Come check out my second map "testers wanted"
#1 Posted 10 January 2018 - 07:25 AM
I'm looking for feedback the good the bad and the ugly, so I can make improvements.
This map is a little bit more elaborate than my last map conference center, in this map Duke is trying to penetrate a underground military base, there are hidden areas and difficulty settings and much more.
It can be played in vanilla version but its better with duke plus.
My map Duke Fortress download link below:
https://ufile.io/rva8c
#2 Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:51 AM
some of the cave tunnels, rooms, & halls are a bit cramped.
gameplay wise - it's definitely a dukeplus map. I'm going to guess the player is supposed to be able to pick up explosive barrels or senines to carry over to the wall cracks.
Even if these few extra stashes are collected, this level is still severely under-supplied. From the number of enemy stuffed into this map, there is not even close to enough health and ammo needed to get by them all. If they were avoidable, that'd be different - but in this instance, there's no way to get around them in those narrow passages & small rooms.
The pitch-black bottomless cavern could use another set of nvgs around the point where the player transitions from one cliff-face terrace across to the other side.
it's also easy for the player to choose the "wrong" direction at the start & end up in the pitch-black cavern with no chaingun, no ammo, & no nvg. That's a personal design choice though, if you want to punish the player for picking wrong.
#3 Posted 10 January 2018 - 05:28 PM
None of the doors were working for me either. At first I thought it was intentional and I figured that you were supposed to use the vent system in order to navigate the second area of the map but after getting the jet pack, I have absolutely no idea where to go. I made both switches green but nothing changed. I gave up at this point to check with you whether or not the doors are supposed to open normally but I'm sitting at 7 health now - the pit where you jump down to get the pipe bomb and jet pack totally wrecked me. Fall damage + toxic sludge + multiple chaingunners at the bottom. Is there another way to get down there?
I've never used Duke Plus but I'll check it out. It's a fun map and I'd like to finish. I appreciate the challenge compared to the original 4 episodes, which were mostly too easy.
#4 Posted 10 January 2018 - 06:41 PM
Poorchop, on 10 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:
to be more specific
cramped:
i managed to get squished in the natural rock tunnels
i could barely move around in a couple rooms - especially the one with hidden rpg
one of the ventilation shafts is somewhat difficult to enter (the one in the room with the broken up walkways & ooze floor, iirc)
Poorchop, on 10 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:
there are four or five switches that need to be thrown in order to open the doors.
finding them all and finding where to go after getting the jetpak is kinda confusing - i don't remember where I went, but I stumbled into the 'military base' styled section. I think the entrance is somewhere near where the player first enters into the section with all the locked doors.
All I remember is using the pipebomb on the wall at the top of the ooze room near where the player first enters that room - going through some vents and throwing a few more switches. Then some aimless wandering before I happened across the entrance to the next section.
asfaik, there's only one way down to get the jetpak - I don't know why the floor isn't tagged as water - that would remove the fall damage at least.
Once the player manages to get past this section and into the 'military base' portion, the number of enemies increases quite a bit. By the time I got there I was almost dead and pretty much out of ammo. I had to godmode cheat to finish.
This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 06:59 PM
#5 Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:02 PM
I think that this can still be challenging with more ammo. You don't need to throw a ton of ammo at the player but it's definitely impossible to kill everything, at least without being able to pick up explosive barrels to get the ammo stuck behind cracks in the walls. I also agree that a second pair of NVGs after you work your way around the ledges would be nice. I forgot to mention that I really like the platforming. There isn't a ton of it at least up to the point where I stopped, but I enjoyed all of it up to that point.
#6 Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:35 PM
Poorchop, on 10 January 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:
I think that this can still be challenging with more ammo. You don't need to throw a ton of ammo at the player but it's definitely impossible to kill everything, at least without being able to pick up explosive barrels to get the ammo stuck behind cracks in the walls. I also agree that a second pair of NVGs after you work your way around the ledges would be nice. I forgot to mention that I really like the platforming. There isn't a ton of it at least up to the point where I stopped, but I enjoyed all of it up to that point.
