[Spirrwell]

Hi there!

I've been using Windows 10 since about the time it came out. Regardless, I'm getting continually frustrated with it and it's driving me ******* nuts, and I'm really considering going back to Windows 7. I do dual boot Linux which I have less problems with, but I simply need Windows sadly.

Essentially I want to lean about anybody else's experience who's maybe downgraded and if there's any significant trade off.

I don't particularly care about D3D12 support, and I don't plan on updating my CPU to Kaby Lake\Ryzen which is apparently only supported in Windows 10 even if they may work anyway. However, I do have an Elgato HD60 capture device and its software is only supported on Windows 10. I was wondering if anybody else had luck with running with just OBS in Windows 7?

I do need to be able to use at least Visual Studio 2013, which I know is supported on Windows 7, and it seems like above that VS versions do support Windows 7 SP1. I do quite like VS2015\2017, and I do occasionally make use of C++14 features which require those newer compilers. (Of course I could use GCC\MinGW, but I have never tried to integrate it with Visual Studio, if that's even possible without using some external build system)

I think those are the primary things I'm concerned with. All I want to know is about those things and make sure I can deal with them.

For anyone who's interested as to why I'm frustrated with Windows 10, well it started off really well.

However as time has gone on it's gotten worse. Windows Update broke for me and I tried a variety of fixes and nothing worked until the Creator's Update rolled around which I had to manually install. I'm constantly annoyed with application focus being stolen at random times. I'll be watching a fullscreen video or play a game and boom it's instantly minimized. I've looked through the task scheduler and such and have been unable to find a culprit and that's driving me insane. It's also annoying to have to deal with Windows 10 nagging with Cortana, ads and such. Which I had Cortana disabled, and after I installed the Creator's Update, it was back annoying me again. I shouldn't have to fight against my operating system to set things the way I want.

[MusicallyInspired]

I keep hearing about people having major problems with updates and I'm sitting over here like "what's the problem?"

[icecoldduke]

You loose new processor support(for both AMD/Intel).

[Spirrwell]

icecoldduke, on 05 June 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

You loose new processor support(for both AMD/Intel).

Yeah I mentioned that and that it wasn't a concern for me. I'm interested in the other stuff mainly.

[Player Lin]

I'm not sure I would like using Win10...since it never be able to use the classic Windows UI anymore, and I don't like Metro/Modern UI style...I hope it'll be other workaround when I must get a new computer with Win10 on it...

I'm not sure if you would lose something important, at least before M$ stops the Win7's extend support @ 2020. Just some Win10-only programs/features...

(There are some problems about DX9 games on Win10, like the 4GB VRAM usage limitation on original TES5.)

[MusicallyInspired]

Just get over it and move on. You're like the people who couldn't leave Win 3.x behind when Win95 came out. It's not a bad version of Windows. Stop living in the past. Or get a second older computer that's still running XP or something. Win10 is a whole lot better than that abomination that was Win8. As I understand it Win10 is basically Win8's mainframe and underlying structure but functions like Win7. At least that's been my experience. I do miss Aero, though.

[Player Lin]

MusicallyInspired, on 06 June 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Just get over it and move on. You're like the people who couldn't leave Win 3.x behind when Win95 came out. It's not a bad version of Windows. Stop living in the past. Or get a second older computer that's still running XP or something. Win10 is a whole lot better than that abomination that was Win8. As I understand it Win10 is basically Win8's mainframe and underlying structure but functions like Win7. At least that's been my experience. I do miss Aero, though.

I never said it's a bad OS, and if I want to try "living in the past", I may even can't get to Win7 and 64bits and may stuck at 32 bits OS like XP or 98SE, which isn't good for now.

Don't have room for second computer and lack of UI customization like Win7 and older just other problems, so I guess I still needed take some times to fix them but I don't know...maybe it'll fixed myself when it has happens. :|

[Spirrwell]

I actually quite liked Windows 8. But still Windows 10 is a buggy bloaty anti-consumer piece of crap for me. Windows update breaks, oh you want to turn updates off because updates are broken and forcing you to restart your computer? Well you got to do group policy edits now. Do you want office? Because it's going to continually remind you about it until you stop it. Then start reminding you again after it updates. Oh you didn't like Cortana and had it off? Well the Creator's Update forced it back on.

Windows 10 has been a shitty experience for me. I'm glad it works good for somebody, because it just doesn't for me. If it works for you great. But for me, it needs to die in a fire.

Anyway, I may say screw it just go for Windows 7 regardless of whether I lose support for my capture device or not.

