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DNF 2001 Build Was Apparently Almost Complete  "3DR wants to release it, but it's up to Gearbox"

User is offline   Zor 

  • 78

#1

https://www.dsogamin...orror-elements/

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Frederik Schreiber claimed, this 2001 version packs 14-16 hours of gameplay and it played partly as an RPG in terms of goals. Players basically had Mission Objectives on their HUD and they could activate them, like quests. Furthermore, you also had an inventory with ID badges, keycards, etc.

In Duke Nukem Forever 2001, players meet and save NPCs, solve puzzles, and try and solve the mystery of what’s going on. Then they meet the infected EDF who’s attacking them and the story evolves from there.

Schreiber re-confirmed how dark that version was – at least for 2001 standards. There are scenes with lights going out, flickering in the distance, monster closets, screams in the distance. The game is also said to be very cinematic with rain for the most part and lightning strikes in the distance.

Duke Nukem Forever 2001 featured 25-ish levels in single-player and 12 levels in multiplayer (with most of them pretty much done).


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#2

Well this version certainly seems much more interesting to me than what DNF was for sure.
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User is offline   AdrenalinDragon 

  • 33

#3

DNF 2001 was still a PC game and hadn't suffered from Consolitis back then.
1

#4

The only real issue I see with this version so far at least based on what is said is the amount of hours it takes to complete, I am sure a fair amount of other games from around 2001 were a bit longer than that.

This post has been edited by Grand Admiral Thrawn: 04 March 2018 - 06:16 PM

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User is offline   KaijuTurtle 

  • 112

#5

Good lord what a tease.

View PostGrand Admiral Thrawn, on 04 March 2018 - 05:58 PM, said:

The only real issue I see with this version so far at least based on what is said is the amount of hours it takes to complete, I am sure a fair amount of other games from around 2001 were a bit longer than that.

16 hours in heaven is better than 14 years in development hell.
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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

  • Judge Mental
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#6

Duke Nukem Forever, the endless cock tease of a game.

View PostGrand Admiral Thrawn, on 04 March 2018 - 05:58 PM, said:

The only real issue I see with this version so far is the amount of hours it takes to complete, I am sure a fair amount of other games from around 2001 were a bit longer than that.




Well, who knows how much those unfinished bits would add in length. Who knows how accurate that timing is, exactly, and who knows if there weren't additional side missions and stuff that aren't being factored into that. Also, is that 14 hours rushed through or is that smelling the roses and getting lost?

The average longplay for Unreal runs - 8-10 hours.
The average longplay for Half-life - 7-8 hours.
The average longplay for SIN - 6-7 hours.
The average longplay for Quake II - 4-6 hours.

These are four of(roughly) DNF 01's contemporaries. Played by more experienced players years after the fact.

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User is online   Maisth 

  • 174

#7

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more stuff

edit: added two more

Repent and Follow Jesus!

Jesus said "I am the light of the world" John 8:12

This post has been edited by Maisth: 04 March 2018 - 06:34 PM

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User is offline   Yatta 

  • Pizza Lawyer
  • 236

  #8

Only the last two (as of your 6:34 PM PST edit) are from the leaks. The rest are in the bonus section of the official release of DNF 2011.

I love Duke4.net. It's one of my life's proudest accomplishments. I'm proud of the community we have built here and the beautiful work that comes out of it every day. I'm proud of the friends I've made here and the kind people who made all of this possible with their hard work, donations, and participation. Thank you.
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User is offline   stumppy84 

  • 55

#9

Looks interesting and I hope that we do get to see these one day soon! Nice to see ya Yatta!
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User is offline   JumpJuneJump 

  • 3,018

#10

Man those icons bring back some memories.
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User is offline   Honza 

  • 12

#11

1) Apparently those saying that the old versions were very incomplete were not telling the truth to say the least.

2) Not sure what that remaining 10 % means money & time wise to complete but I believe it's in best interest of everyone involved to release it to public otherwise it's written off, if I was the guy that spend time on it I would want it released even if it was for free.

3) Worst case scenario - it "leaks" somehow.

