[LeoTCK]

The new 96 beta, august...well theres more than the missile launcher, the spike bombs have spikes and work like in the final game and railgun has yet another look here with a cool effect going through it.

[TerminX]

That August beta is the tits. It's very special in that it wasn't a build submitted to 3DR for feedback or compiled for any particular purpose other than just to work on the game.

[LeoTCK]

Yea well, what's for sure is that the $airport level has been worked on further again (its different in each version, !airport seemed to stay same though), we can forget about the theory that the "bullet train" map got that second floor because there wasn't one in airport. Initially yes but ever since the november 96 beta that second floor was there in airport and no sign of bullet train yet, there is half a year gap between that beta and the 97 one, probably somewhere between those versions would be the explanation for the mysterious blowable ceiling in the $dozer map which serves no purpose. Its also funny how dozer is so broken except the "!" version which is different and more like crude oil until the 97 beta.

[LeoTCK]

swclip finally works in the august beta. But old maps like $BOAT.MAP are broken for the first time, switches dont take effect/other events.

[PikaCommando]

How many Shurikens is thrown in the last 1996 build? I think it's three and the code wasn't changed, but my view in third person and the amount of shurikens that get stuck to walls is two.

[LeoTCK]

All three of them actually. The third one most often ricochets off the wall elsewhere.

It also depends on the angle, sometimes two get bounced off.

[icecoldduke]

TerminX, on 28 May 2017 - 10:17 AM, said:

That August beta is the tits. It's very special in that it wasn't a build submitted to 3DR for feedback or compiled for any particular purpose other than just to work on the game.

Wasn't the game developed in house? Could you elaborate more on the 3dr submission process?

[TerminX]

icecoldduke, on 29 May 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Wasn't the game developed in house? Could you elaborate more on the 3dr submission process?

My understanding is that it wasn't originally developed in-house, but it was brought in after Duke Nukem 3D was finished to get it up to some of the same standards.

[LeoTCK]

TerminX, on 29 May 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

My understanding is that it wasn't originally developed in-house, but it was brought in after Duke Nukem 3D was finished to get it up to some of the same standards.

That's basically right. You could also think of how it was developed more like mods are being developed these days etc.
EDIT: What is really new in this beta is the first iterations of the volcano maps both as $volcano and volcano and very early volcano1 volcano3 and volcano4

[Doom64hunter]

I hope the release of these betas gives Gearbox the necessary nudge to do the same with the Duke3D betas.

(I kind of doubt it though...)

[icecoldduke]

TerminX, on 29 May 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:

My understanding is that it wasn't originally developed in-house, but it was brought in after Duke Nukem 3D was finished to get it up to some of the same standards.

Who was the team that first started working on Shadow Warrior? It would be nice to see some of the original game design docs and any design docs that came around after it was brought in house(if either exist).

[TerminX]

icecoldduke, on 31 May 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Who was the team that first started working on Shadow Warrior? It would be nice to see some of the original game design docs and any design docs that came around after it was brought in house(if either exist).

I want to say it was just Jim Norwood at first, but I'm not certain. No real design docs, though... just text files describing ideas.

[LeoTCK]

Why aren't those text files released then? Either way, design docs don't have to be in ".doc" often they are just text files or perhaps rtf given the dev history, but if the text files served the purpose enough why not. I saw some names already in some loose text files in the betas around. There was one mapper who later dropped from the project it seems.

[Svanis]

Not sure if off-topic but there is this, which probably fit in with one of the beta builds:

 SWOld_8.jpg (436.22K)
Number of downloads: 38

I'm only somewhat familiar with Shadow Warrior, I've played it on a few occasions but never fully completed it.
I'm not familiar with the story in the final game either, but the lava boss makes sense if Mt. Fuji erupted in the beta and you had to go there to defeat this big monster...

EDIT: Note how "hear", "see" and "watch" are all in italics to help with the eventual programming of the intro sequence.

Hendricks, you mentioned having more stuff? Are there even more builds on the way? Also, you mentioned two of the betas were protected by AEGIS, yet there's only one in the Dosbox list.

[Hendricks266]

Svanis, on 05 June 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

Also, you mentioned two of the betas were protected by AEGIS, yet there's only one in the Dosbox list.

I cracked one.

[PikaCommando]

Svanis, on 05 June 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

Not sure if off-topic but there is this, which probably fit in with one of the beta builds:

Where is this from? I'm not sure where this fits, since we don't know how the '94 version begins and the '95 and '96 versions involve the player raiding the island of the mage/mad scientist Kirin (I'll bet it's early '95 though, since it has Rippers and Coolies that had animations for carrying their baskets up and down). I don't think Lo Wang as a character is conceived until the late '96 build where it resembles the final version with Zilla as the main villain.

