Duke4.net Forums: Come check out my second map - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Hide message Show message
Welcome to the Duke4.net Forums!

Register an account now to get access to all board features. After you've registered and logged in, you'll be able to create topics, post replies, send and receive private messages, disable the viewing of ads and more!

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Come check out my second map  "testers wanted"

User is offline   One Man Army 

  • 11

#1

This is my second map, I have been working on it for about a month, now available.
I'm looking for feedback the good the bad and the ugly, so I can make improvements.

This map is a little bit more elaborate than my last map conference center, in this map Duke is trying to penetrate a underground military base, there are hidden areas and difficulty settings and much more.

It can be played in vanilla version but its better with duke plus.

My map Duke Fortress download link below:
https://ufile.io/rva8c
3

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#2

visually, other than a few texture over-stretches & mis-alignments, it looks good.

some of the cave tunnels, rooms, & halls are a bit cramped.

gameplay wise - it's definitely a dukeplus map. I'm going to guess the player is supposed to be able to pick up explosive barrels or senines to carry over to the wall cracks.
Even if these few extra stashes are collected, this level is still severely under-supplied. From the number of enemy stuffed into this map, there is not even close to enough health and ammo needed to get by them all. If they were avoidable, that'd be different - but in this instance, there's no way to get around them in those narrow passages & small rooms.

The pitch-black bottomless cavern could use another set of nvgs around the point where the player transitions from one cliff-face terrace across to the other side.

it's also easy for the player to choose the "wrong" direction at the start & end up in the pitch-black cavern with no chaingun, no ammo, & no nvg. That's a personal design choice though, if you want to punish the player for picking wrong.
0

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#3

I was playing vanilla and I agree with some of what Forge said. I personally liked the relatively cramped spaces at the start because it made for a much greater challenge. The enemies were perfect starting off and I felt like there was just enough ammo to keep things very tense. However, I quickly started running out of ammo to the point where I had to skip groups of enemies and abuse what seemed to be unintentional shortcuts. For example, in the area where you get the boots, you're supposed to go behind the waterfall and circle around, hop across a few columns, and get to the open area on the top. I was just able to stand on top of one of the barrels and jump in order to skip the waterfall area and all of the enemies behind it completely.

None of the doors were working for me either. At first I thought it was intentional and I figured that you were supposed to use the vent system in order to navigate the second area of the map but after getting the jet pack, I have absolutely no idea where to go. I made both switches green but nothing changed. I gave up at this point to check with you whether or not the doors are supposed to open normally but I'm sitting at 7 health now - the pit where you jump down to get the pipe bomb and jet pack totally wrecked me. Fall damage + toxic sludge + multiple chaingunners at the bottom. Is there another way to get down there?

I've never used Duke Plus but I'll check it out. It's a fun map and I'd like to finish. I appreciate the challenge compared to the original 4 episodes, which were mostly too easy.
0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#4

View PostPoorchop, on 10 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

I was playing vanilla and I agree with some of what Forge said. I personally liked the relatively cramped spaces at the start because it made for a much greater challenge.

to be more specific
cramped:
i managed to get squished in the natural rock tunnels
i could barely move around in a couple rooms - especially the one with hidden rpg
one of the ventilation shafts is somewhat difficult to enter (the one in the room with the broken up walkways & ooze floor, iirc)

View PostPoorchop, on 10 January 2018 - 05:28 PM, said:

None of the doors were working for me either. At first I thought it was intentional and I figured that you were supposed to use the vent system in order to navigate the second area of the map but after getting the jet pack, I have absolutely no idea where to go. I made both switches green but nothing changed. I gave up at this point to check with you whether or not the doors are supposed to open normally but I'm sitting at 7 health now - the pit where you jump down to get the pipe bomb and jet pack totally wrecked me. Fall damage + toxic sludge + multiple chaingunners at the bottom. Is there another way to get down there?

there are four or five switches that need to be thrown in order to open the doors.
finding them all and finding where to go after getting the jetpak is kinda confusing - i don't remember where I went, but I stumbled into the 'military base' styled section. I think the entrance is somewhere near where the player first enters into the section with all the locked doors.
All I remember is using the pipebomb on the wall at the top of the ooze room near where the player first enters that room - going through some vents and throwing a few more switches. Then some aimless wandering before I happened across the entrance to the next section.

asfaik, there's only one way down to get the jetpak - I don't know why the floor isn't tagged as water - that would remove the fall damage at least.

