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Newcomer Perspective

User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#31

You guys let one game of Duke Nukem dictate how a Duke Nukem game "should be." Duke games doesn't have an identity, it just goes by what is popular during that time. DN1 and DN2 were platformers like Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden at that time. DN3D was going off of Doom and Quake. Time to Kill, Land of Babes, and Zero Hour were taken from the Tomb Raider. Forever is based on modern shooters like Half-life 2 and Halo. "Button prompts suck. They don't work in Duke." Yeah, okay.

Gearbox has caught on. Instead of making a Duke game based on another "hit" game, why not just put him in said hit game as paid dlc instead? Nice!
-1

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 209

#32

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 16 January 2018 - 05:30 AM, said:

The beer and glory hole things make just as much sense as the steroids in Duke3D.

Sure but Duke using roids is a good joke: it gives you the impression that the guy takes steroids on a daily basis and somehow he doesn't get its negative effects, only the positive side. That's unrealistic but that's not the point, the point is that it makes sense in the context of the game world and the Duke Nukem character. You know, just what I wrote in my last post:

"I don't think that it's nitpicking, gameplay mechanics have to make sense in the context of the game world and the characters to some extent." - I don't want realism, I want stuff that fits the context.

In the case of the beer you have something as the basis of a good joke: drinking alcohol makes you feel tougher so it's only natural that Duke really gets tougher from it... but he also becomes drunk from one beer which is like if taking steroids in Duke 3D would have caused him to become impotent next to his increased speed. Hell, at least they could have made the joke work by Duke saying something funny like "Duke Beer: 50 percent alcohol, the European way" as a way to poke fun at how weak American beer is + introducing the idea that Duke has his own beer brand that makes you shitfaced. But really giving you an armor bonus while blurring your vision is just not a good game mechanic in a Duke game.

Quote

Or the berserk powerup in Doom.

Why? Doom guy likes to rip and tear and the game is abstract and arcady as hell.
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User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,957

#33

View PostZaxx, on 16 January 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

"Duke Beer: 50 percent alcohol, the European way" as a way to poke fun at how weak American beer is

wat?

common misconception.
- the difference is between the way the alcohol is measured for that region - by volume or by weight.

Convert alcohol by weight into alcohol by volume by multiplying by 1.25

Convert alcohol by volume into alcohol by weight by multiplying by 0.80

the average* standard lager, pilsner, & pils, no matter where it's brewed, has 4 to 6 percent alcohol by volume.
* there are extreme and infrequent exceptions with over 10%. (from both europe & u.s.)

This post has been edited by Forge: 16 January 2018 - 10:48 PM

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User is online   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor
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#34

Did the beer really have to get Duke drunk drunk though? I mean one of the downers of using both the beer and steroids is that they messed up the screen. Power ups are typically meant to be actual power ups, without any major detriments. This way they're both more fun to use and more rewarding to find.

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User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 209

#35

View PostForge, on 16 January 2018 - 10:47 PM, said:

wat?

common misconception.

Can be but truth be told I never liked beer from the US (only drank the mainstream stuff), I dunno how to describe it, I'm not a beer buff but the taste is just different. Drinking the American Budweiser next to the Czech version is literally like drinking two different beers. Anyway I guess the joke could still work since there is a preconception in the US that views Europeans as the more "hedonistic" type.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 16 January 2018 - 11:09 PM

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User is offline   necroslut 

  • 193

#36

IIRC Wieder mentioned that originally it took 6 beers to get Duke drunk, I assume it worked something similar like in Redneck Rampage where one beer would get you only a partial boost. They would have to be quicker to drink then, though. It would have worked better with the whiskey they had in the multiplayer.

As for the glory hole, it also would have been way better if it was more hidden, and again not shown in the fucking advertising. Way to take a "wait- what the fuck- did they just....?" moment hidden in a corner, likely to be missed the first time through, and make it the centerpiece.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
1

User is offline   Zaxx 

  • 209

#37

View Postnecroslut, on 17 January 2018 - 01:20 AM, said:

IIRC Wieder mentioned that originally it took 6 beers to get Duke drunk, I assume it worked something similar like in Redneck Rampage where one beer would get you only a partial boost. They would have to be quicker to drink then, though. It would have worked better with the whiskey they had in the multiplayer.

