DNF 90% Complete Goalposts Shift to 2002 Build "3DR wants to release it, but it's up to Gearbox"
#511 Posted 28 August 2018 - 04:54 PM
I honestly believe that some of the major flops concerning DNF have more to do with Triptych and Take-Two Interactive than Randy or Gearbox. Take-Two Interactive nixed the console, mod tools, etc and I believe they are trying to stop the release of the prototypes as well. This is standard procedure for Take 2, and people who want to blame Randy are either ignorant or blind to the fact that Take 2 does this shit all the time. Take-Two Interactive appears to have found mods to be a liability ever since Hot Coffee. Don't forget about what they did to GTA V. Rockstar hated it. Take-Two Interactive is the enemy here, not Randy Pitchford.
This post has been edited by Jimmy 4k: 28 August 2018 - 04:56 PM
#513 Posted 29 August 2018 - 04:09 AM
But, since Randy cannot do anything to "resolve" it, I would not surprised everyone would throws their hatred shit to Randy, and I still not changed my mind, I still hater of him, but not because of DNF, it's all other shit like laziness/rush works/no updates on the 20th port, and lack of shit about DN.
#514 Posted 29 August 2018 - 07:37 AM
I'm kind of inclined to believe Randy about the state of the build, to be honest. I remember back in the day on the 3DR forums when one of the devs came out and broke down the 2001 trailer scene by scene, saying which bits were made for the trailer and which bits were fully playable and I think I remember him saying that the majority of it was built for the trailer. I reckon playing it would probably be kinda like what playing the Half-Life 2 alpha leak was like way back when that dropped. Bits will work, bits won't and it'll be broken, buggy and far from polished. And I'm also inclined to agree that people will be disappointed.
The 2001 trailer for DNF was the most excited I'd ever been for a game when it came out. It looked phenomenal. In most of our heads, we built an expectation of what THAT game would've been and as much as I'd love to get hold of it and play it, whatever state it's in, deep down, I know I'll be disappointed.
#515 Posted 29 August 2018 - 02:22 PM
#516 Posted 29 August 2018 - 02:57 PM
Jimmy 4k, on 29 August 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:
Thank you for linking this. Funny what memory does, could've sworn it was on 3DR but I knew I saw it on a forum somewhere.
Edit: Just had another read of his post. There's a lot more on it that's playable than I remember, actually.
SAD FACE!
This post has been edited by knopparp: 29 August 2018 - 03:05 PM
#518 Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:25 AM
MusicallyInspired, on 25 August 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:
It could be DNF 2001 rendered into a lower resolution framebuffer and was upscaled to match the resolution of the back buffer. Not saying that's what's going on here, but its possible.
As a side note, I personally believe Randy, and you guys should as well. Just because files exist for other levels in a project doesn't mean they are completed, fun, or even usable. Just by looking at a directory structure of a project doesn't give any insight to the state the project.
This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 31 August 2018 - 08:31 AM
#519 Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:47 PM
#520 Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:57 PM
icecoldduke, on 31 August 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:
Come on, the images in question clearly show signs of lossy compression artifacts due to being streamed.
icecoldduke, on 31 August 2018 - 08:25 AM, said:
I believe Fred over Randy, and Charlie over both. At least Fred has directly handled the materials, even if he exaggerates his claims. I don't believe Randy would have found out any other way than the usual game of corporate telephone up and down the middle management chain to some intern who doesn't know what they're looking at.
#521 Posted 31 August 2018 - 02:47 PM
Hendricks266, on 31 August 2018 - 12:57 PM, said:
I've worked with people like Randy, hes a business man, and I get why you would think that. However in this case, my belief is your hypothesis is wrong. I believe most of that e-mail. I doubt Gearbox is putting much effort into getting the build out to the public, but Randy's analysis of whats there makes sense. If Gearbox releases the code/assets and lets the community fix it up, that would be fantastic. Short of that, we'll probably see a "best of whats there" compilation app, which will likely be very disappointing.
