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Newcomer Perspective

User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 28

#1

I played a ton of Duke II and I was still playing it by the time Duke Nukem 3D came out. In fact, I had no idea that Duke 3D existed until a few months ago. Having finished that game recently, I can say that it was an absolute masterpiece. Naturally I had to pick up Duke Nukem Forever in spite of all the terrible things that I have heard about it.

Well I just finished Forever and in short, I think that it was a ton of fun. However, it is plagued with numerous shortcomings. I had to watch a video review in order to remember the reasons why everyone hated this game so much and it also occurred to me that the game has probably been heavily patched since it came out. As it stands today with the version that I played, it was very enjoyable and it felt like a foreshadowing of the greatness that was to come with the new Wolfenstein and Doom 4.

One of the biggest issues that I had was a complaint that I remember from when the game was first released, that being the two weapon limit. This has been patched to allow up to four weapons now but I stuck with the two weapon limit to experience the game as it was initially intended. I also strongly disliked the regenerating health. It's such a terrible mechanic that really doesn't belong in an FPS, especially one that has been around for this long. There were loading screens every 3 feet although they weren't too long, and I put my PC together before the game was released. Nevertheless, I was getting incredibly sick of them towards the end of the game. Above all else, I hated how pornographic this game was. It was a shock to me seeing the adult content in 3D as Duke II was such an innocent game but even 3D wasn't this tasteless. Between wall boobs, statues with 5 inch long nipples, nudie mags, incestuous twins, and so forth, I thought that it was really juvenile and it added nothing of value to the game.

There were many other problems but there were also a ton of great features. The pacing and action were extremely well done. It starts off with a recreation of a great fight from Duke 3D. That's a hell of a great way to kick off a game if you ask me. Most of the boss fights were pretty good and they were perfectly spaced out with just the right amount of content in between the fights. They also managed to make some of the regular encounters feel like boss fights, such as
Spoiler
I personally liked the driving sequences and I felt that they were sometimes reminiscent of Half-Life 2. The platforming was enjoyable even though the physics felt off and were occasionally a hindrance. I especially liked the platforming
Spoiler
The overall presentation was simplistic at times but it looked great at other times, especially the very end of the game. The
Spoiler


I could add a lot more but I don't want to write a novel and bore everyone to death. The bottom line is that Duke Forever is pretty damn solid, at least the modern version that I played. It still has many problems but it doesn't deserve anywhere near the amount of criticism that it gets. Removing the console was a huge middle finger to the players but I guess that's Gearbox for you. Duke 3D is still the king but I will definitely be revisiting Forever pretty regularly going forward.

This post has been edited by Poorchop: 02 January 2018 - 05:17 AM

5

User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#2

Yeah, even Randy Pitchford said that Duke Nukem Forever was like Half-Life 2, but people just classified him as obsolete. It's a solid game, with quite a bit of problems for sure.
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User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 28

#3

I forgot that I had The Doctor Who Cloned Me so I played through that and I think that it was really damn good, even better than the base game.

The environments were excellent this time around.
Spoiler


The enemies were also nice.
Spoiler


The driving sequences were well done. I know some people complained about having to drive at all in a Duke Nukem game but I never had any problem with it. The first RC car that you get had me laughing a little with some of its lines. The
Spoiler


Great pacing as with the original campaign, nice length. My only major complaints are the same as those that I expressed earlier - two weapons, loading screens every five seconds, and way too much pointless pornography. I also rolled my eyes at the pimp slap game when you get the achievement for being a hedonist, not a misogynist. I'm pretty sick of political correctness and I'm surprised that the developers felt a need to try and defend themselves in 2012 before the PC thought police really came out in full force. Duke is a womanizer who throws cash at random women and tells them to shake it. There's nothing wrong with that especially since it's just a comedic video game so it was silly to see the developers trying to give Duke some kind of politically correct outlook for one second when it was in complete incongruity with how he is otherwise.
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User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#4

I mean, if a woman didn't want to, I don't see Duke forcing them to.
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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 92

#5

View PostPoorchop, on 02 January 2018 - 05:14 AM, said:

Between wall boobs, statues with 5 inch long nipples, nudie mags, incestuous twins, and so forth, I thought that it was really juvenile and it added nothing of value to the game.