Thanks for the feedback guys, I have a new and improved version of the map.
Get it here now:
https://ufile.io/rt6dj
This is supposed to be a tough map Duke is on his own with limited supplies, he has to improvise and struggle to survive. I think the initial two atomic healths is enough for Duke to get through the first part of the map,
and presently I'm not going to change that... However I did put some more ammunition in the first part of the map so things aren't so rough, but you still have to be cautious.
Other changes:
In the starting area the player must blow up a wall before you can gain access to the dark cave area.
In the dark cave area there is another nvgs next to the ledges.
In the waterfall's slime cave area, within snake way path there's some hidden supplies.
In the waterfall slime base area while passing through the air ducts there's a whole showing the next objective.
With inside the base I put in a little bit more health and ammunition.
#7 Posted 10 January 2018 - 10:32 PM
i'll double check this version.
also for the first version: the map is a bit easier in dukeplus.
This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 10:36 PM
#8 Posted 10 January 2018 - 10:55 PM
there are seenine that are present when playing the map with dukeplus that are not there when using normal vanilla eduke32.
that's why it was a little easier to conserve some ammo and health with dukeplus vs. vanilla.
I looked at them in mapster & didn't see anything about them as to why some show up in game & some don't when playing vanilla.
Somebody should double-check just to make sure its not happening only on my comp. I don't want to report something that isn't universal to everyone.
using r4176 with dukeplus
EDuke32 r6569 with vanilla
version 2 of the map:
When the player goes down the narrow path and encounters the first octabrain to the lower right, drop down there & walk around the corner - after a bit there should be wall crack & two seenine. In vanilla, there's only one seenine.
In the chamber with the chaingun there should be two seenine - one up top next to a wall & one down in a crevice - in vanilla, neither are there.
I haven't played any farther.
This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 11:17 PM
#9 Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:21 PM
The ammo situation is a lot more improved. I thought that the progression was good too. Once you get to the military compound area, the game play opens up a lot with more weapons and ammo at your disposal. It still managed to stay pretty challenging and I liked it. The ending key card sequence felt a little sudden to me though. You get the blue and then you pretty much instantly get the yellow and red. I spent way too long looking for the red lock only to remember that it was back at the start of the area. Here are some issues/bugs that I found:
-possible to get crushed just by standing up while picking up the second pair of NVGs
-missing rock wall texture where you get the chaingun (tiny gray sliver where the Octabrains are hiding)
-consider adding water to the area where you get electrocuted for walking on the floor to make it clear to the player that the whole area is dangerous without boots
-going off point above, would be really nice to give the player a second pair of boots - mine expired right before I got the jet pack and I was losing tons of health to toxic sludge
-you still take fall damage when dropping down to get the jet pack - if you don't have over 20 health, you will pretty much die here every time with fall damage + enemy attack
The biggest issue I could see people having is with explosives being necessary for the progression. I know you sealed off the beginning area as per Forge's suggestion but the pipe bomb you need to break the wall is all the way at the very end of the first area. A complete newbie to this map might just waste the pipe bomb while fighting the two Ocatabrains where you pick up the chain gun. I accidentally threw the pipe bomb due to weapon autoswtiching but I remembered not to waste it since I knew that I needed it to advance.
I realized that I got stuck on my first play through because I needed to blow up another wall to access the final switch. I remember only have one pipe bomb in my inventory at this point. Luckily I took a gamble on blowing up that wall instead of wasting the pipe bomb on something else. In the regular episodes, the level designers usually give you explosives close to where you need to break a wall in order to advance. That way, there is a less of a chance that you get stuck because you wasted the explosives on enemies. It didn't hinder me but it's just something to keep in mind for the future.
Anyways, please excuse the wall of text. Overall it was a fun, challenging map and I enjoyed it. Great work and nice fixes.
