[Never Forgotten]

I've been thinking a lot about what the music for the next Duke game, or even the movie, should be like. Personally I think something along the lines of Harold Faltermeyer. Duke is an 80's action hero-like character, so it'd make sense for the music to mirror this. Thus giving the game/movie a score like something from Harold Faltermeyer would be perfect, in my opinion. Listen to his music from Tango & Cash, or even Cop Out, it's very reminiscent of Duke Nukem 3D's music.

But there are other options, the new Doom had a great soundtrack, so something like that wouldn't be too bad. Another option would be to just go full on rock, with maybe a slight bit of orchestral. What do you think?

[Major Tom]

Never Forgotten, on 27 August 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

I've been thinking a lot about what the music for the next Duke game, or even the movie, should be like. Personally I think something along the lines of Harold Faltermeyer. Duke is an 80's action hero-like character, so it'd make sense for the music to mirror this. Thus giving the game/movie a score like something from Harold Faltermeyer would be perfect, in my opinion. Listen to his music from Tango & Cash, or even Cop Out, it's very reminiscent of Duke Nukem 3D's music.

But there are other options, the new Doom had a great soundtrack, so something like that wouldn't be too bad. Another option would be to just go full on rock, with maybe a slight bit of orchestral. What do you think?

Get Andrew Hulshult to do it.



He already made an awesome version of Grabbag, too, so we know he can pull off Duke tunes.

[Sledgehammer]

I vote for Lee Jackson. Hopefully the guy is doing well.

Major Tom, on 27 August 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

He already made an awesome version of Grabbag, too, so we know he can pull off Duke tunes.

I feel like Brandon Blume's version is better.

Spoiler

I actually wonder what else he can pull out if we speak about Duke. I bet MusicallyInspired is talented enough to make something great for games and Duke included.

[spessu_sb]

Never Forgotten, on 27 August 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:

I've been thinking a lot about what the music for the next Duke game, or even the movie, should be like. Personally I think something along the lines of Harold Faltermeyer. Duke is an 80's action hero-like character, so it'd make sense for the music to mirror this. Thus giving the game/movie a score like something from Harold Faltermeyer would be perfect, in my opinion. Listen to his music from Tango & Cash, or even Cop Out, it's very reminiscent of Duke Nukem 3D's music.

But there are other options, the new Doom had a great soundtrack, so something like that wouldn't be too bad. Another option would be to just go full on rock, with maybe a slight bit of orchestral. What do you think?

I like the PSX Duke Nukem 3D Total Meltdown ost alot, N64 menu also, Zero Hour menu also.. basically I like quite alot all of the Duke games' musics. I would prefer it to stay rock/techno focused because I think that fits the game most. Even DNF had some good tunes in it like this DNF 03's tune's drum beat was kinda used as base for all the game's rock songs.

Major Tom, on 27 August 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

Get Andrew Hulshult to do it.

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch

He already made an awesome version of Grabbag, too, so we know he can pull off Duke tunes.

From custom covers I prefer this one over that.

Sledgehammer, on 27 August 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

I vote for Lee Jackson. Hopefully the guy is doing well.


I feel like Brandon Blume's version is better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch

Spoiler

I actually wonder what else he can pull out if we speak about Duke. I bet MusicallyInspired is talented enough to make something great for games and Duke included.

That one is actually alot more faithful to the originals and Duke-like than compared to the hulshut version.

[MusicallyInspired]

Hulshult is one talented dude. He nails the almost-industrial rock/metal next gen style wonderfully. Sounds super professional and polished and is an utterly fantastic guitar player to boot (better than I for sure). He's really good at fitting the mould, though. Which is fine really but it doesn't break any new ground. Does a Duke game have to break new ground musically? Well, no. But honestly it would be nice to see (and I'm not saying I could do any better in that regard either). One of the things I regret not having the opportunity to see through was the Duke Nukem Cataclysm mod we had going. I had some neat ideas for music that would be more atmospheric. Similar to Duke3D but a little more dynamic and catered to specific actions that happen in the moment (like Unreal) that also wasn't all rock all the time. I haven't been doing a lot of composing lately.