That's exactly what Duke3D had aswell but the main thing is it wasn't the main focus and wasn't put on a silver platter above everything else. Nudity being on a silver platter in DNF however, plus DNF being entirely linear game design wise and it utilizing cutscenes/scripted events to tell the story via npcs etc.. you WILL see the erotica. Liked or not, since you cannot deviate from the path main path in DNF and you get all kinds of builds ups to alien queen boss fights etc with npcs constantly reminding you about "thing with three big titties", you kinda tend to see everything. Case with Duke3D is quite different. Since DN3D isn't a linear game, it's quite possible that you miss some of the erotica in it. Quite a few of them are inside secret areas forexample. Like the first woman and xxx rated tv thing is inside that appartment building in HH. Just an example.

Duke3D does have plenty of such rough adult appereances aswell like DNF. Very first level you start, has advertisements about a ficitonal movie called Attack of the Bleached Blonde Biker Bimbos or some like that. Second level has a pornshop where you can find enemies in private booths with toilet paper and adult rated flick playing on a tv. Same map has the first hooker shown in the bar. Raw-Meat level has asian statues/women whom if you interact with, they will show you their boobs. Various places having x-rated magazines on floor and various poster advertisements aswell. So you see, DN3D did have plenty of erotica aswell but because it's a bigger game, it won't overshadow everything else.

Gameplay wise my biggest gripes with DNF are complete map linearity, restricted weapon limit, regen health, slowpaced movement and lack of secrets. Aesthetic wise I think DNF is totally appropriate looking Duke Nukem game.

This post has been edited by spessu_sb: 09 January 2018 - 09:07 AM

1

User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#6

View Postspessu_sb, on 09 January 2018 - 08:49 AM, said:

snip

Exactly, that was a perfect assessment. On the top of the sheer quantity of the erotic stuff in DNF 3D Realms also forgot about the importance of context: sure, lots of times the sexy stuff was hidden in secret places but when it wasn't it always used the appropriate context. On the second level of E1 you enter a sex shop, then a strip club, in E4 you visit a porn shoot etc. so sexiness was net overused and it was always shown in places where it served the setting. Basically it even helped the more realistic settings of the game.

In DNF stuff like this has no context to it and even when it does you simply don't care because erotica is overused: you see boobs in the intro, you get a blowjob from the twins, you turn on vibrators, you buy condoms, look at lots and lots of boobs, smash up some wall boobs... and then you're supposed to be excited about the strip club AFTER THE BOSSFIGHT WITH AN ALIEN THAT HAS THREE BOOBS. :D In Duke 3D the strip club was exciting and awesome, in DNF it's just boring because you no longer care, you've seen everything already up to that point.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 10 January 2018 - 06:14 AM

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User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 28

#7

As I mentioned, I didn't like the adult content in Duke 3D either. However, all of that erotica was serving more of a purpose in 1996. It was a lot more controversial back then so it was testing the bounds of what was acceptable in mainstream blockbuster games. As you mentioned, it also wasn't the main focus. There were plenty of levels where you could get by without seeing any of that stuff.

Regarding that booths, that involved a fair amount of implication. It's a little funny that aliens are trying to conquer Earth, yet a bunch of pig cops and troopers are watching adult flicks in a sex shop. Things like the toilet paper just imply the act. One also has to wonder what two pig cops were doing together in one booth. My point is that some of the smut was used for a decent bit of humor as opposed to Duke Forever where every chick is essentially a porn star with massive knockers and they all just happen to want to blow you. It's not even controversial anymore.

The idea of playing as the ultimate badass who can get any babe is fine but at least make it a reward. Something like MGS3 comes to mind where you're introduced to this bombshell of a woman pretty early on and there is tons of tension between you two throughout the game but it isn't towards the end after Big Boss has been through a lot that things finally go down between you two.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,752

#8

More controversial back then? I doubt it. I mean, it hadn't been in a video game to that degree before (not a popular "AAA" game anyway), but by the time DNF came along it was definitely more controversial. Duke wasn't called misogynistic in 1996, at worst it was considered just a 12-year-old's fantasy. Not anymore.

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User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 28

#9

Just earlier that decade, there was a crusade by Tipper Gore to have the government step up and address the issue of records with "obscene content." Old folks were freaking out about Prince merely singing about a girl masturbating. There were dirty games long before Duke 3D came out but I don't remember any mainstream titles having sexual content to this degree until Conker's Bad Fur Day five years later. Singing about adult themes is one thing but to have strippers actually flashing you after throwing a few bucks their way was certainly something else. I didn't know about Duke 3D back then but I really don't think that there was anything quite like this on the market prior to 96.

