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Why does the Holoduke only work on 1 enemy?

User is offline   VGA 

  • 14

#1

After dropping the Holoduke and having the enemies ignore it, I checked the wiki:
http://dukenukem.wik.../Holoduke_(DN3D)

So it only works on the Octabrain, is there a technical reason for this? It features so prominently on the levels, it's weird that it is so useless.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#2

Yeah it could have been very useful, but it wasn't coded properly. I have a mod called Essential Duke that fixes this and a lot of other stuff. But yeah, it's pretty useless in as-is.
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User is offline   VGA 

  • 14

#3

Hm, interesting mod. It's weird that they didn't even fix the Holoduke in a patch back then.

Another question I have is why do enemies see me when their back is turned to me? It's strange, even Wolf3D and Doom had this functionality.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#4

View PostVGA, on 05 March 2018 - 07:05 PM, said:

Another question I have is why do enemies see me when their back is turned to me? It's strange, even Wolf3D and Doom had this functionality.


The functions that check visibility evaluate whether there is any line of sight between the sprite and the player, they don't take into consideration the angle that the sprite happens to be facing. I don't recall ever being able to sneak up on Doom enemies, though, so I always assumed they worked pretty much the same way.
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User is offline   Nancsi 

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#5

Weren't Doom enemies coded to react for weapon sound? I always hear imp sounds even before I see them.
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#6

View PostNancsi, on 06 March 2018 - 12:53 AM, said:

Weren't Doom enemies coded to react for weapon sound? I always hear imp sounds even before I see them.


http://doom.wikia.co...onster_behavior

Quote

The monster's initial target is usually the player who awakened the monster from its dormant state by moving into its line of sight, by making an attack in an area the monster can hear (unless the monster has the "deaf" flag set) or by harming the monster. If the initial target was another monster and the monster has not perceived a player while fighting the other monster, it returns to the dormant state after killing its target monster.

After a monster awakens from its dormant state and it is hit for the first time, a target countdown timer called "threshold" is activated. The longer a monster walks around with the same target, the lower the threshold gets. As long as the threshold remains positive, the monster will not change its target even if it is hit by another player or a monster. The monster will only choose a new target if the threshold reaches zero and the monster is hit by another monster or player, or if its current target dies.


You guys are totally right, that is considerably more sophisticated than Duke Nukem enemy behavior.
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User is offline   Doom64hunter 

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#7

View PostTrooper Dan, on 05 March 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

The functions that check visibility evaluate whether there is any line of sight between the sprite and the player, they don't take into consideration the angle that the sprite happens to be facing. I don't recall ever being able to sneak up on Doom enemies, though, so I always assumed they worked pretty much the same way.


The enemies in Doom have a FOV of 180 degrees when unalerted, meaning that once you are looking at them from the side, they are able to see you. Map01 of Doom 2 starts you with two zombiemen in front of you that have their back turned to you, for example.

However, note that monsters can be set to ambush, meaning that once they hear a sound through an open sector, they will gain a FOV of 360 degrees, and will activate once there's a clear line of sight between the player and the monster. In this state they function in essentially the same way as the enemies in Build.
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User is online   Hendricks266 

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  #8

>idles chainsaw
>enemies undisturbed
>punch the air
>everyone turns around
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User is offline   Nancsi 

  • 380

#9

When I first played Duke3D back in 1996, I always wanted to generate a monster infighting, and surprised it didn't happen.

It would be interesting if the Doom coding somehow got adapted into Duke, although it might cause some problems in the existing maps.
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User is offline   Doom64hunter 

  • 228

#10

I thought Blood supported infighting. I could be wrong though.

Dukeplus has it too.
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User is offline   VGA 

  • 14

#11

So Duke3D enemies cannot infight. But can they hurt each other with their projectiles?
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User is offline   Perro Seco 

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#12

View PostDoom64hunter, on 06 March 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

I thought Blood supported infighting. I could be wrong though.
No, you aren't. I saw a lot of cultists fighting with zombies, and sometimes I take advantage of that to avoid been killed. Also, like in Doom, they only see you when you are in front of them.

View PostVGA, on 06 March 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

So Duke3D enemies cannot infight. But can they hurt each other with their projectiles?
Yes. :)

Posted Image
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User is offline   RunningDuke 

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#13

Trooper Dan, you should use Doomwiki.org from now on instead of the outdated doom wikia. ;) Here is the correct article: https://doomwiki.org...onster_behavior

On topic: I also found the Holoduke to be quite useless when I was a kid. I definitely remember testing a bit at one point and worked well against the octabrains but it seemed to work on other enemies too, as long as you were out of their line of sight or just very far away. But it was still pretty useless.

As for monster infighting in Duke3D, they don't infight but indeed they can be hurt by each other. Only projectile that doesn't harm them is the octabrain blast, which passes through them (or rather gets stuck on them for a few seconds).
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User is online   Trooper Dan 

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#14

With some effort you can make the Duke 3D enemies able to fight each other, although it involves overriding or replacing a lot of their code. However, it makes sense to me that they don't fight each other. The Duke enemies are more of an organized military, not an unruly bunch of demons -- they shouldn't start fighting each other over a little friendly fire incident. If they were to fight each other, I think the best way to do it would to be have certain types of Duke enemies dislike other types. So, for example, if a pigcop shoots an enforcer or vice versa, then they will start going at it. But aliens will not fight others of the same species, and the disciplined liztroopers will never fight any other alien.
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User is offline   necroslut 

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#15

View PostTrooper Dan, on 06 March 2018 - 12:27 PM, said:

With some effort you can make the Duke 3D enemies able to fight each other, although it involves overriding or replacing a lot of their code. However, it makes sense to me that they don't fight each other. The Duke enemies are more of an organized military, not an unruly bunch of demons -- they shouldn't start fighting each other over a little friendly fire incident. If they were to fight each other, I think the best way to do it would to be have certain types of Duke enemies dislike other types. So, for example, if a pigcop shoots an enforcer or vice versa, then they will start going at it. But aliens will not fight others of the same species, and the disciplined liztroopers will never fight any other alien.

There is already some element of this, with the brainless slimers eating other enemies if given the chance.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels

This post has been edited by necroslut: 06 March 2018 - 12:52 PM

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