Thought - what if all the items replaced within game referring to Duke were replaced with say "D" or "Jack" ? That would basically solve everything and the only thing we need to see is the radiation logo which is and always was public domain:
https://commons.wiki...ning_symbol.svg

Once we see the radiation symbol no further explanation is necessary :)
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User is offline   brullov 

  • BAZINGA!
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#12

In gamedev the last 10% are 90%.
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 823

#13

View PostHonza, on 04 March 2018 - 10:07 PM, said:

1) Apparently those saying that the old versions were very incomplete were not telling the truth to say the least.

2) Not sure what that remaining 10 % means money & time wise to complete but I believe it's in best interest of everyone involved to release it to public otherwise it's written off, if I was the guy that spend time on it I would want it released even if it was for free.

3) Worst case scenario - it "leaks" somehow.

Thought - what if all the items replaced within game referring to Duke were replaced with say "D" or "Jack" ? That would basically solve everything and the only thing we need to see is the radiation logo which is and always was public domain:
https://commons.wiki...ning_symbol.svg

Once we see the radiation symbol no further explanation is necessary :)


2K/Gearbox own any and all Duke related stuff, including old builds. It wouldn't be legal to repurpose stuff originally developed to be DNF, change a few things, and release without the permission of 2K
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User is offline   Honza 

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#14

View PostHulkNukem, on 04 March 2018 - 10:29 PM, said:

2K/Gearbox own any and all Duke related stuff, including old builds. It wouldn't be legal to repurpose stuff originally developed to be DNF, change a few things, and release without the permission of 2K


But who can actually tell what was the original Duke and what was created new?

Seeing lawyers arguing over whether the story where a guy fights aliens from the future as IP theft would be truly hilarious, would the main argument be that the guy in this clone has more muscle than usual and as such violating IP?

To me it's like when Russia made singing competition clone "Star Factory" based on "The Voice" which was originally from USA.
https://en.wikipedia...(U.S._TV_series)
https://en.wikipedia.../Fabrika_Zvyozd

As far as I know it and it was ongoing for 15 years and nobody did anything about.
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User is offline   Bloodshot 

  • 762

#15

I was wondering when somebody was gonna post this here, I always assumed DNF 2001 was gonna be like HL1 but this sounds way more ambitious for the time then i expected.

Also this is gonna sound crazy, but I could've sworn a long time ago i saw some sort of fake leaked footage on youtube from the 01 build - it was just some sort of test level with catwalks and a skybox and some soldiers. Like 2 days after i saw it it completely disappeared and i never found it again, I just assumed it was faked and a joke, but now i wonder if maybe it was real

This also fucking sucks because I had accepted duke's franchise death and moved on, and now that I know this shit was in fact real DNF 2001 has been reawakened in me and if we don't get it it's like unfinished business in my head.


Where's the discord that fred from nu-3dr hangs out in? I wanna pick his brain about this more.

This post has been edited by Bloodshot: 04 March 2018 - 11:57 PM

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User is offline   necroslut 

  • 207

#16

I just hope Fred talking about it like this doesn't ruin the chances of it actually getting released in some form.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 823

#17

View PostHonza, on 04 March 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

But who can actually tell what was the original Duke and what was created new?

Seeing lawyers arguing over whether the story where a guy fights aliens from the future as IP theft would be truly hilarious, would the main argument be that the guy in this clone has more muscle than usual and as such violating IP?

To me it's like when Russia made singing competition clone "Star Factory" based on "The Voice" which was originally from USA.
https://en.wikipedia...(U.S._TV_series)
https://en.wikipedia.../Fabrika_Zvyozd

As far as I know it and it was ongoing for 15 years and nobody did anything about.


All the assets were still created for DNF; simply slapping a new texture over them doesn't make them new. You would need to completely remake everything from scratch, models textures animations sounds levels code etc etc. At that point it's not even worth it and you might as well make a brand new game anyways.
If this leaks without 2K's consent, someone is going to get in trouble. I really hope it doesn't and 2K instead for some reason allows it to be released as is.
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User is offline   JumpJuneJump 

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#18

View Postnecroslut, on 05 March 2018 - 12:00 AM, said:

I just hope Fred talking about it like this doesn't ruin the chances of it actually getting released in some form.