Once the player manages to get past this section and into the 'military base' portion, the number of enemies increases quite a bit. By the time I got there I was almost dead and pretty much out of ammo. I had to godmode cheat to finish.

This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 06:59 PM

0

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#5

Yeah the ventilation shaft in the room with the walkways was really hard to enter. I was afraid for a little while that I was going to run out of jetpack fuel trying to squeeze in there. I'm not sure where to go after that point though. I guess I'll need to look around more.

I think that this can still be challenging with more ammo. You don't need to throw a ton of ammo at the player but it's definitely impossible to kill everything, at least without being able to pick up explosive barrels to get the ammo stuck behind cracks in the walls. I also agree that a second pair of NVGs after you work your way around the ledges would be nice. I forgot to mention that I really like the platforming. There isn't a ton of it at least up to the point where I stopped, but I enjoyed all of it up to that point.
0

User is offline   One Man Army 

  • 11

#6

View PostPoorchop, on 10 January 2018 - 09:02 PM, said:

Yeah the ventilation shaft in the room with the walkways was really hard to enter. I was afraid for a little while that I was going to run out of jetpack fuel trying to squeeze in there. I'm not sure where to go after that point though. I guess I'll need to look around more.

I think that this can still be challenging with more ammo. You don't need to throw a ton of ammo at the player but it's definitely impossible to kill everything, at least without being able to pick up explosive barrels to get the ammo stuck behind cracks in the walls. I also agree that a second pair of NVGs after you work your way around the ledges would be nice. I forgot to mention that I really like the platforming. There isn't a ton of it at least up to the point where I stopped, but I enjoyed all of it up to that point.


Thanks for the feedback guys, I have a new and improved version of the map.

Get it here now:
https://ufile.io/rt6dj

This is supposed to be a tough map Duke is on his own with limited supplies, he has to improvise and struggle to survive. I think the initial two atomic healths is enough for Duke to get through the first part of the map,
and presently I'm not going to change that... However I did put some more ammunition in the first part of the map so things aren't so rough, but you still have to be cautious.

Other changes:
In the starting area the player must blow up a wall before you can gain access to the dark cave area.
In the dark cave area there is another nvgs next to the ledges.
In the waterfall's slime cave area, within snake way path there's some hidden supplies.
In the waterfall slime base area while passing through the air ducts there's a whole showing the next objective.
With inside the base I put in a little bit more health and ammunition.
3

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#7

one thing I noticed - maybe it's just me, but in the first version of your map - if vanilla duke was the port, then some of the senines were "missing" that are present in the dukeplus version.
i'll double check this version.

also for the first version: the map is a bit easier in dukeplus.

This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 10:36 PM

0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#8

verfied:
there are seenine that are present when playing the map with dukeplus that are not there when using normal vanilla eduke32.

that's why it was a little easier to conserve some ammo and health with dukeplus vs. vanilla.


I looked at them in mapster & didn't see anything about them as to why some show up in game & some don't when playing vanilla.
Somebody should double-check just to make sure its not happening only on my comp. I don't want to report something that isn't universal to everyone.

using r4176 with dukeplus
EDuke32 r6569 with vanilla

version 2 of the map:
When the player goes down the narrow path and encounters the first octabrain to the lower right, drop down there & walk around the corner - after a bit there should be wall crack & two seenine. In vanilla, there's only one seenine.
In the chamber with the chaingun there should be two seenine - one up top next to a wall & one down in a crevice - in vanilla, neither are there.

I haven't played any farther.

This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 11:17 PM

0

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#9

All right I finally finished it. 3/5 secrets found, tried to avoid save scumming although I did quick save quite a bit once I got out of the caves. Took me a really long time to beat it as well, didn't even realize that the time was flying by.

