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Blood 3 tech idea

User is offline   BloodGuy 

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#1

I recently had a nice idea for a possible Blood 3 game

The idea is to mix some techniques of the old games with some newer ones. I am a hobby game developer and brought the idea to live.
The goal is to keep the old pixeled graphic-style alive.
The monsters are 3D models that get converted to pixeled 2D-sprites like in the original Blood or Duke3D. But the conversion is in real-time that brings smoother animations and not only 8 different angels of view for the model.
Same idea for the weapons.

Look at the feet, there you see the sprite-conversion :D


Posted Image

Combined with some animated (also pixeled) plants and other stuff this could become a nice new style-mix
Take a look at the video:



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User is online   Hendricks266 

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  #2

If you're doing the conversion in real time using a shader, great work, but you should only focus on replicating the art style, not the technical limitations of the medium (i.e. pixels). See the point made at the very end of this insightful article. http://www.dinofarmg...nces-pixel-art/
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User is offline   BloodGuy 

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#3

View PostHendricks266, on 18 March 2017 - 12:39 PM, said:

If you're doing the conversion in real time using a shader, great work, but you should only focus on replicating the art style, not the technical limitations of the medium (i.e. pixels). See the point made at the very end of this insightful article. http://www.dinofarmg...nces-pixel-art/



But the pixels is what gives these games it's unique style. Tried the BLOOD zombie right away:

Posted Image

Posted Image

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User is online   Hendricks266 

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  #4

View PostBloodGuy, on 18 March 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

But the pixels is what gives these games it's unique style.

No, you're wrong. Pixels were the only option they had due to limitations on technology at the time.

You clearly did not read the article I linked.

Their unique style comes from the artistic vision that their creators had. For example, the sculptures that Kevin Kilstrom made:

Posted Image
(pictured: Tchernobog)
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User is offline   HulkNukem 

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#5

I think this is a cool style and look for a game, but I would like it to be it's own original game. Take inspirations from Blood for sure, but make something unique and original. Make a nice straight forward indie FPS with handmade levels with this art style and you have a recipe for a solid game. Dusk is looking really spectacular for this very reason, more so than Strafe is.
If there was a Blood 3, I would love it to be more AAA looking, like what Fear and Condemned were for the time.

This post has been edited by HulkNukem: 18 March 2017 - 02:33 PM

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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#6

I know a lot of people love the look of the sprites. I personally quite like the look of this. It would be a nice half-way point between sprites and models - especially if you didn't limit yourself to the original sprite dimensions.

Hey, wait a minute, how did you edit the shaders in EDuke?

This post has been edited by Tea Monster: 18 March 2017 - 04:14 PM

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User is online   Micky C 

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#7

View PostTea Monster, on 18 March 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

Hey, wait a minute, how did you edit the shaders in EDuke?



He never said he was using eduke.

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User is online   icecoldduke 

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#8

View PostBloodGuy, on 18 March 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

But the pixels is what gives these games it's unique style. Tried the BLOOD zombie right away:

As Hendricks said you are completely wrong. You need to analyze the composition as a whole to understand the art style. An example of what you should be looking at is the color palette. Even in modern games, you define what colors your project is going to have. I think its pretty cool what you've done from a tech perspective, but the art style in what you have shown off thus far, is so far off its ridiculous.

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User is offline   BloodGuy 

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#9

View PostTea Monster, on 18 March 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

Hey, wait a minute, how did you edit the shaders in EDuke?

I use a homebrewed engine that I just created for this.
=============================================
The advantage of this pixeled sprite conversion is that you need not be agreat artist for 3D-modeling and texturing (like me :lol: ). I created the 3D model of the zombie in about an hour from scratch, and tried my best to texture it as good as possible.
When you create a 128x128 sprite out of it you won't see the bad model quality. 256x256 is also okay I guess.

Posted Image

And a ingame fight :D

Posted Image

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This post has been edited by BloodGuy: 19 March 2017 - 04:29 AM

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

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#10

For the love of god, please make a game out of this
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User is online   Mark. 

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#11

I'm more of a fan for hi res content but I understand the lo res nostalgia a lot of players have. However I would bump up the quality of model skins a bit from what you have in your test model. Better detail while still retaining the older look can be done.
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User is offline   Tea Monster 

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#12

If you are making a low-res model of this, why not just use the model?
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User is offline   spessu_sb 

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#13

This is cool, always loved Blood.

Zombie hacking animations look very fitting but the run animation could still be better.

View PostHulkNukem, on 18 March 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Dusk is looking really spectacular for this very reason, more so than Strafe is.
If there was a Blood 3, I would love it to be more AAA looking, like what Fear and Condemned were for the time.


Personally I really dislike how Dusk looks visually/graphically, it's quite awful to be honest. I feel like it looks actually even worse than some Nes games and definitely looks more worse than original Quake did back in the day.

Fullblown AAA game Blood 3 would be awesome but I don't see it happening due to some specific circumstances.
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User is online   icecoldduke 

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#14

View PostBloodGuy, on 19 March 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

The advantage of this pixeled sprite conversion is that you need not be agreat artist for 3D-modeling and texturing (like me :lol: ). I created the 3D model of the zombie in about an hour from scratch, and tried my best to texture it as good as possible.