Duke Forever is still a guy's fantasy but the execution just ended up being cartoonish, almost like a self-parody. You're also thinking of the wrong type of controversy than what I'm discussing. I'm not talking about political correctness, just abundant and plainly visible sexual content in a very popular title. I mean Duke went from telling "Proton-breath" that he would still have time to watch Oprah after busting his ass to what we saw in 3D.

The distinction is that Forever sometimes felt like I was playing a porn game. In the DLC, you have to do a few tasks for the lady who owns the bar for what initially seems to be the promise of sexual favors. That's not what Duke is about. I want to shoot aliens and blow stuff up. If women gravitate towards me after I save the world yet again, then cool. Otherwise it's just silly, especially in modern times when we have countless adult oriented games and a bombardment of that kind of imagery thanks to high speed internet being everywhere now.
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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#10

View PostPoorchop, on 10 January 2018 - 11:59 PM, said:

The distinction is that Forever sometimes felt like I was playing a porn game.

I'd love to play a good porn game instead of DNF. :D

This one?
https://www.gog.com/...the_sexy_empire
This was actually a really good porn industry management sim, not too deep, not too simple, just funny as shit. :D
Posted Image

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 11 January 2018 - 10:28 AM

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User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#11

All women in Duke3D were strippers or pod babes. Duke was able to just shove money to non-infected babes and tell them to shake it. They didn't even have lines, aside from the "Kill me." In DNF, women had lines, obsessed with Duke and does roleplay. Why would you call every female in DNF a pornstar, just because they have annoy high pitched voice with sexual references in their dialog? Duke Nukem games always had plain sexual content since 3D. Why are you so choked when DNF does it?

Interactivity was another thing that made Duke 3D so great. Titty City and Burning Bush were like the only two levels overly sexualized women and lots of interactivity and exploration. Plus, Dr. Valencia, the chick that owned the brothel, was probably the least Duke-obsessed female the game. If you just want to shoot things and blow stuff up, just play DOOM or something. Duke has always been parody and not to be taken seriously; from drinking water from a toilet to shit finger painting.
-4

User is offline   X-Vector 

  • 399

#12

The sexual content in Duke 3D is very different from that in Duke Nukem Forever.
It's mostly limited to a few specific instances in a few specific levels and more importantly, it almost completely consists of innuendo rather than overt sexual acts.
The only example of genuine sexual activity in D3D that I can think of is that animated picture of a woman's face in one of the voyeur booths in Red Light District that suggests some kind of hanky panky is going on.
The rest is a static image of a prostitute, strippers (and one 'geisha') baring their (tasseled) breasts, "wink wink" film posters and a raunchy magazine with a highly pixelated nude woman on its cover.
XXX-Stacy does feature a light SM scene but even that is extremely mild and non-interactive.
There is a world of difference between that level of risqué content and stepping on dog poo exclaiming "shit happens" on the one hand and and actually playing around with faeces and dildos, slapping "wall boobs", scrounging for condoms and getting blowjobs from barely 18s and anonymous oral providers in bathroom stalls on the other.

"Attack of the Bleached Blonde Biker Bimbos" and "Sister Act III" vs "Titty City Tampon Night"/"Pooty Party"/"Boob Tube"; same basic concept, completely different tone, which applies to the two games across the board really.
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,752

#13

I do not believe Duke has "always been a parody and not to be taken seriously."

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User is offline   Redxplatinum 

  • -2

#14

View PostX-Vector, on 12 January 2018 - 04:54 AM, said:

The sexual content in Duke 3D is very different from that in Duke Nukem Forever.
It's mostly limited to a few specific instances in a few specific levels and more importantly, it almost completely consists of innuendo rather than overt sexual acts.
The only example of genuine sexual activity in D3D that I can think of is that animated picture of a woman's face in one of the voyeur booths in Red Light District that suggests some kind of hanky panky is going on.
The rest is a static image of a prostitute, strippers (and one 'geisha') baring their (tasseled) breasts, "wink wink" film posters and a raunchy magazine with a highly pixelated nude woman on its cover.
XXX-Stacy does feature a light SM scene but even that is extremely mild and non-interactive.
There is a world of difference between that level of risqué content and stepping on dog poo exclaiming "shit happens" on the one hand and and actually playing around with faeces and dildos, slapping "wall boobs", scrounging for condoms and getting blowjobs from barely 18s and anonymous oral providers in bathroom stalls on the other.