The ammo situation is a lot more improved. I thought that the progression was good too. Once you get to the military compound area, the game play opens up a lot with more weapons and ammo at your disposal. It still managed to stay pretty challenging and I liked it. The ending key card sequence felt a little sudden to me though. You get the blue and then you pretty much instantly get the yellow and red. I spent way too long looking for the red lock only to remember that it was back at the start of the area. Here are some issues/bugs that I found:

-possible to get crushed just by standing up while picking up the second pair of NVGs
-missing rock wall texture where you get the chaingun (tiny gray sliver where the Octabrains are hiding)
-consider adding water to the area where you get electrocuted for walking on the floor to make it clear to the player that the whole area is dangerous without boots
-going off point above, would be really nice to give the player a second pair of boots - mine expired right before I got the jet pack and I was losing tons of health to toxic sludge
-you still take fall damage when dropping down to get the jet pack - if you don't have over 20 health, you will pretty much die here every time with fall damage + enemy attack

The biggest issue I could see people having is with explosives being necessary for the progression. I know you sealed off the beginning area as per Forge's suggestion but the pipe bomb you need to break the wall is all the way at the very end of the first area. A complete newbie to this map might just waste the pipe bomb while fighting the two Ocatabrains where you pick up the chain gun. I accidentally threw the pipe bomb due to weapon autoswtiching but I remembered not to waste it since I knew that I needed it to advance.

I realized that I got stuck on my first play through because I needed to blow up another wall to access the final switch. I remember only have one pipe bomb in my inventory at this point. Luckily I took a gamble on blowing up that wall instead of wasting the pipe bomb on something else. In the regular episodes, the level designers usually give you explosives close to where you need to break a wall in order to advance. That way, there is a less of a chance that you get stuck because you wasted the explosives on enemies. It didn't hinder me but it's just something to keep in mind for the future.

Anyways, please excuse the wall of text. Overall it was a fun, challenging map and I enjoyed it. Great work and nice fixes.
1

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#10

I understand about the pipebomb thing, it is a valid point, & I can agree somewhat - but when the player enters the map, they're in a room with an obvious wall crack that they probably want to blow up. Having to go a bit and fight some baddies just to find one measly pipebomb should be an 'aha' moment. That should also set the precedence for future wall cracks and explosives in the map. Just my opinion.

This post has been edited by Forge: 10 January 2018 - 11:45 PM

0

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#11

You're right. I guess I just kind of have a bad memory and I tend to zone out and forget these things when I'm in the heat of the moment. In my case, I'd see the crack and think it's an optional secret or I'd acknowledge that it might be the way forward but by the time I get to the pipe bomb, I'm so dead set on killing everything with the tools at my disposal that I wouldn't realize my mistake until it was too late. I never got stuck on the map the second time I played even though there are at least three points where an explosive is mandatory, but I can't really be a fair judge of this sort of thing since I knew what to expect and remained conservative with pipe bomb usage.
0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#12

played a bit farther:
after crossing the dark chasm & entering the ooze cavern with the protective boots - the seenine next to the crack in that cavern & the seenine next to the crack in the loop that comes out behind the waterfall are missing in the vanilla version.
that's two stashes of ammo that the player can't get.
1

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#13

finished it in vanilla - the balance seems pretty good now. It got a little tight a few times & those two stashes of ammo I couldn't get would have helped, but some generous enemy drops made up for it. Not something that can be counted on under normal circumstances - but it evened out. Fixing the seenine issue would make the map play out just fine in vanilla.

A few texture mis- alignments/stretching and shading issues, but nothing too distracting.

In the beginning of the map - after the crack is opened and the player enters the small tunnel on the way to the dark chasm - there's a part where it opens up with small recesses to the left and to the right - the sector that is towards the chasm at that "four-way" intersection should be made a half tick taller or the floor lowered a half-tick. That's where I keep getting randomly squished.

This post has been edited by Forge: 11 January 2018 - 11:23 AM

1

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#14

I tried with DukePlus and I can confirm a lot of those exploding tanks are missing in vanilla. I was actually amazed to see how many there were with DukePlus loaded. It's a totally different map when that's factored in. However, I think that it works well in vanilla now with the additional changes.
0

User is offline   One Man Army 

  • 11

#15

View PostForge, on 10 January 2018 - 10:55 PM, said:

verfied:
there are seenine that are present when playing the map with dukeplus that are not there when using normal vanilla eduke32.

that's why it was a little easier to conserve some ammo and health with dukeplus vs. vanilla.


