Duke4.net Forums: Question for TROR pros - Duke4.net Forums

Jump to content

Hide message Show message
Welcome to the Duke4.net Forums!

Register an account now to get access to all board features. After you've registered and logged in, you'll be able to create topics, post replies, send and receive private messages, disable the viewing of ads and more!

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Question for TROR pros

User is offline   conoklast 

  • 27

#1

I've been working on several maps that use TROR for several months now, so I feel like I've got a basic grasp of how it works; however this particular issue has got me stumped.. Basically I'm trying to extend/edit a 'stack' (4 layers high) but when I add/attach new sectors to the stack I come across this problem where the ceiling/floor of the next layer remains. Is there a simple way to sort this out?

The blue highlighted sections in the left image are the ceilings/floors that I'm referring to. The second image is just to illustrate where the boundary of the RoR layer ends. Just to be clear I want this added sector to be 'open' right up to the top of the stack.

Thanks in advance guys.

Attached thumbnail(s)

  • Attached Image: TROR_question.jpg

0

User is offline   Paul B 

  • 473

#2

Hi, I think what's happening is you are adding additional sectors to an already extended sector. The new sector you are adding isn't an extended sector so it appears as a regular sector with a Floor and Ceiling. If you want existing sectors to have a transparent floor and ceiling you have to extend those sectors up and down joining them to the existing sectors. When you do this the sector Above & Below will also need to have the same wall verticies.
0

User is offline   Paul B 

  • 473

#3

View PostPaul B, on 14 October 2017 - 08:19 AM, said:

Hi, I think what's happening is you are adding additional sectors to an already extended sector. The new sector you are adding isn't an extended sector so it appears as a regular sector with a Floor and Ceiling. If you want existing sectors to have a transparent floor and ceiling you have to extend those sectors up and down joining them to the existing sectors. When you do this the sector Above & Below will also need to have the same wall verticies.


Also what is very useful is joining upper and lower extended sectors by highlighting each layer and using [Ctrl-J] to join sectors. To select these vertical layers you will need to use the F3 view to adjust your Z-Axis so you can select the layers you want.
0

User is offline   conoklast 

  • 27

#4

View PostPaul B, on 14 October 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

Also what is very useful is joining upper and lower extended sectors by highlighting each layer and using [Ctrl-J] to join sectors. To select these vertical layers you will need to use the F3 view to adjust your Z-Axis so you can select the layers you want.


Thanks very much for your help Paul; I seem to have solved the issue using the Ctrl+J trick in F3 mode however I'll have to have a play around with it as I'm getting a few graphical glitches.
0

User is offline   Paul B 

  • 473

#5

View Postconoklast, on 14 October 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Thanks very much for your help Paul; I seem to have solved the issue using the Ctrl+J trick in F3 mode however I'll have to have a play around with it as I'm getting a few graphical glitches.


Graphical glitches in Mapster or Eduke?

TROR works best with Polymer. If you are experiencing glitches try this: Open the Mapster Console with the key '~'

Then type:
setrendermode 4
<press enter>
Close Console '~'

Do the glitches go away?

If the Glitches occur in Eduke just make sure when you start EDuke32 you have the Polymer Checkbox ticked in the EDuke32 game launch menu.


This post has been edited by Paul B: 14 October 2017 - 02:23 PM

0

User is offline   BestViking 

  • 91

#6

It would be great if someone who knows TROR very well would consider making a video tutorial about it. It's kind of abstract to understand from text only since it involves more dimensions and a new interface we are not used to.
0

User is online   Mark 

  • Honored Donor
  • 2,784

#7

This tror sample map might be some help.
https://forums.duke4...__1#entry106916
0

User is offline   conoklast 

  • 27

#8

View PostPaul B, on 14 October 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

Graphical glitches in Mapster or Eduke?

TROR works best with Polymer. If you are experiencing glitches try this: Open the Mapster Console with the key '~'

Then type:
setrendermode 4
<press enter>
Close Console '~'

Do the glitches go away?

If the Glitches occur in Eduke just make sure when you start EDuke32 you have the Polymer Checkbox ticked in the EDuke32 game launch menu.


Well both; normally any graphical glitches display as coloured lines in mapster32, and in game as the hall of mirrors effect. I'm using classic mode and the AMC version of eduke so that I can take advantage of some of the added effects.
1

User is offline   Paul B 

  • 473

#9

View Postconoklast, on 15 October 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Well both; normally any graphical glitches display as coloured lines in mapster32, and in game as the hall of mirrors effect. I'm using classic mode and the AMC version of eduke so that I can take advantage of some of the added effects.


That is probably part of the problem the classic renderer doesn't properly display TROR correctly. Only the Polymer can render TROR properly.
0

User is offline   conoklast 

  • 27

#10

View PostPaul B, on 15 October 2017 - 06:43 PM, said:

That is probably part of the problem the classic renderer doesn't properly display TROR correctly. Only the Polymer can render TROR properly.