To be honest I feel like Fred is now *over* selling how complete it was though it was certainly far more complete than was commonly understood for a long time. Right before I was in the car wreck in late 2001 and missed a couple of months of work (which is when the lighting change started to infect the project), I had worked with George to help push for a concerted effort to get every level represented and walkable start to finish including linking level loads. It was a very successful push and laid the groundwork for what I believe Fred/etc are seeing. Then my ex tried to kill me and I may have in fact died and woke up in an alternate universe where DNF2k1 was doomed to always being just out of reach.

Anyways, I think it's worth noting there was a whole lot there worth playing and seeing, but wouldn't go so far as to slap 90% on it.

I'm sure it will get released *eventually* because time has a way of making the hangups of the past seem less important to people... just no idea when that might be.

There were some other "new" shots the person posted in the original thread if you manage to track it down. They're legit.

This post has been edited by SpotsSpot'sSpots: 05 March 2018 - 01:09 AM

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User is offline   Dacoolguy 

  • 7

#19

What server do I have to hack in order to release this to the public and also play it myself?
I am fully able and willing to do this and take full legal responsibility for it and I know I won't be caught.
I've leaked high profile games before, it's not the first time I would be doing this.
If Fred wants this leaked, I can do it for everybody's sake ;)
Just hit me via pm and I will do it since I run a huge and powerful community that is aimed at doing just that!
Give me the leak's responsibility and then call the FBI on me, if needed and call me a thief / leaker / hacker and the problem is solved.
I can make 2018 a much more eventful year in the gaming community if I leak this to the public.
Every major gaming news site and youtube channel will be talking about this.
Finally the REAL Duke Nukem Forever would be out for everyone to finally judge and see if it was all that it seemed to be back in 2001.

This post has been edited by Dacoolguy: 05 March 2018 - 07:25 AM

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User is offline   TheZombieKiller 

  • 287

#20

View PostBloodshot, on 04 March 2018 - 11:54 PM, said:

Also this is gonna sound crazy, but I could've sworn a long time ago i saw some sort of fake leaked footage on youtube from the 01 build - it was just some sort of test level with catwalks and a skybox and some soldiers. Like 2 days after i saw it it completely disappeared and i never found it again, I just assumed it was faked and a joke, but now i wonder if maybe it was real

I saw that too years ago, it was just a hoax made in FPS Creator (the pistol you see in the video is from FPS Creator model pack 5: https://www.youtube....UxlVclXZk&t=43s). It was amusing to see them film the "game disc" and everything to try and give it more authenticity.
I've tried to track the video down to see it again just for the amusement, but it appears to have completely disappeared.

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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 93

#21

The world deserves to get this version after all the tease that went on for years and in the end just to get disappointed with that final released quickly hacked together version.

I'm ready to bet my money that this one has stood the test of time because it's the real deal and thus worlds better than 2011 one.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 315

#22

View Postspessu_sb, on 05 March 2018 - 03:48 PM, said:

I'm ready to bet my money that this one has stood the test of time because it's the real deal and thus worlds better than 2011 one.

Well it stood the test of time so much that it was scrapped and never finished. It would be awesome to see this version of the game as a curiosity but rest assured that as a video games it's unfinished and sucks ass. The fondness that is associated with DNF 2001 comes from an E3 trailer, that's all and I'd like remind you that the trailer for DNF 2011 was awesome as hell too.

This? This looks like an amazing game:

The finished product? Not so much.

What I'd be interested in as a full fledged game is if they'd actually polish up and finish it or - which would be even better in my opinion - use the ideas from there as inspiration for a new game. A more open Duke game with a hub world, missions, lots of character interactions, a more serious tone and a horror-like atmosphere is just fascinating, it really feels like a potential path for the Duke 3D design to evolve to.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 05 March 2018 - 06:15 PM

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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 93

#23

View PostZaxx, on 05 March 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

Well it stood the test of time so much that it was scrapped and never finished. It would be awesome to see this version of the game as a curiosity but rest assured that as a video games it's unfinished and sucks ass. The fondness that is associated with DNF 2001 comes from an E3 trailer, that's all and I'd like remind you that the trailer for DNF 2011 was awesome as hell too.

This? This looks like an amazing game:

The finished product? Not so much.

What I'd be interested in as a full fledged game is if they'd actually polish up and finish it or - which would be even better in my opinion - use the ideas from there as inspiration for a new game. A more open Duke game with a hub world, missions, lots of character interactions, a more serious tone and a horror-like atmosphere is just fascinating, it really feels like a potential path for the Duke 3D design to evolve to.

