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Replaying Heretic for the first time

User is offline   Bruno Mattei 

  • -16

#1

I did play Heretic back in the day. However, it was only the Shareware episode. I've tried to play it through completely but I always find myself distracted or accidentally delete everything when grabbing the latest GZDoom.

In playing it again I can say that the map design is usually great. A far cry from the complex labyrinthine design of the later Hexen. But I'm reminded of the one problem I have with it in that the weapons are just Doom weapons. Only exception -so far- has been the Mace weapon. I was a little surprised to find 3 machine gun weapons and I've yet to find the BFG equivalent.

You have this great idea with a Medieval/Fantasy Doom and the weapons are so unimaginative with few exceptions. They only really get interesting when you use that power up that radically beefs them up. But said power up is fairly rare. That and the enemies are -for the most part- re-skinned Doom enemies. Those wizards you fight are fantastic tho.

Making the weapons feel more unique was addressed in Hexen but Hexen falls victim to some of the most confusing level design ever in an old school FPS.
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User is offline   Maisth 

  • 71

#2

I do find Heretic and Hexen to be very unique, both are FPS with Medieval and Wizard type of weapons and architecture which is not something you see very often.

The problem i have with Heretic and Hexen, is that they are not the type of game atleast for me that grabs you and makes you play tons of hours with it, I find that games like Doom and Duke3D are much more easy to grab and get into playing whatever level you want, as for Heretic is not the same, but im still finishing and so far im enjoying it but i still get bored pretty quickly after 1 or 2 levels

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User is offline   CruX 

  • 643

#3

Heretic was basically medieval themed Doom. Left with just vanilla version of both games, I'd rather play it over Doom just because it had mouselook, but both lose my interest kinda quick. Hexen stands apart by having considerably more complex and engaging level design despite being pretty fucking frustrating at times, it makes playing it much more entertaining.

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User is offline   Bruno Mattei 

  • -16

#4

I'm really surprised no one has tackled Hexen and it's level design. Just a few changes to the map system would fix it.
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User is offline   NightFright 

  • 621

#5

The sad thing about Heretic is how weak the weapons are. Most of them are nowhere near satisfying regarding damage output unless using the Tome of Power (which ofc doesn't last very long). However, levels and atmosphere are really nice, so for me it's still absolutely worth playing.

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User is offline   Bruno Mattei 

  • -16

#6

View PostNightFright, on 03 December 2017 - 02:04 PM, said:

The sad thing about Heretic is how weak the weapons are. Most of them are nowhere near satisfying regarding damage output unless using the Tome of Power (which ofc doesn't last very long). However, levels and atmosphere are really nice, so for me it's still absolutely worth playing.


Yeah, you just need the Shotgun/Crossbow and it destroys most enemies on normal difficulty.

Have there been any really interesting weapon/enemy mods for Heretic?

This post has been edited by Bruno Mattei: 03 December 2017 - 02:31 PM

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User is offline   NightFright 

  • 621

#7

Absolutely! OSJClatchford created a truly excellent weapon mod which brings all of the weapons from Quake to Heretic. Not only does this fit into the game, it improves weapon power significantly and makes the game much more enjoyable IMHO. If you are using (G)ZDoom, you should definitely give this a try. I have played through all the official episodes with this and was finally able to enjoy Heretic in its entirety for the first time ever.

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This post has been edited by NightFright: 04 December 2017 - 12:47 AM

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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 26

#8

I hope that some day someone will make a "Brutal Heretic" mod for Heretic because that's a shooter that actually needs that treatment when it comes to its weapons and enemies. I love the game, I always did but yes, the weapons are not exactly superb even though the game is really just a Doom clone with projectile based weapons and an inventory. I still don't get the mace Raven replaced the BFG with, it's just a terrible weapon and absolutely not satisfying to use.

Hell, it makes me jealous to see mods like Brutal Wolfenstein 5.0, the version that finally manages to migrate Wolf 3D gameplay to GZDoom with a modernized design that makes it a blast to play... yes, id's most outdated FPS is a blast to play thanks to a mod, wow:

It's just jarring awesome to play and also very surprising because 4.5 was just a terrible Brutal Doom clone (BD is fantastic but that gameplay really doesn't fit Wolf) and even the mods that aimed to recreate Wolf 3D super faithfully in the Doom engine did not really work because it was just not the same "kill or be killed" gameplay. Brutal Heretic, I need ya. :D

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 04 December 2017 - 03:43 AM

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User is offline   MrFlibble 

  • 454

#9

If you just compare the shareware episodes, Heretic has a lot more thematic variety than Doom, and the levels are somewhat more complex and at least feel larger on average. The weapons might be pretty straightforward Doom counterparts, but there are also new inventory items like the wings, and the Timebomb of the Ancients and the Morph Ovum actually count as weapons too (it's a pity you can only carry one each item type from level to the next).
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User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,493

#10

I feel like Heretic's levels were a lot more detailed than Doom's as well.

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User is offline   Bruno Mattei 

  • -16

#11

View PostNightFright, on 04 December 2017 - 12:45 AM, said:

Absolutely! OSJClatchford created a truly excellent weapon mod which brings all of the weapons from Quake to Heretic. Not only does this fit into the game, it improves weapon power significantly and makes the game much more enjoyable IMHO. If you are using (G)ZDoom, you should definitely give this a try. I have played through all the official episodes with this and was finally able to enjoy Heretic in its entirety for the first time ever.


I'd prefer a weapon mod that goes for medieval style fantasy weapons rather than just porting over Quake weapons.
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User is offline   axl 

  • 92

#12

View PostCruX, on 02 December 2017 - 09:33 PM, said:

Heretic was basically medieval themed Doom. Left with just vanilla version of both games, I'd rather play it over Doom just because it had mouselook, but both lose my interest kinda quick. Hexen stands apart by having considerably more complex and engaging level design despite being pretty fucking frustrating at times, it makes playing it much more entertaining.


I agree. I always felt Heretic to be a medieval clone of Doom and never really played beyond the first levels. Maybe I should give it another chance.

Loved Hexen I and II. Great weapons, great atmosphere... levels can be a bit frustrating I guess.
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User is online   Zaxx 

  • 26

#13

View Postaxl, on 09 December 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

I agree. I always felt Heretic to be a medieval clone of Doom and never really played beyond the first levels. Maybe I should give it another chance.

Give it another go. The thing about Heretic is that you can really play it like Doom but that's not really where it shines (basically it will feel like a Doom clone with worse weapons). Use the inventory a lot, experiment with the items and you'll quickly find out the game has its unique charm. It's just awesome to tome up the peashooter staff you start with and realize that with the power up it's actually a really badass weapon (maybe the most useful in the whole game?). It will be easy to get used to since you played Hexen.

Also the later episodes are where the game really ramps up its level design. You'll see some great art design and the expansion episodes for Shadow of the Serpent Riders will give you difficulty that is tougher than Doom 2. I also recommend trying out the the game's "nightmare mode" which is basically a setting where every enemy becomes faster and stronger: it's great if you're playing on a modern source port since the smooth mouse support takes away a bit from the challenge on lower difficulties.

Oh and be sure to grab this sprite fix pack, it makes the weapons widescreen friendly and it also fixes a few minor sprite errors:
https://www.doomworl...ct-v10-release/

This post has been edited by Zaxx: 09 December 2017 - 03:27 PM

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