As for the glory hole, it also would have been way better if it was more hidden, and again not shown in the fucking advertising. Way to take a "wait- what the fuck- did they just....?" moment hidden in a corner, likely to be missed the first time through, and make it the centerpiece.

What else can you do if your game is not too good and doesn't have any unique game mechanics or truly memorable moments apart from the "wow, so edgy" stuff? :D

Edit: Though now that I'm thinking about it I kind of admire the game's marketing campaign because of this trailer:

Easily "trailer of the year" material especially if you consider the game's quality. This was amazing when it came out, it blew me the fuck away.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 17 January 2018 - 02:06 AM

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User is offline   Noddy 

  • 4

#38

I don't know why, but I personally enjoyed the game, played it and finished it like three times. That being said, the biggest problem I have with the game is the puzzles.
They just take away too much time, for a Duke game. I mean that whole thing with the forklift near the game, just felt like a chore, same thing with pipes (valve) puzzle. Come on this is a Duke game, shouldn't he like shoot his way through puzzles, or at least include shooting in problem solving.

All this being said, other parts of the game are OK, like the driving of both the monster truck and the toy car. They should have replace bear, with whiskey and redo the whole night vision thing that was also annoying as hell.
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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,838

#39

I like puzzles. It's no different to me than hunting for keycards or that one blowup wall that I missed somewhere after all the enemies in the level are already dead. In fact, it's better than that.

I just think the complaints over the beer powerup thing are blown way out of proportion. Wieder's original description of the ability sounds neat and like it would work better, but I really don't mind it as it is. I don't even use the beer item anyway, though. But I don't care so much about detriments to powerups. I guess I just think in a more game mechanic kind of way than realism. To me it's realistic enough. Beer does do this. No, not that quickly, but in the context of an action game like Duke it is perfect to me. It doesn't bother me in the least. I really don't get the complaints. You guys have been playing too much COD.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 17 January 2018 - 08:43 AM

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User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 31

#40

View PostRedxplatinum, on 16 January 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

You guys let one game of Duke Nukem dictate how a Duke Nukem game "should be." Duke games doesn't have an identity, it just goes by what is popular during that time. DN1 and DN2 were platformers like Mega Man and Ninja Gaiden at that time. DN3D was going off of Doom and Quake. Time to Kill, Land of Babes, and Zero Hour were taken from the Tomb Raider. Forever is based on modern shooters like Half-life 2 and Halo. "Button prompts suck. They don't work in Duke." Yeah, okay.

Gearbox has caught on. Instead of making a Duke game based on another "hit" game, why not just put him in said hit game as paid dlc instead? Nice!


I don't think that Duke was ever trying to rip off any other game. Games inspire other games all of the time but typically, that game that was the result of inspiration tries to be more ambitious and push the boundaries of the mechanics by which it was inspired. I'd argue that the first three games were a result of technological limitations. There were a million platformers from the era that birthed Duke 1 and 2 so it's not surprising that those games were in the same vein. To me however, Duke 2 still stood apart from other games. The music, the artwork, and the character himself made the game stand out from other action platformers.

Duke Forever was simply uninspired in contrast. Mind you I praised the game in the first post but there's a difference between modeling mechanics from other games and straight up copy-pasting them. The two weapon limit from Halo and Call of Duty was one of the worst things that they could have done and my biggest complaint. It was so bad that they eventually had to patch in the option for four weapons. Factor in the fact that you need an explosive weapon to damage bosses and you're pretty much stuck with one weapon most of the time since you never know when you might run into a boss.

As for Duke 3D, it seems similar to Doom on the surface but it plays so much differently. They are both 2.5D shooters with badass protagonists and some similar weapons, but the similarities end there. This ties into my point of being inspired by a game without being a carbon copy. Sure Duke 3D was going off of Doom and competing with Quake, but it was pushing the boundaries of what Doom introduced. Duke Forever was fun but it didn't break any new ground and it regressed in so many other areas compared to Duke 3D.