#522 Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:11 PM
Fred says it was 95% done
Willing to bet the game was 50% done
This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 31 August 2018 - 03:12 PM
#523 Posted 31 August 2018 - 05:25 PM
HulkNukem, on 31 August 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:
Fred says it was 95% done
Willing to bet the game was 50% done
Doesn't work like that . We'll just have to wait and see.
#524 Posted 31 August 2018 - 07:16 PM
The follow are obviously my own opinions and theories, you are free to agree or not and correct me if am wrong as well (so much time has passed after all).
We are talking about the start of the 2000s, many games were very good that times, oh my, remember Street Fighter (zero series as well), Tekken (1-2-3), Killer Instinct (1-2), Painkiller, Super Smash Bros (64-Meele) and a whole lot more...(sorry if your favourite game is not in the list, but would be insane to list them all, also is pretty obvious as is the reason we are here ).
But new gens, new engines and new games were in the air. i'll use Call of duty as main example (a copy 'n paste of the same game for the next 2000 years, coming out almost every year).
Then..."hey guys, a new engine came out and new gens prefer to watch best graphics (like if games are movies...) and funny-comedy things in a slow paced way with just very few weapons, than to play a frantic COMPLETE and COMPETITIVE game with a big arsenal carried by a badass character! So, put DNF (WIP) badass version in the trash and let's start it on a new engine, making him more funny", taking sh*t from the bathrooms and listen 10 mins a guy that is talking into the screen is funny isn't it?...
Now look at some of the successors from the above listed games; no more gore/brutality, slow paced, a no sense input lag added (try sm4sh and come here to proof that this is not true!!!), funny-comedy stuff and not so many paths to proceed .
Ofc everything is not crap, i did enjoy Doom 2016, not the best game ever ok, but it is a good game imho (exception for the multiplayer).
New gens enjoy too much about the graphics and special effects or even watch games on youtube instead to enjoy and play the games, and slowly the marketing became: Graphics/resolution=Badass videocards/Pc, then 120 fps, then screen/multi screens over 120hz, what next? "My holograms are bigger than yours"?
As reminder: this is my own opinion, is not intended to offend anyone, and i hope that the free speak is toggled ON, 'til is nothing personal or too heavy.
More than this i hope that , what i wrote is understandable .
This post has been edited by The Battlelord: 31 August 2018 - 07:24 PM
#525 Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:02 PM
icecoldduke, on 31 August 2018 - 05:25 PM, said:
Mate, it was a joke
#526 Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:15 PM
And Randy's "9%" shouldn't be taken literally - it's obviously just a flip of 90%, saying "it's more like 9%" in direct response to the 90% number.
But even if Fred is spot on for once, 90% done is not "almost complete" - that's still months of full-time full-team work away from done. People hear 90% and they think "99.99%", like there's just the final title screen and some textures missing. Much of people's experiences with "betas" is from versions sent out to press and such very close to release.
And then there's the matter of how to quantify the completeness of something that never had a set end goal. You can't really estimate how complete and incomplete build for DNF is if there's no specification of a "100% build" to compare it to. As far as we know, they never really finalized the game design, which makes it very difficult for "outsiders" to estimate how done it is because they don't know what's even supposed to be there.
This post has been edited by necroslut: 31 August 2018 - 08:17 PM
#527 Posted 31 August 2018 - 10:52 PM
Here is what I expect to be there: One or more demo maps that have all of the demo trailer content. Some events might be playable, some might not be(like if it was developed just to be recorded). The rest of the maps probably don't have much of anything. Maybe a small section of a outside environment, maybe a map with no more then a few rooms in it.
What's more interesting is what's completed on the code/art side. Are the enemies fully flushed out(timing, damage, health, animations, etc)? Are the weapons fully flushed out(timing, damage, animations, etc)? Basically is it in a state were the community can pick it up and do something with it, or is it completely worthless? That we don't know, and I wouldn't expect Randy/Fred to know either. Someone has to do a deep dive and figure it out.
