[Zaxx]

Commando Nukem, on 29 December 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

Then why would you say it? No. they didn't "Create a monster." They were trying to create a fucking great game and they were kept form doing that.

What I meant was that every single developer who worked on this dogshit contributed to creating the "mythos" of DNF... so no, it's not a literal "fuck you" (except for George).

Quote

What it does do is take some of the best aspects of Deus Ex and puts them into the Duke Nukem framework. Weapon mods/modes, an inventory system stealth and combat options, multiple(more than two in several areas) choices in level design, lots and lots of interactivity.

Okay, I have to admit I laughed out loud after reading that. Is there anything this imaginary game we keep calling DNF 2001 cannot do? Hell, I think it has base building too!

You just have to admit that the whole thing seems like a mess of a bunch different mechanics thrown together because as George might have said back in the day "we're making the best game ever here!!!!", it's just too much. Stealth in a Duke game? Really? Who wants that? Sure, DNF was always meant to be an ambitious game but also a project that struggled with a lack of focus all the time during its development so why embrace that aspect? Have you played the version of DNF that we got? There are at least 50 good ideas in there with around 500 bad ones but overall the game's main problem is that it simply doesn't understand what makes Duke fun. Do you want to lift weights in an interactive minigame to boost your ego? NO, you want to push a button, watch some interactivity happen for 2 seconds, laugh and move on to shooting stuff. Sometimes more can become less because deeper and more elaborate shit can make a game LOSE FOCUS.

Why do I think that DNF 2001 looks bad on these videos? Because the shooting sucks and that's what matters the most in an FPS, that's where the focus should be, that's the ground zero of FPS game design. You need crisp, snappy shooting mechanics with good weapon feedback and you see none of that here, it's actually very similar to DNF 2011's wooden, shitty weapon feel (apart from the shotgun, the shotgun was cool).

Personally I think I got the best version of DNF that I realistically could, it's called Ion Fury and it's a great little continuation / expansion of the Duke 3D design. Why would I care about some unfinished mess in comparison? Even if I want AAA then something like Doom 2016 is better than DNF could have ever been, the incompetent hacks at 3DR who thought that they are too good to make "just another shooter" would have never been able to execute such a nice, polished, clean design. Okay, if you say it's your hobby to daydream about DNF 2001 then who am I to judge how you spend your free time but really??? Play a good game instead, there are so many decent / good shooters out there these days, stuff that keeps the legacy of the genre alive and fresh.

[brullov]

@Zaxx

Why do we have to fight here cause of different tastes? If you don't like DNF 2001 it's fine, but I and a lot of other people love DNF 2001 trailer, screenshots, any design docs and other leaks. Trough all these years it has transformed into a Holy Grail of our community. Your words hurt. I'd stay with leak discussion here instead of other things.

I also support Commando Nukem in his every word. I've not watched the stream. I personaly watched the DNF 2001 build at 3DR office few years ago. It is real, amazing and good for 2001. For 2001.

[Zaxx]

Great, then release it instead of telling me how awesome it is because really it's not DNF itself I'm fed up with (though I've come to hate the subject for sure because the PTSD of DNF never seems to go away in this community) but this constant wishy-washy bullshit of "I've seen it and it's real, it walked on water!" Upload it to the torrents, who the fuck cares anymore?

Edit: Necroslut: stop downvoting like a coward, if you want to say something then say it.

[brullov]

If I had it on my drive I would. I don't care about any US legal shit in Ukraine.

[Zaxx]

That's the best part really: the "legal shit". I just don't think that anyone would waste time on pursuing legal action if the game leaked, what, Gearbox would be like "oh no, they stole our 20 year old tech we never would have done anything with anyway, what a loss for the company!"? Yet even after 20 years you have to look at low res few second long videos and random streams because everybody's afraid of an idiot who leaves his porn USB in restaurants.

[brullov]

I don't think so. Leaking such game is a very serious thing. Yeah we all mentioned that Duke is dead, DNF 2001 is almost 20 years old, but in reality this IP costs a lot of money. Gearbox reputation costs a lot of money. We can bitch all of that as much as we want, but it won't change the fact — money.