This post has been edited by Poorchop: 17 January 2018 - 01:54 PM

1

User is online   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,838

#41

n/m

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
It's Green (Duke3D BETA Track!) in FLAC, OGG, & MP3 with metadata loop tags
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley

This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 17 January 2018 - 09:21 PM

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User is offline   necroslut 

  • 193

#42

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 17 January 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

I like puzzles. It's no different to me than hunting for keycards or that one blowup wall that I missed somewhere after all the enemies in the level are already dead. In fact, it's better than that.

I just think the complaints over the beer powerup thing are blown way out of proportion. Wieder's original description of the ability sounds neat and like it would work better, but I really don't mind it as it is. I don't even use the beer item anyway, though. But I don't care so much about detriments to powerups. I guess I just think in a more game mechanic kind of way than realism. To me it's realistic enough. Beer does do this. No, not that quickly, but in the context of an action game like Duke it is perfect to me. It doesn't bother me in the least. I really don't get the complaints. You guys have been playing too much COD.

I don't mind the single beer-thing too much, my main issue with the beer mechanic is with regards to gameplay: even with just one can it takes just too damn long to use, and the excessive blur on the screen makes it almost useless as you can't get a whole lot done while it lasts, bosses notwithstanding.

View PostPoorchop, on 17 January 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

I don't think that Duke was ever trying to rip off any other game. Games inspire other games all of the time but typically, that game that was the result of inspiration tries to be more ambitious and push the boundaries of the mechanics by which it was inspired. I'd argue that the first three games were a result of technological limitations. There were a million platformers from the era that birthed Duke 1 and 2 so it's not surprising that those games were in the same vein. To me however, Duke 2 still stood apart from other games. The music, the artwork, and the character himself made the game stand out from other action platformers.

Duke Forever was simply uninspired in contrast. Mind you I praised the game in the first post but there's a difference between modeling mechanics from other games and straight up copy-pasting them. The two weapon limit from Halo and Call of Duty was one of the worst things that they could have done and my biggest complaint. It was so bad that they eventually had to patch in the option for four weapons. Factor in the fact that you need an explosive weapon to damage bosses and you're pretty much stuck with one weapon most of the time since you never know when you might run into a boss. [...]

Even worse, those console-shooter mechanics are pretty much just slapped on top without being properly implemented, constantly clashing with the game's originally intended mechanics and balancing. The weapons were never planned to be as generic (gameplay- and situation-wise) as they are in Halo or CoD.

Quote

As for Duke 3D, it seems similar to Doom on the surface but it plays so much differently. They are both 2.5D shooters with badass protagonists and some similar weapons, but the similarities end there. This ties into my point of being inspired by a game without being a carbon copy. Sure Duke 3D was going off of Doom and competing with Quake, but it was pushing the boundaries of what Doom introduced. Duke Forever was fun but it didn't break any new ground and it regressed in so many other areas compared to Duke 3D.

Comparing Duke 3D to Quake should make it damn obvious they weren't just aping after id. Duke has more in common with Half-Life (not talking about tone here) than with Quake.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels
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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 92

#43

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 17 January 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

I like puzzles. It's no different to me than hunting for keycards or that one blowup wall that I missed somewhere after all the enemies in the level are already dead. In fact, it's better than that.

Same here. Puzzles are very much why classic fps is always superrior to modern fps. They simply had more variety. You take Call of Duty and it's literally just a mindless shooting gallery in a complete simon says behaviour/environment. This meaning no exploring or any kinda out of the box thinking, since you do what the game says or youre not proggressing/game over. Those puzzles in classic fps mixed things up. It wasn't just mindless slaughtering or running in a funneled path but you got times where you had to stop and think (Shadow Warrior that shiny floor color puzzle door thing anyone? ;) )

Imo the puzzle aspect in DNF was way too light but that is most likely because the funding side obviously wanted to be certain that the game would "appeal", meaning to slap on the CoD4 gameplay mechanics which was popular at the time. So no puzzles it is. Except in DNF's case they atleast tried a bit but it really shows how there is nothing where you would actually get stuck or any real challenge. Some example of actual puzzles? I recommend playing a game called Antichamber from 2013 and it pretty much has the hardest puzzles in really long time. So the few "valve puzzles" that DNF had were just plain pathetic compared to that or even the Shadow Warrior shiny floor color code door thing.