This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 31 August 2018 - 11:01 PM
#528 Posted 01 September 2018 - 12:13 AM
Jimmy 4k, on 28 August 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:
And that would have been so much fucking better.
#529 Posted 01 September 2018 - 01:52 AM
Zaxx, on 01 September 2018 - 12:13 AM, said:
No, for me it's not much better.
Yes, it's not a great game, even without DN on it. But to me, it's still good game, just some flaws and something I didn't like.
I can't imagine if Randy and Gearbox never pick up the game/IP, then DNF never happened.
But, I suppose that means if DNF will never released and then 3DR will still have Duke IP without follow-up shitfests after post-DNF released like now, then I guess well, maybe that's would better but I would not think too much about that, since shit already happened, then that's it. Randy/Gearbox and 2K still part of this mess(maybe 3DR too) and nothing changed that totally.
This post has been edited by Player Lin: 01 September 2018 - 01:54 AM
#530 Posted 01 September 2018 - 05:49 AM
Player Lin, on 01 September 2018 - 01:52 AM, said:
Yes, it's not a great game, even without DN on it. But to me, it's still good game, just some flaws and something I didn't like.
I can't imagine if Randy and Gearbox never pick up the game/IP, then DNF never happened.
Sure but that's your inner Duke fan talking.
Here's how I see it: there is no point in releasing a new Duke game if you're burying the IP with it = don't release a Duke game that's bad because that means the franchise will be fucked in the ass big time. It's a "you're fucked if you do and you're fucked if you don't" situation, I know: if Randy and 2K shut down DNF and restarted it from scratch then Randy is the guy who killed DNF, a game we all thought of as the second coming of Jesus Christ. On the other hand if the game is released we get what we got: a dead franchise that can only hope for a movie adaptation that's half decent so a publisher won't think that investing in it is an idiotic idea.
The thing is though that DNF should have been the Doom 2016 of Duke Nukem because that's the only thing that can put Duke back on the map. Look what Bethesda did when they had a long, hard look at Doom 4: "Okay guys, this is nice and all but it doesn't feel like Doom and it's just not good enough. How about you restart and make an actual Doom game?" The result: a great fucking FPS that put the Doom franchise in a position where they can confidently pour money on it so the bigger and more expensive stuff you saw in the Doom Eternal reveal is now possible without compromise. You don't have to wait another 12 years for Doom 5 like you had to wait for Doom 4 after Doom 3 since Doom 2016 was good and it was successful so Eternal is cooking in the oven already.
What can Duke fans hope for? If the movie makes some money we'll get a new Duke game around 2025 and if that miracle - the movie being good - doesn't happen then seeing how much of a shit show Gearbox is lately then it's done, over... and you have DNF to thank for that.
So sure, it was nice to play game called DNF and it had a few maps that were actually enjoyable but the reality is that we should have never played that fucking thing. I don't blame Randy though since I'm sure that 2K was busting his balls about it: they already blew a lot of money on the development of DNF so from their perspective it was all about cutting losses. They generated some hype around it, marketed it like the best thing ever, hoped that fans will buy a lot of collector's editions before the reviews drop and afterwards they can just go to the bank laughing since everything that happens with the IP afterwards is Randy's problem, not theirs. Yep, if you think about it real hard DNF was a scam.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 01 September 2018 - 05:54 AM
#531 Posted 01 September 2018 - 08:33 AM
#532 Posted 01 September 2018 - 10:08 AM
I'm not movie guy anymore(almost never see any of movies at all, but still watch TV series if I have interests on something),
so for me it's nothing about if they finally make the DN movie on theater, because I don't care about it.
