[Babe]

Why do a publisher gives money to a developer ? Free gift without expecting anything in return ?

[Alhexx]

An article in the german website Gamestar.de stated that Apogee, Ltd. (aka. 3DRealms) has assured that it will complete the development of DNF.
Bloomberg reported:
"Apogee repeatedly assured Take-Two and the video-gaming community that it was diligently working toward competing development of the PC Version of the Duke Nukem Forever."

If this is what T2 now calls the "breach of contract", then the case is pretty clear (to me, at least):
We know that the 3DRealms studio has been closed, but as far as I know, Apogee, Ltd. still exists as a company.
Also, DNF has not (yet) been officially cancelled.

So Apogee / Scott / George might simply say something like this on 4th June:

"DNF is not cancelled - its development is currently halted due to funding issues. As soon as Apogee, Ltd. is able to fund further development, the project will be continued and completed, so it can be released."

Wouldn't this be enough? (assuming that there is not another clause in the contract, such as e.g. a fixed deadline for the completition)

- Edit -

Babe, on May 15 2009, 06:15 PM, said:

Why do a publisher gives money to a developer ? Free gift without expecting anything in return?

As far as we know (until now), 3DRealms didn't get a single penny from T2...

[naddie]

Raziel, on May 15 2009, 08:19 AM, said:

To reiterate what I've been reposting the last damn day. Money was only involved twice. Firstly when take two bought the publishing rights from the old publisher without 3Dr's consent ( none of that money went to 3dr ) and the other time was a bs contract they wanted that stated 3dr would get some extra cash if they rushed the game and released it that year. But of course they didn't release it and didn't get any money. TT is just lying about it and wording it in such a way so it sounds like they gave 12 mil to 3dr when they didn't

Again, wether they gave the money directly to 3DR or not doesn't matter. It's whatever the terms of the contract 3DR had with their original publisher and/or the new contract they've worked out and/or ammended to in 2007. Did they have a hard deadline? Or was it "WID" but it had to be done, no cancellation?

T2 will have to use the terms of the contract for a basis. Did 3DR actually break any of the terms? Or is T2 twisting things to make it seem like they did?

[Raziel]

Finally someone has seen my point. DNF is not cancelled, not once did anyone high up state that it was. It was all the news sites that assumed 3dr being dead means dnf being dead when in reality I suspect apogee probably would have taken over development or worse case scenario some other trusted studio. Though from the amount the developers poured into it I suspect probably apogee would have taken over. Now we'll never know. I suspect if anything this lawsuit will screw things up.

[Psyrgery]

Kristian Joensen, on May 15 2009, 06:12 PM, said:

"Fact is 3DR has an oblication towards its publisher to give them a game" They do? Where does it say that? If that was really the cas, you could bet Take Two would have sued a LOOOOONG while ago. Heck Infogrames/GT Interactive would have sued them. It is pretty damn obvious that there is NO contractual obligation DNF before any set date.

Hey Kristin,

I've tried to send you a PM, but your recipient Inbox was full!

Sent it over 3DR Forums, but they went offline!

[naddie]

Alhexx, on May 15 2009, 09:16 AM, said:

If this is what T2 now calls the "breach of contract", then the case is pretty clear (to me, at least):
We know that the 3DRealms studio has been closed, but as far as I know, Apogee, Ltd. still exists as a company.
Also, DNF has not (yet) been officially cancelled.

So Apogee / Scott / George might simply say something like this on 4th June:

"DNF is not cancelled - its development is currently halted due to funding issues. As soon as Apogee, Ltd. is able to fund further development, the project will be continued and completed, so it can be released."

Wouldn't this be enough? (assuming that there is not another clause in the contract, such as e.g. a fixed deadline for the completition)

That's exactly what I was alluding to. If the clause was that they cannot cancel, and they are suing 3DR because they've cancelled the project, then T2 doesn't have a case because 3DR did not release any offical announcement that they have cancelled DNF. In other words, T2 assumed they cancelled, breaching the contract.

But again, that's just us speculating. Who really knows what's on the contract, and what T2's game play is...

Quote

As far as we know (until now), 3DRealms didn't get a single penny from T2...

While technically correct (T2 didn't pay 3DR a cent), the fact that the bought out the prevous publisher that owned the rights to publish DNF mean that T2 inherited all of Infogram's assets, including the rights to publish DNF. Remember that SOMEONE paid 3DR. Then T2 bought that someone out.

So 3DR still have to abide by the contract they had with Infograms... which is now T2.

Let that be a lesson to George - make sure there's a clause that says the contract is only valid for the original owner of publishing company, and that if the onwers changed or if someone buys them out, publishing rights revert back to 3DR.

[Kit]

I can’t see this playing out in 3D Realms favour at all. From Take-Two’s perspective they bought into (and possibly funded) a company that faltered on their end of the contract. I’m not sure about the IP but I imagine if they do force liquidation then the code would be a nice form of compensation.

*pictures George destroying hard drives*

Alhexx, on May 15 2009, 08:16 AM, said:

"DNF is not cancelled - its development is currently halted due to funding issues. As soon as Apogee, Ltd. is able to fund further development, the project will be continued and completed, so it can be released."