Maybe you haven't read what Charlie has written here and so, what Fred has described it literally features based on him inspecting those builds first hand.

It was scrapped because GEORGE wanted the (at the time visuals) to be updated because they would have not given Doom 3 or HL2 a competition. Big sacrifice to scrap everything even if no else wanted but George. Endless loop of just to keep adding on whatever it was that George wanted DNF to feature, the latest and greatest idea/feature any other game had shown. But I disagree like I think many gamers would, in that yeah visually DNF01 may have not challenged neither those upcoming games really but in gameplay it would have raw beaten them.
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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 315

#24

View Postspessu_sb, on 05 March 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

It was scrapped because GEORGE wanted the (at the time visuals) to be updated because they would have not given Doom 3 or HL2 a competition. Big sacrifice to scrap everything even if no else wanted but George. Endless loop of just to keep adding on whatever it was that George wanted DNF to feature, the latest and greatest idea/feature any other game had shown. But I disagree like I think many gamers would, in that yeah visually DNF01 may have not challenged neither those upcoming games really but in gameplay it would have raw beaten them.

I get it but you know, that's just speculation and the last "10%" that is missing from the game is chances are very important. The mechanics may not be polished, even if it has audio it mostly must be placeholder (the part about the orchestral soundtrack at least proves that there is something though), there must be tons of bugs and missing things. What qualifies as a video game for a gamer is surely not there.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 05 March 2018 - 06:40 PM

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User is offline   NukeA6 

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#25

90% complete yet we had to wait a decade for any version to release. What I want to know is how a game that was so different and promising ended up being a mediocre modern shooter that recycles just about every weapon and enemy from Duke3D. The only things that were anywhere decent were the shrunken Duke segments and the parts in single player DLC before Dr. Proton is beaten. Speaking of the doc, he should have been the main villain in the first place.

This post has been edited by NukeA6: 05 March 2018 - 06:49 PM

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User is offline   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer
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#26

View PostNukeA6, on 05 March 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

90% complete yet we had to wait a decade for any version to release. What I want to know is how a game that was so different and promising ended up being a mediocre modern shooter that recycles just about every weapon and enemy from Duke3D.


Terrible management decisions.
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User is offline   Commando Nukem 

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#27

View PostZaxx, on 05 March 2018 - 06:38 PM, said:

I get it but you know, that's just speculation and the last "10%" that is missing from the game is chances are very important. The mechanics may not be polished, even if it has audio it mostly must be placeholder (the part about the orchestral soundtrack at least proves that there is something though), there must be tons of bugs and missing things. What qualifies as a video game for a gamer is surely not there.


With respect, I'd say that it is you that is speculating. Though, to be totally honest until the "if and when" we get our hands on anything from this version, we're all basically talking out of our asses with the exception of Wieder and Fred. They're the ones that have actually seen what was there and been involved. Though, ironically enough I think it's likely now with this dropping, that a lot of people with any in-the-know information are going to dummy up. Who knows what kind of shit storm these leaks could stir up for that situation. The feet dragging is really irritating.

However, we have heard from Wieder, Fred, and other former developers on what went down behind the scenes, and what the status of both the 1998 and 2001 builds were. 1998 was pretty much entirely showcased in the trailer(Though I have heard there was an extended sequence on the jet-ski that was never really showed outside of a closed demonstration). Nevertheless, what we've heard is not a pretty picture.

I'll be the last person to put words in anyone's mouth, but I will definitely give one of my long winded diatribes on the matter...

IMO

In a nutshell - Real-time dynamic lighting killed Duke Nukem Forever's success. Which is funny because a lot of the lighting in the final game looks like garbage. Willy-nilly changing the entire visual aesthetic for Los Vegas from night to day when the assets were clearly modeled for night was a terrible fucking idea, and no, I do not buy for one second that it was a performance issue.