Most of game-based movies just so-so or badly, so I won't hold my breathe on it, even, it may become hit...but, just like the new DN game, I don't care until it actually happens...you can hope but just don't put your expectations on super high level, it may become very disappoints like DNF if they make something very wrong.
This post has been edited by Player Lin: 01 September 2018 - 10:09 AM
#533 Posted 01 September 2018 - 08:32 PM
#534 Posted 01 September 2018 - 08:41 PM
necroslut, on 01 September 2018 - 08:32 PM, said:
Especially not today, with the way they keep trying to """""""""""""" """""""update"""""" """""""""""""" "" properties.
#535 Posted 01 September 2018 - 10:26 PM
I can't tell which would be better, them having involvement or them having zero involvement.
#536 Posted 02 September 2018 - 01:16 AM
HulkNukem, on 01 September 2018 - 10:26 PM, said:
I can't tell which would be better, them having involvement or them having zero involvement.
There is that Twitch thing Randy is doing nowadays and there he basically said that they will have zero involvement, the only thing they have control over is to approve the base concept or not as license holders. And we all know they'll approve almost anything since they are in a desperate situation with the IP.
Anyway there's not much point in discussing the movie now as even the script is not finished yet.
This post has been edited by Zaxx: 02 September 2018 - 01:17 AM
#537 Posted 03 September 2018 - 11:57 AM
Sgt Nate V, on 28 August 2018 - 04:17 PM, said:
Assuming this is a genuine outsider looking in to the varied builds through the years, I find little to quibble with.
A game at 90% looks to most customers as a 4/10. A game at 80% is a 1/10. crazy seems like a reasonable dude.
Where we disagree is the premise of most content existing "for specific shots". That severely limits what I think they've seen.
This post has been edited by JumpJuneJump: 03 September 2018 - 11:58 AM
#538 Posted 03 September 2018 - 12:06 PM
Jimmy 4k, on 28 August 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:
100% Randy truly without any hesitation or doubt wants to Make Duke Great Again.
He's got a harder task than Trump.
Jimmy 4k, on 29 August 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:
Not true once ever. At *most* a railroad laying earth moving foundation providing premonition of Brian Hook. And a LOT of code/UnrealScript that doesn't belong in polite company.
Jimmy 4k, on 29 August 2018 - 02:22 PM, said:
Nope... account perfectly balanced. I will overtly reject more.
#539 Posted 03 September 2018 - 02:58 PM
JumpJuneJump, on 03 September 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:
A game at 90% looks to most customers as a 4/10. A game at 80% is a 1/10. crazy seems like a reasonable dude.
Where we disagree is the premise of most content existing "for specific shots". That severely limits what I think they've seen.
Is it fair to say that you partially disagree with RP in regards to what the 2001 build actually is and plays like? It sounds like it to me. RP seems to be saying 'everything in that version of the game was built for show, ala trailers and screenshots' and you seem to be saying 'not quite. Bit more to it than that'. Obviously I don't want to be putting words in your mouth but that's how I read it.
What I can gather from your post way back where you broke down the trailer is there is more of a game there that IS playable than RP is making out at the minute. Maybe less content than that Frederik dude is making out but I'm just REALLY interested to know what is there. It's so sad. Seeing these 4chan leaks of folders of the game executables and low quality screenshots...it's like it's OUT THERE and JUST out of our grasp but we just can't quite touch it.
I know it's illegal and pretty frowned upon but I hope that dude on 4chan that says he has it and is willing to release it should it not come out in an official capacity by the end of the year is telling the truth because at the end of the day, we're just gaming nerds wanting to have a bash at playing a slice of history that we all thought was going to be something special. We just want to see what was there and what it could've been. It's really not much to ask.
I hate all the legality and IP owning nonsense because it's simple really....2001 build exists. Community want. People willing to release. NO YOU CAN'T HAVE BECAUSE REASONS.
Horse shit.
This post has been edited by knopparp: 03 September 2018 - 03:04 PM