You need to create a art bible for your game(google art bible for games), the pixelated sprite conversion your doing is cool, but not enough to create a finished product. Eventually you will have to make content, and you really need to understand how composition works in the final product, and thus far you haven't shown you understand that yet :). Pixelation while is part of the composition(in your case), represents < 5% of the entirety of the composition. What kind of levels are you going to have(e.g. a graveyard, mansion, etc). Your idea just isn't flushed out enough yet.

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User is offline   BloodGuy 

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#15

Thx all for the feedback.
I guess I will create an own game concept and make a first level like in Blood/Duke
...and then offer it you all for download and testing

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User is online   Jimmy 

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#16

While the style of the original artist is undoubtedly important, pixelization also undeniably has an effect on the final product. Another aspect a lot of people forget about, especially a lot of these dumb indie developers trying to cash in on retro gaming, is palettes. Palettes play a huge role in what the art and resulting atmosphere of the game are like. 75% of it is the artist, 25% of it is the technical limitation.
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User is online   icecoldduke 

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#17

View PostBloodGuy, on 19 March 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

Thx all for the feedback.
I guess I will create an own game concept and make a first level like in Blood/Duke
...and then offer it you all for download and testing

https://www.google.c...ble+for+games&*

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User is online   Altered Reality 

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#18

LOL, seeing pixelfags as they fail to understand the difference between an artistic choice and a technical limitation is amusing.

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User is online   Jimmy 

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#19

If you're gonna downvote my post you better respond to it you fucking pussy.
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User is online   icecoldduke 

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#20

View PostJimmy, on 19 March 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

If you're gonna downvote my post you better respond to it you fucking pussy.


I down voted you again because your last response was overkill, that being said I down voted your first post on accident.

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User is offline   HulkNukem 

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#21

Don't be a pussy and worry about downvotes
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User is online   Jimmy 

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#22

Well in that case! <):^)

View Posticecoldduke, on 19 March 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

I down voted you again because your last response was overkill, that being said I down voted your first post on accident.

Overkill? That's par for the course.
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User is offline   fuegerstef 

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#23

Also the hardware of that time played an important part.

Yes, this example is extreme, but it brings the essence across.

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User is offline   High Treason 

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#24

It brings about a good point. Recently a friend of mine really wanted to get RGB out of his Mega Drive, he then had a hard time understanding my explanation that it would actually look worse because the developers often relied on the "softer" RF / Composite signals and how CRT televisions worked. Loads of Mega Drive games used Dithering, as an example, which is softened by the crappy RF cables everyone used to use, giving the illusion of a higher color palette when observed from a regular viewing distance.

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User is online   MusicallyInspired 

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#25

View PostHigh Treason, on 20 March 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

It brings about a good point. Recently a friend of mine really wanted to get RGB out of his Mega Drive, he then had a hard time understanding my explanation that it would actually look worse because the developers often relied on the "softer" RF / Composite signals and how CRT televisions worked. Loads of Mega Drive games used Dithering, as an example, which is softened by the crappy RF cables everyone used to use, giving the illusion of a higher color palette when observed from a regular viewing distance.


Also transparency. Sonic running behind a waterfall looked realistic. All you see are a mess of dithered pixels with a pure signal.

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User is online   icecoldduke 

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#26

View Postfuegerstef, on 20 March 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

Also the hardware of that time played an important part.

Yes, this example is extreme, but it brings the essence across.


View PostMusicallyInspired, on 20 March 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

Also transparency. Sonic running behind a waterfall looked realistic. All you see are a mess of dithered pixels with a pure signal.

Exactly! You got a lot of free dithering back in the day because of how crt's worked.

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User is offline   BloodGuy 

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#27

View Postfuegerstef, on 20 March 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

Also the hardware of that time played an important part.

Yes, this example is extreme, but it brings the essence across.

YOU SIR...are GENIUS. That was something I completely haven't seen until now. Thank you.
You just gave me a great idea for a cool game

The game gets rendered in the old 4:3 resolutions 320x240, 640x480 or800x600, and converted to a sprite as well that then covers the screen in oldschool 4:3 style
:D :D :D :D

have a look (click on pictures to enlarge)

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

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This post has been edited by BloodGuy: 20 March 2017 - 01:21 PM

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User is online   Jimmy 

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#28

The Genesis outputting RGB (which it does natively) on a Trinitron or PVM doesn't look that shitty. Even S-Video doesn't look that shitty. Composite is garbage. Get HD Retrovision cables at the very least.

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Jimmy: 20 March 2017 - 03:56 PM

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User is online   icecoldduke 

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#29

View PostBloodGuy, on 20 March 2017 - 12:25 PM, said:

...

I'm not sure what these screenshots show. In the first one it looks like your just bluring the screen :/.

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User is offline   BloodGuy 

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#30

View Posticecoldduke, on 20 March 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'm not sure what these screenshots show. In the first one it looks like your just bluring the screen :/.


I just tried to create a retro-look. The scene gets rendered in 640x480 resolution and stretched to the screen of your display. (in my case it was 1366x768 from my notebook).
In the 90s we all had old 4:3 screens and, just as fuegerstef explained, and you could not really see the single pixels like on todays displays.That's the effect i want to create with this. :D

I will prepare my demo for download then you can see what I mean =D

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