RE: The debut trailer, I have to strongly disagree. The 2011 trailer did nothing to inspire my confidence, and there were several of us at the time who were muttering things like "Oh... Oh no..." Because the tone is all fucked up. It starts out promising, with that gritty narration and the dramatic music, and that semi-clever "mother(ships)" pun. Then it just nose dives with the emphasis being on the sophomoric humor and... That music just doesn't fit the character. Oh, it fits the released DNF tone to a T, but it does not fit the character of Duke Nukem as I knew him. Not at all. Sums up my feelings about the PAX reveal as well. Gleeful excitement, a proud smirk and a nod.... Slowly fading... Uh... Seeing some issues here. Two weapon-limit, the humor is off, seems very scripted and linear... Totalbiscuit's videos on DNF really sum up the typical Duke fan's drop from gleeful excitement to "What a f*cking waste."

(demo)

(five hours in)

What a sharp drop in excitement. Jesus Christ.


There is one thing I wish I could go back and communicate to Mr. Broussard about his own legacy at that time... Duke Nukem 3D, although it's very feature-rich for it's time, was not at the technical frontier when it came out. Gaming publications were quick to point that out. That was Quake's domain. However, Duke Nukem 3D stands up far better than Quake because Duke Nukem used the technology it had to it's absolute fullest, whereas Quake, though a technical powerhouse, was more of a "safe bet" showcase of the new technology. Funny enough, in drastic contrast to what seems to have happened during the development of Forever, Duke 3D confidently SNEERS at Quake. "I AIN'T AFRAID OF NO QUAKE." You know why? We got something in the bag.

That's the fate I foresee for the 01 build of Duke Nukem Forever if it had made it out by the end of 2002 going into Q1 2003. Irregardless of the Doom 3's, or Half-Life 2's. If they had pushed themselves through the year after E3 01 and gotten the game done for launch Christmas 2002, they would have had another huge hit. Lauded not for necessarily cutting edge graphics, but for a slick style, substance of gameplay, atmosphere.

A painting layered onto the canvas with brushes used to their fullest. I'm going by first hand accounts from what the game was like, all the screenshots, the E3 2001 trailer with Wieder's additional context to what was legit and what was bogus. DNF 2001, even if it's a glitchy unfinished mess right now, is probably still a better game than 2011's version could ever hope to be. I would love to see a play through of that mission Fred described of the EDF base. Apparently it was 2 hours and pretty much "done" if those leaked chats are anything to go by.

View PostNukeA6, on 05 March 2018 - 06:48 PM, said:

90% complete yet we had to wait a decade for any version to release. What I want to know is how a game that was so different and promising ended up being a mediocre modern shooter that recycles just about every weapon and enemy from Duke3D. The only things that were anywhere decent were the shrunken Duke segments and the parts in single player DLC before Dr. Proton is beaten. Speaking of the doc, he should have been the main villain in the first place.


Proton was the main villain for quite some time in DNF. That's why Manhattan Project had to change the villain to "Mech Morphix." This was such a minimalist change that there are still references to Proton in MP. One of Duke's lines is called "du_proton.ogg"

He was intended to be part of the final version as well, but they carved out some of those bits and made a DLC out of them. The way those pieces tied into the full game was on a far grander scale, including several levels where you played as Bombshell, seemingly killing Duke at one point. It tied that strip club fever-dream section into the narrative in a more meaningful way.

George's "cutting is shipping" line perhaps was more understated than we thought. When you compare the released game and DLC to the spread-sheets and the stuff said by developers of what would ultimately become the released version, it's clearly more like Jack Nicholson taking a fucking axe to the game to lop off content.

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User is offline   Never Forgotten 

  • 221

#28

Here's what I think needs to happen. 3D Realms needs to talk to Gearbox, and see if they can work together and finish the game, then release it. They could promote it like In Maiden, as a throwback game... Or, they could overhaul it and redo the game, without cutting anything, with a modern engine to make it look like say... Doom 2016.

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User is offline   Mike Norvak 

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#29

View PostNever Forgotten, on 05 March 2018 - 09:23 PM, said:

Or, they could overhaul it and redo the game, without cutting anything, with a modern engine to make it look like say... Doom 2016.


And when is almost finished in 2021 they switch to a newer engine because it will look dated.
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User is offline   Never Forgotten 

  • 221

#30

What I'm saying is make the game as it was, but with an updated engine. Even if it looks dated when it's released, at least it will be able to complete... I know what you said was a joke, but that was a reply to those who think of that seriously.

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