"Attack of the Bleached Blonde Biker Bimbos" and "Sister Act III" vs "Titty City Tampon Night"/"Pooty Party"/"Boob Tube"; same basic concept, completely different tone, which applies to the two games across the board really.


Gotcha, sexual content in both games but in different tones. The pod babes too, showing torso nudity in DNF while obscured in DN3D. I guess I just glanced over it and didn't give it much thought. Maybe because they appear so little in the game. Wall boobs were like in kept in one level, so were most of the obscene things you mentioned, plus some porn mags lying around. DN3D had them posters and mild sexual content throughout the game. They had the Sister Act and Bimbo in Rabid Transit, a normal subway station. Episode 2 had pod babes everywhere. The Sushi bar had the statues flashing their tits.

Yeah, I guess Duke got serious when he was killing the pod babes saying it's better that way, but most of the time he's cracking jokes or threatening to shit down an alien's neck.. Haha

This post has been edited by Redxplatinum: 12 January 2018 - 09:14 AM

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User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 28

#15

X-Vector pretty much perfectly articulated what I've been trying to say this whole time. I didn't care for the sexual content in Duke 3D but it felt like more of a nod to adolescents where much of the content was implied rather than explicit. In Forever, you're bombarded with this imagery and it's as much front and center as the actual gun fighting at times.

I never said I was taking everything super seriously either. Flinging poop around didn't tick me off but I still question as to whether something like that was fitting for Duke's character. I can understand if they were trying to be funny but what exactly are they parodying in this case? It's just something that I felt didn't need to be in the game unless maybe you were flinging poop at aliens to produce actual consequences, much like the bombardment of sexual content - even the pinball machine wasn't safe from this. The game didn't benefit from this stuff.
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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#16

View PostRedxplatinum, on 11 January 2018 - 08:52 PM, said:

shit finger painting.

I never understood that, honestly I view that "feature" of DNF as the biggest tonal mistake of the whole game. Duke playing with shit is so off characther that it's fucking sacrilege.

I just don't get why some stuff is there honestly, some of the "jokes" don't even work like Duke getting shitfaced from one beer and since the glory holes of DNF we know that... uh... Duke can only last 3 seconds. If that's not raping the character I don't know what is.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 14 January 2018 - 10:31 PM

-1

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,752

#17

Those were decisions for gameplay. If it took a realistic amount of time for Duke to get drunk (and sober) the beer mechanic would be worthless and nonsensical to use. Gotta keep the player moving. Come on, guys. You can suspend your disbelief for that stuff can't you? Never understood that silly argument. There are far more legitimate things to criticize in DNF than that. It's just nit-picking at every little thing at this point.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 15 January 2018 - 08:24 AM

1

User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#18

View PostMusicallyInspired, on 15 January 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Those were decisions for gameplay. If it took a realistic amount of time for Duke to get drunk (and sober) the beer mechanic would be worthless and nonsensical to use. Gotta keep the player moving. Come on, guys. You can suspend your disbelief for that stuff can't you? Never understood that silly argument. There are far more legitimate things to criticize in DNF than that. It's just nit-picking at every little thing at this point.

I don't think that it's nitpicking, gameplay mechanics have to make sense in the context of the game world and the characters to some extent. Most games fulfill that expectation, DNF does not. We were just talking about how the sexy stuff in the game does not make sense. In what context do wall boobs make sense? Why did the aliens come up with that? The shit throwing, the beer and the glory hole are the same things: jokes lazily thrown into the game without taking characterization into context. That's something even a "parody game" can't do.

Sure, there are stuff I enjoy in DNF, quite a lot actually but what I never got was when Randy said that "hey, I don't know why the critics were that harsh, it's a 7 out of 10 game" and then he looks into the camera like he's expecting you to agree with him. No, Randy, DNF was not a 7 out 10 game, it was a fucking travesty in every sense of the word and bad game design is not something that's excusable just because you have two good levels and a few funny jokes in there. DNF is the sequel to Duke 3D and it should be judged as such. There are good ideas there, ideas that should be kept even in the next game, those are just ruined by all the bad stuff.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 15 January 2018 - 09:09 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

  • 5,701

#19

For me it just made sense that Duke3D had a few sections with adult-orientated themes.
The aliens are here to take women.
Where's the best place to get women?
The seedier part of town where the adult-type industry is at.
It's a location where women gather in high density.
These are women in the business of using their "assets" to make money. Why wouldn't Duke make the comments he does to them?
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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#20

View PostForge, on 15 January 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

For me it just made sense that Duke3D had a few sections with adult-orientated themes.
The aliens are here to take women.
Where's the best place to get women?
The seedier part of town where the adult-type industry is at.
It's a location where women gather in high density.
These are women in the business of using their "assets" to make money. Why wouldn't Duke make the comments he does to them?