View Postnecroslut, on 18 January 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

I don't mind the single beer-thing too much, my main issue with the beer mechanic is with regards to gameplay: even with just one can it takes just too damn long to use, and the excessive blur on the screen makes it almost useless as you can't get a whole lot done while it lasts, bosses notwithstanding.

I never digged the whole beer power up really and thus on my intial playthrough I pretty much played it entirely without it. To me it just felt such stupid and gimmicky. However afterwards I have adjusted a bit to it, actually sometimes even use it.

View Postnecroslut, on 18 January 2018 - 01:02 AM, said:

Even worse, those console-shooter mechanics are pretty much just slapped on top without being properly implemented, constantly clashing with the game's originally intended mechanics and balancing. The weapons were never planned to be as generic (gameplay- and situation-wise) as they are in Halo or CoD.

Definitely. You got guns that are more than just hitscan, take the freezeray, shrinkray or rpg forexample being entirely projectile and beam based. Really still grinds my gears how George dared to say in some Q&A that "it's not the 90's anymore" as reason for the 2weaponlimit to get implemented in DNF. Like you said. Maybe if they had atleast done something for the game design in how the 2weapon system was implemented with reason, then maybe it would have been ok. But as it was implemented it was just shit and everyone prefered the kinda strategy where they carry 1 favorite/powerful gun and one more allaround suitable. Making George's whole 2weaponlimit brought "strategy" useless, aside from the forced explosive weapon swapping during bossfights.

This post has been edited by spessu_sb: 18 January 2018 - 02:59 AM

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User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#44

View PostPoorchop, on 17 January 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

I don't think that Duke was ever trying to rip off any other game. Games inspire other games all of the time but typically, that game that was the result of inspiration tries to be more ambitious and push the boundaries of the mechanics by which it was inspired. I'd argue that the first three games were a result of technological limitations. There were a million platformers from the era that birthed Duke 1 and 2 so it's not surprising that those games were in the same vein. To me however, Duke 2 still stood apart from other games. The music, the artwork, and the character himself made the game stand out from other action platformers.

Duke Forever was simply uninspired in contrast. Mind you I praised the game in the first post but there's a difference between modeling mechanics from other games and straight up copy-pasting them. The two weapon limit from Halo and Call of Duty was one of the worst things that they could have done and my biggest complaint. It was so bad that they eventually had to patch in the option for four weapons. Factor in the fact that you need an explosive weapon to damage bosses and you're pretty much stuck with one weapon most of the time since you never know when you might run into a boss.

As for Duke 3D, it seems similar to Doom on the surface but it plays so much differently. They are both 2.5D shooters with badass protagonists and some similar weapons, but the similarities end there. This ties into my point of being inspired by a game without being a carbon copy. Sure Duke 3D was going off of Doom and competing with Quake, but it was pushing the boundaries of what Doom introduced. Duke Forever was fun but it didn't break any new ground and it regressed in so many other areas compared to Duke 3D.


When did I ever say Duke was a rip off of other games? All I said is that Duke follows trend of what's popular during the time. DN1 and DN2 rose when platformers were welcomed. DN3D came out around Doom and Quake. Forever is a mixed bowl of so many trends from the 12 years development and it kind of over boiled and flowed over. The post was to point out that there's no real identity in a Duke game, that you guys should stop considering DN3D to be the basis of how all Duke games should be. Yes, I understand that it's the game that brought the Duke community but 3drealms was a business and it wanted to be trending worldwide. Forever was probably not a good game, but it was a good Duke game.
-2

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 31

#45

View PostRedxplatinum, on 19 January 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

When did I ever say Duke was a rip off of other games? All I said is that Duke follows trend of what's popular during the time. DN1 and DN2 rose when platformers were welcomed. DN3D came out around Doom and Quake. Forever is a mixed bowl of so many trends from the 12 years development and it kind of over boiled and flowed over. The post was to point out that there's no real identity in a Duke game, that you guys should stop considering DN3D to be the basis of how all Duke games should be. Yes, I understand that it's the game that brought the Duke community but 3drealms was a business and it wanted to be trending worldwide. Forever was probably not a good game, but it was a good Duke game.