I also did a version of Stalker in ages past. And even further back, Streets, which is a remnant from way back on the old 3DR boards when I was trying to join forces with another guy to rock/metal-ify the entire Duke3D soundtrack. He ended up disappearing. I've thrown around the idea of continuing with it on my since I'm much better at production now, but it seems likely that Hulshult will do another album himself since he's just finished IDKFA for Doom.

[necroslut]

Any opinion other than "follow the lead set by Lee Jackson and Bobby Prince in Duke 3D" is invalid. It was a huge part of creating the game's atmosphere. Rock is fine for title screen/menu music only.

Generally stay far away from metal and techno - morons can't keep the ideas of "music I like to listen to" and "music that works as a soundtrack" apart. And take anyone who thinks otherwise out back and shoot them.

[MusicallyInspired]

Rock is overdone. Honestly it was lucky enough that guitars even made it into Doom 2016. There's a reason they didn't want it in, as Mick explained in that GDC video and it's perfectly valid. I'd rather see something more interesting. And not just orchestral either. That's been done to death too.

[spessu_sb]

necroslut, on 27 August 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

Any opinion other than "follow the lead set by Lee Jackson and Bobby Prince in Duke 3D" is invalid. It was a huge part of creating the game's atmosphere. Rock is fine for title screen/menu music only.

Generally stay far away from metal and techno - morons can't keep the ideas of "music I like to listen to" and "music that works as a soundtrack" apart. And take anyone who thinks otherwise out back and shoot them.

Say what you want but Mark Knight did some fantastic stuff for the Total Meltdown. From which, not all is even based around classic DN3D tunes, such as these two bellow.

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, and in my opinion they're totally out of place. Well done or not. Eerie is closer to something that works, though.

[necroslut]

spessu_sb, on 27 August 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

Say what you want but Mark Knight did some fantastic stuff for the Total Meltdown. From which, not all is even based around classic DN3D tunes, such as these two bellow.

They might be good (reinterpretations or otherwise) as songs to listen to, but they completely fucked up the atmosphere of the game. Music isn't just something that you can slap into a game, or a movie, without regard to how it interacts with the other parts of the design.
Or well... you can. But then the end result will be bad.

[oasiz]

Duke has a ton of moody tones, cyberpunk influenced stuff. Very "end of the world" type of stuff.
Ambient analog synth sounds and a bit of spooky elements are key.

I think this has been forgotten mostly when chasing for a more grabbag-like soundtrack.

I'd say that Terminator1/2 soundtrack and vangelis stuff is very close to what is a duke3d sound to me.
Where duke2 was awesome but it was still typical bobby prince "dick waggling guitar" that was in doom as well.

D3d also changed from a more ROTT like sound with intense leads to a moodier one based on available beta vids.

[MusicallyInspired]

Even ROTT had some moodier tracks too, though. Like Mistache.

[PsychoGoatee]

I think guitar is an intrument that could fit on any score. Look at Ennio Morricone for example, he has electric guitar in moody westerns like Once Upon A Time In The West. And the Iron Man movies scores made good use of guitar.

Tracks like Stalker if done with the option of full live musicians today would not sound out of place with some bass guitar and drums etc. At least to me. Rock (and even metal) are very wide ranging genres, you can achieve different tones even incorporating some of those elements at times. But I do dig electronic/synth scores, since it gives it a cool retro 80s vibe etc. At least that's what first jumps to mind for me, 80s scores like Blade Runner etc.

So for me some mix of the two would work well. I actually thought DNF's score was quite well done, some of the parts that expressed danger and created atmosphere with an electric guitar actually sounded pretty great to me.