#10 Posted 10 January 2018 - 11:44 PM
This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 11:45 PM
#11 Posted 11 January 2018 - 12:05 AM
#12 Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:45 AM
after crossing the dark chasm & entering the ooze cavern with the protective boots - the seenine next to the crack in that cavern & the seenine next to the crack in the loop that comes out behind the waterfall are missing in the vanilla version.
that's two stashes of ammo that the player can't get.
#13 Posted 11 January 2018 - 11:23 AM
A few texture mis- alignments/stretching and shading issues, but nothing too distracting.
In the beginning of the map - after the crack is opened and the player enters the small tunnel on the way to the dark chasm - there's a part where it opens up with small recesses to the left and to the right - the sector that is towards the chasm at that "four-way" intersection should be made a half tick taller or the floor lowered a half-tick. That's where I keep getting randomly squished.
This post has been edited by Forge: 11 January 2018 - 11:23 AM
#14 Posted 11 January 2018 - 06:51 PM
#15 Posted 11 January 2018 - 08:48 PM
Forge, on 10 January 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:
there are seenine that are present when playing the map with dukeplus that are not there when using normal vanilla eduke32.
that's why it was a little easier to conserve some ammo and health with dukeplus vs. vanilla.
I looked at them in mapster & didn't see anything about them as to why some show up in game & some don't when playing vanilla.
Somebody should double-check just to make sure its not happening only on my comp. I don't want to report something that isn't universal to everyone.
using r4176 with dukeplus
EDuke32 r6569 with vanilla
version 2 of the map:
When the player goes down the narrow path and encounters the first octabrain to the lower right, drop down there & walk around the corner - after a bit there should be wall crack & two seenine. In vanilla, there's only one seenine.
In the chamber with the chaingun there should be two seenine - one up top next to a wall & one down in a crevice - in vanilla, neither are there.
I haven't played any farther.
I've made fixes to the map, get the third version here:
https://ufile.io/qy48o
Fixes:
The seenine is an odd problem that they would show up in duke plus but not in vanilla, I've replaced those seenine with the exploding barrels, and now you can gain access to those secret areas in vanilla.
A second pair of protective boots have been added.
The slime pit with the monster has been raised up a little bit, reducing Duke's fall damage.
Second pair of NVGs ceiling has been raised up a bit, overall tight passages with low ceilings have been raised up a bit.
#16 Posted 11 January 2018 - 09:47 PM
I would say the balance is pretty good, but now I'm getting to the point where I know the location of all the enemies and supplies. My impartiality is becoming impaired towards balance due to familiarity.
the only thing I really came across was blowing up the crack in the dark chasm - it left an extra - undestroyed crack sprite
you should make a sweep and clean up the over-stretched and misaligned textures & make sure everything is shaded properly (like in the vent shaft that's accessed with a pipebomb in the ooze room with the jetpack - above the NVG's is at full-bright 0 & is low enough to be seen)
also make a text template for your map - so people know who made it.
This post has been edited by Forge: 11 January 2018 - 09:48 PM
#17 Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:07 AM
By the way, here's the missing texture that I was talking about. It's a very tiny sliver at the end of the first two area where you fight two Octabrains and get the the chainguner, pipe bomb, and NVGs. Right above the cross hair in this screenshot.
#18 Posted 12 January 2018 - 05:40 AM
Poorchop, on 12 January 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:
The barrel wasn't there in previous versions.
It's a trap. You can't get back unless you already have the jetpak. If a player sees it early, shoots the barrel, & jumps down there - they're stuck.
I'd recommend getting rid of that barrel. If the player wants that stash, they can come back with an rpg, or after they get the box of pipebombs.
Either that, or put in some way for the player to jump-climb their way out.
This post has been edited by Forge: 12 January 2018 - 05:44 AM
#19 Posted 13 January 2018 - 03:45 AM
Forge, on 10 January 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:
I played the second version of the map and I agree with this. From the start it's clear that blowing up cracks are going to be an important gameplay element, so I don't think the limited amount of pipe bombs is unfair. Seems the issues I had have been fixed already with the third version.
Overall it's a solid, enjoyable map, I liked how the underground base was structured (having to gradually unlock entire sections and having to explore).