There's a difference between following popular trends and cloning bad features from other games. Duke Forever came out at a time when the first person shooter was making somewhat of a resurgence thanks to the popularity of Call of Duty 4 and the ongoing success of Halo. Releasing an FPS at the time made sense since that was the general trend, but does that mean that the two weapon limit had to be cloned in?

You're kind of conflating two different things here - genres and very specific details in games. I can agree that the game ended up being a mixed bowl of some features over 12 years of development, but many of those features didn't belong in the game. They could have been a source of inspiration but they shouldn't have dictated exactly what made it into the game.

Comparisons to Duke 3D are inevitable because it was the last major title in the franchise for many people, and it was also a game that checked all the boxes and then some. It improved upon what Doom started. From Duke's persona to the level design and unique weapons, it differentiated itself from the game(s) from which it took inspiration. Meanwhile, Forever just said "Halo has two weapons, lots of people like Halo, we should have two weapons, lots of people will like us." That's not innovation. I think that your last line is also backwards because I personally thought that Forever was a pretty good game, but it wasn't a good Duke game because it regressed in many areas compared to the last major title in the series.
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User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#46

Doom lets you carry a lot of weapons, DN3D does too. Doom had secrets, so did DN3D. I felt that Duke's character was special in DN3D because it probably the first FPS protagonist to comment on his surroundings and reference media. Others characters would just grunt or were entirely mute. Interactivity was also another thing that made DN3D stand out; the ability to flush the toilet, drink from the fountain, view security cams etc. The unique world and environment it established; adult themed shops, alien designs like Troopers, Octobrain, the Battlelord. Weapons were unique as well; Shrinker, Freeze Ray and Devastator. Platforming. These are the things I found to be unique in Duke Nukem.

Fast forward to Duke Nukem Forever. Duke's character is still the guy that comments on his surrounding and reference pop culture, while other characters are still mute or have generic soldier personalities. Interactivity was also present in Forever; small things like spinning a chair, playing arcade games, ogle women, and they were encouraged as they boost ego. Getting shrunk in Duke Burger and Ghost Town stood out to me as well. Most of the enemies and weapons in DN3D make a return in Forever and more deadly than ever. Pig cops can go berserk, Octobrains deflect explosives, the grenade launcher from Battlelord are the worst. Weapons like devastator, shrinker and freeze ray are back. Platforming.

Everything I found to be unique in DN3D compared to other games were there in Forever; Duke's character, interactivity, the "world" and weapons. That's why I felt it was a good Duke game. Personally I found it to be a pretty good game as well. I don't have 900+ hours on steam if I didn't.
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User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 31

#47

I would agree that a lot of those things are good too. I think I mentioned in my first post that this game was kind of foreshadowing the good things there were to come with Doom 4. Most of the original enemies made a return and they were modernized to keep them interesting without drastically changing their old behavior. The platforming was fun to me, especially during the parts where Duke was shrunk down. The pacing was good and they made certain fights seem like boss battles even when they weren't which I really enjoyed.

These are all things that make it a good game, but it was still a poor Duke game because combat was kind of shallow. Yes, the pig cops had a nice berserk mechanic and Octobrains could actually deflect missiles back at Duke, but the two weapon limit hindered my enjoyment. Duke 3D let you do things your way. If you wanted to freeze and enemy and finish them off with the mighty foot, that was an option. In Forever, you rarely get the freeze gun and when you do, there's no reason to use it because your first slot will likely be something more useful such as the shotgun or ripper, while your second slot will probably be something that shoots explosives just in case you run into a boss. And while the freeze gun slowly recharges, you're given almost no ammo for the other guns should you choose to carry around something else such the shrink ray.