OK fair enough - well either way I managed to get a good result thanks to your tip (using Ctrl+J to join stacked sectors)
0

User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor
  • 3,698

#11

If you know what youíre doing you can get TROR working 99% glitch-free in all but the most complex situations in the classic renderer. Iíd advise against dropping everything and simply using polymer, mostly because of the frame rate. Thatís kind of like writing a document on Word without being able to spell, and relying on autocorrect. Sure, you might end up with a decent document, but you should really be learning how to spell first (classic TROR) before relying on it too much.

Whatís happening with AMC?

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!
1

User is offline   Paul B 

  • 473

#12

View PostMicky C, on 21 October 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

If you know what you’re doing you can get TROR working 99% glitch-free in all but the most complex situations in the classic renderer. I’d advise against dropping everything and simply using polymer, mostly because of the frame rate. That’s kind of like writing a document on Word without being able to spell, and relying on autocorrect. Sure, you might end up with a decent document, but you should really be learning how to spell first (classic TROR) before relying on it too much.

What’s happening with AMC?


Sorry Micky, I disagree. The minute you use transparent sloped adjacent TROR extended sectors you immediately run into problems with the classic renderer and TROR. As the Classic Renderer is just not capable of handling it, unless it is implemented on a very small scale with minimal draw distance. If someone is going to use TROR they are better learning with Polymer less problems/ limitations and overall less headache. Once they get the hang of it, they can refine the use of it so they can attempt to make it work in classic as it requires a certain technique to make it work. The key to making it work in Classic is the less TROR the better. Not great if the goal is to play with TROR.

What people will realize is after working with TROR there are very specific instances where it needs to be applied and not to make an entire map solely out of TROR, but knowing when and where to use it. Unfortunately, that only comes after the all the features and the limitations are understood and a few different heavy Polymer TROR maps have been made as a result.


This post has been edited by Paul B: 21 October 2017 - 03:05 PM

1

User is offline   Micky C 

  • Honored Donor
  • 3,698

#13

Yeah sloped TROR sectors are mostly (but not completely) out of the question, but that's not a massive limitation.

Looks like we'll agree to disagree on this one, but the fact of the matter is that TROR of any kind and shape will pretty much automatically work with polymer. This means if you learn it first with polymer (at least with the intention of making it compatible with other renderers), it encourages laziness as you can do whatever you'd like without having to conform to the rules that make it reliable. Perhaps more importantly, polymer TROR reliability cases are a super-set of that in the classic renderer. What I mean is if something works in classic, it's guaranteed to work in polymer, but not the other way around.

Besides, your statement that less is better with TROR in classic simply isn't true. The map Ghost Ship from the AMC TC is a fully 3D floating spaceship with top, sides, bottom, and an interior that itself has many layers of TROR. I can't recall any map coming close to this level of extensiveness and ambition in terms of TROR usage, and it works fine in classic. The classic renderer isn't as bad for TROR as people think it is.

IMO there's merit to both arguments; my scenario describes a somewhat steeper but shorter learning curve. At the same time it avoids people getting stuck in the polymer TROR rut where they can't be bothered taking the extra steps needed for full compatibility. The advantage of your way is that it gives the mapper a slightly easier time of learning the actual controls without needing to worry about visual glitches. At the end of the day it depends what your goals and learning styles are.

Polymer wishlist: Global illumination, SSAO, Bloom, reflective surfaces, adjustable specular (wetness), volumetric lighting.
Mapper of the Month December 2014.

Herbs? Tell me more!

This post has been edited by Micky C: 22 October 2017 - 03:22 AM

1

User is offline   conoklast 

  • 27

#14

 Micky C, on 22 October 2017 - 03:18 AM, said:

Yeah sloped TROR sectors are mostly (but not completely) out of the question, but that's not a massive limitation.

Looks like we'll agree to disagree on this one, but the fact of the matter is that TROR of any kind and shape will pretty much automatically work with polymer. This means if you learn it first with polymer (at least with the intention of making it compatible with other renderers), it encourages laziness as you can do whatever you'd like without having to conform to the rules that make it reliable. Perhaps more importantly, polymer TROR reliability cases are a super-set of that in the classic renderer. What I mean is if something works in classic, it's guaranteed to work in polymer, but not the other way around.

Besides, your statement that less is better with TROR in classic simply isn't true. The map Ghost Ship from the AMC TC is a fully 3D floating spaceship with top, sides, bottom, and an interior that itself has many layers of TROR. I can't recall any map coming close to this level of extensiveness and ambition in terms of TROR usage, and it works fine in classic. The classic renderer isn't as bad for TROR as people think it is.

IMO there's merit to both arguments; my scenario describes a somewhat steeper but shorter learning curve. At the same time it avoids people getting stuck in the polymer TROR rut where they can't be bothered taking the extra steps needed for full compatibility. The advantage of your way is that it gives the mapper a slightly easier time of learning the actual controls without needing to worry about visual glitches. At the end of the day it depends what your goals and learning styles are.


Well thanks for your insights guys; either way I'm sticking with classic as I also like being able to use voxels and the dynamic skyboxes that were implemented in AMC.
1

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


All copyrights and trademarks are property of their respective owners. Instead of reading this text, you could be playing Ion Maiden! ;) © 2018 Voidpoint, LLC

Enter your sign in name and password


Sign in options