I also really like the music use in Max Payne for example, a game that's story/atmosphere overall is even moodier than Duke 3D's. But to spice things up one time when you invade a Mafia don's house it plays a track with surf guitar like something out of Pulp Fiction, and it really fit. So I think using the full canvas available, a great new Duke adventure has room for a range of tones and styles in music. But in a nutshell, a mix of Lee Jackson's synth style and some rock/metal elements in the score at times as well for me.

But it's all personal taste. I do want Lee Jackson involved for sure no matter which style was chosen overall. And the tone of the game itself is another question, which we've all weighed in on here and there. Kavinsky is a great example of synthwave with great guitar use in some tracks (like Protovision) for example by the way.

[PsychoGoatee]

woops, hit quote instead of edit.

Here's an excellent piece of music from Duke Nukem Forever:



(Long live guitar)

[Nancsi]

 PsychoGoatee, on 30 August 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

I think guitar is an intrument that could fit on any score. Look at Ennio Morricone for example, he has electric guitar in moody westerns like Once Upon A Time In The West. And the Iron Man movies scores made good use of guitar.

Tracks like Stalker if done with the option of full live musicians today would not sound out of place with some bass guitar and drums etc. At least to me. Rock (and even metal) are very wide ranging genres, you can achieve different tones even incorporating some of those elements at times. But I do dig electronic/synth scores, since it gives it a cool retro 80s vibe etc. At least that's what first jumps to mind for me, 80s scores like Blade Runner etc.

So for me some mix of the two would work well. I actually thought DNF's score was quite well done, some of the parts that expressed danger and created atmosphere with an electric guitar actually sounded pretty great to me.

I also really like the music use in Max Payne for example, a game that's story/atmosphere overall is even moodier than Duke 3D's. But to spice things up one time when you invade a Mafia don's house it plays a track with surf guitar like something out of Pulp Fiction, and it really fit. So I think using the full canvas available, a great new Duke adventure has room for a range of tones and styles in music. But in a nutshell, a mix of Lee Jackson's synth style and some rock/metal elements in the score at times as well for me.

But it's all personal taste. I do want Lee Jackson involved for sure no matter which style was chosen overall. And the tone of the game itself is another question, which we've all weighed in on here and there. Kavinsky is a great example of synthwave with great guitar use in some tracks (like Protovision) for example by the way.

Stalker's rock version was Bullet Dam, the score of High Times. It was awesome.

[Never Forgotten]

I like what a lot of you are saying. For the next game I think it'd be best to get Lee Jackson in, and use either his old style, or a newer rock influenced style.

However, in terms of the movie, I still think Harold Faltermeyer is best. Listen to this song from Tango & Cash, if you haven't heard it already, and tell me what you think:

[necroslut]

Never Forgotten, on 30 August 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

I like what a lot of you are saying. For the next game I think it'd be best to get Lee Jackson in, and use either his old style, or a newer rock influenced style.

However, in terms of the movie, I still think Harold Faltermeyer is best. Listen to this song from Tango & Cash, if you haven't heard it already, and tell me what you think:

I don't think that fits with Duke at all, it just screams "action comedy"; and I guess while that's what a lot of people Duke is/should be, I don't. The fella above who namedropped Terminator is more on the right track, I think...

[PsychoGoatee]

Harold wouldn't be my pick for a Duke movie, I upvoted it because it's awesome though. One funny/great thing about the otherwise just ok comedy Cop Out was that they got Harold Faltermeyer to do the music, and he nailed it, pretty much Beverly Hills Cop type stuff, made the movie twice as funny.