[Duke of Hazzard]

MusicallyInspired, on 06 June 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Just get over it and move on. You're like the people who couldn't leave Win 3.x behind when Win95 came out. It's not a bad version of Windows. Stop living in the past. Or get a second older computer that's still running XP or something. Win10 is a whole lot better than that abomination that was Win8. As I understand it Win10 is basically Win8's mainframe and underlying structure but functions like Win7. At least that's been my experience. I do miss Aero, though.

It's because TEH TELEMETRY, BRO!!!

And most of the people who say this use Android products with Google following their steps everywhere.

I quite like UWP, but I fear for the future because I'm pretty sure Microsoft's long-term plan is not for people to game on Windows. Otherwise they wouldn't release a 4K-ready console with possible keyboard and mouse support. Not gaming on Windows would mean losing mod support except for approved games, which would royally suck.

Spirrwell, on 06 June 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

I actually quite liked Windows 8. But still Windows 10 is a buggy bloaty anti-consumer piece of crap for me. Windows update breaks, oh you want to turn updates off because updates are broken and forcing you to restart your computer? Well you got to do group policy edits now. Do you want office? Because it's going to continually remind you about it until you stop it. Then start reminding you again after it updates. Oh you didn't like Cortana and had it off? Well the Creator's Update forced it back on.

Windows 10 has been a shitty experience for me. I'm glad it works good for somebody, because it just doesn't for me. If it works for you great. But for me, it needs to die in a fire.

Anyway, I may say screw it just go for Windows 7 regardless of whether I lose support for my capture device or not.

I've had two issues with Windows 10 updates so far. One of them was caused by a faulty Nvidia driver, the other was when they accidentally reverted Xbox One controller driver support to what it was prior to Windows 10.

[MusicallyInspired]

Seriously, I've not run into a single issue with Windows 10 updates. Nothing anyone has recounted here has happened to me. Why is that I wonder?

[Spirrwell]

Well as I said Windows Updates are only a part of the problems I've had. Honestly the main thing pissing me off right now is that my application focus will get stolen at random times. I thought it had to do with this NVIDIA telemetry that seemed like it was happening about the same time the focus was getting stolen. So I disabled it in the task scheduler, and it still happens. :|

At random times when I'm playing a game or something it will just minimize, out of nowhere. Then like 10 seconds later it WILL happen again. Then it will happen at some other random time and do the same exact thing.

[Hank]

In the link below shows alternatives for tracking processes in Windows
http://www.digitalci...manager-windows
(I use Process Hacker.)

To move from Windows 10 back to 7 will be painful. I would call on
https://answers.micr...orum/windows_10
to get help., for Windows 10

[TerminX]

Downside: Windows 7 is on the ass end of extended support, meaning only security hotfixes will be released (no regular bug fixes, no feature improvements, etc) until 2020 when support is dropped completely.

[Sledgehammer]

icecoldduke, on 05 June 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

You loose new processor support(for both AMD/Intel).

Is it even a big deal if you have something else besides Windows? It's not like you'll need those CPUs for gaming and Linux is perfect for work.

[MusicallyInspired]

Spirrwell, on 06 June 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

Well as I said Windows Updates are only a part of the problems I've had. Honestly the main thing pissing me off right now is that my application focus will get stolen at random times. I thought it had to do with this NVIDIA telemetry that seemed like it was happening about the same time the focus was getting stolen. So I disabled it in the task scheduler, and it still happens. :|

At random times when I'm playing a game or something it will just minimize, out of nowhere. Then like 10 seconds later it WILL happen again. Then it will happen at some other random time and do the same exact thing.

That's quite bizarre indeed. Another problem I don't have. Are you sure it's an OS problem?

[Spirrwell]

MusicallyInspired, on 06 June 2017 - 01:20 PM, said:

That's quite bizarre indeed. Another problem I don't have. Are you sure it's an OS problem?

Even if it's an external program. That seems like pretty crappy design to let that even happen in the first place. I've never had an issue like this in any previous version of Windows. There's no visible application that it's focusing to. It just plain happens and there's no good reason for it.

[MusicallyInspired]

I've never heard of this issue before so it sounds like it might be isolated and there'd be another solution than downgrading.

[Duke of Hazzard]

Sledgehammer, on 06 June 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

Is it even a big deal if you have something else besides Windows? It's not like you'll need those CPUs for gaming and Linux is perfect for work.

Losing Ryzen support is quite the big thing in this day and age.

[MusicallyInspired]

I use Cakewalk Sonar exclusively for music work. Doesn't work so well in Linux. And besides games, there's nothing else I really use Linux for. I went full Ubuntu years back but just found that my overall experience was cumbersome without Windows so I switched back. I'm not a fan of dual-booting either. Everything that I'd do in Linux I can also do in Windows so there's no point it restarting every time I want another OS. I do like and respect Linux, but I just have no reason to use it.