There wasn't much in the way of good level design as with Duke 3D. The environments were often pretty bland prior to The Doctor Who Cloned Me. It also failed to be a good Duke game in how out of character Duke was. As it was already mentioned several times before, grabbing turds out of the toilet was beyond stupid. The interactivity was fresh and new back in 96. They didn't go anywhere with it this time. Handing you a dry erase marker so that you could draw dicks didn't serve much purpose apart from breaking up the action. Even if I played this back when it was released, I would not have been impressed about needing to sign a kid's copy of my book so that I could progress with the campaign.

The bottom line is that it was a pretty good game but many of the complaints about it are totally valid. I've been hooked on Duke 3D and I've found it hard to put it down over the past few months but I can't really say the same about Forever. I'll still continue to play it once in a while but Duke 3D is still more enjoyable and frankly, it's the better game to me.
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User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#48

I like the two weapon limit, actually. It goes well with how the game is. I'm not the one that keeps an explosive weapon around at all times. Whenever I'm presented in a situation which I need one, the game will leave me one lying around nearby. And I always keep the golden pistol with me as well, you only get that one from the beginning in the whole game; aside from the final battle. Plus it's versatile for long range and short, powerful enough that you won't waste all your ammo. Thus I just have one open slot for whatever I want/need. It's an adrenaline when you use up all your ammo and have to find the closest ripper or shotgun to finish the enemies off; which is why I'm fond of the ambush on the roof of Duke Burger and The Clarifier by the crane. Plus the rpg only has 5 rounds, so what's the point keeping it for so long.

Yeah, Duke's humour has became juvenile but come on, he shat down the overlord's neck; willingly too. I thought it was stupidly funny back then, the same way I thought about picking up a turd. At least in Forever, he complained and asked wtf was happening when you picked it up. Also if you manage to get a poop smudge in the sink and turn the water on, magic happens. I thought the environments in The Doctor Who Cloned Me was bland. Most of the time you're stuck in the underground facility. Most areas looks the same as others, the same underground facility. The core game had the casino, the barrens, duke burger, the hive, the highway... I definitely enjoyed the main game's environment more. That said, I think Duke's character was less juvenile in the DLC. I guess they realized he was a bit of a douche in the main game.
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User is offline   SilenceSam'sSilence 

  • 2,672

#49

View Postspessu_sb, on 15 January 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

I would actually like to see the 2001 or/and 2007/9 versions, just to see how much (if) DNF 2011 really did wrong. I know that 2001 game did most deflinitely not have any wallboobs, "gloryholes", or whatever brown throwing simulators. Just by you looking at those screens and that iconic trailer, will instantly notice how that was a way more self taking serious game/vision than 2011.

To be fair, the 2001 version had a Dance Dance Revolution minigame with a stripper in the game room of the Slick Willy.

There was poo in the 2001-2003 period, but it was presented very differently. I can't say it was "serious" but it was context appropriate and not overplayed (think shrunken sequence under a remote desert facility). As for what was released... necro was spot on in explaining. It's the presentation that sucks the most. It was supposed to be an obscure secret that makes people go "Oh god I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still surprised they actually did that".

I've mentioned it before but the same stands for microwaving the rat.

View Postspessu_sb, on 18 January 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

I never digged the whole beer power up really and thus on my intial playthrough I pretty much played it entirely without it. To me it just felt such stupid and gimmicky. However afterwards I have adjusted a bit to it, actually sometimes even use it.

1-2 beers were supposed to be plenty useful for damage mitigation in normal combat without negatively affecting your vision/controls in any meaningful way. A full 6 pack was supposed to be for very specific encounters where you basically were presented with a combat puzzle that while possibly doable with normal combat... there was the "correct" way.