That's all great because it works, you can really piece together why stuff happens... then in DNF you go to the Hive, you see wall boobs, babes tied to dick shaped poles and monsters that look like dicks while they are shooting cum at you. What annoys me about this nowadays is that I hear the opinion "DNF got bad reviews because the reviewers were SJWs" more and more while it's pretty clear that DNF's world just does not work, its jokes come off as juvenile stuff written by a 5 year old. I like adult humour very much but at some points DNF was just embarrassing.


This post has been edited by Zaxx: 15 January 2018 - 02:30 PM

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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 92

#21

View PostZaxx, on 10 January 2018 - 06:13 AM, said:

Exactly, that was a perfect assessment. On the top of the sheer quantity of the erotic stuff in DNF 3D Realms also forgot about the importance of context: sure, lots of times the sexy stuff was hidden in secret places but when it wasn't it always used the appropriate context. On the second level of E1 you enter a sex shop, then a strip club, in E4 you visit a porn shoot etc. so sexiness was net overused and it was always shown in places where it served the setting. Basically it even helped the more realistic settings of the game.

In DNF stuff like this has no context to it and even when it does you simply don't care because erotica is overused: you see boobs in the intro, you get a blowjob from the twins, you turn on vibrators, you buy condoms, look at lots and lots of boobs, smash up some wall boobs... and then you're supposed to be excited about the strip club AFTER THE BOSSFIGHT WITH AN ALIEN THAT HAS THREE BOOBS. :D In Duke 3D the strip club was exciting and awesome, in DNF it's just boring because you no longer care, you've seen everything already up to that point.

Yep, DNF released version basically over-did everything and because of that it got to a point where it wasn't that interesting anymore.

I would actually like to see the 2001 or/and 2007/9 versions, just to see how much (if) DNF 2011 really did wrong. I know that 2001 game did most deflinitely not have any wallboobs, "gloryholes", or whatever brown throwing simulators. Just by you looking at those screens and that iconic trailer, will instantly notice how that was a way more self taking serious game/vision than 2011.

I dunno but I kinda think 2003 version is the start of this escalation into the completely over the top wallboobs direction. How there you see the booth with that tit flashing thing etc .And since according to rumours.. most of the original staff quit the development around 2003-2007. It most probably just didn't work out with the new folks, because they didn't understand the game and George was already way more annoyed with the thing after he realized they were finally running out of that self funding money. So that he just didn't really care anymore but wanted to get "the burden out" and move on from it via cutting is shipping.

This post has been edited by spessu_sb: 15 January 2018 - 03:58 PM

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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#22

View Postspessu_sb, on 15 January 2018 - 03:54 PM, said:

I dunno but I kinda think 2003 version is the start of this escalation into the completely over the top wallboobs direction. How there you see the booth with that tit flashing thing etc .And since according to rumours.. most of the original staff quit the development around 2003-2007. It most probably just didn't work out with the new folks, because they didn't understand the game and George was already way more annoyed with the thing after he realized they were finally running out of that self funding money. So that he just didn't really care anymore but wanted to get "the burden out" and move on from it via cutting is shipping.

Yeah, guess that was it but honestly I don't want to blame anyone for DNF turning out badly, by the end of it development was just a salvage operation more than anything else. And really I was expecting the same tasteless shit from World Tour but I was wrong, that was the same ole' charming Duke instead of the guy who picks up shit from toilets so based on that alone I wouldn't say Triptych is incompetent. DNF was just a mistake in my opinion.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 15 January 2018 - 04:29 PM

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User is offline   Poorchop 

  • 28

#23

View PostForge, on 15 January 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

The aliens are here to take women.
Where's the best place to get women?
The seedier part of town where the adult-type industry is at.
It's a location where women gather in high density.


I'm not disagreeing with any of what you said. However, I think it's possible to portray these areas in a somewhat less over-the-top fashion. If you want proof, just look at Duke 3D. As it was already stated, a lot of the innuendo was implied. There really wasn't that much explicit content and it mostly took a backseat to the game play.