I've clearly understood that for you it does not cost a penny, so no need to repeat this statement again and again. For me it's priceless. In some case because of nostalgia for sure. In some case as a good (in my personal opinion) unfinished game. In some case as game developer curiosity.

[Zaxx]

brullov, on 30 December 2019 - 08:47 AM, said:

In some case as game developer [/size][/font]curiosity.

That's the only valid reason for wanting to see this I guess.

Quote

Leaking such game is a very serious thing.

That would have been the case 20 or even 10 years ago but nowadays what's in there is so irrelevant (with the Duke franchise itself included in that) that nobody would really care if the leaker wouldn't be obvious to find. The thing is that nobody cares now apart from the few people in this thread, that's it.

[OpenMaw]

brullov, on 30 December 2019 - 08:47 AM, said:

I've clearly understood that for you it does not cost a penny, so no need to repeat this statement again and again. For me it's priceless. In some case because of nostalgia for sure. In some case as a good (in my personal opinion) unfinished game. In some case as game developer curiosity.

That pretty much covers everything.

[Jimmy]

brullov, on 30 December 2019 - 07:44 AM, said:

Why do we have to fight here cause of different tastes?

Because Zaxx is a retard.

[Zaxx]

Jesus is King, on 30 December 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Because Zaxx is a retard.

Yet it was you who started insulting someone here with this post. I'm not here to fight, I was pretty much just lurking and laughing my ass off until "somebody" compared unfinished garbage to Deus Ex.

[Jimmy]

Insulting people is awesome dude.

[Zaxx]

Jesus is King, on 30 December 2019 - 06:32 PM, said:

Insulting people is awesome dude.

No it's not but I know that you're only angry because Mr. Hands was your father so I forgive you.

[Jimmy]

Everybody on this forum agrees you're a retard, you know that right?

[Jimmy]

Also Mr. Hands was fucking cool. Semper Fur!

[Zaxx]

Only his son would say that. Do you still say "he died in an accident" when they ask?

[Jimmy]

No dude, he died getting his ass blasted by a mega hot horse cock dripping with fresh cummies for daddy.

[Zaxx]

Okay, thread successfully destroyed, see you next nickname.

[Jimmy]

Every time I hear his death moan, I yell to the gods "Guess what!?" as I ejaculate an impossibly voluminous load all over my beer belly and face like a cum snorting Louis C.K. As the cum drips from my forehead and nose into my mouth, I can only say "At least I got to eat. RIP in peace dad thanks for the nut."

[Zaxx]

Yep, still a perfect representation of DNF fans. Fifty Shades of Neigh.

[Jimmy]

Hey bro I was gonna send you an important massage but it looks like you blocked me so Im just gonna copy that shit here no reason for us to be ashamed of how god made us and shit we cant help we love tweaking porcupines in the woods

Hey man send me your zooporn collection I know you have one and you're just being greedy send me that shit man i wanna see what kind of brazilian dog felching or japanese octopuss cumsquirtle shit you've got bro you better send it to me because i need to coom just like my dadddy did and if you don't send me that sick feline barbcock painal i know you been recording im just gonna flip man because i need that shit you been jacking to on the dl that you know I been peeping through your windows when youre sucking off your neighbors bird and shit fuck man just send me whatever pictures of cow udder cumshots you got thats good enough but for real if you could supply your mans with the dolphin cock voyeur shots Id just nut

[Person of Color]

[Radar]

Ok coomer.

[Zaxx]

It's great that when one of you guys manage to kill off a thread (this can go on the pile though, you're really doing God's work here) the other two always appear instantly. I don't know what you're doing but I'm sure there's something gay in it.

[OpenMaw]

JUSSSSHUTUP FORRA SECONNNNNNNN....!!!

WATCH.

[necroslut]

Now, I haven't seen the stream, only those small snippets posted here, but I kinda have to agree with Zaxx on that the gunplay/combat doesn't look that amazing – much more reminiscent of Half-Life 2 "realistic" combat than the fast, dynamic, platformy gunplay of Duke 3D. Of course, could simply be that the guy playing is an idiot that prefers blocking with his face over taking cover.
The clips only really show a single enemy (EDF "zombie") and mostly the pistol, so they don't really say much, but those of you who've seen more – are they representative in any way?

[Jimmy]

Don't forget that the guy playing DNF is Frederik Schreiber, a man who doesn't play video games.

