more relevant ?
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User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor

#102

View PostReaperAA, on 16 January 2019 - 08:12 AM, said:

BTW, have u guys tried Twisted Insurrection.


I played that last year and it was fantastic. They had some very well-designed campaign missions in there, and incredible atmosphere. The unit design and balance is a small step closer to TD than TS, and so feels like a more natural progression of that game.
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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#103

I tried out Twisted Insurrection a while ago. It's cool and feature-rich, awesome art and it's immediately obvious that the developers pushed the capabilities of the game to its limits. Also there's a track by Frank Klepacki he wrote specifically for the mod.

However the missions themselves did not carry me away, I played a couple and stopped. Maybe I should get back to this at some point though.
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User is offline   ReaperAA 

#104

View PostMrFlibble, on 19 January 2019 - 02:45 AM, said:

I tried out Twisted Insurrection a while ago. It's cool and feature-rich, awesome art and it's immediately obvious that the developers pushed the capabilities of the game to its limits. Also there's a track by Frank Klepacki he wrote specifically for the mod.

However the missions themselves did not carry me away, I played a couple and stopped. Maybe I should get back to this at some point though.


Yeah, the initial missions feel less interesting but things get more interesting in later missions. A bit of warning though, the difficulty of the missions(especially later missions) is far higher than vanilla TS to a point where "easy" difficulty in Twisted Insurrection feels like "hard" of vanilla TS. Definitely worth giving a try.

Also have u tried "Dawn of the Tiberium Age" and "Mental Omega".
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#105

I'll just leave this here:

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User is offline   MrFlibble 

#106

JIC, here's the official video of the Magfest performance:

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#107

Excellent! There is one thing I wish to come out of this revisiting of C&C games and that would be release of the entire pre-Generals C&C series OST in lossless format including expansions most importantly.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#108

View PostSledgehammer, on 07 February 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

Excellent! There is one thing I wish to come out of this revisiting of C&C games and that would be release of the entire pre-Generals C&C series OST in lossless format including expansions most importantly.


Is this available for free?
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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#109

Another CNC clone having open source port , KKND : https://www.kknd-gam...vZImXoiX0F1EEgk
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#110

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 07 February 2019 - 08:51 AM, said:

Is this available for free?

The entire C&C Klepacki's work in lossless? No, not even for money. That's why I said I hope for it to come out. Otherwise there is music on his site which is in stereo lossy quality (but better than in-game obviously): http://www.frankklepacki.com/
Click "listen", this is where he has the entire work.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 08 February 2019 - 04:09 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • The Sarien Encounter

#111

Ohh I misread your post. I thought you said it was available. My mistake.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#112

Some remaster news regarding the soundtrack and the sound design:
https://www.reddit.c...nd_audio_input/
https://www.reddit.c...oundtrack_poll/

Anyway after seeing that there was a bit of Dune talk in here I thought I'd share something that kind of occured to me while re-reading the Dune books: the setting of Command & Conquer is really fucking similar to the setting of Dune. Things to consider:

- Melange and tiberium are pretty similar: both are important resources for the whole of humanity and both of them are basically alien substances that affect people in more than one ways.

- Just like how the sandworms and the melange they produce change Arrakis into a desert planet tiberium is changing the Earth too.

- Two great factions are fighting for the same resource just like in the first Dune book.

- Kane is pretty similar to the messianic figures in the Dune saga, especially in the later games. Kane is presented as an evil terrorist controlling a religious sect at first and he becomes an "I'm doing all this bad stuff because I just want to help humanity" type of guy later while in the case of Paul Atreides and II. Leto that's kind of reversed and also a lot more complex but still, the similarity is there.

This kinda gives me the notion that Westwood made C&C a thing partially because they did not want their work to be tied to a license, a different IP they have no control over... and guess they were right since nowadays the Herberts simply refuse to give out licenses for Dune videogames.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 25 February 2019 - 06:59 PM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#113

Cryo Interactive also made an adaptation of Dune before Westwood do its Dune 2
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#114

It's kind of more complicated than that. Both studios didn't even know that they were making the same Dune game at first because of Virgin miscommunication. They were developed pretty much at the same time as a result. Also I find it pretty interesting that Cryo Interactive's Dune was very close to the book than to the movie. Liked the game way better than the movie, though I'd love to see a combination of both these games and Westwood probably could pullout something like that since they contributed to other genres besides RTS (for example they made Nox, an ARPG).

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 26 February 2019 - 04:14 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#115

View PostSledgehammer, on 26 February 2019 - 04:13 PM, said:

Also I find it pretty interesting that Cryo Interactive's Dune was very close to the book than to the movie.

You mean the game was closer to the book than the movie? Nah, Cryo's Dune is a lot different, Lynch's movie is a lot closer to the source material. Sure, the movie's a fairly loose adaptation too and its ending is terrible but still, it's a lot closer. In Cryo's game Irulan doesn't even exist as far as the ending is considered (Chani becomes the Empress which is just lol), the Baron and Feyd-Rautha don't die at the end, Duncan Idaho is alive etc.

Compared to that I prefer Westwood's Dune games simply because they didn't give a fuck: visually Dune 2000 and Emperor were based around the movie but their stories are fully original with only a few nods to the books here and there (like I remember that in Dune 2000 the Atreides mentat is called Noree Moneo which is a combination of the name of two characters from God Emperor of Dune + the Harkonnen mentat's name is Hayt which is the name of the Duncan Idaho ghola from Dune Messiah). I really like the Ordos too: they don't exist in the books but they feel like a cool mix between the Ixians and the Bene Tleilax.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 26 February 2019 - 07:27 PM

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#116

Oh shit, thanks to the new movie Dune games are coming again:
https://investors.fu...-dune-universe/
It's Funcom so "meh" for now but we'll see what they'll come up with. Fingers crossed for an RPG or an RTS.

Edit: Well now that I think about Petroglyph (= the old Westwood) is developing a Conan RTS for Funcom now. Petro is working on the C&C remasters too so they'll surely have a nice and shiny version of the old C&C engine... the same engine Dune 2000 is running on...

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 27 February 2019 - 12:33 AM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#117

I don't remember the ending well in that game, but most of it was pretty close to the book as far as I can remember (granted there are less limitations in video games compared to movies). Otherwise Westwood games were the only reason what got me into the universe (and honestly I prefer these games more). I know I wouldn't be as interested in Dune if it wasn't for their games, so I'm actually glad that Lynch's movie happened, if it wasn't for it we likely wouldn't get even C&C franchise.

Exclusive, huh? Eh, Funcom games are meh (though I'm glad they're not the one who made the shitshow called Dreamfall Chapter). Well, at least they're not EA I guess, so it's a start. Now if they hired Petroglyph (assuming they can deliver) for Dune games that would be very good and I'll gladly take Dune games as an alternative for C&C. Hopefully that movie will bring us good Dune games again (and I have a bad feeling about this remake or whatever it's called), wouldn't mind to see remaster of Emperor too. That said, I remember now that some Russians are slowly making Dune 2000 inspired game called Mars 2000.

This better not be a wasted opportunity.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 27 February 2019 - 02:18 AM

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User is offline   gemeaux333 

#118

What woulod be great would be if Petroglyph could reboot the CNC series from after CNC 2 Firestorm and give their own vision of what CNC 3 would have been if it were done by Westwood...
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • Banned

#119

Oooookay, I got a bit excited now:
https://www.facebook...156347086098789
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • Once you start doubting, there's no end to it

#120

Sounds like a tease and I look forward either way. Looks like it's time to boot up Dune 2000. I hope I haven't lost converted Emperor music, by the way, shit's great to play with this OST.
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