I looked at them in mapster & didn't see anything about them as to why some show up in game & some don't when playing vanilla.
Somebody should double-check just to make sure its not happening only on my comp. I don't want to report something that isn't universal to everyone.

using r4176 with dukeplus
EDuke32 r6569 with vanilla

version 2 of the map:
When the player goes down the narrow path and encounters the first octabrain to the lower right, drop down there & walk around the corner - after a bit there should be wall crack & two seenine. In vanilla, there's only one seenine.
In the chamber with the chaingun there should be two seenine - one up top next to a wall & one down in a crevice - in vanilla, neither are there.

I haven't played any farther.


I've made fixes to the map, get the third version here:
https://ufile.io/qy48o

Fixes:
The seenine is an odd problem that they would show up in duke plus but not in vanilla, I've replaced those seenine with the exploding barrels, and now you can gain access to those secret areas in vanilla.
A second pair of protective boots have been added.
The slime pit with the monster has been raised up a little bit, reducing Duke's fall damage.
Second pair of NVGs ceiling has been raised up a bit, overall tight passages with low ceilings have been raised up a bit.
1

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#16

played it with vanilla & verified that there are explosive barrels in place of the missing seenine.

I would say the balance is pretty good, but now I'm getting to the point where I know the location of all the enemies and supplies. My impartiality is becoming impaired towards balance due to familiarity.

the only thing I really came across was blowing up the crack in the dark chasm - it left an extra - undestroyed crack sprite

you should make a sweep and clean up the over-stretched and misaligned textures & make sure everything is shaded properly (like in the vent shaft that's accessed with a pipebomb in the ooze room with the jetpack - above the NVG's is at full-bright 0 & is low enough to be seen)

also make a text template for your map - so people know who made it.

This post has been edited by Forge: 11 January 2018 - 09:48 PM

0

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#17

I didn't notice anything unusual when blowing up the crack in the dark chasm. I just hadn't noticed a barrel there previously - I'm guessing that the barrel didn't appear in vanilla in your previous versions. I also wasn't sure how to get back out once I got the freezethrower.

By the way, here's the missing texture that I was talking about. It's a very tiny sliver at the end of the first two area where you fight two Octabrains and get the the chainguner, pipe bomb, and NVGs. Right above the cross hair in this screenshot.

Posted Image
0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#18

View PostPoorchop, on 12 January 2018 - 05:07 AM, said:

I didn't notice anything unusual when blowing up the crack in the dark chasm. I just hadn't noticed a barrel there previously - I'm guessing that the barrel didn't appear in vanilla in your previous versions. I also wasn't sure how to get back out

The barrel wasn't there in previous versions.
It's a trap. You can't get back unless you already have the jetpak. If a player sees it early, shoots the barrel, & jumps down there - they're stuck.
I'd recommend getting rid of that barrel. If the player wants that stash, they can come back with an rpg, or after they get the box of pipebombs.
Either that, or put in some way for the player to jump-climb their way out.

Attached Image: duke0000.jpg

This post has been edited by Forge: 12 January 2018 - 05:44 AM

0

User is offline   Merlijn 

  • 445

#19

View PostForge, on 10 January 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

I understand about the pipebomb thing, it is a valid point, & I can agree somewhat - but when the player enters the map, they're in a room with an obvious wall crack that they probably want to blow up. Having to go a bit and fight some baddies just to find one measly pipebomb should be an 'aha' moment. That should also set the precedence for future wall cracks and explosives in the map. Just my opinion.


I played the second version of the map and I agree with this. From the start it's clear that blowing up cracks are going to be an important gameplay element, so I don't think the limited amount of pipe bombs is unfair. Seems the issues I had have been fixed already with the third version.

Overall it's a solid, enjoyable map, I liked how the underground base was structured (having to gradually unlock entire sections and having to explore).
Design wise both the caves and the base look well designed. The control rooms inside the base had a few odd texture choises though.
Seeing walls of blue marble in a hi-tech environment was a bit strange. But that's the only negative I can think of.
0

User is offline   Mike Norvak 

  • Music Producer
  • 626

#20

Could someone post some shots?
0

User is offline   One Man Army 

  • 11

#21

I was unhappy with my first map I tried fixing it, but it was best just to rebuild it from the ground up,
the first part of the map is still a little rough around the edges, but it's basically ready to play. When you open the EXIT door and killed the monster inside that is the end of the level for now. The other half of the map the base section I will finish later.

I played the game in vanilla Duke seems to be working just fine. I need game testers, feedback would be appreciated.