[necroslut]

HorseDongSub69, on 30 December 2019 - 08:41 PM, said:

Don't forget that the guy playing DNF is Frederik Schreiber, a man who doesn't play video games.

Yeah, that's what I thought, hence the "might be an idiot" caveat.

[OpenMaw]

necroslut, on 30 December 2019 - 08:32 PM, said:

and mostly the pistol, so they don't really say much, but those of you who've seen more – are they representative in any way?

Brullov can back this up in greater detail than I can, but what I was shown was sections of level that are linear passages, leading to larger areas with all kinds of stuff going on, scripted events, set pieces, back to halls, more open areas with things to do, puzzles to solve. Like I said, think of some of the layouts present in Deus Ex, where you can make several choices on how to approach things. (infiltrating the EDF base is not a straight shot affair, for example. You can play stealth, or you can be loud. It's up to you. avenues open and close based on what you're doing.) They were certainly trying to expand on what was there in Duke 3D with the idea that the places are at least semi-realistic. Pseudo realistic environments, or hyper-realistic if you prefer. They're realistic feeling playgrounds would probably be the most apt way to describe them.

In some of the footage I saw, EDF soldiers, dogs, brains, attack choppers, gunships, more generalized mutated zombie types.

You can jack shit off corpses. Again, a bit of a Deus Ex feel.


One thing that makes the footage hard to judge is the lack of the game sound. Something can look weak, but feel good when you have the right sound effects. IE the shotgun in the trailer feels like it can wreck some shit, but if you watch some of the clips you can see some secondary pumping animations that don't have the same kinetic oomph to them that the trailer has. Part of that is sound, and part of that is likely that animations were not finalized yet. (You will note, for example, that we never saw the pistol reload in the 2001 trailer, and the clips that are on display show a very rough reload animation.)

[necroslut]

Commando Nukem, on 30 December 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:

(lots of text)

That all sounds promising, and answers another question I had about levels and linearity, but it didn't really say so much about the combat specifically. In the clips it's just Duke and some soldier standing still shooting each other in the face (reminded me of Doom 3 or HL2) but I guess that's just the streamer (and it's a low-level enemy so you can get away with it).

[Zaxx]

necroslut, on 30 December 2019 - 08:32 PM, said:

Now, I haven't seen the stream, only those small snippets posted here, but I kinda have to agree with Zaxx on that the gunplay/combat doesn't look that amazing – much more reminiscent of Half-Life 2 "realistic" combat than the fast, dynamic, platformy gunplay of Duke 3D. Of course, could simply be that the guy playing is an idiot that prefers blocking with his face over taking cover.
The clips only really show a single enemy (EDF "zombie") and mostly the pistol, so they don't really say much, but those of you who've seen more – are they representative in any way?

I don't think you understand what I mean when I say that the gunplay looks bad. I don't mean the combat encounters or the quality of the gameplay because you really can't judge that without actually playing the damn thing. What I mean is that what's there looks really boring: the pistol has the most basic animation imaginable, the movement is basic as hell too, there's just no good visual feedback or anything that would immerse you into shooting stuff.

I'm going to cheat now and show something that's beyond the scope of what was possible 20 years ago but it's great to illustrate what I mean:

See this? Do you FEEL it? Amazing gunplay even with Half-Life 2's admittedly not super unique arsenal and movement, the whole thing just feels right, you want to shoot those weapons right the hell now. I'm a simple man, I judge the core of most first person shooters by the quality of their gunplay and really the core mechanics should feel right even at a pre-alpha stage. So the fact that I'm not seeing any of that while I do see signs of lots of less important features there is telling me that this version of the game suffered from the same lack of focus that plagued the 2011 product too. If you make a shooter where Duke Nukem does the shooting then the first thing you should focus on is making the gunplay worthy of the guy instead of designing the vending machines.

And btw. that's why I've grown to hate most discussions about DNF: they're never about what's important for a good gameplay experience (gunplay, level design, enemy design etc.) but always about the frankly worthless, megalomaniac features that ultimately add nothing to the core of the game. It's always the level of interactivity, the graphics, vehicle driving etc., you know, the extra things you're happy for if they are well implemented but it's just stuff that simply don't make a game good.