Wouldn't this be enough?

Considering the time frame I doubt it. Maybe George and Scott would be handed a fixed date for completion, but given their track record, it might be wiser just to hand over the code.

Lotan, on May 15 2009, 07:11 AM, said:

Or look at Sonic The Hedgehog!. If it wasn't done by Sonic Team...

lol nice retort.

[naddie]

I can see this being a dedicated podcast... DNF Talk - All the conspiracies, theories, predictions.... you name it!

Anyone got Skype? lol

[MasterMike569]

Alhexx, on May 15 2009, 09:16 AM, said:

An article in the german website Gamestar.de stated that Apogee, Ltd. (aka. 3DRealms) has assured that it will complete the development of DNF.
Bloomberg reported:
"Apogee repeatedly assured Take-Two and the video-gaming community that it was diligently working toward competing development of the PC Version of the Duke Nukem Forever."

If this is what T2 now calls the "breach of contract", then the case is pretty clear (to me, at least):
We know that the 3DRealms studio has been closed, but as far as I know, Apogee, Ltd. still exists as a company.
Also, DNF has not (yet) been officially cancelled.

So Apogee / Scott / George might simply say something like this on 4th June:

"DNF is not cancelled - its development is currently halted due to funding issues. As soon as Apogee, Ltd. is able to fund further development, the project will be continued and completed, so it can be released."

Wouldn't this be enough? (assuming that there is not another clause in the contract, such as e.g. a fixed deadline for the completition)

- Edit -


As far as we know (until now), 3DRealms didn't get a single penny from T2...

Awesome find!

I hope things work out for the best and George n Scott somehow are able to complete the game and everybody is happy again.

[BxB402]

MasterMike569, on May 15 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

Awesome find!

I hope things work out for the best and George n Scott somehow are able to complete the game and everybody is happy again.

I second that. I'm one of the ones that has been waiting for the FULL 12 years for this game. Many fond memories of Wolf3D and Duke 3D...and damnit...this gen needs some real Duke.

[BxB402]

Caine, on May 15 2009, 01:03 PM, said:

i hope duke will be released of course, but if it's funding issues and the ex-devs got a new job where do they take new devs fast? it can last a bit longer and duke will take much more time and george sees his graphic of duke and says, "AHHH shit again new engine" lol

Meh, they don't need a new engine. If the leaked stuff is any indication this game is badass. They need to get it done and then they can be anal with a sequel. Because if that leaked storyline doc was still on point, The end of DNF is a major opening for a sequel.

Yes i read the spoilers and all that. Don't care about the story...it's the gameplay that made me love that manly beefcake. lmao

[HorrorshowChi]

peoplessi, on May 15 2009, 02:38 AM, said:

I'm so glad that people out-of-nowhere make stupid remarks... oh wait, I'm not. If you know how the deals that are between Take Two and 3D Realms, please elaborate, otherwise you need to shut the fuck up

Well, maybe that's because I finally registered to post that? Imagine that! It doesn't matter whether I know the specifics, 3DR is going to lose. And way to tell me to shut the fuck up over the internet you nerd. All these threads are pure speculation and I'd hardly even doing that so lay off. I was simply saying that I'm glad T2 sued 3DR with their New York lawyers because GB is a bitch (keep in mind up until May 6th I used to have devout respect in the guy).

[Mr.Deviance]

Caine, on May 15 2009, 11:03 AM, said:

i hope duke will be released of course, but if it's funding issues and the ex-devs got a new job where do they take new devs fast? it can last a bit longer and duke will take much more time and george sees his graphic of duke and says, "AHHH shit again new engine" lol

True!
Let's just hope they win the trial fast or don't go to a trial and get this game done in the end!

[NonSequitur]

Out of all the discussion that's been happening over the last week and a bit, the only solid conclusion that we can all come to without speculating is this: Duke Nukem Forever may, or may not come out.

[Ramen4ever]

NonSequitur, on May 15 2009, 10:15 AM, said:

Out of all the discussion that's been happening over the last week and a bit, the only solid conclusion that we can all come to without speculating is this: Duke Nukem Forever may, or may not come out.

lol.

[Thndr]

Page late for this but:

Lotan, on May 15 2009, 11:11 AM, said:

Or look at Sonic The Hedgehog!. If it wasn't done by Sonic Team...

You mean it would be a better game?
(That's kind of a bad analogy, especially with most recent Sonic games sucking since Sonic Adventure 2)

[NonSequitur]

Where are all the bright sparks from the 3D Realms forum that wanted to donate to save the company? How about they all pitch in to pay for 3DR's oncoming legal fees?

Seriously, anyone who ever thought that they'd be able to reach $5m in donations was smoking some really bad... or really good crack. I guess they were all the same people who thought it was a publicity stunt.

[MasterMike569]

NonSequitur, on May 15 2009, 10:27 AM, said:

Where are all the bright sparks from the 3D Realms forum that wanted to donate to save the company? How about they all pitch in to pay for 3DR's oncoming legal fees?