Also, this text seems to support the notion that Coolies were originally harmless NPCs.

[K1n9_Duk3]

Originally posted here: https://forums.duke4...post__p__192816

[PikaCommando]

Hmm...



Were these "3D Creature Cameras" reworked into the RC cars?

Now that these builds are available, it really sheds a new light on these dev diary entries.



I wonder what could these story changes be?



Is this level in any of the builds?

[icecoldduke]

PikaCommando, on 05 June 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

[img]http://web.archive.org/web/19961222201357im_/http://www.3drealms. com:80/graphics/sw/sw0426.jpg[/img]

Do any of the Alpha builds have the Uzi's with the silencers on them?

[Hendricks266]

icecoldduke, on 05 June 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

Do any of the Alpha builds have the Uzi's with the silencers on them?

Yes, and we're considering using them in DK.

[icecoldduke]

Hendricks266, on 05 June 2017 - 06:05 PM, said:

Yes, and we're considering using them in DK.

Do you know which build off hand?

[TerminX]

Please don't use them.

[icecoldduke]

TerminX, on 05 June 2017 - 06:13 PM, said:

Please don't use them.

Check your PM.

[PikaCommando]

icecoldduke, on 05 June 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

Do any of the Alpha builds have the Uzi's with the silencers on them?

The first '96 build was the first to have it.


By the way, the last '95 build is a trove of cool shit.

Some Godzilla monster that's right next to the Lava Boss (the Lava Boss first appears in this build):


Thunderclaw weapon seen in the original cover art:


Cool Hydra-looking enemy:

First appeared in a November 15 1995 screenshot:


New Crossbow sprite:


First time this weird green-skinned ninja appears (stays until the first '96 build, then replaced by the blue-hooded ones):


First time the Coolie can kamikaze (and Coolie Ghost):

Due to how the kamikaze and Coolie Ghost sprites are missing in prior builds but the dismembered Coolies (being arrowed, sliced in half, etc) were always there, I think they really were harmless NPCs in prior builds but turned evil here for some reason. Also, this is the first build where the Coolies no longer have their sitting and "pickup/putdown boxes" animations, so there's that supporting this theory too.

Too bad it's all locked behind that protection thing, would love to see all these in action.

[icecoldduke]

I don't personally feel the crossbow and the older enemies fit into the final shadow warrior universe. It would be interesting if someone made a mod to Shadow Warrior, that reinvisioned the older Shadow Warrior idea.

[LeoTCK]

PikaCommando, on 05 June 2017 - 05:39 PM, said:

Hmm...



Were these "3D Creature Cameras" reworked into the RC cars?

Now that these builds are available, it really sheds a new light on these dev diary entries.



I wonder what could these story changes be?



Is this level in any of the builds?

I think that idea was never implemented and instead they turned it into the RC cars. Sounds consistent and then they forgot later they had that idea in the first place.

That level, it's the $plax1.map basically and it exists in all of the later builds.

As for the crossbow, I feel like it does belong in shadow warrior, perhaps less in the release version but that late 95 version must be so GOAT so I wish the efforts are resumed. God, those "Hydra Monsters" and all, forgot all about them.

[Svanis]

The '95 build invokes in me feelings of Hexen or Heretic, rather than the final's Duke Nukem 4 feeling, like a spiritual successor to Duke 3D.

It just seems more unique, like a good version of seven paladins.

I'm surprised nobody has brought this up yet, but I believe the faces in the HUD in the '94 version are your player character (prob left) and the enemy you're fighting (prob right). It could be the other way around, too.

I can't wait for the late 95 build to get cracked, and I hope it's not as broken as some of the '96 builds are.

[icecoldduke]

LeoTCK, on 05 June 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

That level, it's the $plax1.map basically and it exists in all of the later builds.

What does the term "plax" mean? I've seen variables in the code with the term "Plax" in it as well.

[LeoTCK]

No clue, it just has relation to the sky palace levels. Probably taken right out of Unreal when Eric Reuter knew his older Gray Stone Sky City levels couldn't make it anymore. That face on the pillars also reminds the Unreal alpha Gargoyle. Eric has worked on both games though ultimately in the case of Unreal, no levels of him survived to the final version or were recovered, though some of his geometry was reused and he worked on the playstation port of the game and an expansion pack that still remains lost. So only his psx work and his single unreal alpha level is known. And tons of screenshots from all his other levels.

[sirlemonhead]

I've seen it used in parallax sky code.