Though his score for Running Man is pretty much just badass now that I'm listening to it:



We could always cut to the chase and just get John Carpenter to do it. (with Lee Jackson and whatnot)

[MusicallyInspired]

I couldn't disagree more regarding the music in DNF. I thought it was atrocious. Generic aimless tracks that were just thrown together at the last minute, it seemed like. And none of the guitars were recorded live! Everything was sampled and sequenced so there's no soul in any of the "playing." No central themes, no dynamics, just awful loop after awful loop. "Look, guys! Rock music! That's what you wanted, right? See there's guitars! So it's awesome!" No. I wanted to tear my ears off in the loading screens in between levels with those monotonous, repetitive, aimless guitar stabs and random drum hits. Awful awful soundtrack. It's the one part of DNF I truly truly despise. The only good part was the title theme which was recorded by an actual live band.

[PsychoGoatee]

The beauty of art/music, all the different takes and impressions on it.

(I don't get the downvoting different opinions thing, but sure I guess let's roll with it. I post a bunch of stuff regarding music, just trying to keep a conversation going and bring different impressions, and you have to be like that over some disagreement of taste on some game, I don't get it.)

[MusicallyInspired]

As a musician, composer, producer, drummer, and guitarist, I find DNF's score to be an insult to music. Such a lazy effort after 12 years. If you like it, more power to you. But unquestionably and objectively it could have been far far better.

[PsychoGoatee]

Downvoting people for bothering to post on here, and on reasonable posts, it doesn't exactly encourage discussion. I just get tired of the negativity on here. But enough of my derail.

[MusicallyInspired]

Oh come on. It was more tongue in cheek than actual disdain (though I do hate that song).

[PsychoGoatee]

How do I discern the tone of a downvote? But indeed I am taking it too seriously.

[Commando Nukem]

It's tragic just how stock all of the music in DNF as released is. It's all off the shelf stock sampled garbage.

I can only imagine what Jeremy Soule would have given us.


http://youtu.be/AHimkB494tg



http://youtu.be/9lhdsMRttTA













I'd love a soundtrack that combines old and new. A little synth, some orchestral, and some metal. Atmospheric stuff that informs the player about the world, and action cues that mix the genres together.

[PsychoGoatee]

Isn't the music I like from DNF by this guy Eric von Rothkirch? https://twitter.com/redchurch77

I don't know what you mean by shelf stock sampled garbage in this case, you think the music cues like the one I posted are from a sound library? I'm not saying that nothing in the game is, but are you kind of dismissing the work that this guy did here?

[Commando Nukem]

Pretty much all of the samples used in the music are stock. Stock guitars, stock drums, stock orchestral.

[PsychoGoatee]

Commando Nukem, on 30 August 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Pretty much all of the samples used in the music are stock. Stock guitars, stock drums, stock orchestral.

That's interesting if true, but can I get any info on how you know this? If there's a session guitarist doing the Duke theme, it makes sense they could get somebody to compose those guitar riffs. I could see the orchestral being stock, especially since as he mentions he was one of the 10 guys who kept Duke going, so maybe not a lot of resources. But it would be really surprising to me, stranger things have happened, but is there proof, such as somebody involved saying so or a link to the track as a library title etc?

If that guitar thing I linked came from a library and it's some track called "Danger guitar 43 by Mark Buckingham", well, that'd be interesting to know. And kudos to Eric for plucking that out if so. But do we know that?

[MusicallyInspired]

The actual notes played aren't stock, but the samples are. All of those sounds are played from stock samples and not played by real instruments. Even the guitars. None of it is real. The main theme was recorded by an actual band (I can't remember who now but they're listed in the credits somewhere). Everything else is sampled and sequenced (notes inputted on a grid or piano roll. MAYBE performed on a keyboard but I seriously doubt it). It was composed, yes, but not performed. And, again if you like it more power to you, in my professional opinion the compositions are simplistic and devoid of soul. Literally just sounds slapped together. But I guess that's all they pictured the music for. I also dream of what Soule would have given us...

[Never Forgotten]

The music from DNF I have branded into my brain, I used to listen to it on repeat... and I've found a few treasures, the Octaking fight song is pretty good, the Stripper's themes are good, and the slower Grabbag that plays over the end credits... also the Burning Bush is good.