[Hank]

Spirrwell, on 06 June 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

Even if it's an external program. That seems like pretty crappy design to let that even happen in the first place. I've never had an issue like this in any previous version of Windows. There's no visible application that it's focusing to. It just plain happens and there's no good reason for it.

Windows 10 Pro ain't cheap. Get Microsoft to help you with your unique problem.
I'm curious what this phenomena is. When it is solved, then you can tell all of us here what happened.

[Player Lin]

No interests on UWP(Windowed fullscreen only?? No thanks!), but I'm sure the native win32 APIs still works on Win10, right?

Most of problems on Win10 when it was free upgrade just can be fixed by reinstall whole system, just some rarely cases or unfixable driver problems(like some of unsupported Intel HD graphic). In some system, the Windows updates does weird thing like revert to M$'s default graphic driver after applied the update, but again, it can be fixed by reinstall your graphic driver.


I can only say if you want use Win7, just use it, until the extend support ends on the first month of 2020. After that, I just let the god decides.



Warning: Silly rants in spoiler below.

Spoiler

Whatever you Win10 liker said, it just something I can't get over easily. As a hardcore(?) desktop user, M$ try to force all users accept their "combines desktop and mobile experiences into one OS just crossed my bottom line and pissed me off, is that hard just gives other alt. method? If I want use something looks like mobile UI then I can just use MacOS or other Linux system with similar GUI style. All I can say it's not someone just tell me "get over it and quit using outdated shit" can fix, not that easy and it may caused me get more bad mood on Win10.

[MusicallyInspired]

Player Lin, on 07 June 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

No interests on UWP(Windowed fullscreen only?? No thanks!),...

What do you mean by Windowed fullscreen only? As far as I can understand, that's not a thing.

Quote

...but I'm sure the native win32 APIs still works on Win10, right?

They work just fine and I doubt that compatibility will be going anywhere anytime soon.

Quote

Whatever you Win10 liker said, it just something I can't get over easily. As a hardcore(?) desktop user, M$ try to force all users accept their "combines desktop and mobile experiences into one OS just crossed my bottom line and pissed me off, is that hard just gives other alt. method? If I want use something looks like mobile UI then I can just use MacOS or other Linux system with similar GUI style. All I can say it's not someone just tell me "get over it and quit using outdated shit" can fix, not that easy and it may caused me get more bad mood on Win10.

The whole "desktop = mobile" thing was Windows 8's sin, not 10. In Windows 10 they've rightly reversed that and put it back to normal. No more Metro home screen when you press the Start button. Now it opens a Start menu as before with those Metro tiles built in. But you can get rid of them and have it be treated as a normal Start menu too, which I do. You seem to be mistaken in your thinking or are just uninformed. I wouldn't go anywhere near Win8 for the reasons you described, but Win10 is nothing like that. I literally feel like I'm using Win7 with just a different aesthetic (no Aero).

I'm not a Win10 apologist or anything, even if it seems that way. I'm just correcting misinformation when I see it.

[icecoldduke]

I guess I don't see the problem with Windows 10. Yeah its fucking stupid how they moved shit around in 10(like naming a computer for example is in the about section of settings, really??); if that is the kind of shit that annoys you, most of the time, your doing other things then fiddly fucking with the OS, I would not use that as a reason to go back to 7. I would argue the lack of support for newer hardware, tail end of support for patches is a good reason to stick to 10.

[Player Lin]

MusicallyInspired, on 07 June 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

What do you mean by Windowed fullscreen only? As far as I can understand, that's not a thing.

It may more like the game/program's problem.

Or it also called "borderless-windowed mode", it looks like fullscreen, but if the desktop resolution isn't match or smaller than the game's resolution setting, it'll just try to show with the desktop one and looks not good if the game/program did not coded manual resolution switch when startup/change resolution via game. Even it changes when the game starts/change the ingame setting, since I only using 800x600 on desktop and using default font scale/DPI setting, even in Win7 I still have 3rd-party command line tool for just directly changes my resolution for those game/program can't show proper on 800x600, and I did try to use 1920x1080 desktop resolution and changed the scale/DPI but I never can get used them and then switched back after a while. Oh and I forgot OpenGL programs/games also have this limitation, but at least I running them on lower resolutions.

Maybe what I heard about UWP is not right(it depends on the program), but still nothing changed in my mind.