Seriously, anyone who ever thought that they'd be able to reach $5m in donations was smoking some really bad... or really good crack. I guess they were all the same people who thought it was a publicity stunt.

Haha I donut think the donations would of gone well anyway unless it was well organized by the company itself and even then donations would never work out.

[Mr.Deviance]

MasterMike569, on May 15 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

Haha I donut think the donations would of gone well anyway unless it was well organized by the company itself and even then donations would never work out.

Hey how about we all start spamming take two with hatred to show them they are loosing customers that are fans of duke nukem.
Maybe that way we will scare them out of this trial!
After a few thousands mails maybe they will rethink this trial bs!

[Ramen4ever]

No.

This is going to play out one way or another.

[NonSequitur]

Mr.Deviance, on May 16 2009, 04:34 AM, said:

Hey how about we all start spamming take two with hatred to show them they are loosing customers that are fans of duke nukem.
Maybe that way we will scare them out of this trial!
After a few thousands mails maybe they will rethink this trial bs!

Eh, the first thought that came to my mind when I saw that T2 was suing 3DR was, "they want the IP, and they want it bad." A couple of thousand angry customers vs acquiring a franchise worth $30m, or possibly more? They're gonna rape the corpse of 3DR using George as lube until they get what they want.

[NonSequitur]

Ramen4ever, on May 16 2009, 04:38 AM, said:

No.

This is going to play out one way or another.

I agree.

I believe that all these events will lead to some sort of conclusion. That much is certain.

[Drazula]

This gets tricky for Scott. If Take 2 establishes that Duke Nukem belongs to 3DR, then T2 can go after any royalties received for using Duke, including the Duke Trilogy. If it is not clear cut who owns Duke (3DR or Apogee) then the vail of the 3DR corporation may be broken and Take 2 could go after Apogee as a whole (not just the 3DR subsidiary).

[BxB402]

NonSequitur, on May 15 2009, 01:41 PM, said:

Eh, the first thought that came to my mind when I saw that T2 was suing 3DR was, "they want the IP, and they want it bad." A couple of thousand angry customers vs acquiring a franchise worth $30m, or possibly more? They're gonna rape the corpse of 3DR using George as lube until they get what they want.

That mental image will give me nightmares. THANKS!

[Dman]

Well it looks like my IP was banned off the 3DR forums (because I can access it through a proxy).

I guess my statistical analysis of the percentage of the game completed was a little too close for comfort and struck a nerve with someone.

[NonSequitur]

Dman, on May 16 2009, 04:44 AM, said:

Well it looks like my IP was banned off the 3DR forums (because I can access it through a proxy).

I guess my statistical analysis of the percentage of the game completed was a little too close for comfort and struck a nerve with someone.

Eh? Repost it here?

Edit: Nevermind, saw it. Your analysis doesn't really bring anything new to the table. Apparently a 3DR ex-employee said something along the lines of it being completed within the year, so I don't see why you would have got IP banned. Maybe something is going funky with your connection? Your post is still there - if it upset them that much it'd be gone.

[Thndr]

Drazula, on May 15 2009, 02:43 PM, said:

This gets tricky for Scott. If Take 2 establishes that Duke Nukem belongs to 3DR, then T2 can go after any royalties received for using Duke, including the Duke Trilogy. If it is not clear cut who owns Duke (3DR or Apogee) then the vail of the 3DR corporation may be broken and Take 2 could go after Apogee as a whole (not just the 3DR subsidiary).

Apogee LLC is basically licensing the name of Apogee, and the DUke Nukem name to make Duke Nukem Trilogy

Apogee LTD is the official name of the company ran by Scott and George, which operates under the name 3DRealms


What the confusing thing is, is Duke Nukem IP the property of Scott and George, or is it the property of 3DRealms?

Dman, on May 15 2009, 02:44 PM, said:

Well it looks like my IP was banned off the 3DR forums (because I can access it through a proxy).

I guess my statistical analysis of the percentage of the game completed was a little too close for comfort and struck a nerve with someone.

Or that the forums have had enough of the speculation?

[Dman]

Here are the two replies I put up:

Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by StrikerMan780 View Post
What makes you think that, ****tard? If you had payed attention, 99% of the game was pretty damn near completion at the time of 3DR's Closing.

Nope, if you seen the leaked info last week not one single level was 100% complete.

The highest completed levels had only 90% complete, and they had one with 0% complete.

In total the average for the total game was 60.5% complete (from the info leaked last week)

Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banko View Post
If you look at the date of that document it was from last year...

If you extrapolate the tasks complete/uncompleted which the percentage came out to be something like another 15% to 20% more to be complete.

That gives them only completing 24.5% in a years worth of work. Thats not very promising, which would mean it would take roughly another 6 months to a year for them to complete the full game.

[BxB402]

6 months to a year is a flash compared to the last 12 years.

[Jobi-Wan Kenobi]

The Judge is called Gammaman?

and why it was corrected to "Ramas"?

the drawn lines etc...who wrote it on these official papers?

This all looks kinda made up.