[MusicallyInspired]

The way you were phrasing things sounded like you were implying that the notion that "stories are not why we play games" was this ultra broad-sweeping generalization that was true across the board....except for this little niche corner of video games for RPGs and adventures.

[king karl]

necroslut, on 29 July 2017 - 06:24 PM, said:

When you pick an aspect of a design and transfer it to another one you take it out of its context where it makes sense, often creating a mess where different parts of the design struggle against each other, preventing either element to function correctly.

It happens when you shoehorn elements of RPG's into action games or other types of games, it happens when you force movie storytelling into games, it happens when you insert tabletop RPG rules into video game RPGs and so on...

this is exactly right, it is also the reason why the quest marker has moved into every time of game and utterly destroyed the beloved level design that used to be so central to our FPS genre

[necroslut]

MusicallyInspired, on 29 July 2017 - 06:37 PM, said:

The way you were phrasing things sounded like you were implying that the notion that "stories are not why we play games" was this ultra broad-sweeping generalization that was true across the board....except for this little niche corner of video games for RPGs and adventures.

Not really, I said "linear storytelling" though I probably could have worded it better... To tell a predefined story, with characters, plot twists and endings and so on, goes opposite to having a game where a player can choose, act or react somewhat freely. In a lot of games there's therefore a disconnect between the story that is played out in the cutscenes between levels, and the "story" that takes place when the player is in control - GTA games i probably one of the most clear examples here. It has a detailed written story with defined characters but a gameplay that is for a large part very free that leaves the player in control where he will usually act not at all in line with how the character is written.
The story has been written as was it a movie or a book and they have not taken into account that the player will at times control the character(s).

[MusicallyInspired]

Sounds like some kind of video game genre appropriation.

[necroslut]

MusicallyInspired, on 30 July 2017 - 06:27 AM, said:

Sounds like some kind of video game genre appropriation.

Well, I'm not opposed to taking various influences and mixing elements... But there are mixes where the elements enhance each other or at least work together smoothly, and there are ones where the elements clash.

[king karl]

well this is the 2nd or 3rd thread now that has sidetracked into what oldschool FPS is and is not so I think I want to end that part of this and do a new series of threads I'm gana call "defining duke" that each focus on a central set of concepts that have always been and always should be present in duke games and media in general