Here's my updated map:
https://ufile.io/ypp0o
0

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#22

Wow, this is one hell of an improvement. It's like the level was totally re-imagined by another person.

-First off, I really liked the platforming at the beginning. Even though you opened the space up a lot more, I still felt like it was pretty challenging. There were a lot of enemies to keep me on my toes.
-Some of the ambushes were nice, like when you're going through the toxic waste tunnels.
-Health and armor placement felt pretty on point to me.
-You weren't stingy with equipment but you didn't throw too much as the player either - nice balance there with the jetpack, NVGs, and boots.
-The platforming in the second area with the death pit was really butt-clenching and I liked that too.
-Incorporating some outdoor areas really tied the map together in a good way. I like how the map starts out in the outdoor beginning area and the second outdoor area was very nicely done. I really liked the way that it looked.
-I like how you kind of forced the player to notice important areas now - there's a "window" revealing the crack in the wall in the second outdoor area so that it's more obvious where you need to go now once you get the pipe bomb.

This was pretty impressive overall. You managed to retain some of the original designs but you made them work in a much better fashion. If I had any critiques, it would be that the pistol ammo felt just a little tight at the beginning especially if you don't try to explore behind waterfalls, but it was still manageable. I'm also assuming that you'll tag secrets when you're done with the rest of the map because there were definitely some areas that could've counted as secrets.

There was also one oddity: looked like an invisible wall here. Those are the bullet marks that you see.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Poorchop: 30 January 2018 - 09:56 AM

0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#23

have a couple other things on my plate, but this is on my todo list.

leaving bullet tags because it may be 'hittable' ?
0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#24

couple things

block the cliff-faces at the beginning - the player can get up high with some jumping and end up getting squished, or get a view that just looks ugly.

Attached Image: duke0000.jpg

Attached Image: duke0001.jpg


just my opinion, but all those ooze rivers & lakes should be tagged as water
the dark canyon section can be mostly skipped by jumping straight across instead of having to travel down one side & coming back up the other - this skips all that fun rock jumping in the dark w/NVGs

and I got stuck.
hit all the switches & unlocked the doors - went to the door marked exit - killed the octabrain - & now I don't know where to go.

This post has been edited by Forge: 31 January 2018 - 05:28 PM

0

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 29

#25

View PostForge, on 31 January 2018 - 05:27 PM, said:

and I got stuck.
hit all the switches & unlocked the doors - went to the door marked exit - killed the octabrain - & now I don't know where to go.


He said it's not finished yet. That's the end of the level:

View PostOne Man Army, on 29 January 2018 - 10:31 PM, said:

When you open the EXIT door and killed the monster inside that is the end of the level for now. The other half of the map the base section I will finish later.

1

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#26

View PostPoorchop, on 31 January 2018 - 07:38 PM, said:

He said it's not finished yet. That's the end of the level:

derp! :wacko:

I'm slightly distracted

This post has been edited by Forge: 31 January 2018 - 10:06 PM

0

User is offline   One Man Army 

  • 11

#27

Second version now available, thanks guys for the feedback, most of the problems have been fixed. And now there's a new area to explore.

Here's my updated map:
https://ufile.io/d66mf
0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#28

removing a cactus didn't stop me from getting up into the cliffs at the beginning

you added a chaingun and a bunch of enemy, but you didn't compensate for the possibility that more enemies means the player is going to take more damage - and possible fall damage since the ooze is still hard floor instead of tagged as water.

haven't gotten much past the (2nd) pipebomb crack. died during the first encounter in the dark chasm area after being shot once by a liztroop.
0

User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,811

#29

replayed the first section a couple times until i avoided taking too much damage to get through the dark chasm encounters.

can still jump straight across the chasm - doing the jump puzzle all the way around that section doesn't really reward the player except for a couple boxes of ammo for a weapon they don't even have yet.

the cracks in the rpg room are pretty small and unnoticeable. i almost shut the game off because I thought i had reached a point where you had stopped working on it.
0

User is offline   One Man Army 

  • 11

#30

Some of the old problems have been fixed, secret areas have been tagged, and there are difficulty settings.
New version now available: https://ufile.io/br0ef
0

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks are property of their respective owners. Instead of reading this text, you could be playing Ion Maiden! ;) © 2018 Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options