MusicallyInspired, on 07 June 2017 - 05:17 AM, said:

The whole "desktop = mobile" thing was Windows 8's sin, not 10. In Windows 10 they've rightly reversed that and put it back to normal. No more Metro home screen when you press the Start button. Now it opens a Start menu as before with those Metro tiles built in. But you can get rid of them and have it be treated as a normal Start menu too, which I do. You seem to be mistaken in your thinking or are just uninformed. I wouldn't go anywhere near Win8 for the reasons you described, but Win10 is nothing like that. I literally feel like I'm using Win7 with just a different aesthetic (no Aero).

I'm not a Win10 apologist or anything, even if it seems that way. I'm just correcting misinformation when I see it.

It has Start menu, but the Metro/Modern things still on there and I want the Window Color and Appearance from older Windows.
(I don't know if M$ did put it back now but I asked my friend on last year and it was not, only using 3rd-party tools like Winareo Tweaker, Classic Shell or even using Regedit to change the related registry keys)

I already asked about anything on Win10 when I have friend using it, and he knows better than me, so most of things I already know, I just decided not to use it, not even tried to get the free upgrade.
(M$'s free upgrade campaign was also the one of the reasons, if I want try it, I will do...that GWX just made me hated it, sadly... )

Maybe you just has good intention and thanks but I'm not considering about Win10 until I want to buy the next new computer.
(This one I'm using now just from last year, and lucky got a copy of Win7 Home Premium but just a little more expensive, and I had to get the legal copy of OS since I gave my old computer to my brother with its Win7 Home Premium key too)

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, real full screen exists in Win10. AFAIK borderless windowed mode is a feature that some games provide. It's not an OS thing. All I know is I have proper fullscreen for anything I need and it works the same way as Win7.

And you can change the colour of the interface but it's definitely not the classic grey Windows toolbar/start menu that it used to have. I like it though. I don't see a problem with it. I put all of my program shortcuts that I use as quick launch icons pinned to the toolbar (which I also did in Win7) so I don't really use the Start menu much for anything other than hunting for programs that I didn't put in my toolbar once in a blue moon. It has a nice alphabetical feature, though, where you can list every shortcut that starts with a certain letter, and it groups them by letter. My point is it's not a mobile-laden interface anymore like it was in Win8.

Anyway, don't use it if you don't want to. Just dispelling incorrect rumours.

[oasiz]

I just dislike the forced spying and lack of control
Workarounds are useless if they keep happening even a little after disabling everything, not to mention resetting between updates.
I really cant trust a system that i cant control.

Win 8.1 still works well enough, at least i can always remove the added cruft since it wasnt built in yet.

[Duke of Hazzard]

From experience, if done right, UWP apps are head and shoulders above Win32 equivalents. But it's a new API and also not very popular since its whole raison d'?tre was the mobile project, which is all but dead now with Windows Phone having less than 1% of consumer market share.

The spying is somewhat bad, but the alternative is Linux, which I find dreadful. So I stay with Windows.

[Paul B]

Yea, Windows 10's functionality is more comparable to MAC OS X then to Windows 7. At least Windows 7 was a configurable standalone system. Windows 10 is nothing more then a dumb terminal controlled by the evil empire of Microsoft's services. I hear no end of problems from users and their automatic updates destroying their perfectly running systems. Thankfully, i don't have to deal with those repairs any longer as that falls on someone else's desk. But I can relate to your dilemma Spirrwell. I wouldn't force anyone to use Windows 10. In the future there may be hope, the Russians might save us with https://www.reactos.org/

[MusicallyInspired]

I must either be incredibly lucky or you're listening to reports from a select few people because, again, I've not had one single issue.

[DustFalcon85]

MusicallyInspired, on 06 June 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Just get over it and move on. You're like the people who couldn't leave Win 3.x behind when Win95 came out. It's not a bad version of Windows. Stop living in the past. Or get a second older computer that's still running XP or something. Win10 is a whole lot better than that abomination that was Win8. As I understand it Win10 is basically Win8's mainframe and underlying structure but functions like Win7. At least that's been my experience. I do miss Aero, though.

TerminX, on 06 June 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Downside: Windows 7 is on the ass end of extended support, meaning only security hotfixes will be released (no regular bug fixes, no feature improvements, etc) until 2020 when support is dropped completely.

I'm gonna miss Windows 7 until the day I die. That was hands down the best Windows OS I've ever experienced. We all gotta march forward. That said, I'm having trouble w/ the Windows 10's updates. It gets stuck at whatever percentage is at and the only way to fix this is reboot and try again. This makes the updates resume downloading. Anyone else has this problem?

EDIT: Don't forget about Windows 7 being plagued by ransomware. It's best for you to stay with Windows 10 so you won't get hit w/ malware, viruses, ransomware and so on. Microsoft said that Windows 7 is a vulnerable OS.