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OpenIV is closed

User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#1

Open IV has been given a C&D order by Take Two for it's modding tool for GTA games.

here is one of many articles about it.
https://www.rockpape...eniv-shut-down/

The future for making modifications and Total Conversions looks bleak. :(

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 17 June 2017 - 12:44 AM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

  • Polymancer
  • 1,642

#2

Modding as we know it, is pretty dead for modern games (apart from Skyrim).
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User is online   Mark. 

  • Honored Donor
  • 1,760

#3

The article mentions that security features were bypassed. Does that mean no modding was possible without doing that or was it needed only for certain mods?
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User is online   icecoldduke 

  • 988

#4

View PostMark., on 17 June 2017 - 04:04 AM, said:

The article mentions that security features were bypassed. Does that mean no modding was possible without doing that or was it needed only for certain mods?

The problem with GTA5 is Rockstar choose to do a peer-to-peer networking model for game sessions. This means there is a huge amount of trust of each client, because each client is running simulations and reporting the findings back to other clients and Rockstars network backend. OpenIV to my knowledge was singleplayer only mods, but I'm sure some people used it for online hacking. I get why they choose the peer to peer model(because running a huge open world simulation for multiple lobbies would require a huge network infrastructure if they went client/server). It's sad they closed off mod development, and I hope the next GTA game they won't choose the peer to peer networking model and go client server so they can open up mods again.

Unofficial Shadow Warrior eduke32 port
https://github.com/j...3/ShadowWarrior

This post has been edited by icecoldduke: 17 June 2017 - 04:22 AM

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

  • 722

#5

View PostTea Monster, on 17 June 2017 - 12:47 AM, said:

Modding as we know it, is pretty dead for modern games (apart from Skyrim).


Which is going through it's own issues at the moment
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User is offline   LkMax 

  • 293

#6

GTA V recent reviews are sitting at Overwhelmingly Negative (17%).
Niiiiiiiiiiice. I hope that backfires real hard at Rockstar / Take-two.
DON'T TAKE MAH MODS!

-generic signature here-

This post has been edited by LkMax: 17 June 2017 - 08:46 AM

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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#7

View Posticecoldduke, on 17 June 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

The problem with GTA5 is Rockstar choose to do a peer-to-peer networking model for game sessions. This means there is a huge amount of trust of each client, because each client is running simulations and reporting the findings back to other clients and Rockstars network backend. OpenIV to my knowledge was singleplayer only mods, but I'm sure some people used it for online hacking. I get why they choose the peer to peer model(because running a huge open world simulation for multiple lobbies would require a huge network infrastructure if they went client/server). It's sad they closed off mod development, and I hope the next GTA game they won't choose the peer to peer networking model and go client server so they can open up mods again.

Yes it was for people like me. Single player. Why did OpenIV get a C&D? Most likely some bean counter figured modding cuts down on the bottom line of T2.
Fine. Buying a game, playing it and donating some art work to it, does nothing to my bank account either.

@ Tea Monster - Yes, and the latest move makes it clear, that it's by design, not by market demands.

[added] @ LkMax
Looked at the Steam Reviews for GTA 5;
as of 17 June 2017 - 14:50 EDT
All - 259,286
Positive - 185,296
Negative - 73,990

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 18 June 2017 - 03:58 AM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 332

#8

Sounds like modding is getting fucked real hard since E3. First Bethesda announces "paid mods" (and some people even defend this along with media just like always), now this. Can't wait to see what going to happen later.

Considering that Atari is making new console (those news made me chuckle) that would be really amusing if industry died again, just like old times. Shit is really getting worse and worse.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 18 June 2017 - 10:51 AM

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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#9

As Tea Monster wrote, modding is dead.
Modding infringes on copyrights and the bottom line of the developers/distributors.

Thus, go and download the latest Gun Runner DLC, or buy GTA$ 8,000,000 for a $100 real money. Play online, play multi-player, play console.

Take-Two needs your cash, so does Zenimax, Ubisoft and many others. Donate, give, donate, give, donate and give your money to help the dwindling gaming industry to survive.

Me, got the young one's today, swimming, play soccer and have a BBQ and wash it down with some ice cream.

[added]
Posted Image

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 18 June 2017 - 02:13 PM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 332

#10

That statement is pretty arguable if we speak about the time before this crap happened since at that time modding support from big names was rather dead, not modding itself because people knew how to get things done even if publishers used nasty protections/encryption which could only delay mods. It wasn't as huge as it was long time ago, but it was still there and honestly aside from lack of support I blame quality of games too, because let's be real, even modders would lose interested in one or another game in a few weeks due to lack of replayability and this is a huge flaw of every modern big AAA game with very very few exceptions (which by the way have mods). Modding is all about interest, it is the most important thing, otherwise people wouldn't make Doom mods or Duke mods or ROM hacks, etc even to this day. And nasty protection/encryption or lack of proper tools (sometimes with good documentation) can complicate things even further since it extends delay of mods too which means that there is higher chance for modder to lose interested completely.

If modern big games were as great as in 90s modding would be just as healthy if not even bigger.

But right now it is dying indeed. This shit will probably scare away plenty of people if it hasn't yet, first paid modding fiasco already did a lot of damage. Bethesda especially is notable for bringing the most horrible shit in this industry, no doubt people remember that DLC horse armor which started this DLC shitshow, for example or even more retarded DLC ending practice (FO3) which didn't work thankfully. And now they want to charge for mods in offline games because they're lazy and incompetent hacks who can't do the job by themselves. I can only imagine what going to happen if this practice succeed.