Light up a stogie, chug a six pack of 40's, and pop some roids. The cigar regenerated health (ego) cause ya look cool. A full 6 pack mitigated *most* damage cause you're feeling no pain. The roids made your fists/boot instant death.

So say the player gets presented with a room of a seemingly impossible wall of pigcops and octobrains in an open arena. But behold there's a fridge right before you enter well stocked. The best way to deal with it is reduce the ego hits to a minimum (beer), automatically regen ego whenever you do lose some (cigar), and punch the every living daylights (roids) out of any blurry object that crosses your view. It was an absolute bloody mess once you could see clearly again.

You'd definitely need to hydrate from a non-poo toilet afterwards though.

This post has been edited by SpotsSpot'sSpots: 21 January 2018 - 08:58 PM

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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 92

#50

View PostSpotsSpot, on 21 January 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

To be fair, the 2001 version had a Dance Dance Revolution minigame with a stripper in the game room of the Slick Willy.

There was poo in the 2001-2003 period, but it was presented very differently. I can't say it was "serious" but it was context appropriate and not overplayed (think shrunken sequence under a remote desert facility). As for what was released... necro was spot on in explaining. It's the presentation that sucks the most. It was supposed to be an obscure secret that makes people go "Oh god I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still surprised they actually did that".

I've mentioned it before but the same stands for microwaving the rat.

That sounds like it would've been something that I neither would have had a problem with. These modern games just always work like this that "everybody gotta win" so there is nothing truly hidden to discover in these games because theyre made so that everybody gets to experience (find) everything. It's so sad to hear that DNF too really did change then quite much. Considering how the final released version was entirely different from this.If these eastereggs had atleast been somehow secrets and actually hidden in there, I think it would have made the game a bit better in it's current state.

View PostSpotsSpot, on 21 January 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

1-2 beers were supposed to be plenty useful for damage mitigation in normal combat without negatively affecting your vision/controls in any meaningful way. A full 6 pack was supposed to be for very specific encounters where you basically were presented with a combat puzzle that while possibly doable with normal combat... there was the "correct" way.

Light up a stogie, chug a six pack of 40's, and pop some roids. The cigar regenerated health (ego) cause ya look cool. A full 6 pack mitigated *most* damage cause you're feeling no pain. The roids made your fists/boot instant death.

This just makes so sad, so sad. All what you just described sounds like more innovative, fun and actually USEFUL game design. The kinda I was pretty much expecting from DNF. Especially the cigar one is a really fun one to me and in concept of that I would've been ok with the regen health. But all of it got thrown out of the door for a cheaper MMS style design :(

View PostSpotsSpot, on 21 January 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

So say the player gets presented with a room of a seemingly impossible wall of pigcops and octobrains in an open arena. But behold there's a fridge right before you enter well stocked. The best way to deal with it is reduce the ego hits to a minimum (beer), automatically regen ego whenever you do lose some (cigar), and punch the every living daylights (roids) out of any blurry object that crosses your view. It was an absolute bloody mess once you could see clearly again.

You'd definitely need to hydrate from a non-poo toilet afterwards though.

Here's hoping somehow one day one way or another, the early betas do get released into the internet. That just sounds like something that the world has gotta see. It's simply just too big of a thing to keep as secret, sounds truly fun game design to me.

Thanks alot for clarifying these design choices for us.
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View Postspessu_sb, on 26 January 2018 - 01:57 PM, said:

Here's hoping somehow one day one way or another, the early betas do get released into the internet. That just sounds like something that the world has gotta see. It's simply just too big of a thing to keep as secret, sounds truly fun game design to me.

To be 100% honest I'm not sure any of the archived builds would clearly demonstrate this concept though some of them may have all the ingredients. Those who have access to legacy builds certainly know about my test map(s) that expanded through the years, but this combination in particular barely lived as anything but an idea and one room in a Rob Faison test map. The inventory items were setup and live, but the "production" game space itself never had the chance to try it out because design direction had already shifted and well... "massive staffing adjustments" *cough* followed shortly thereafter.

This post has been edited by SpotsSpot'sSpots: 27 January 2018 - 10:33 PM

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