As per Zaxx's point that the writing was juvenile, that's how I feel about much of the game, including the adult aspects. Duke 3D was the adolescent fantasy written by adults, but Duke Forever was like a freak's fantasy written by a totally disconnected old creep. In a lot of ways, the game felt like the product of trying to explain Duke 3D to someone who had never played it. You mention the strippers in passing and somehow the Duke Forever developer interprets it as wall boobs, glory holes, and picking up turds out of toilets.
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User is offline   X-Vector 

  • 399

#24

View PostForge, on 15 January 2018 - 01:24 PM, said:

The seedier part of town where the adult-type industry is at.
It's a location where women gather in high density.


I thought the purpose of the seedier part of town was to make men gather in high density.
Guess things work differently in Duke's world.
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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#25

View PostX-Vector, on 16 January 2018 - 01:14 AM, said:

I thought the purpose of the seedier part of town was to make men gather in high density.
Guess things work differently in Duke's world.

Well those parts were pretty full of pig cops so at least they were there before they got turned into pigs. :D
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User is offline   spessu_sb 

  • 92

#26

View PostZaxx, on 15 January 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

Yeah, guess that was it but honestly I don't want to blame anyone for DNF turning out badly, by the end of it development was just a salvage operation more than anything else. And really I was expecting the same tasteless shit from World Tour but I was wrong, that was the same ole' charming Duke instead of the guy who picks up shit from toilets so based on that alone I wouldn't say Triptych is incompetent. DNF was just a mistake in my opinion.

Uhh, someone correct if wrong but afaik.. Triptych didn't have anything to do with World Tour development. Was made by Nirve Software and GB.
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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 174

#27

View Postspessu_sb, on 16 January 2018 - 02:51 AM, said:

Uhh, someone correct if wrong but afaik.. Triptych didn't have anything to do with World Tour development. Was made by Nirve Software and GB.

I don't know if Triptych even exists today honestly, what I meant was Allen Blum, Levelord and whoever else worked on it from Triptych / ole' 3DR.

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 16 January 2018 - 03:07 AM

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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,752

#28

Triptych disbanded after their Kickstarter game failed to achieve its goal.

View PostZaxx, on 15 January 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

I don't think that it's nitpicking, gameplay mechanics have to make sense in the context of the game world and the characters to some extent. Most games fulfill that expectation, DNF does not. We were just talking about how the sexy stuff in the game does not make sense. In what context do wall boobs make sense? Why did the aliens come up with that? The shit throwing, the beer and the glory hole are the same things: jokes lazily thrown into the game without taking characterization into context. That's something even a "parody game" can't do.


The beer and glory hole things make just as much sense as the steroids in Duke3D. Or the berserk powerup in Doom. Neither of those things are realistic either.

I get the main criticisms for the game, not a lot of it was executed well. But I don't lump the beer item in with that. It just made sense to me along with everything else Duke used to do. It's a game.

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This post has been edited by MusicallyInspired: 16 January 2018 - 05:30 AM

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User is offline   Forge 

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#29

View PostPoorchop, on 15 January 2018 - 09:35 PM, said:

If you want proof, just look at Duke 3D.

I was talking about duke3d & duke3d only. I have nothing to say to defend the writing and graphic inclusions made for DNF
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User is offline   necroslut 

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#30

I think the "shit finger painting" is a very interesting thing because it shows clearly how some aspects of the game was messed up. It should have been like - and I believe originally was like - this: you play through the game, you can pick up and interact with tons of stuff during the campaign, half-way through the game you find a toilet with excrement in it (probably recently after Doom 3 had this "feature"). You hover your crosshair over it. You try pressing the key, thinking they can't possibly have coded that - but they did. Ewww. Pressing every button, Duke throws it away, leaving a nasty mark on the wall. Messing with the player's expectations. It would have been sick, but fun; a throwaway easter egg thing.

In the final game however, you find this the very first thing you find in the game. Before ANY enemies or guns! And it has a "press E to pick up" prompt on screen. And it has an achievement. And a loading screen "tip". And is featured in the goddamn marketing videos. It doesn't work. It isn't fun. They ruined it.

Overall, the now-mandatory on-screen button prompt ruins any fun easter egg-ish interactivity by telling you about it before you get to try it out, ruining any surprise. Button prompts suck. They don't work in Duke.

Blue barrels are heavier than regular barrels

This post has been edited by necroslut: 16 January 2018 - 01:33 PM

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