Design wise both the caves and the base look well designed. The control rooms inside the base had a few odd texture choises though.
Seeing walls of blue marble in a hi-tech environment was a bit strange. But that's the only negative I can think of.
#21 Posted 29 January 2018 - 10:31 PM
the first part of the map is still a little rough around the edges, but it's basically ready to play. When you open the EXIT door and killed the monster inside that is the end of the level for now. The other half of the map the base section I will finish later.
I played the game in vanilla Duke seems to be working just fine. I need game testers, feedback would be appreciated.
Here's my updated map:
https://ufile.io/ypp0o
#22 Posted 30 January 2018 - 09:49 AM
-First off, I really liked the platforming at the beginning. Even though you opened the space up a lot more, I still felt like it was pretty challenging. There were a lot of enemies to keep me on my toes.
-Some of the ambushes were nice, like when you're going through the toxic waste tunnels.
-Health and armor placement felt pretty on point to me.
-You weren't stingy with equipment but you didn't throw too much as the player either - nice balance there with the jetpack, NVGs, and boots.
-The platforming in the second area with the death pit was really butt-clenching and I liked that too.
-Incorporating some outdoor areas really tied the map together in a good way. I like how the map starts out in the outdoor beginning area and the second outdoor area was very nicely done. I really liked the way that it looked.
-I like how you kind of forced the player to notice important areas now - there's a "window" revealing the crack in the wall in the second outdoor area so that it's more obvious where you need to go now once you get the pipe bomb.
This was pretty impressive overall. You managed to retain some of the original designs but you made them work in a much better fashion. If I had any critiques, it would be that the pistol ammo felt just a little tight at the beginning especially if you don't try to explore behind waterfalls, but it was still manageable. I'm also assuming that you'll tag secrets when you're done with the rest of the map because there were definitely some areas that could've counted as secrets.
There was also one oddity: looked like an invisible wall here. Those are the bullet marks that you see.
This post has been edited by Poorchop: 30 January 2018 - 09:56 AM
#23 Posted 30 January 2018 - 02:51 PM
leaving bullet tags because it may be 'hittable' ?
#24 Posted 31 January 2018 - 05:27 PM
block the cliff-faces at the beginning - the player can get up high with some jumping and end up getting squished, or get a view that just looks ugly.
just my opinion, but all those ooze rivers & lakes should be tagged as water
the dark canyon section can be mostly skipped by jumping straight across instead of having to travel down one side & coming back up the other - this skips all that fun rock jumping in the dark w/NVGs
and I got stuck.
hit all the switches & unlocked the doors - went to the door marked exit - killed the octabrain - & now I don't know where to go.
This post has been edited by Forge: 31 January 2018 - 05:28 PM
#25 Posted 31 January 2018 - 07:38 PM
Forge, on 31 January 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:
hit all the switches & unlocked the doors - went to the door marked exit - killed the octabrain - & now I don't know where to go.
He said it's not finished yet. That's the end of the level:
One Man Army, on 29 January 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:
#26 Posted 31 January 2018 - 10:03 PM
Poorchop, on 31 January 2018 - 07:38 PM, said:
derp!
I'm slightly distracted
This post has been edited by Forge: 31 January 2018 - 10:06 PM
#27 Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:49 PM
Here's my updated map:
https://ufile.io/d66mf
#28 Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:47 AM
you added a chaingun and a bunch of enemy, but you didn't compensate for the possibility that more enemies means the player is going to take more damage - and possible fall damage since the ooze is still hard floor instead of tagged as water.
haven't gotten much past the (2nd) pipebomb crack. died during the first encounter in the dark chasm area after being shot once by a liztroop.
#29 Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:45 PM
can still jump straight across the chasm - doing the jump puzzle all the way around that section doesn't really reward the player except for a couple boxes of ammo for a weapon they don't even have yet.
the cracks in the rpg room are pretty small and unnoticeable. i almost shut the game off because I thought i had reached a point where you had stopped working on it.
#30 Posted 09 February 2018 - 09:36 AM
New version now available: https://ufile.io/br0ef