And by the way, can copyright really fuck with modding? I'm not very familiar with USA laws, but pretty sure that it's okay as long as modders themselves don't charge real money for copyrighted work (and this means that only Bethesda now can get in legal trouble if they sell copyright protected stuff without permission). This C&D happened because Take-Two want to sell Shark Cards and this shit probably makes ton of money after all, not because modders fucked with copyright law, even creators of OpenIV said that they could even win this, but didn't want to deal with this stuff because it would simply cost too much even if they won (and not that they would have a big chance without good enough lawyer which would cost ton of money alone since we're talking about Take-Two who can hire the most Jewish lawyer in USA).
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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#11

View PostSledgehammer, on 18 June 2017 - 07:31 PM, said:

If modern big games were as great as in 90s modding would be just as healthy if not even bigger.

Today, gaming is big business. Developers and distributors have an army of lawyers on stand-by to clamp down on any given copyright infringement. Something that happened also in the 90s but not as prevalent as it is today. Thus, if you even have one little toe out of line, you are being ask to shut down.

Also, modern games are great. GTA series is still one of my fav games.

[added]


The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 18 June 2017 - 08:57 PM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 332

#12

View PostHank, on 18 June 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

GTA series is still one of my fav games.

Yes, it is good, hence it has mods. But I wasn't referring to all modern games, only to majority of AAA games. GTA has replayability and thus it keeps interested of modders much longer.

This post has been edited by Sledgehammer: 19 June 2017 - 12:59 AM

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User is offline   Captain Kupo 

  • 15

#13

Literally no reason to me to ever get gtav now

Thanks for saving me the money T2
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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#14

View PostSledgehammer, on 19 June 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

Yes, it is good, hence it has mods. But I wasn't referring to all modern games, only to majority of AAA games. GTA has replayability and thus it keeps interested of modders much longer.

Yes, and developers figured, why let mods happen when we could issue paid DLCs instead. :P

The things I don't know could fill libraries.
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User is offline   petrus 

  • 9

#15

Why wouldn't they go after modding, when people are gladly paying for even digital hats DLC?
It's like with mobile apps, you would think nobody buys that crap, but it's a billion dollar business!

Always on drm, dlc, micro transactions, steam, no dedicated servers...
I'm so tired of it all that i almost only play retro games at this point.

And i guess i will not ever play Gta 5, out of protest.
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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 332

#16

View PostHank, on 19 June 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Yes, and developers figured, why let mods happen when we could issue paid DLCs instead. :P

Which is why it's is starting to actually die now (Bethesda is another reason of course). Unless other publishers won't give a fuck about both and keep acting like in the past. But if C&D won't happen too often, I have no doubt that companies will try to exploit modding in their favor just like Bethesda unless this plan will fail.
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User is offline   Jimmy 

  • Busted Nut
  • 3,756

#17

I guess its ClosedIV now.

Thanks Robman. Thanks LeoTCK.
1

User is offline   Trooper Dan 

  • Duke Plus Developer
  • 2,027

#18

Rockstar gave the modding community a lethal injection.
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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#19

Posted Image

The things I don't know could fill libraries.
2

User is offline   MusicallyInspired 

  • 2,263

#20

I'm telling you, DNF's lack of mod tools was Take Two's doing as well.

Roland SC-55 Music Packs
Duke3D, Doom, Descent, Hocus Pocus, and more...
Legacy of Grabbag Metal Medley
01010100 01110010 01110101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01010100 01001000 00110001
2

User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 332

#21

Wouldn't surprise me as well, to be honest. It's a shame that people didn't care much about Take Two before this happened, they're quite shady company and they deserved negative attention, especially when you think that they own many companies or publishers like 2K. Well, guess now they paid for this a hard way. I for one didn't not expect to see as much negative reviews on Steam.

Anyway, hopefully people seriously boycott Take Two after this, even though I don't really have much faith in the West, not after countless "boycotts" that didn't work at all.
Spoiler

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User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#22

View PostSledgehammer, on 21 June 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

Wouldn't surprise me as well, to be honest. It's a shame that people didn't care much about Take Two before this happened, they're quite shady company and they deserved negative attention, especially when you think that they own many companies or publishers like 2K. Well, guess now they paid for this a hard way. I for one didn't not expect to see as much negative reviews on Steam.

Anyway, hopefully people seriously boycott Take Two after this, even though I don't really have much faith in the West, not after countless "boycotts" that didn't work at all.
Spoiler


In all fairness, modders and TC makers are a rare breed, a tiny minority.
The vast majority does not care. The review score of GTA 5 at Steam is now worse than that of DNF, but 100k people play it this very moment.
As for culture: The Western Culture is Bread and Games. Just look at the subject we are talking about. :P

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: 21 June 2017 - 11:32 AM

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User is offline   Sledgehammer 

  • 332

#23

View PostHank, on 21 June 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

In all fairness, modders and TC makers are a rare breed, a tiny minority.

Obviously they are, that's why I mentioned selfishness or why you said that the rest don't care, that's the main reason why they going to get away with it, like the rest companies are getting away with other terrible business practices.
1

User is offline   Hank 

  • 1,191

#24

Here is a link to a short film made with GTA.
https://vimeo.com/222231106

Here is the list of all mods used with it. :P
Spoiler

even though useless, here is a link for a petition to get OpenIV back on-line.
https://www.change.o...mes-save-openiv

The things I don't know could fill libraries.

This post has been edited by Hank: Yesterday, 01:44 PM

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User is offline   Fantinaikos 

  • 142

#25

The real problem from now will be new updates (that is a issue if the tool is too buggy or not able to do much at is current state), OpenIV itself it's too diffused to not being reuploaded somewhere.

https://it.gta5-mods.com/tools/openiv
https://drive.google...2lNV1hLU1E/view

Or go for the offline installer.
http://bit.ly/2opgAhS
http://bit.ly/2q8kmIT

This post has been edited by Fantinaikos: Yesterday, 03:58 PM

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